  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | HAH!
These guys must be smoking some oregano-laced crack. Install 500,000 DSL (my own estimate from looking at their graphs) lines in 3 weeks? I don't think that is gonna happen. -- DRM == Doesn't Read MP3s | |
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 |   Minister
join:2002-01-02 Fleeting | Re: HAH! Which graph are YOU looking at? | |
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 |  vztech4u
join:2002-12-06 Ventura, CA | R U Serious? Read this again! | |
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 |  |   literate
@205.173.x.x | Re: HAH! uh, my numbers say 235,000 lines in three months. learn to read a chart. | |
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 |  |   chart reader
@205.173.x.x | Try 235,000 lines in three months assuming no growth in s. Korea. | |
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  cyberthugin
join:2002-03-12 Kew Gardens, NY
| someone smoking something I agree, this editor must be smoking some plaster fake crack. I have had dsl installed and it sucks, the line is not even reliable to begin with and you never get what you paid for, still telecom's are still pushing this technology becuase they haven't solved the last mile or just haven't implemented a better technology or solution to solve this. The cable companies are kicking these telecom's asses, becuase they know that dsl sucks. How can this editor make assumptions about dsl, to me it seems that the bulk of these people must be aol users(not web savvy). | |
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 |   Augustus III If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25 Gainesville, GA
| oh... said by cyberthugin : to me it seems that the bulk of these people must be aol users(not web savvy). I have had dsl installed and it sucks, the line is not even reliable to begin with and you never get what you paid for
well to make your day efnet just testlinked irc.aol.com enough said....
get real and stop bashing the technology because you don't like it. just because "So I did a wise decision and got a T1 installed, now I dont have to deal with restrictions from these capout providers" doesn't mean everybody has it.
»oop is good to some extent | |
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 |  |   burgermeister All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23 Utica, MI | Re: oh...
Ha! Almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw that. | |
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 |   burgermeister All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23 Utica, MI
| Re: someone smoking something Your bad experience with DSL, while it may mean a lot to you, does no mean everyone feels the same. I've had Cable and dumped it for DSL because I didn't like the service. Doesn't have much to do with the actual technology the service employs, but it has more to do with the moron companies employing it. Actually, I wouldn't really consider any Cable *or* telco on the 'cutting edge'.
You don't like DSL, but you don't speak for others. I love it. | |
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 |  nogueras4
join:2002-12-11 Torrance, CA | First learn to spell its (because). Now as for DSL I have it for 2 years from Pacbell and I have no problems at all.Maybe it's your computer or just simply USER ERROR!!!!! | |
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  RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111
edited
| what else is new
Who finds this junk! How many people lives in CHINA?!?!?!? Even if 1/20 of the population it will leading the world!:o What a stupid piece of writing and what`s worse the guy who brought this to our attention! [text was edited by author 2002-12-12 12:38:35] | |
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 |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: what else is new Uh...thanks? | |
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 |  |   St0ney
join:2001-02-25 uranus | Re: what else is new YEa why is it eevery month or so a report comes out on DSLR with a report on how China will lead in broadband??? same thing every month or so. we get the picture. | |
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 |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: what else is new These are new stats showing new broadband global rankings....it's a new story....and in turn it's being posted here....ironically, on a broadband website.
If it's not your cup of tea, either submit a broadband story you think is more interesting, or don't read it I guess.... | |
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 |  |  |  |   RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111 | Re: what else is new
Stats are ok, but there are alot more data that can be shared coming out of asia. I guess you guys are not getting the real meaty of topics like you should........ | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111 | Re: what else is new
I am not trying to be mean, but I will post info if it does appear meaty:) | |
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 |  |  |  |   weebies$ What The Heck?
join:2002-10-26 Wayne, MI
| I liked the story. Some times figures can put things in perspective - like how South Korea is the overall leader while being a much smaller country than the US and China. What the figures don't show is the difference in broadband data rates in different countries - it just lumps everything together. Here in the US I believe we have much lower DSL data rates compared to South Korea, Japan, and places in Europe. I'd like to see an article detailing the differences and the reasons behind this. -- innovation is made of the dreams of those who wonder what if and don't rely on what has been | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111
| Re: what else is new said by weebies$ : I liked the story. Some times figures can put things in perspective - like how South Korea is the overall leader while being a much smaller country than the US and China. What the figures don't show is the difference in broadband data rates in different countries - it just lumps everything together. Here in the US I believe we have much lower DSL data rates compared to South Korea, Japan, and places in Europe. I'd like to see an article detailing the differences and the reasons behind this.
Thats funny how in the world can you say its cheaper in the usa? Where we are paying from 2200 yen or $17.00 to 4200 or $36.00 for 12MBPS speed?!??!?!? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   weebies$ What The Heck?
join:2002-10-26 Wayne, MI
| Re: what else is new I think you misunderstood what I meant. Our DSL data rates are much less than yours while our prices for that service are much more. Example someone here in the US can pay $50/mo. (or more) for 1500Kps download with 128Kps upload. Here in the US we pay much more for a much inferior product. I was trying to point out that what passes for DSL broadband here would be considered substandard in other countries - something the statistics do not take into account. It is like comparing apples to oranges - they are both fruits but definitely not the same thing.
Unfortunately we have almost no fiber deployment in the US (or at least useful fiber deployment - there's is a lot of fiber in the ground that is not connected). Here's my look at fiber deployment in the US.
»News Flash: New Company to Provide FTTH to Saturn
Thanks for the reply. Hope I explained myself better in this post - I don't think we disagree on cost in the US versus Japan. I think I'll go out to my backyard, dig some holes, bury some cables, and see how rich I get.:D -- innovation is made of the dreams of those who wonder what if and don't rely on what has been | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111 | Re: what else is new I see you point, prices and the amount of service you get from such do very. | |
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  Sealink Premium join:2002-08-09 U.S. | Cheaper The DSL lines must be cheaper over there then compared to here because your typical Chinese individual does not make that much money. | |
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 |   RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111 | Re: Cheaper if you compare the rates yes, but in japan we pay around $30.00 for 12MBPS speeds. | |
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 |  |   burgermeister All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23 Utica, MI
| Re: Cheaper said by RiceSan : if you compare the rates yes, but in japan we pay around $30.00 for 12MBPS speeds.
Yeah, it's pretty easy to distribute high speed access when you only have 2 meters of wire between customers!
Apples and oranges... | |
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 |  |  |  ConCashPro Concash Customer
join:2000-10-23 Little Rock, AR
| Re: Cheaper excuses, excuses. Look at how much fiber is in the ground in the US, much more than any other country and then you'll see how sorry a state the US is in broadband deployment. And don't tell me its about the last mile bs, the largest most dense cities in the US STILL don't have fiber to the home. You'd think apartments would be the first places to be wired..
NOT IN THE GOOD OL' US OF A! | |
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 |  |  |  |   burgermeister All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23 Utica, MI
| Re: Cheaper What kind of a fool would pay to have fiber run to their home????? You can get plenty of data through copper.
Talk about BS, eh? Why in God's name do you feel you need fiber run to your home???? Who's going to pay for that??
Not in the good 'ole US of A because it makes NO BUSINESS SENSE! I happy with what I have and the bandwidth I get over the distance I am from the CO. Don't be TEARING UP MY FRONT YARD because you think you need fiber run to every house.
What a waste of money! | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  fullback
join:2002-01-24 japan
| Re: Fiber Hehe... fiber costs me the equivalent of about $45/mo. It's smaller than a telephone line and pulled through the same telco conduit.
So, tell me again why it costs more to run fiber than it does to run a copper wire? Except for the material cost (and there is a huge glut of fiber available), the labor cost is the same. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Fiber said by fullback : the labor cost is the same.
Not really. Fiber has to be handled very delicately, you can't just pull it through any crack in your wall and expect it to work. Heck, you can't even touch the bare fiber strands without fubaring it. And as far as a so called "fiber glut" is concerned, sure there's plenty of fiber in the ground, but saying that this should make the costs of fiber lower implies that you can just pull this unused fiber out of the ground and reuse it someplace else. It doesn't work this way.
However, if you want fiber optic cable you can actually use, that is going to cost you. The fact that there is a ton of unused fiber out there already doesn't change the fact that right now, the stuff is still costly to buy.
And I have to agree with the original poster. It is technologically possible (though many providers don't do this yet) to pull 10 Mbps or so over coaxial (cable TV) and or phone lines using DSL. Heck, even Cat-5e ethernet cable can support 1Gbps. Unless you're running a NOC out of your house, how much bandwidth do you really need?
Lastly, the phone company can and will run fiber to your home if you like, just order enough phone lines and they will have to  -- DRM == Doesn't Read MP3s | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  fullback
join:2002-01-24 japan
| Re: Fiber You may only be familiar with fiber used in the U.S. The crux of these articles is that the images Americans have that the rest of the world is technically incompetent is wrong. It also isn't brain surgery to insure that bend angles are are not too acute. It really is simple.
I didn't say anything about reusing in-ground fiber because that makes no sense at all. Fiber supply far exceeds demand and the price and installation 'difficulties' are artificial, simplistic, unsupported claims by U.S. providers. U.S. consumers are being fed a huge, heaping, steaming heap of horse manure - and buying it.
Raw fiber is cheap, ONU's are cheap and installation is being done every day by Chinese peasants with 30 minutes of training. I think a few people in the U.S. could handle this technically sophisticated procedure? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
| said by fullback : Raw fiber is cheap, ONU's are cheap and installation is being done every day by Chinese peasants with 30 minutes of training. I think a few people in the U.S. could handle this technically sophisticated procedure?
I personally don't believe anything that comes out of the Chinese propaganda machine. This oppressive totalitarian regime, like any other, will say and do anything to make itself look good. China may indeed be doing the things they claim, but its very easy to buy things when you can print your own money. -- DRM == Doesn't Read MP3s | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   burgermeister All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23 Utica, MI
| I never implied that the rest of the world is technically incompetent.
Raw fiber is cheap, but so is raw steel. The fact that the steel is cheap doesn't mean the finished products (cars, washers, etc) are cheap. The price of the raw material is not relevant when you consider the skilled labor required to run and terminate the fiber.
Of all the places I have worked in the past, the most fiber I've seen was phone closet to phone closet. Each piece of fiber was serving in the area of 100 network customers. From the closet to the desktop it's always been 10/100mbps copper. The speed has always been good.
So tell me why as a home user -- that you'd need fiber run to your house? Please justify the expense.
Also, you said that Americans have images of the rest of the world which suggest incompetence; the *only* messages I ever see are of Americans and others implying that the US is incompetent with respect to broadband. That's just wrong. People are comparing apples and oranges. They see a few isolated examples of slick high-speed access and think everyone should have it run to their house with little or no consideration given to the cost or the obstacles. Think about it, someone has 12mbps run to their house, where do they go??? If want to download, etc, youre only going to get as much data as the source can send. Also, an apartment building wired with fiber dont count because they may have a T1 to the Internet for all you know.
I can't imagine any company running fiber to houses when:
1) They'll lose money on the investment (as has been stated with the long-haul fiber glut)
2) 99.9999999999999999% of homes would never have a use for it.
As for the government: I see no reason for the government to invest in fiber infrastructure to the home because I don't care to finance a home users cheap, ultra-fast connection so they can play multi-player games. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  See 26 replies to this post |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   RiceSan
join:2002-01-15 111
edited
| Fullbacks commets
Don`t pay any mind to "fullback" he lives protective area in Japan. He knows very little about how we real people living in Japan how life and cost work. he gets payed in US $ not yen... So he really does not know the value of a yen! But your comment are correct. atleast some people understand. [text was edited by author 2002-12-13 01:50:03] | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  fullback
join:2002-01-24 japan
| Re: Fullbacks commets Why would you say that RiceSan? I've lived in Japan for over 10 years and my income has always been in yen. I'm not in the US military, with an embassy or working for a foreign company in Japan. I own a company here.
YahooBB 12Mbps is under 2,000 yen/mo. NTT B-flets 100Mbps fiber costs 5,000 yen/mo.+ ISP(2,980 yen/mo.) My total cost is 7,980 yen/mo. I'll spend 8,000 yen tonight on dinner and drinks! Akemashita omedeto gozaimasu... | |
|
 DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| China..... It's very easy to see how they are going to lead the world in broadband.
Chinese Broadband Deployment Leader: "You will deploy 500,000 lines in 3 weeks IMMEDIATELY! The People's Government demands it for the people."
Technician: "But sir, we can't install them that fast."
Chinese Broadband Deployment Leader: "Those who fail to perform as expected will be executed as enemies of the state!" *line of Chinese soldiers step forward, holding rifles menacingly*
Technician: "We OBEY, leader!"
It's amazing what type of work you can get out of people when you're a totalitarian state and can kill those who disagree with you. | |
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 |  |  |   Kaltes Premium join:2002-12-04 Los Angeles, CA
| Re: China..... I believe that he was taken to the police station and I believe that his camera was confiscated, and I believe that someone questioned him about what he was doing.
I do not believe that the person questioning used the epithets reported.
He was brought in for questioning, and not arrested or charged with any crime, which explains why he was let out. Police have a right to be suspicious when a person photographs their security measures. The public at large does not have some right to engage in this activity, people can photograph public rooftops when the snipers are not present.
I think the basic story is accurate, but I also think that the individual involved 'spiced it up' becasue he was angry over what happened. The photographer also failed to discuss details about his OWN conduct that, if brought to light, could explain any harshness in how he was treated. The threat about the patriot act might have been made, but if it was it was more than likely made to scare mike, not as a credible threat.
He WAS allowed to contact a lawyer, I was blown away by the fact that he choose not to, the news story could have waited.
If you act defiant to police, do not expect them to respond with kindness and hospitality: they are humans too. There are many ways that police can LEGALLY make your life difficult.
I'm more concerned that it took so long for someone to approach him and that he was able to take so many photos before being confronted. | |
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 |  |   weebies$ What The Heck?
join:2002-10-26 Wayne, MI
| What a sad day for America.
Here is a good link to a congressman who warned of such police state activity. »www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul41.html -- innovation is made of the dreams of those who wonder what if and don't rely on what has been | |
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 EMTspud
join:2001-02-02 Portland, OR | It's BS I searched all over the mainstream media outlets for information on this dude getting arrested.
couldn't find anything. It is a hoax.
--spud--:) | |
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 |   weebies$ What The Heck?
join:2002-10-26 Wayne, MI
| Re: It's BS I hope so for all of us. It is being covered by a lot of small media outlets - did a google search on it and there were a lot of hits. But I didn't see any large media that were following this story. -- innovation is made of the dreams of those who wonder what if and don't rely on what has been | |
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 |   91439306 15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16 New Milford, CT
| Premise: The police have the power to cover up their actions.
Evidence: Man claims to have been arrested and his camera confiscated.
Question: If only the film was evidence, why didn't they return his camera? Unless the police are in the forfeiture business for profit?
Hypothesis: The police may have arrested this guy, realized they could not make any charges stick, but decided that the arrest would be an embarrassment or a violation of law, and so decided to deny the arrest.
It happens all the time in other countries. -- Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
Business sites at: '»www.dv-clips.com '»www.mwcomms.com '»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com - | |
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  JE Can I Taste It? Mmmm Premium join:2000-12-15 Brooklyn, NY
| PUNCTUATION All of this shit is BS! Americans can't even use proper punctuation marks in their posts, so that makes it VERY hard for me to constantly understand WTF you droids are talking about!
I'll tell u one thing - Americans sure lack the basic English skills, while other countries are tops in our own skills.
JE -- Like R&B and Hip Hop? Well, check out my station on ShoutCast... It's called: Urban Hitz Radio! | |
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 |   burgermeister All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23 Utica, MI
| Re: PUNCTUATION said by JE : All of this shit is BS! Americans can't even use proper punctuation marks in their posts, so that makes it VERY hard for me to constantly understand WTF you droids are talking about!
I'll tell u one thing - Americans sure lack the basic English skills, while other countries are tops in our own skills.
JE
U is not a word. You should have used a colon between 'thing' and 'Americans'. | |
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 |   JE Can I Taste It? Mmmm Premium join:2000-12-15 Brooklyn, NY | OH REALLY?
I think U R wrong about the colon buddy! I don't think I posted about words, I think I posted about the TITLE! -- Like R&B and Hip Hop? Well, check out my station on ShoutCast... It's called: Urban Hitz Radio! | |
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 |  |  ancarte
join:2002-11-28 Milton, ON | Re: PUNCTUATION You guys need to chill out, man. Getting a little petty, no? | |
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