 qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
1 edit | Hello?? What if the converter boxes wind up costing 100 dollars? Why should people have to PAY so the Govt. can make money? I would consider this a form of taxation! | |
|
 | 
Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | Re: Hello?? The frequencies that analog TV is currently carried on is going to be sold (rented ?) by the gov't to entities for non-TV usage, hence the part of the story that mentions $10b from auction. In theory, it will cost taxpayers ZERO. | |
|
| | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Hello?? Get an HD antenna. | |
|
| | | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Hello??
$35.00 and they suck |
said by en102  :Get an HD antenna. HD antennas dont exist. they're just jazzy looking rabbit ears and DONT WORK any better than a dollar store set of rabbit ears.
And with digital TV's its all or nothing
got iffy signal? no snowy but watchable picture. forcing digital is bad for those with only indoor antennas.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|
| | | | 
Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN
| Re: Hello?? have you ever actually seen an hdtv signal OTA?
It just plays like a scratched dvd, or satelite during a light storm.
You'll see artifacts and some jumping, but it's not quite on or off like a light switch.
analog is such a waste of potential bandwidth. A signal that had some snow is FLAWLESS in digital. | |
|
| | | | | jgelow
join:2005-05-28
Moreno Valley, CA | Re: Hello?? It depends on how far away you are from the broadcaster. I set my mother-inlaw's tv with a decent ota ant and the picture was dead on. I was jealous since I couldn't get a signal like that unless I pay for it through sat or cable. | |
|
| | | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| said by Fluker :have you ever actually seen an hdtv signal OTA? It just plays like a scratched dvd, or satelite during a light storm. You'll see artifacts and some jumping, but it's not quite on or off like a light switch. analog is such a waste of potential bandwidth. A signal that had some snow is FLAWLESS in digital. Hmmm...My neighbor is a broadcast engineer and his testing makes him an advocate of Digital OTA vice digital over AT&T cable. But time will tell when we all have to shift.
And yes, digital is more efficient, but conversely is less fringe area friendly.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
|
| | | | | |
Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN
1 edit | Re: Hello?? I imagine that a comparison of quality over distance would look like this, with the top line representing digital vs analog on the bottom | |
|
| | | | | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: Hello?? said by Fluker :I imagine that a comparison of quality over distance would look like this, with the top line representing digital vs analog on the bottom You are almost right. Analog extends much further to the right past digital and the digital is a much sharper cutoff. Digital seems to be an all or nothing proposition and unlike FM and AM, if you miss any data you lose all of it.
We played around with the digital radios a year or two ago and found that they stay much clearer and seem to have more information carrying capability for a given bandwidth, however if you are working under marginal conditions, they stopped working where a FM radio could still make contact (granted we sometimes had to repeat several times it was so poor, but it at least worked).
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
|
| | | | | | | BrotherJPW
join:2003-11-27
Glen Ellyn, IL
| It is more like this with the top line representing digital vs analog on the bottom, which extends further right | |
|
| | | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by Fluker :have you ever actually seen an hdtv signal OTA? It just plays like a scratched dvd, or satelite during a light storm. You'll see artifacts and some jumping, but it's not quite on or off like a light switch. OTA HDTV is in the uhf band - you just need a good uhf antenna. I got one for about $25, it's small and worked like a champ.
with regard to quality, I never had problems with picture quality except during storms. In fact, OTA HD looks better than satellite or cable because it's not compressed as much. | |
|
| | | | | | scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
| Re: Hello?? Bad answer -
WHEN the analog is shutoff, the Digital TV range will be in the exact same frequencies as the current 2-51. Since 2-13 are VHF - that puts your statement inaccurate in the first place.
Another thing - due to some issues, channels 2-6 will generally be avoided by commercial TV broadcasters when possible. But channel 7-13 are quite desireable - lower power required than the UHF band, yet relatively free of the problems of 2-6. What channels your TV stations will be on after Feb 17, 2009 depends on several things, but there are sources for that out on the net. nasadude - you better do some checking.... | |
|
| | | | | | | 
bobb cobb
@sbcglobal.net | Re: Hello?? There are stations using vhf for their digital broadcast. WFAA (ABC)in Dallas is one of them. | |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | bi0tech
join:2003-06-19
| More misunderstanding.
You are correct that there is no HD antennas. Thats more of a marketing concept.
Rabbit ears are used for VHF reception. Digital stations in most areas of the US are broadcasting on UHF. For lowest cost this would be a 'bowtie' style antenna.
You will generally be able to pick up more analog signals on the edge of usable then digital. But the quality is usually so low I don't particularly agree that its better in anyway. Where as the digital signals that are received by a low cost antenna suited to the location (UHF/VHF/directional/multi-direction) are all good quality. So if really want an extra few channels that sort of resemble a picture with sound, then yes a digital upgrade is probably bad for you. | |
|
| | |
| DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| said by qworster :What if the converter boxes wind up costing 100 dollars? Why should people have to PAY so the Govt. can make money? I would consider this a form of taxation! Sounds like the government has been bought and paid for. Frickin politicians getting paid by lobbyists for the cable/TV/satellite industry. | |
|
| 
Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
| Then those people do not need them, nor a TV and can go back to spending time with their families, or reading a good book. Evil concept, but television is the devil.
--
I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction! | |
|
| elister
join:2006-07-17
Seattle, WA
| »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···82107049
80$ and you can get an FCC waiver to offset that by 100$. So that poor old man in Texas can get a set top box can make 20$ on the deal.
This device is basically for standard TVs, its not for HDTV sets. | |
|
| | plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY
clubs:
| Re: Hello?? said by elister :» www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···8210704980$ and you can get an FCC waiver to offset that by 100$. So that poor old man in Texas can get a set top box can make 20$ on the deal. This device is basically for standard TVs, its not for HDTV sets. and that is $80 right now...in two years when they are required they will probably cost a 1/4 of that | |
|
| | |
Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN | Re: Hello?? exactly.
DVD players can be had for $30 right now and they have somewhat complex moving parts.
I doubt it will be long before there's an inline box with a RF remote selling for $25 | |
|
| | | scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
1 edit | That box »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···82107049
isn't bad for the price - but the coupon boxes will be even more stripped that that. No component or digital audio out. And they SHOULD include a channel 3/4 builtin modulator for older TVs | |
|
| | | | 
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | Re: Hello?? If they're going to be that stripped, then there will have to be a modulator included. How else is the signal going to be displayed? | |
|
| | | | |
Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN | Re: Hello?? I was thinking that it won't be long before there is a little deal the size of an ipod that just goes behind the TV and has a non line of sight RF remote.
Who even needs to know it's there? | |
|
| | |
| dangarion
join:2003-05-26
Santa Ana, CA
| said by qworster :What if the converter boxes wind up costing 100 dollars? Why should people have to PAY so the Govt. can make money? I would consider this a form of taxation! Are you a moron? Why should the government have to give people money to buy a converter box to get TV signal? People should feel lucky they are getting that much. There is not law that states the government has to provide people subsidies to get television service. | |
|
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| sad indeed that truly is a sad sad photo.
The old adage, "if it isn't broken, then don't fix it" comes to mind.
I'm still a huge fan of analog, be it tv, audio, or whatever. I'm not looking forward to this shift, even though I do have cable. They will likely wish to switch too, if nothing else than for HDTV, and that means I'll have to get a box or three, likely a junky old moto unless I wish to pay for more. If/when that day comes, I'd rather bolt a dish on the roof and use cable for internet only. | |
|
| rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC | Re: sad indeed With the garbage on TV I have no intention of buying one. Goodbye TV | |
|
| |
uyggyubyugb
@shawcable.net
| Re: sad indeed said by rid0617 :With the garbage on TV I have no intention of buying one. Goodbye TV here here. | |
|
| | |
| | 
swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by rid0617 :With the garbage on TV I have no intention of buying one. Goodbye TV
Never mind the rubbish, DVDs will still play perfectly. | |
|
|
|
See 6 replies to this post |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Pathetic
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
|
|
See 6 replies to this post |
|
Pashune
Inhaling at 675 KB per sec.
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS | Well ..Well, I guess I'm ready, despite I have a DirecTV box that's close to 10 years old now.. | |
|
DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
1 edit | Healthiness Boost With thier health conditions most probably don't need to be watching TV anyhow.
This switch will be a boost to national health!
------
Plus tv is trash anyway. | |
|
|
HateTank
join:2004-03-07
Trinity, AL | ears quote:
"Perlin, 88, will be among nearly 500,000 in greater Houston, according to Nielsen, whose rabbit ears won't cut it anymore.
The rabbit ears are just fine.... | |
|
| dallasb
join:2007-07-02
Canton, OH | Re: ears Yup, keep the ears, replace the TV and get nice clean uncompressed HD  | |
|
| | |
| | | 
gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
1 edit | Re: ears From what Ive read, a standard uhf/vhf antenna is all thats needed for ota hd signals.
So the old mans rabbit ears will still work.
--
The will of the people is the best law. -Ulysses S Grant | |
|
| | |
81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA | I refuse to switch I refuse to switch and i hope a lot of people complain about the switch
--
i am not a lawyer but I do play one on internet | |
|
|
See 17 replies to this post |
|
jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
1 edit | All I need... ...Is a video capture card that accepts a cablecard - and that's only if Comcast stops transmitting analog. MythTv FTW. | |
|
| 
tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: All I need... Cablecards don't (and probably never will) work in linux. So much for MythTv 
Most people have more that 3 TVs in the house. I have 6, so I am going to have to juggle my 2 convert between the 6 then? WTF
If everything had gone by the original plan, I think the digital switch would have happened several years ago, so there really isn't anything we can do anymore. | |
|
| | |
| | |
tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: All I need... said by jjoshua :The cablecard will work with a capture card that works with linux. I think your mistaken. Shy of 3rd party drivers, it'll never work.
For what little information there is out there on PCs and cablecars, I found this: »www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1908511,00.asp
retail products may be available, but even those will be limited to systems running the new Microsoft O/S. The reason for this is the requirement by the content providers and cable TV companies for the robust content protection built into Vista. If linux drivers ever do get made, it won't surprise me if it would be a TOS violation with your cable company. | |
|
| | |
| | |
tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: All I need... The TiVo linux has a precompied binary supplied to them for that particular platform. Those CableCard drivers will only work for TiVo linux on TiVo hardware. The only chance we have for seeing drivers that will work on other linux platforms is if somebody reverse engineers those binaries and makes new ones. | |
|
Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | What you've all missed in the article... ...is that a lot of people don't even know it's coming. You can bitch about old people and stubborn asses all you want, but only a handful of people I know have heard anything about this. And articles like this comprise 90% of what I have read. | |
|
|
See 25 replies to this post |
|
Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN
| Some people still rent phones Some people hate change.
I've met people (Indiana has lots of "small world" types) who will get adamant about the superiority of carburetors, audio/video cassettes, typewriters or anything in the days before cell phones.
There will be a lot of pissing and moaning from these people before they even consider any of the possible advantages. | |
|
yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Oh well... It's called progress, you have to lose something to gain something and in this case the gain is worth it. | |
|
| dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Oh well... said by yabos :It's called progress, you have to lose something to gain something and in this case the gain is worth it. To you and, I'd wager, a very small minority of the US population. To the rest of us, it's little to no gain and not worth any loss. And this is coming from an owner of an HDTV and an HDTV capture card. (Not to mention several older, perfectly functional NTSC only TVs, dozens of VCRs, and 4 DVD recorders, 2 with HDD DVR). I've watched HDTV. I'm underwhelmed. It's nice when done right, but not worth giving up my existing equipment or having to spend extra $$$ to keep it usable. Let alone falling victim to the inevitable restrictions that will work their way into digital broadcast TV over the years (think broadcast flag for starters). | |
|
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | HDTV converters.. If there is HDTV usb conversion accessory for pc's for under $100, there's almost no doubt that converter boxes should get around that cheap come 2009, or shortly there after. | |
|
PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| What nobody realizes Nobody seems to realize that if you are currently watching analog OTA, NOTHING else is required to watch digital OTA, assuming your TV has an ATSC tuner. Digital OTA works just like analog: plug in an antenna and pick up a signal.
Last time I was at Walmart, I don't think they had a single TV for sale that DIDN'T have an ATSC tuner in it.
--
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequilla. -- Mitch Ratcliffe | |
|
| |
| |
PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| Re: What nobody realizes said by KoolMoe :It kinda sucks forcing everyone who doesn't have a digital-ready (ATSC) TV to have to buy a new one, or buy a tuner. I do agree, but nice HDTVs with ATSC tuners are getting cheaper all the time. And by 2009 when this goes into effect, they will be the same price as Tube TVs were in 2005.
So it does suck, but it won't suck nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
--
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequilla. -- Mitch Ratcliffe | |
|
scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
| For a bunch of otherwise sophisticated people ... Some of you are real Luddites about the upcoming Digital TV transition.
#1 - you don't have a choice. As of 3 AM local on Feb 17 2009, ALL of your current high power TV stations (analog) will be off the air. If they haven't built their digital facilities - then they have essentially gone out of business.
#2 - this only affects Over The Air broadcasts. DBS (already digital) and cable can do whatever they want over their medium. What I expect to happen - the major channel will probably continue to be available on cable - but it will be a down-converted /remodulated to NTSC (analog) for old style analog TVs.
#3 - the convertor box program - expected price of the DTV convertor boxes is expected to about $60 - $80 each. Eash household will be eligible for up to 2 convertor box coupons worth about $40 each to help defray the costs of conversion. Expect to see convertor boxes shortly after Jan 2008 (along with the coupons).
#4 - Public Service announcements (PSAs) - some stations are already doing these (my local CBS - WRAL in Raleigh NC is doing so, there maybe more). Starting in Febuary 2008, ALL stations will be required to broadcast 2 PSAs DAILY during prime TV watching, so everybody will know about it. Believe me - the stations are not totally happy about this - as this cuts into their ad revenue, as well as the fact that they are currently operating both analog AND digital transmission facilities.
#5 - TV reception of the digital signals - yes - it is basically all or nothing. Those of you with DBS will know what I'm talking about. On the plus side - if you have working OTA reception for both UHF and VHF - you're all set once you get your digital tuners.
#6 - TVs themselves - for the last couple years, manufacturers have been required to start putting in digital tuners in all TVs of a certain size - that has now progressed to ALL TVs.
If you want more info - start browsing at www.avsforum.com | |
|
|
See 16 replies to this post |
|
atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Lake Charles, LA
clubs:
| RE I do not know how they expect the average American to even know about it. Everyone I have asked does not have a clue that this "transition" is coming.
They need to work at getting the information out there more so the average American will be ready for the transition, other wise everyone will be hollaring and screaming when they can't get their daytime soaps, or watch American Idol. | |
|
| scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC | Re: RE Point #4 in my big post | |
|
| 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Direct TV and Dish Network......... are going to have a hay day. Sign on with us and you can still use your present TV. I also see great deals on HD systems from both of these outfits. 
--
Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
|
| 
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: RE said by atuarre :I do not know how they expect the average American to even know about it. Everyone I have asked does not have a clue that this "transition" is coming. They need to work at getting the information out there more so the average American will be ready for the transition, other wise everyone will be hollaring and screaming when they can't get their daytime soaps, or watch American Idol. I must be a nerd because I've known about this for literally a dozen years. | |
|
newz71
join:2002-01-01
Taylor, TX
| Will splitters still work? So, If I have 2 VCRs hooked up to one coax splitter, does this mean I will have to buy two of these little box things in order for each VCR to get a different station or can the splitter be plugged in to this little box?
--
No current signature, check back soon! | |
|
| scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC | Re: Will splitters still work? if you want to record 2 shows at the same time - 2 converter boxes | |
|
|
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| It's my understanding the "converters" will be like some of the simpler cable boxes. That is, they will take the digital OTA signal and then re-modulate it to go into your TV as an analog signal (you'll tune your TV to channel 3 or 4). They may possibly have RCA jacks for sound/video and possibly some higher end connections ($).
So, to answer your question, no, I don't think so, unless you are wanting to record the same channel on the 2 vcr's. (ex. you could split the signal OUT of the digital converter, but the converter itself would be tuned to, and converting a single digital channel.) I doubt that is what you want to do, as I cannot think of why you would want to record the same program on 2 vcr's simultaneously. | |
|
| | scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
| Re: Will splitters still work? Again - halfway correct.
"Coupon box" features -
ATSC tuner capable of decoding all 18 ATSC formats transmitted in ATSC on air channels 2-51 (some early ones may goto 69 for now)
outputs - 1 RF modulated on channel 3 or channel 4 just like a VCR
1 composite video output (yellow)
1 s-video output
1 set RCA analog line level audio outputs.
Notice that means NO HDTV (component / DVI / HDMI )/ digital audio (TOSLINK or digital coax) outputs . It also is saying NOTHING about QAM tuners for digital cable. It is, in short, a simple tuner to convert ATSC programming to NTSC for older NTSC TVs.
You CAN purchase ATSC tuners now, that are not quite so stripped. | |
|
MalibuMaxx
join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN
·Comcast
1 edit | What does all this mean? My question is... I have a 35-40 foot high outdoor ant. that has the signal amplified the hell out of and get a beautiful picture right now. Am I going to have to change my amp/equipment in order to keep the OTA signal. I have digital cable too so whats the diff.
Or is it just the NTSC tuners that I'm going to have dump for ATSC? | |
|
| scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC | Re: What does all this mean? Just the NTSC tuners that will not be usuable. For digital OTA - you will need an ATSC tuner.
Your current OTA rig will work fine for ATSC signals. | |
|
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
|  Don't completely write off DTV
I have a 7 element VHF/UHF outdoor antenna about 17' up. I really need a larger one, but I was impressed. | |
|
| |
| | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Don't completely write off DTV Well, here's a post to broaden your experience. I've seen DTV and even HDTV in all its "Glory". I'm underwhelmed. Yeah, it's cool, but not at the cost of replacing all the existing, perfectly functional NTSC only gear in use in this country today. Broadcast all the ATSC you want, just leave the NTSC signals on, at least for another decade until most of the majority of the NTSC only gear has worn out and failed. Stopping the manufacture of NTSC sets and adding the warning stickers to the equipment less than 2 years before the scheduled cutoff is insane, especially when most of this equipment has a useful life of more than 10 years if taken care of. I've got a 24 year old 19" Sylvania superset that still works like new - and has a better picture than a lot of sets on the market today, even some of the cheaper flat tube digital sets, SD or HD.
I just hope my cableco keeps providing the same analog feed for a long time to come (they've already removed PPV and a couple of premiums from the analog lineup, but since they require an STB anyway, that's no big deal except that their analog STBs were cheaper than the digital ones. The analogs are still in use where they were already deployed, but they will only deploy digital now.)
The whole thing stinks of corruption. They're taking RF spectrum that was given for public broadcast use away from the people and selling it off for private use, and all without asking the public's opinion on the matter. | |
|
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| money is more important then the consumer, heck the money side is what is driving this not progress into a fully digital age. if the FCC wasnt due to make billions off the sales of the RF segment they wouldnt be making an effort in the slightest.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
|
|
|
·
·
·
Umm ok...
·
