AT&T disappointment letter (update) A website was setup over the weekend by three NorthPoint customers who believe AT&T did not handle the asset purchase of NorthPoint with sufficient sensitivity for the existing subscriber base. The website has a form allowing you to automatically construct and send a letter to the AT&T President, and cc a number of politicians and lawmakers in Washington. update: NorthPoint general counsel just informed the operators of the website that it is "doing more harm than good". AT&T is putting pressure on NorthPoint to have it eliminated. If the site does not exist at the time of reading this, you can guess what happened. update: Since the website got frightened into early retirement, here are the email addresses it was originally designed to email to, and the original text. Feel free to use as much or as little of this text to express your view on the situation. As long as NorthPoint service during transition is doubtful, things cannot get worse for subscribers than they already are. RM-execappeals@ems.att.com attir@att.com mpowell@fcc.gov hfurchtg@fcc.gov gtristan@fcc.gov senatorlott@lott.senate.gov john_mccain@mccain.senate.gov conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov la03@legislators.com ma07@legislators.com the text read: To the attention of: Mr. C. Michael Armstrong Chairman & CEO AT&T Dear Mr. Armstrong: I am writing to express my anger and disappointment at AT&T's recent actions in the NorthPoint Communications asset purchase. As a result of it's shortsightedness, AT&T has effectively stranded 110,000 broadband customers leaving them scrambling to secure uninterrupted high-speed Internet service. Thousands of NorthPoint residential and business subscribers rely on their broadband service for the success of their lives, careers and businesses. While AT&T may be making the best business decision in not acquiring the NorthPoint customer base, the abruptness of service termination and lack of concern by AT&T for NorthPoint customers is inexcusable. At the least, AT&T could have included, in the arrangement, interim funding so that NorthPoint customers would have a longer window to migrate to a different service provider. The 100,000+ NorthPoint subscribers are also current and prospective customers in AT&Ts other lines of business such as long distance, cable, local service, Internet, wireless, etc.). However, after the lack of concern displayed by AT&T towards NorthPoint customers, I can assure you that a good portion of those customers are currently terminating their other services with AT&T, will never return to the company and will encourage friends, family and colleagues to steer clear of the company, as well. I sincerely hope AT&T reconsiders its actions in this matter and works to reach an amicable agreement with NorthPoint to provide an easy migration period for NorthPoint subscribers. AT&T routinely promotes itself as a leading company in deploying broadband services across the nation and in closing the 'Digital Divide'. However, in this instance, AT&T has effectively severed the broadband service of 100,000+ Americans. As a matter of public concern, I have copied, on this e-mail, the following public officials: FCC Chairman Michael Powell FCC Commissioner Harold Furchtgott-Roth FCC Commissioner Susan Ness FCC Commissioner Gloria Tristani Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John McCain Senate Telecom Subcommittee Chairman Burns House Commerce Committee Chairman Billy Tauzin Representative Edward Markey
|
 | | Don't Email This is all well and good, but remember this: DO NOT EMAIL THIS LETTER.
You'll remember the recent stories on Slashdot and MSNBC about congress not reading their email, no listening to gripes submitted via email, and general ignoring anything that is not sent via US SNAIL MAIL.
So if you want your voice to be heard -- and you want the letter to read instead of relegated to the SPAM pile. Under no circumstances should you willy-nilly fire off an email with the hopes of "inundating" your congressperson with email.
Remember, they get SPAM, too, in those email account and -- 99.9% of the time -- do not read their email.
So take the time, do it right: print it out nicely, find the address of your congressperson, affix a 34 cent stamp, and drop the damn letters in the mail box. (That's the blue metal thing on various street corners and in front of the 'post office' for you folks who think the internet is the be-all and end-all of 'communication.') | |
|  | Anon
| . .
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 14:58:07] | |
| |  justinAustralian
join:1999-05-28
New York, NY
kudos:7
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Console/Handheld g..
Home/Office setup ..
Photos of Broadban..
| Re: Don't Email That isnt true.. email based complaints DO count, and people ARE allocated to deal with them. You might not get a reply, but it does work.
Nevertheless, snail mail is as you say probably more effective, but quantity is better than quality in this case and many people don't know how to write a regular letter anymore. | |
| | |
| Re: Don't Email I'm sorry. You're wrong. Email letters -- replies, complaints, whatever -- do not count. Our wonderful politicians do not have the staff or the stamina to deal with a deluge of eletronic letters.
Don't like it? Write your congressperson and demand that they read their email, as well as their snail-mail. Remind them that email *DOES* count and that you are a voter.
But right now -- and especially for this problem -- your local/state/federal politico cannot deal with email. They hate it. They don't read it. And they don't allocate the peoplepower to make an effort to read it. It makes no difference. It's like standing on a hill and facing a vast prairie and complaining that you're cold. The only voice you'll hear will be your own. And you'll still be cold, even after you stand and throw a fit.
I stand by my original assertion. If you want to make a difference, DO NOT EMAIL.
Period.
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 17:10:01] | |
| | | | | | Re: Don't Email I can't speak to your experience, but within the last few months I have written email to my city council and state legislators and gotten personal replies within a few hours or days. I wrote an email to the governor and got a semi-personal reply from an assistant a couple weeks later. Last year I wrote an email to my Congressman and got a form email reply. If you're a voter, they don't want to alienate you. ATT will probably not read your email thoroughly, but if you have a clear subject line and you send it from your personal account, there is a good chance they will add your email to a running total of emails complaining about the situation. However, I agree that snail mail would probably have a lot more impact. | |
|
| sashka
join:2000-02-01
Butler, NJ | I just can't understand: what can do northpoint, if AT&T brought equipment? How it can work? | |
| | | | A telco, screwing someone? I cannot believe it. I am speechless. Makes you wonder why anyone buys telco DSL....... | |
| |  DeeCPremium
join:2000-09-01
the world
kudos:1 | I sent my email....Hope AT & T BURNS at the stake. Any little will help.
Dee | |
| |  abe
@rcsntx.swbell.ne | You people are like a pack of wild dogs! If you can't blame Northpoint, you are now blaming the outfit that is buying their infustructure. If I where Ma Bell, I wouldn't want you people either. I hear Covad is still running, go give them a shot. I have been defending DSL providers, namely the RBOC's in these forums for almost a year now. DSL is so new, there will be glitches, it is not fool proof. The only thing fool about the technology are the fools that think they should have it yesterday, with no glitches. In time, in time. | |
| | | | | Reply to Abe: Don't Email wuf wuf
The fact of the matter is, we are paying for broadband service and that is exactly what we expected. Don't whine to us about your technical hurdles, I could care less. If you don't have the service, don't offer it. Because in the end, you will fold. Case and point.
You must be a AT&T employee !!!
Lastly, everyone will have to make their own decision as to how they feel about AT&T and the way they handled this business deal. Personally I think it sucked and I will be moving my business elsewhere. | |
| | | | | Anon |  CAN YOU SAY, IDIOT
| |
| | | | | krd
join:2000-08-26
New York, NY |  Re: CAN YOU SAY, IDIOT
"We are currently negotiating with a group of our ISP partners for interim funding to support the migration of existing subscribers to alternate DSL service providers. Additional partners are welcome to join this discussion in order to facilitate the migration of their subscribers. Please call your NorthPoint account representative for more information. If we are unable to reach an agreement with our partners for interim funding to support the subscriber migration, we will immediately begin the shut down of our network. We will inform you of the outcome of these negotiations and the time frame for the eventual network shutdown as soon as information is available. We expect resolution within the next few days." (posted 3/22/01) | |
|
| | DeeCPremium
join:2000-09-01
the world
kudos:1 | Re: Don't Email You're an idiot. Just because Covad, Rhythms, or Cable is in YOUR area, doesn't mean it is available to those of us that ONLY had NP at our CO. Geeze...it is people like you that stand by and don't give a crap what happens to others, and I would rather not know you as a person, as well as have you as a customer. | |
|
| | | Can someone post the fax numbers since they may or may not read the email | |
|
 Buggy
join:2000-10-24
Tampa, FL | Ho Hum ... So people get mad and try to persuade the powers that be to change this.
Everyone seems to forget the fact that they chose Northpoint. If Northpoint fails then they should have no reason to believe that someone is going to come save the day for them. AT&T has no contractual obligation to any of these people complaining. Sure I would be mad if I lost my connection, but I would be mad at Northpoint for not being able to stay alive more so than those that came in and cleaned them out.
--
Me | |
| | mubs
join:2000-11-11
Clifton Park, NY
| Re: Ho Hum ... Yes I'm mad at Northpoint, I liked my DSL service, and now I don't have it. But I'm also mad at AT&T.
All I wanted was a little notice that my service was going to be terminated, so that I could find an alternative provider.
I was and am willing to pay for the time that this takes. AT&T and however in their infinite wisdom choose to cancel immediately, and pissed off a whole bunch of people in the process.
I think the board at AT&T deserves to be told when they screw up, and I believe they did.
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 12:29:31] | |
| | | | | | | | Anon | Re: Ho Hum ... | |
|
| | | Anon | If your a business than give me a call and I'll try to get you hooked up.
612-940-5694 | |
| | | | Anon | first i would like to state that losing connectivity does suck. however, the fall of northpoint did not happen overnight. i've been following it for a couple of months now. of my friends that were connected to northpoint, i suggested to them that they start thinking of an alternate broadband solution. | |
|
|  bivBbr BivPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-26
Baltimore, MD | I did not -- I repeat -- I did not choose Northpoint. It was the ONLY provider in my particular neighborhood. No other alternatives exist except for satellite, and I've already suffered the miserable DirecPC experience.
Cable is not available in my metropolitan area. Nor is Covad, Rhythms, Verizon, etc. . .
Northpoint was my only choice. | |
| | | Buggy
join:2000-10-24
Tampa, FL | Re: Ho Hum ... said by biv:
I did not -- I repeat -- I did not choose Northpoint.
said by biv:
Northpoint was my only choice.
Still a choice nonetheless.
I feel for you, but all hate should be directed to Northpoint and their failure to service you. AT&T never agreed to supply you with DSL or any kind of service. They only wanted the equipment and that is what they're going to get. It doesn't matter what they use it for.
--
Me | |
| | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Ho Hum ... AT&T never agreed to supply you with DSL or any kind of service
It is not exactly true. AT&T offers it's own DSL service and (may be) is going to use Northpoint equipment to do it - but playing as ISP instead of wholesale. If they provide former NP subscribers the choice - be switched to they network or disconnected after short time - it would be fair.
At the moment it looks like ATT is happy to destroy good working network to make their own instead.
Alex | |
| | | | | | Anon | Re: Ho Hum ... I think your missing the point.
NorthPoint sold to ISPs and was not a large direct sales company if at all.
They sold to everyone through ISPs
They were trying to compete mostly in the business class SDSL market and that is not where AT&T wants to compete.
I'm just saying that AT&T is not willing to change their business model to accommodate 1oo,K of customers spread out over many states when they are used to having 100, K customer base in one state.
You can't blame them for doing what to them ( and me) is smart business.
Just my opinion, | |
| | | | | | amoiseyevWent For Beer
join:2000-11-14
Worcester, MA | Re: Ho Hum ... 'm just saying that AT&T is not willing to change their business model to accommodate 1oo,K of customers spread out over many states when they are used to having 100, K customer base in one state.
Visit www.att.com
They offer both ADSL and SDLS/business connections, and they offer it for everybody - with no reference to particular state etc.
I think YOU missing the point. ATT competes at the same market as NP was, althouh with other business model.
Do you mean that ATT preferes to accomodate former NP subscribers as a new customers instead of just transferring them? It seems a bit stupid...
Alex | |
|
| | | Anon | Same here man. I signed up with a company called DSLi thinking that they would be the one to provide my dsl for me. Later I find out that they are a "finder" of ISP for anyone who wants it. They hooked me up with Northpoint and now I find out that I'm going to be disconnected. Not fair at all. I have no other choices (rythms, Bellsouth, earthlink, Etc.) I dont know about the cable choice, but I'd rather have my dsl.... | |
| | |
| said by biv:
I did not -- I repeat -- I did not choose Northpoint. It was the ONLY provider in my particular neighborhood. No other alternatives exist except for satellite, and I've already suffered the miserable DirecPC experience.
Cable is not available in my metropolitan area. Nor is Covad, Rhythms, Verizon, etc. . .
Northpoint was my only choice.
Hmmmmm so you mean you HAD to get DSL? You mean there was NO choice? Gun to the head, do or die situation? So was Northpoint really your only choice?
Actually all I mean is that personally I would rather have dialup than go through the hassle and iratation of dealing with issues like this. AT&T may be wrong in the customer service sense but they really have no obligation to continue service northpoint's customers.
--
Me fail english? That's unpossible!
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 14:34:29] | |
|
|
| What you (Buggy) just said is totally absurd. As if someone would have known the AT&T incident was about to occur.....it was so sudden and with so little warning that it's unlikely that most people could have seen this coming.
AT&T may not have a contractual obligation to the Northpoint subscribing base, but there is a certain moral obligation involved in this situation. What AT&T did in this case was anything but fair; even in the business world there should be something called ethics. Too many people believe that business can just do anything it wants because they "are the backbone of the American economy"....I am as open to the free-market system as anyone, though I do believe in certain levels of regulation. Anyone who believes that we are better off letting big business police itself is just plain naive.
Regardless of any type of mismanagement at Northpoint (or whatever caused the fold-up), AT&T should inherit any obligations inherited from the takeover. I don't expect AT&T to keep providing service to Northpoint's customers indefinately, though I would expect them to at least stay alive long enough to migrate the refugees to new services if available.
Bottom line: AT&T has the obligation to allow Northpoint's subscribing body time to relocate their subscriptions, even if AT&T can't or won't do that for them.
Regards,
Christian
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 13:59:33] | |
| | | Buggy
join:2000-10-24
Tampa, FL | Re: Ho Hum ... said by CFeicht:
AT&T may not have a contractual obligation to the Northpoint subscribing base
said by CFeicht:
AT&T should inherit any obligations inherited from the takeover.
said by CFeicht:
Bottom line: AT&T has the obligation to allow Northpoint's subscribing body time to relocate their subscriptions,
Well which is it?? Methinks the first one. BTW, this wasn't a 'takeover', it was just a purchase of the equipment formally owned by Northpoint, just as if they had bought all of company XYZ's computers or chairs after they went out of business. They have no obligation to continue to use that equipment for its prior function.
--
Me | |
| | |  dj12midnitTag You'R ItPremium
join:2000-07-28
Lynden, WA
| My 25 cent hamburger stand has gone under, and I'm selling my equipment. The only thing I ask is that you use it to continue selling 25 cent burgers till my customers can find somewhere else to get 25 cent burgers. Please send your offers.
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 14:34:24] | |
| | | | | | Re: Ho Hum ... I think it's a bit unfair to compare a hamburger stand to DSL service. One can do without a hamburger, but people who depend on broadband for their business functions might not be able to do so on such short notice. The issue is a bit more complex than finding another source of a cheap luxury. If you owned your own business, you might begin to understand this. People aren't hamburger stand equipment, either.
Besides, I do agree with the folks further down the page who say that this was a PR blunder for AT&T....it simply isn't a good business practice to raise the ire of 110,000 people who could be potential clients.
It is this short-sighted approach to business that has closed so many DSL providers and subsidiaries. AT&T could be next.
Regards,
C.
| |
| | | | | | Apples to oranges, to continue the food analogy. However, to humor you, consider this. What if that 25-cent hamburger was ALL THAT YOU HAD TO EAT? Changes things a bit, no?
Consumers in Japan are getting 100Mbit fiber for $40/month, and here we are shelling out more than that for a lousy 800k or so. Tech slump aside, the Internet isn't going anwhere, and this country needs a good broadband infrastructure. DSL is my only option. I count myself lucky that my CO is served by Covad and Rhythms, and that my ISP has contracts with both. I will be interrupted but not completely screwed.
AT&T has become the Deathstar again. Sounds like they need to be dismantled, again... | |
|
| | | | Au contraire mon ami,
You can do a Dun and Bradstreet report, check the stock, read the trades.....
--
Bavarian Berthold | |
| | | | | I didn't pick northpoint either - I signed on with goibs which is totally dishing their customers shut phone lines down put all kinds of stupid forms up and the 400.00 i paid 2 months ago they will credit towards a 128k line at 99.00
per month what a joke. I look at AT&T i hope they got a good PR dept they lost me i'll be dumping cable and getting a dish - cell phones service going bye bye too. | |
|
| | | Yeah, just beeeeeeeend over and take it. That's right, here bite down on this sock if it hurts too bad...
What goes around, comes around, AT&T. | |
| | | |
Gee Whiz Buggy,
Is your title General Counsel, AT&T? That's what you sound like.
This was a monumental PR mistake for AT&T.
The other poster's hamburger stand analogy was off base. This one is more accurate: You lease a business vehicle from a reputable lessor. Then, on your way to a business appointment, a repo man forces you off the road and takes your vehicle.
Substantive replys only please, Buggy. Parseing my language, criticizing word choice and correcting grammatical errors lend nothing to the discussion! | |
| | |
See 7 replies to this post | |
|  MeeToo7You Too?Premium
join:2000-10-18
Ardmore, PA | said by Buggy:
So people get mad and try to persuade the powers that be to change this.
Everyone seems to forget the fact that they chose Northpoint. If Northpoint fails then they should have no reason to believe that someone is going to come save the day for them. AT&T has no contractual obligation to any of these people complaining...[snip]
I did not choose Northpoint. In my case, NP was the line carrier, not my ISP. I DID choose Phoenixdsl, who in turn chose NP to provide my line. Phoenixdsl was sold to Megapath who then sold their residential customers to Telocity, who kept us with NP sdsl as line providers. We're back in the transition nightmare.
AT&T is behaving ruthlessly and worse than Megapath did when they refused to keep Phoenixdsl residential customers; at least everyone's service wasn't stopped dead, they still carried our connections for over a month until most of us were transferred safely to Telocity.
AT&T is looking only at bottom line dollar signs. You bet that if losing 100,000 + customers over this was going to cost them more, according to their analysts, than to keep on providing them with uninterupted DSL service, they would do it. If they chose to cut NP customer service at the risk of angering and alienating 100,000 + current and potential AT&T customers, it's because it made sense to their bottom line and no amount of screeching from us will change that. 100K people is peanuts in their buckets.
JMHO
--
:) | |
| | | | | Re: Ho Hum ... Never stop fighting the corporate stooges.
When the consumer stops fighting, they are at their strongest.
C. | |
|
| | Anon | hey smart guy, how many options did you have when you first got dsl, oh thats right you just got it installed last week with your new velocity port, from the adds pouring over tv. Before that you would have had to configure your router or set up a peguin box. More than the average southern can handle huh? I hope Bill decides to close up shop tommorrow and all of you idiotic GUI users can switch back to watching tv. | |
| | | | | Re: Ho Hum ... learn something bro said by ktarr:
I hope Bill decides to close up shop tommorrow and all of you idiotic GUI users can switch back to watching tv.
Ktarr, what are you talking about? Do you mean that you are using DSLreports via command prompt. If so, I am very impressed. Even though microsoft is evil, I would have to say it is preferable to not having a GUI at all.
I like the way you wrote that post for the sole purpose of making fun of southerner's, but you were entirely incapable of being coherent.
-Biscuits, drunken redneck fratboy | |
| | | | | said by ktarr:
hey smart guy, how many options did you have when you first got dsl, oh thats right you just got it installed last week with your new velocity port, from the adds pouring over tv. Before that you would have had to configure your router or set up a peguin box. More than the average southern can handle huh? I hope Bill decides to close up shop tommorrow and all of you idiotic GUI users can switch back to watching tv.
We southern folk spell the the abbreviation for advertisements like this, ads. As for the rest of your post I would have to agree with biscuitsjam in saying that for somebody intent on making fun of southern people, you come off like a dummy! Now if you'll excuse me I have to tend to my moonshine.....
--
Me fail english? That's unpossible! | |
|
| | Bull, everything you do help While your right that its important to send send correspondence via US Mail, your wrong in saying that you shouldn't bother to email people. Everything you do helps. | |
| | | | Re: Bull, everything you do help Why is AT&T's at fault for buying another company's assets and doing what they want with them? AT&T is in the business to make money. These weren't their customers. If Northpoint couldn't make money from these customers, why should AT&T waste more $ on a losing service? | |
|
Anon
| . .
[text was edited by author 2001-03-26 14:58:38] | |
| | | | Re: let em' leave.. Yep its called goodwill and AT&T just lost a big bit of it with 80,000 people and all the folks these people choose to discuss this with. A very big blunder IMHO by a company that does not have a lot of positive connotations in most peoples minds to as it is. | |
|
 dnoyeBFerrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI |  Yes but ATT could have been smart instead of stupi
Now they have none of these 81,000 customers who we KNOW already want DSL and went through labor to get it likely.
Further, the present location of their DSLAMS serves the 81,000 they just pissed off. so AT&T can expect NOT to be able to use those DSLAMS in a profitable manner in their present locations.
Even if customers do get ATT they won't be happy, and first competition comes by you can bet out of rememberance, they will change.
I know it has turned me off to TELCOS. I will see any nonTELCO DSL first. (if I think they are strong enough)
For now, back to ISDN...
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes
9:16
| |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
| Anon | Northpoint is to blame, not AT&T. Buggy and the others who see things logically have the correct understanding. All AT&T has done is come and buy up the pieces of a dead company. Northpoint should have informed you of what to expect and what your options would be. Bottom line is they're dead so rather than wasting energy complaining why not put your efforts into finding a solution.
My own personal experience: I was a Winfire customer who was dropped in much the same way. No warning, no nothing except for a DSL connection that couldn't be released. Rather than stew over it, I switched to cable and was back up in two days. I should have picked cable in the first place as the speeds are incredible and reliable.
And if cable isn't available, there's always good old dial-up to get you by until something else is available. | |
| |
See 13 replies to this post | |
| |  Any NP people actually been disconnected yet?
Have any NP/Megapath folks gotten switched to Covad or Rhythms?
If they cut off I will probably stand to lose a couple grand. However, this is the risk I, and everyone else, knowingly took when ordering DSL for business instead of a T1.
I had Roadrunner for 4-5 years. Miss it big time. Hope Insight gets their arse into gear with the fiber roll in my new area. | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
| | UGH! this is killer diller really Look you guys, for Business customers this is indeed a serious issue. As an integrator I have placed many of my customers on service providers who relied on the NorthPoint backbone. My own service for my business relies on the NorthPoint backbone, I did not worry at all that my ISP could not transfer their services to some other backbone quickly enough to support myself and my customers as they were one of the largest surviving DSL providers in my region, had I anticipated complete dissolution of the DSL market than of course my risk management considerations would have covered contingent hookups. NORTHPOINT was one of the largest SDSL backbone providers in the US prior to Verizon cancellation! How many more are there like me. This whole idea of jumping around from provider to provider is not a simple one. It takes much effort to transfer ips, domains, services etc. This comparable to switching services as an actual long distance switching company, You just can not get the new guys services fast enough. Now I am stuck until I rectify. Such is life and business... but what do you say to your customers?! | |
| |
See 9 replies to this post | |
| |  Like Bruce said
Waaahhhh-Waaahhh, Someone call the Wahmbulance.
Hey its not AT&T's fault Northpoint had a poor business module and couldn't make it, companies go out of business all the time. Just get a new provider as AT&T is not required to provide you with service!!! | |
| | | How did AT&T frighten the website?
Was that website started by Northpoint? | |
| | DeeCPremium
join:2000-09-01
the world
kudos:1 | Re: How did AT&T frighten the website?
Just another example of AT & T THROWING their weight around to FORCE things their way.
As readers realize the website (to email the letters) has been shut down, they will begin to see how DIRTY and disgusting AT & T is. First, they CHOOSE to leave us stranded in the name of BIG BUSINESS, then when we try to do something about it (email), NEXT, they shutdown the most efficient means of doing that (the website). Can anyone say the BOYCOTT everything AT & T forever??
Dee | |
| | | | | Re: How did AT&T frighten the website?
Of course, I'm writing my e-mail on a flippin' blackberry, seeing as I have no idea when the plgu is being pulled on my DSL.... =P | |
|
| | Anon | drop me an e-mail off list... wolcott_david@hotmail.com and i can tell you how....
won't see your e-mail until tuesday though... | |
|
| | AT&T got me coming and going I was happily prepared to get AT&T @Home, but, of course, it's not available in my neighborhood, even though the Westmoreland county office is only about 3 miles from my house, but they instead chose to set up the service in outlying areas first (Why???) I live too far from the CO to get "real" DSL, so I got IDSL, which is only 144K, but it's way better than dial-up. I went with an ISP who resold Northpoint, who was the only one who had the guts to try a faraway connection like mine, and it worked like a charm. Then, 3 months later, while still offering me no cable Internet access, and with no cable competition, AT&T is preparing to shut down my DSL and leave me with a crappy 56K connection. Someone tell my why this is OK.
I know this is America, and I'm all for the free enterprise system, but this was handled extremely poorly!
You gotta believe that there's revenue to be had from the thousands of subscribers that AT&T is taking over the circuits from. Maybe Northpoint didn't know how to generate enough of this, but certainly someone else does.
It's the year 2001, and still most of the country dials up to get online--ridiculous! Now I'm going to have to go back to that, unless I want to spend $70 a month on satellite. If it was cheaper, I sure would do this, and I would take my cable business away from AT&T, too, and migrate completely to satellite, but I don't have infinite resources.
Calls to AT&T to inquire about cable installation timetables are met with the stock "I don't know when it will be available" response. Asking to talk to a supervisor yields the same thing, just stated in a different way. It's time for someone, if you're out there, to give us a better way, so we can get online using someone other than these arrogant jerks! | |
| | DeeCPremium
join:2000-09-01
the world
kudos:1 | Re: AT&T got me coming and going thomsone,
Same situation, no other CLEC, or cable is at my CO. And to make it worst, my local Telco (Ameritech) says I am too far for DSL from then, but had 700/700 steady from NP which LEASED their lines (Ameritech, complete idiots).
I have the same question as you: I am/was a paying DSL customer with service, and now I am FORCED back to 56.6 (since I have no other options), so how can this be ok?? And legal? It is ok, in the name of BIG BUSINESS, to force people back to old technology??? There is a civil suit in here somewhere, just wish a good lawyer could find it. I'll surely join the list.
Dee | |
| | | | | Re: AT&T got me coming and going Yep, me too--I'm not big into lawsuits, but I too feel that it's justified. It's such a shame that this type of technology is in the hands of so many who are so incompetent! I don't claim to have all the answers, but you'd think that by now most people should have access to broadband! | |
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| | At&T Hummmm "Whats DSL?"
Cheers KO  | |
| JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO | Is the court the culprit, or AT&T?
I believe that the bankruptcy court specifically enjoined us customers/tenants from breaking our contracts, thus PREVENTING me from doing what the apologists say I should have - look for new service. We actually did go out and look for new service, and have had a proposal on hold because we didn't want to have to pay cancellation fees to Northpoint and didn't know how things would turn out. It's thus quite unfair that the bankruptcy should hold us hostage, and then apparently give us no reasonable time to make a change. That could have been a condition of the sale, or the proceeds from the sale could have been used to fund some transition - again, in the case of "real" property, I don't believe anyone would have been expected to vacate on a few days' notice.
My guess is that it was more the court's fault for failing to take Northpoint's customers into account - or, more specifically, for failing to set it up so the buyers or their purchase money took customer transition into account. I still think it was at least a PR mistake for AT&T to let themselves get in the position of looking like they're pulling the plug on a hundred thousand customers. | |
| | Buggy
join:2000-10-24
Tampa, FL | Re: Is the court the culprit, or AT&T? I couldn't agree with you more. The court basically gave this away to AT&T and AT&T took it and ran (of course). I was defending AT&T's action in another thread and got roasted, but I think you hit the nail on the head. The court should not have allowed AT&T to get off the hook, but they did. It would be silly for AT&T to then turn around and do something on their own that would cost them more than the purchase probably.
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Me | |
| | | | Northpoint is shutting down the DSL network not A T & T. The court has very little to do with it at this point. A T & T will not even take possession of the DSL Network until 60 days have passed and even then the DSL Network has to be fully integrated into the A T & T network and product portfolio.
Also, anyone who is worried about breaking contracts and paying termination fees to Northpoint or its ISP Resellers, simply order a new line from Covad or Rythms (if available to you) and let the old Northpoint line swing in the wind.
Good Luck Everyone. | |
| | | krd
join:2000-08-26
New York, NY | Re: Is the court the culprit, or AT&T? You are correct about Northpoint (and the ISPs) pulling the plug.
See »www.northpoint.net | |
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| Anon | Where do we go from here?
With all the talk, has anyone figured out a legal path to take? Is there one that might force AT&T to honor the NP commitments, or some other class action suit to protect the "rights" of us 100,000? Let me know. I would like to join in. | |
| | DeeCPremium
join:2000-09-01
the world
kudos:1 | Re: Where do we go from here? oldman2000,
Read my reply to thomsone up ahead. I am with you on this as I am being FORCED back to 56.6 with not other options.
If you do hear of a civil suit generating, keep me informed. I believe you can message me here by clicking on my name. I will surely JOIN any suit against AT & T because I, in my heart, can't believe it is simply "OK", for the sake of business, to do what they did.
Dee | |
| | kozam8
join:2001-03-14
Olney, MD |  Class Action
AT&T and NP are not the parties to go after. Most of us signed contracts with an ISP and send our checks to that entity. NP is simply a subcontractor.
I place the blame on my ISP, Verio. I have two year term contracts for service in more than one location. I send them payments each month, whether the circuit is unused (as it is in one case) or used regularly.
They have unilaterally terminated these contracts (based on the failure of a 3rd party to perform). Interestingly, this meshes nicely with their plan to get out of DSL.
Responsible ISPs will be attempting to migrate customers to other services, including DSL through Covad, T1, Cable, regardless of whether they are they are contractually obligated to do so. | |
| | | | Re: Where do we go from here?
Sorry to hear this. I can only suggest you call, write and complain to your local politicians, Congressmen, Senators, the FCC (good luck there) and the President of the US himself. Most politicians and public figures view the Internet and Broadband in particular as NON-ESSENTIAL. That's right, they believe that no one really needs fast internet service. We must show the Government that Broadband is ESSENTIAL and NECESSARY to our daily lives, as much as Electricity, Water and Basic Phone Service are.
The only potential upside to this is that the Northpoint DSL Network elements that A T & T purchased include almost the entire ex-Northpoint Network including the 2 Emmeryville California Operations building leases Northpoint previously had. This is significant in that (to my mind) it signals that A T & T will be operating the DSL Network elements from Emmeryville, with the major difference being that the IP Backbone will be all A T & T. A T & T has also stated that it will re-hire almost all of the ex-Northpoint workers (some 950 people I believe) to service the Network and to perform new installs. This will all be under the A T & T Consumer Division, not the Business Division. So clearly they will be aiming their DSL Service offering at consumers, as they also plan on bundling local and long distance services with the DSL product as well.
Good Luck Everyone. | |
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| | AT&T thinks they will still get us as customers AT&T was probably scared by the pricing we paid for service
in my case it was good price-now dump the people and get them signed up at their much higher rate? a grand illusion
in my case i'll be cancelling some if not all of AT&Ts services i presently have, tired of 4 statements from them a month i can take my business elsewhere. | |
| | | PING - The FCC has to approve!!!! To say it less rudely, a lot of you here don't have a clue.
AT&T can do nothing with any equipment, nor will they pay Northpoint, until such time as the FCC has approved the content of this deal. And AT&T would have to grant Northpoint funding to keep a network open that they may not even own in the end - this is completely unrealistic and even ridiculous.
PERIOD, EXCLAMATION POINT
That said, writing letters and sending email is good. If nothing else, it lets the industry know there is an active demand for DSL. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
als69
join:2000-03-25
Fairfield, CA | AT&T Claims to be innocent
I just got off the phone with AT&T DSL and they claim that it is Northpoint that is shutting down the connections. They said that they wanted to keep the connections until order could be restored and the end user (us) could find an alternate vendor or go with AT&T. So who knows the whole truth.
tyfys
als69 | |
| | | Anon | Re: AT&T Claims to be innocent It's all over the web, in article after article, that ATT did not want the customers, and did not want the expense of the transition of those customers, nor were they interested in the expense of keeping the network running for them. That was a business decision. ATT chose what was best for their financial bottom line. It is their right. As far as customer's though, shame on them for pressuring that web site out of existance. The people had all the right in the world to solicit people to send that well-worded reasonable protest letter out. That part is disgusting. That ATT doesn't care that much about customers and decided they could get all the customers they needed just fine without worrying about the 110,000 they allowed to be stranded just goes to show their attitude about customers. Until people in general refuse to do business with ATT, that attitude won't change. ATT has never offered anything I couldn't get as good, or better elsewhere, and my one contact with them did convince me they have lousy customer service. A simple matter took months to get straightened out and I was told a number of different stories just because their people didn't know what they were doing. By my own experience, I wouldn't do business with ATT, but now that I've read they leaned on this Web site, I'm even more set in my resolve not to have any dealings with them. People are flipping entitled to write their representative and file with the FCC if they wish. | |
| | krd
join:2000-08-26
New York, NY | From the www.northpoint.net website (posted 3/22): (seems appropriate for this thread!)
"We are currently negotiating with a group of our ISP partners for interim funding to support the migration of existing subscribers to alternate DSL service providers. Additional partners are welcome to join this discussion in order to facilitate the migration of their subscribers. Please call your NorthPoint account representative for more information. If we are unable to reach an agreement with our partners for interim funding to support the subscriber migration, we will immediately begin the shut down of our network. We will inform you of the outcome of these negotiations and the time frame for the eventual network shutdown as soon as information is available. We expect resolution within the next few days." | |
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RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Per Northpoint press release Here's what AT&T bought:
"Included in the asset acquisition are NorthPoint’s co-location arrangements nationwide, certain network equipment, systems and support software and related assets. The net purchase price will be applied in its entirety to satisfy part of the outstanding claims of the company’s senior, secured creditors."
Here's what Northpoint kept:
"NorthPoint will continue to liquidate remaining assets to raise cash. Assets excluded from the AT&T acquisition include certain tangible and intangible network, office and related assets, customer contracts as well as NorthPoint’s pending claims against Verizon arising from to Verizon’s termination of the two companies’ merger agreement last year."
(my emphasis)
As much as I think this whole thing stinks, Northpoint still controls the subscribers and therefore the fate of the connections. Not much comfort at all, but it looks like AT&T couldn't do much about it even if it wanted to. | |
| | | Some news for NP customers
As it turns out NP could release it's customers to other CLECs via a standard Letter of Agency, LOA, but they are unwilling to do so since they perceive (with some truth) that it will eliminate their leverage to get their non-paying ISPs to cough up anything ever.
If they were to do this customers could be transitioned to Rhythms in a few days since NP and Rhythms have the same DSLAMs. Switching to Covad would require users to get new hardware.
That said GotBandwidth.Com can provision a Rhythms line and allow most business users with Netopia, Copper Rocket, and perhaps 3com hardware to avoid the expense of new equipment.
Give us a call if you need help or advice, 888-927-2638. | |
| | Cire7
join:2000-11-28
Little Falls, NJ | Re: Some news for NP customers Yes thats all well and good, but I'm part of the percentage of former NP's that CAN NOT GET RHYTHMS! The only provider other than verizon is NAS in my CO. NAS from what I hear isn't great and is at least 3x the money for 1/4 the speeds I was getting. I would MUCH rather have AT&T or by the grace of god NP bounce back and take control of the same lines I already have hooked up and offer service. I really don't want to spend another $500+ for new equipment and installation from another provider like NAS.
I just hope we will know soon if AT&T is planning a dsl network and if they plan to service the areas that NP formally did with the same hardware and coppermountain DSLAMS. I don't care if they can't transfer me over or don't want my NP contract or even if I have to pay a bit more. EITHER way it MUST be cheaper than my alternative of paying no less than $200 for a 384/384 sdsl and have to buy $500 plus of installation and equipment. I'm not made of money here. | |
| | | | Anon | Re: Some news for NP customers You might want to look at www.access-dsl.com for a local ISP that uses NAS as their CLEC. Their prices start at 39.95 for home connections, although I'm not sure what bandwidth that provides. | |
| | | | | Or try satellite. yeah right. sounds like a joke to me. I think satellite needs a lot of work before it will be good.
--
Brad | |
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JPCass
join:2001-01-23
Denver, CO | We're hostages?! (Some news for NP customers) "As it turns out NP could release it's customers to other CLECs via a standard Letter of Agency, LOA, but they are unwilling to do so"
So are you telling us we're still technically hostages of NP, and technically not free to go find new service? (OK, it's unlikely NP or ISPs would ever come after us)
Does that mean that NP actually has some incentive to keep the connections on so their contracts with the ISPs are still in force (I assume that if they turned the circuits off permanently they'd probably void their contracts with ISPs), despite the scary atmosphere of imminent doom? | |
| | | | Re: We're hostages?! (Some news for NP customers) Not sure hostage is the right word..... But close.
I can't see them coming after subscribers. There is no contract. But there is the issue of available pairs into an office, or house, releasing of the line sharing, and the time to wait for a new line.
Word on the street is they are trying to get ISPs to cough up some money to "free" the customers.
If they turn people off everyone waits a while to get a new line.
With line sharing this is even messier. Technically they have to release the DSL part of your line.
Steve. | |
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