 
dsl_boy
join:2000-11-21 | Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet If DSLR is getting reports from "reliable authority" then clearly there is some problem with Northpoint's "quiet period". | |
|  | WebDev511
join:2001-03-03
Santa Clara, CA
|  Re: Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet
Considering they aren't a traded company anymore, there really isn't much more for them to be quiet about.
Reality is beginning to set in. You can't have excellent DSL service for a low cost. SOMEONE has to pay for it. So you can pay out the nose for a nice clean connection, or pay $50 a month for babybell oversubscribed PPoE DSL. | |
| | |
dsl_boy
join:2000-11-21
| Re: Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet I don't think you read the news article or my post very carefully. It is clear that a press release announcing the auction was made. What is remarkable is that someone is leaking the names of the bidders for Northpoint.
So, the question is, where is Justin getting his news about the specific bidders. (The SEC will want to know.)
Or, as Northpoint says:
The company has entered into a "quiet period" and will not disclose to the public specific information about bids, bidders or the amounts and value of the bids until the auction process is concluded and approved by the bankruptcy court.
[text was edited by author 2001-03-06 21:21:02] | |
| | | | DonLibesBad
join:1999-12-10
Potomac, MD
| Re: Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet dsl_boy wrote: So, the question is, where is Justin getting his news about the specific bidders. (The SEC will want to know.)
Read it again. All it says is that Rhythms and AT&T are POSSIBLE bidders. Shucks, I can tell you (with reliable authority) that Covad and Krispy Kreme Donuts are possible bidders. Now if if it had said that they ARE BIDDERS, that would've been significant. | |
| | | | 
lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| I think one way this issue can be reconciled is the fact that Northpoint is in a quiet period, and therefore will not "disclose to the public specific information about bids, bidders or the amounts and value of the bids until the auction process is concluded and approved by the bankruptcy court."
However, such "gag order" on Northpoint does not seem to prevent the bidder themselves from leaking, intentionally or negligently, to others their intention to bid at the auction later in the month.
And to take Don's angle, to state or imply one's intent to bid does not in-fact mean that a bid will actually be submitted on the day of the auction. Of course it is in Northpoint and its creditors' interests that such rumors imply more bidders than less, larger bids than smaller ones. Hence, there may be some attempt at manipulation of perception among the bidders as to who will bid at the auction and the overall level of interests for Northpoint assets.
In retrospect, I would be more concerned is such sources were leaking a non-interest in bidding rather than an interest in bidding for Northpoint's assets. To create an aura of interest in such assets serve Northpoint, its creditors, and lest we forget, the lawyers, well.
--
Regards,
lml | |
| | | | |
dsl_boy
join:2000-11-21
| Re: Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet said by lml2000:
However, such "gag order" on Northpoint does not seem to prevent the bidder themselves from leaking, intentionally or negligently, to others their intention to bid at the auction later in the month.
Perhaps. But I suspect that a company that wished to announce that would simply do so, rather than "leaking" the information.
I suspect Justin's info came from a source within Northpoint. | |
| | | | Anon | Oh, they're being traded. I've been picking up shares for a couppla weeks now, hoping that they'll be worth something next month. In two weeks, I'll either be a hero or a fool. (Right now, I'm just a fool.)
--
Never buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't even like. | |
| | | | Socoj2
join:2000-12-23
Cumming, GA
| Re: Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet The latter part of you statement about the fool may be true... When North point was pulled into Bankruptcy court... there shares where pulled from trading and delisted on the nasdaq...... So i really doubt that you have been ""picking up shares""
Next.... Krispy Kreme could verywell afford the dam thing if they wanted to.... Riding high on a new ipo that raised some 400 million in cash... and a high flying stock... up some 500% after opening at 20$ a share. Though i doubt they would try and pick up Northpoint... they would be in better finacial state then rhythymns... | |
| | | | | | Anon |  Re: Hmm, this quiet period is not so quiet
They are indeed trading and I also have picked up some cheap shares that could either be worth a lot in a few weeks or will make nice wallpaper for my cube, either way I see it as a reasonable risk.
»www.otcbb.com/asp/mp_quotes.asp?···oard.y=6
--
"I'm going to set it down on the strip"
| |
| Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
 ·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Likely speculation This news release seems to me being nothing short of speculation, if not false statements. I find it hard to believe that a company like Rhythms, a CLEC also in the brink of ceasing operations themselves, or a company like AT&T, a multi-tier, muti-service carrier with billions in debt, can actually participate in these auctions. That is, of course, if they can find themselves vigorously finding a buyer for the same assets they purchased for the intention of making money, instead of using the infrastructure to expand and improve their services. I'd love to have $8 billion at hand to bid for NorthPoint. If I owned NorthPoint, I'd bypass the ISP's and offer everything in one bundle myself. After all, doing that is what really gets you profits, and avoids dealing with ISP's screwing you out of payments in the first place. | |
| | 
chris
focus
Premium
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT | Re: Likely speculation 8 BILLION????
Oh my god. If that's what you think they're network is worth I have got a helluva deal on a bridge ... lemme just find the deed here .. . | |
| | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: Likely speculation LOL. Cute. | |
| | | | Socoj2
join:2000-12-23
Cumming, GA | Re: Likely speculation yea more likely to go around 400 million to 1.5 billion. depending on how heavy the bidding gets. | |
| | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: Likely speculation I do realize my cynicism in this post, and so is very typical of many in this forum to propagate either bad or good press about anyone, whether factual or not. | |
| | | | 
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| Re: Likely speculation I think you are mistaking a site news article with forum posts ...
FYI: stuff contributed to the home page is usually deleted before it sees the light of day if it is unsupported or unverifiable. For every story there, there are about 10 that are ignored.
In addition, stuff published to the home page without a "spotted by" line, does not even come from a news page submission. This did not come from a user submission.
If anyone submitted a story saying "I heard that AT&T is buying NorthPoint", it would not be published.
If anyone submitted a story saying "I spoke to deep throat, and they said X", it would not be published.
When not including a link, our journalistic due diligence is clearly and necessarily less than a national newspaper, but not down with an anyone can say anything forum. | |
| | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Likely speculation I'm not sure whether you get the corporate technique of dividing operations into divisions, whereas you would have the telecom/DSL wing, and the ISP wing. Good management would cut the red tape between the two, and the outcome of it all would be called a reputable and stable Internet company, with competitive services and pricing for all. | |
| | | | 
nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| New CLEC DSL Business Case for my $.02 MosDef, I guess you have all the answers...........let's cut the red tape? Don't you think all the CLEC's had similar plans? First of all, to make money in DSL (or any telecommunications service) you need your own last mile and backbone network, thousands of loyal PAYING customers, excellent management, excellent front line technicians, excellent tech support, etc. Now, does any current CLEC have these necessary items? If they did, they would be the most respected provider of the entire telecommunications industry............ | |
| | | | 
MENINBLK
Premium
join:2000-01-25
Yonkers, NY
clubs: | Re: Likely speculation If it were so simple, then why isn't MICROSOFT doing it ? | |
| | dbarc
join:2000-01-22
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by MosDef112:
I find it hard to believe that a company like Rhythms, a CLEC also in the brink of ceasing operations themselves, or a company like AT&T, a multi-tier, muti-service carrier with billions in debt, can actually participate in these auctions. ...stuff snipped... If I owned NorthPoint, I'd bypass the ISP's and offer everything in one bundle myself. After all, doing that is what really gets you profits, and avoids dealing with ISP's screwing you out of payments in the first place.
Actually, though ATT has massive debt, it also has tremendous cash flow.... and your last statement about bundling everything would actually seem a good fit for them. With their cash flow, the price is going to be 'cheap', and for a change they'll be buying something at the low point (vs. the 100B they paid for cable when their prices were sky high). They still like the idea of bundling..and while they may still have to 'rent' the last mile, they can put more than just one thing over that pipe. I can see them looking at one copper line, and supplying you with dsl data, voice, and their ISP service, which is good sized. I'm not sure they'd try the VODSL route, but they have all the 'pieces' needed for that as well, in those areas they don't have cable. (Of course, I'm sure you'd have ATT long distance service with that voice line).
The disclaimer:......certainly all speculative and not based on any press reports or releases. | |
| | mcaslan
join:2000-06-17
Baltimore, MD
| Come on, a CEO that has run an company into a stone wall at NASCAR speed. She is so stupid that the contracts originally signed by ISP's like PSN prohibit her from doing so. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if PSN has her by the balls and over the gun barrel in contractual ways.
Now selling and supporting direct would only be too smart. Especially from an ex Baby Beller, yea like I can by Verizon services from McDonalds or Radioshack. Control the distribution channel Liz Fetter and you will control your market. Allow the distribution channel to control your business and you are ruined. See Kodak. | |
| | Quantum7
join:2001-02-23
Orlando, FL
| I believe Northpoint as a company is currently valued at around (yes) $1 billion dollars. Their market valuation is $600 million dollars (assets) and they are carrying a debt burden estimated at just over $400 million dollars (liability). I may have transposed these numbers, but they are accurate according to most estimates.
AT & T has plenty of cash to buy Northpoint, since they just sold several billion dollars worth of residential cable assets in order to stay within the FCC 30% cap. They (as a company) are doing fairly well despite the poor showing of the company's common stock. Northpoint would provide a good product fit and would (IMO) round out the offerings of AT & T Broadband.
Rhythms is not (IMO) a player in this auction, since they are themselves barely hanging on for dear life in the DSL services marketplace.
Microsoft would be a very good bet to purchase Northpoint outright since they currently have no DSL Market penetration and currently have a positive market capitalization of $27 billion to use any way they see fit. Usually Microsoft enters a market by buying a major player in a market segment they want to become a major player in. Buying NP would achieve major player status in the DSL arena virtually overnight for Microsoft. Couple this with the fact that M$ already has a current strategic partnership with Northpoint (worth a $30 million dollar M$ investment) to offer DSL Services marketed by MSN and riding NP lines.
I personally don't mind if AT & T or Microsoft buys Northpoint, but Microsoft would probably run Northpoint better and charge less for services since they are more consumer oriented. AT & T would probably go more for business lines if they purchased Northpoint since they would not want to undermine their ATM and Frame Relay T-1 business services by offering cheap SDSL to consumers. Also anyone who has been an AT & T cable modem customer can probably tell you that the A T & T cable modem system is managed poorly, overloaded and in need of an overhaul, so you can probably imagine how A T & T would handle a national network of DSL equipped central offices, customer service and the like. On the other hand, A T & T has (or hopefully can find) the talent to bring it all together if they set their mind to it.
I believe Northpoint will continue on pretty much intact after the auction, with a new and clear perspective and the backing of a large, stable, cash heavy parent company as a cushion. They can then reopen the 500 plus central offices they closed due to belt tightening and continue to deploy DSL services at competitive prices, and (hopefully) help to crush the Baby Bells into submission, at least as far as DSL service is concerned. I dislike monopolies, and love competition and a renewed Northpoint keeps competition alive and also makes the availability and delivery of DSL at different service levels, speeds and prices a better bet in the future.
[text was edited by author 2001-03-07 04:50:50] | |
| | | 
Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost
|  Re: Northpoint Buyers and the Future
said by Quantum7:
Microsoft would be a very good bet to purchase Northpoint outright since they currently have no DSL Market penetration and currently have a positive market capitalization of $27 billion to use any way they see fit.
I just thought I would mention that Microsoft DOES have DSL market penetration. It is called MSN High Speed, which is DSL service. In case you didn't know, MSN is the Microsoft Network. | |
| |
lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by MosDef112:
This news release seems to me being nothing short of speculation, if not false statements.
Those are pretty harsh words. Sure, unless you hear it from the horse's mouth, most comments made to reporters about something to occur in the future may certainly be considered speculative. But to immediately claim such statements as false is uncalled for at this time because their true or falsehood is indeterminate at this time. In short, its speculation about who may or may not bid at the auction. The statement may very well be true regardless whether or not these companies actually bid at the auction because the truth of the matter goes to present intent, not future conduct. said by MosDef112:
That is, of course, if they can find themselves vigorously finding a buyer for the same assets they purchased for the intention of making money, instead of using the infrastructure to expand and improve their services.
This hypothetical I discussed with DSL Boy just a few days ago. While I considered it unlikely, it is possible, and IMHO, any expressed interest in the assets would be made by the telco's investment bankers on behalf of their client, and probably only in the event a buyer would be lined up before the bid. The only exception I can possibly see here is IF there are particular assets that T, for example, may want, but realizes that the only way its going to obtain them is by purchasing other assets it does not need or want, but may be of value in the hands of another carrier. Here, my point is that UNLESS T has an interest is at least some of NPNT's assets I don't seem them playing the straw man for the investment bank. Something has got to be in the deal OPERATIONALLY for T. I just don't think T is gonna play this game where such arbitrage to be realized is typically devoured by the IB. JMO.
--
Regards,
lml | |
| 
Iforgot0
join:2001-01-17
Eastlake, OH
| Thats good.The biger the bider the cheaper the due | |
| | | Anon |  Re: Thats good.The biger the bider the cheaper the due
| |
| | 
Denjin
join:2001-01-18
Schaumburg, IL
| I have AT&T DSL at work now. We've never had a single problem with it...
@home != AT&T Still, AT&T DSL right now is 100% Covad, so it seems a tad odd to buy NP I think. Who knows...
Chris
said by Iforgot:
I don't think AT@T will buy them, because they are far behind knowing anything about DSL. In my opinion I think that Ameritech might try to buy or even Microsoft since they have lots of money already invested in them. If it is Microsoft look for the add-on for the X-Box.
--
MediaOne/@Home is the Devil. | |
| | | | |
nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY | Re: Thats good.The biger the bider the cheaper the due | |
| | 
AllAlone0
join:2000-10-30
Oakville, ON
clubs:
| AT&T knows a lot about DSL... they run a business class DSL here, running 2.2mbps. They have it backed by multiple OC-3s... its stable as a rock, always up...
If they own a CLEC... they might also be able to get their cable phones to work....
--
My New improved Roller Coaster Tycoon SS page | |
| |
lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| AT&T (T) will want to operate as a CLEC in areas that extend beyond its cable plant, and in areas where it does not intend to necessarily deploy its fixed wireless service.
In light of this, I think T has already reviewed where and what markets (COs) Northpoint maintains leased space and equipment and assess how those locations might fit into their overall broadband strategy. Weighed against this is all the other crap that they might have to purchase in order to obtain the assets they want. I think they will weigh the value of what they want against the likelihood that they could profit by immediately flipping what they don't want to another carrier.
They may have already made the decision to pass. I dunno. No one does until the bids are opened. The things weighing in T's favor is (1) they have the cash to lay on the table, and (2) that have a great need to establish a significant presence in the CO to begin to provide local carrier service to feed their dying long distance business.
Should be interesting. | |
| | Anon |  hollywood
| |
| |
chris
focus
Premium
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT | Re: hollywood Let's see who buys them .... and if it is a complete sale or piece by piece. | |
| | | 
LzyDrgnz
join:2001-02-22
Garden Grove, CA | Re: hollywood I'm really surprised that Microsoft didn't attempt to buy Northpoint... since Microsoft's DSL service uses Northpoint. But then again they would be competing with AOL Time Warner and AOL Time Warner is going to cry about it... | |
| | | 
Chowder
Anteaters Rule
Premium
join:2000-11-07
Dagobah
clubs: | I dunno, but I too am getting anxious about the sale. I just got my IDSL through Northpoint and Megapath 4 months ago. I suppose I'll just preay for no interruption in service... | |
| mcaslan
join:2000-06-17
Baltimore, MD
| Gag - puke - they must have fired Duanne
Gag - puke - they must have fired Duanne in Customer Service since he so 'well legally we don't have any obligation to...'
And their sales force was so good...weep..weep...weep
And I am sure that the buyer will want Liz to stay on and run the company further into the ground. Her strategy and efforts have resulted in such a fine organization.
Come on, a CEO that has run an company into a stone wall at NASCAR speed. She is so stupid that the contracts originally signed by ISP's like PSN prohibit her from doing so. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if PSN has her by the balls and over the gun barrel in contractual ways.
Now selling and supporting direct would only be too smart. Especially from an ex Baby Beller, yea like I can by Verizon services from McDonalds or Radioshack. Control the distribution channel Liz Fetter and you will control your market. Allow the distribution channel to control your business and you are ruined. See Kodak.
[text was edited by author 2001-03-07 00:33:33] | |
| 
jseymour8
join:2000-07-29
| Neither Seems Likely To Me
Rhythms is presently in consolidation mode. They're pulling out of markets that have been, for one reason or another, unprofitable for them. When I asked one person there about participation in SBC's "RT" program, he expressed the opinion that was unlikely--at least in the near term. While acquisition of competitor NorthPoint may seem to make sense--and if Rhythms was in an expansion mode and the capital funding was available it probably would--I don't see them buying duplicate facilities at this time.
AT&T is harder to judge. A couple of things do seem apparent: AT&T over-acquired over the last few years. And their long-distance profit-center is no longer much of a profit-center. In fact: all three of the "big three" long-distance providers are making noises about either getting out of the business or spinning those businesses off. AT&T can't help but notice that DSL is equally as cut-throat as the LD market. (Not-to-mention they'd not even be playing in their own back yard!) Coupled with their recent moves to slim-down, it seems unlikely to me they'd be seriously entertaining plans to acquire NP.
On a personal note: if I had my druthers, I far sooner Rhythms acquire my DSL circuit than AT&T.
--
Jim Seymour & Karel the Computer Cat
Agents Provocateurs Extraordinaire
irc://irc.dal.net/#dslreports | |
| 
Morphezz
@199.179.x.x
| Who are the REAL players in this GAME? Who needs what?
Is ATT trying to play a global game?
Who are they playing with now?
What do they need to play with their toys?
What don't they have?
What about Microsoft?
What do they want/need?
Who is selling? Who is buying? Who wants to buy?
There are more players you know.
The games are not over yet? | |
| | | |
|
