 | | about time I wish this were the rule nationwide but why 95%?...I guess they have to make it be on a par with the postal service. | |
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 plkLil' Duffer Burger BarnPremium
join:2002-04-20
Ogden, IA | I had to thank Her I wrote the lady who wrote the bill via e-mail to thank her. It isn't a perfect bill but is sure is a good start.
Her e-mail
m.praisner@co.mo.md.us | |
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 |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: Oooooh! said by pnh102:
I'll bet Comcast is really shaking in their boots now! 
Shaking? no. more like editing the config files sent to modems from 1500000bps to 1000000bps
broadband is more than about download speeds. how about decent upload rates. 128kbps doesnt even qualify as broadband as stated by the FCC. | |
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| | | DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: Oooooh! said by pnh102:
But seriously. What can this commission do? they can impose fines and such, but Comcast has an army of lawyers waiting to eat these people alive. Anything the commission does that negatively impacts Comcast's bottom line is gonna be appealed to death.
Wrong. Comcast will spend much more money paying lawyers then simply improving service. quote:
And for the record, I know quite a few people in the area (as I lived there myself) who have Comcast HSI and have had no problems.
No one is denying many people are happy with the service. The problem is that Comcast treat some unlucky few like dirt and the customers have no recourse. Given that Comcast is the de facto monopoly highspeed internet provider, I think the bill makes a lot sense.
PS: I had to edit your quotes because DSLR wouldn't let some of the words through that you had used - strange! | |
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| | | |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Oooooh! said by DonLibes:
Wrong. Comcast will spend much more money paying lawyers then simply improving service.
Most large corporations already have a fleet of lawyers on retainer. Using them to fight this commission won't cost Comcast any more than they are already paying them now.
said by DonLibes:
The problem is that Comcast treat some unlucky few like dirt and the customers have no recourse. Given that Comcast is the de facto monopoly highspeed internet provider, I think the bill makes a lot sense.
I'm sure you and I could both agree that if this indeed was true, another cable provider might provide better service. Given what I said above, I still assert that this commission will in the end be yet another unnecessary branch of government which doesn't do anything. On the other hand, Montgomery County could have give other cable companies franchise agreements so that they could provide service in addition to Comcast. The threat of competition usually forces companies to shape up if indeed there is a problem.
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DRM == Doesn't Read MP3s | |
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| | | | | DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: Oooooh! said by pnh102:
said by DonLibes:
The problem is that Comcast treat some unlucky few like dirt and the customers have no recourse. Given that Comcast is the de facto monopoly highspeed internet provider, I think the bill makes a lot sense.
I'm sure you and I could both agree that if this indeed was true, another cable provider might provide better service. Given what I said above, I still assert that this commission will in the end be yet another unnecessary branch of government which doesn't do anything.
We've got the statistics to show that we have a serious problem. Our council voted for it so that means they agreed with the severity of the problem and the need for a solution. Argue all you want but your case would be more convincing with facts. quote:
On the other hand, Montgomery County could have give other cable companies franchise agreements so that they could provide service in addition to Comcast. The threat of competition usually forces companies to shape up if indeed there is a problem.
Montgomery County would be very happy to sign more franchises. In fact, Starpower has a franchise with MC. Unfortunately, they kinda ran out of money and, although they still operate, serve a small fraction of the county.
So your alternative of encouraging competition is something we've tried very hard to do. It just hasn't worked out. | |
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| | | | | | quote:
No one is denying many people are happy with the service. The problem is that Comcast treat some unlucky few like dirt and the customers have no recourse. Given that Comcast is the de facto monopoly highspeed internet provider, I think the bill makes a lot sense.
Exactly.
My brother lives in Montgomery County and his home, like mine here, is near the end of a cable run. Both of us have had problems with Cable.
In my case (with Adelphia), there is a Node 3 poles up the street that has had constant problems since fiber arrived 4 years ago.
Before the Node everyone is happy, after the Node (my end of the street) the signal is degraded, but I seem to be the only one who cares or complains. Next door neighbor has PowerLink which she says is slow and goes down all the time, but she doesn't care because she uses the Net so little.
An Adelphia Tech told me candidly last year not much would be done unless "enough people complained". I'm still waiting to discover what number "enough" is.
In my brother's case down in MD, the Comcast cable is buried and somewhere not too far up his street there is a fault. They can't get anything done because (again) "Not enough people have complained".
We both have felt somewhat helpless for way too long.
I wish my town council would "get involved" the way Montgomery County has!
It's nice to hear that Montgomery County is finally doing something! Maybe that type of action will become a trend. | |
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| | | | | DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: Oooooh! said by Cheetah9:
I wish my town council would "get involved" the way Montgomery County has!
It's nice to hear that Montgomery County is finally doing something! Maybe that type of action will become a trend.
The only reason the council took action was because their constituents complained - loudly and frequently. There's a quote from one of the council members that she can't go shopping without hearing people complain. I'm not saying you should make a nuisance of yourself but it sounds like you're wasting your time complaining to the cable company and you should instead complain to the cable authority. | |
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| | | | |  JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by Cheetah9:
They can't get anything done because (again) "Not enough people have complained".
If I were Comcast, I wouldn't use that phrase. Some people might interpret it as encouragement to organize the folks who have complaints but haven't yet figured out a way to voice them. said by Cheetah9:
We both have felt somewhat helpless for way too long.
I'd like to share something with you Cheetah. I read this "Inspirational Text" in midranger4's BBR profile. The profile is now changed, but it used to be something like this: said by midranger4:
There are three kinds of people in this world:
1) People who make things happen,
2) People who watch things happen, and
3) People who wonder what happened.
Which one are you?
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| | | vic102482Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| said by pnh102:
said by dvd536:
Shaking? no. more like editing the config files sent to modems from 1500000bps to 1000000bps
Comcast should tack on a $100/month compliance fee to each of the Montgomery County customers' bills That will solve their problems real fast LOL.
Comcast is already raising prices on their monthly services. But they are guilty of modding service. I have NEVER been able to get over 1 meg with my 1.5 megabit service at ANY TIME of day. Not 12 pm, 4pm 6pm and 2am I knew something was wrong when I cant get full speed at 2 in the morning.
There needs to be a compromise though, comcast will raise prices to pay for whatever upgrades they need and fines they need to pay for. Mont. County will be hurting more than helping.
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!
[text was edited by author 2003-02-12 09:19:16] | |
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 DJPremium
join:2001-06-13
Columbus, GA | Look at the latency requirements! Some of the technical details are really nice...
No more than 60ms for more than 1 hour, and no more than 30ms for more than 6 hours. WOW! That would pretty much prevent any slowed speeds! It should be very interesting to see if Comcast can keep up with these demands.
If only all franchises could be like this. *sigh* | |
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|  sapoCruising Down Memory LanePremium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Look at the latency requirements! wow... this is the way I wanted stuff to be... super low latency and average speeds...
now if califronia could do this....
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Picture Gallery | |
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| |  Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ | Re: Look at the latency requirements! They will appeal it to death and bring it to court, don't count on them giving in to the demands that easily.
We have NJ trying to force a TV channel on Cablevision here, and they already vowed to fight to the death before it happens. Cable companies think they are immune from regulations, and for the most part right now they are. But that's slowly changing... for the better hopefully.
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[BetaNews | phpBB |MSN TerraServer |Space Imaging] | |
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| | |  JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: Look at the latency requirements! Which is just hilarious, since it would be cheaper for the cable co to fix their services instead of fighting protracted court battles. | |
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| | | Maybe someone a little closer to the proceedings in Maryland can clarify this, but I do not believe that the bill that is linked was the version that was passed by the Montgomery County Council. My understanding is that the technical details (such as latency, etc.) was going to a committee to be worked out. | |
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| | DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: Look at the latency requirements! said by Mr Attitude:
Maybe someone a little closer to the proceedings in Maryland can clarify this, but I do not believe that the bill that is linked was the version that was passed by the Montgomery County Council. My understanding is that the technical details (such as latency, etc.) was going to a committee to be worked out.
You are correct. The latest one says exactly what you describe. Many other changes were made (besides the standards) to the bill. Draft 7 isn't even close to the final version. The last draft I had was 12. You can still see it at
»groups.yahoo.com/group/mctrench/···session/ | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Gamers are the bane of any ISP. they wish they would simply go away as gaming requires not only a decent network but well maintained.
Be careful what you wish for, they could put some sort of interleave on your connection. ask any Qwest DSL gamer what their biggest beef is with their connection and most will reply 'qwests interleave on my line' | |
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| | | | Re: Look at the latency requirements! I understand what you are saying, but how does one explain away Comcast's promotion of Xbox Live? »online.comcast.net/products/xbox.asp?link=1
or maybe if enough cash comes your way from Redmond, you'll say anything | |
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| | | | | Re: Look at the latency requirements! said by J D McDorce:
I understand what you are saying, but how does one explain away Comcast's promotion of Xbox Live? »online.comcast.net/products/xbox.asp?link=1
or maybe if enough cash comes your way from Redmond, you'll say anything
Well, it's the same reason they say you can download music faster. It's all about signing up someone and making them pay. Once they find out the service won;t work as well, the tech support person says,'Oh I'm sorry. We don't garauntee you can use your XBOX or speeds."
This all came about because of the complacency and lack of cutomer service that Comcast has given over the years. Had they treated people differently, this would have never happened. Now, they will have to fight it and maybe even lose. What are they going to do? Leave Montgomery County? Then everyone else will be looking to impliment the same thing across the country and no way in hell are cable companies going to lose all their customers.
See what happens when you take your customers for granted? | |
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| | bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Interleaving is usually used as a last resort when you are too far out on the cable plant to have a solid connection. Check with those gamers and see what their distance is. It would seem strange for an ISP to put an interleave on a subscriber because they are a gamer, but it is Qworst after all.
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root by day... raver by night...
fluorine.org : WAR IS TERRORISM... Therefore, the US is a terrorist state... | |
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| |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by dvd536:
Gamers are the bane of any ISP. they wish they would simply go away as gaming requires not only a decent network but well maintained.
But Gamers are also the people who are first adopters, are willing to pay more, are more tech savvy (low maintenance on the REGULAR customer support) more likely to overlook things like crappy newsservice, spotty email, and poor technical support, and will stay.... PROVIDED you can provide the low latency and speeds they expect... but if you can't, then yes, they will give you hell.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Wow.
More likely they will follow SBC's model and say "We're going to shut down all services within your region-- until you overthrow that bill."
Anyone want to place bets? | |
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| |  KoolMoeAw ManPremium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD | Re: Look at the latency requirements! Ya, I'll bet. Because the county franchise can always be given to someone else. As I understand it, if a franchise is yanked, the cable company can't/won't just pull up all it's lines. The county may have to compensate the cable co for those lines, but they'll get that back in the new franchise fee. If Comcast wants to pull out of Montgomery County (which is not a poor county by any means) due to this amendment, I'm sure there are other operators who would love to come in - even with this amendment's existence.
Here in Anne Arundel County, we have two cable franchises; Comcast and Millenium. It's a sweet situation. Had Comcast (TV) for 3 years til the bill hit $60/mo. So we ditched and got the same package with Millenium for $40/mo for one year. Once that bill starts getting too high, back to Comcast...
Of course, we have DSL for internet cause it's better!
KM | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Look at the latency requirements! It's great to have choices....
... but most of us don't. | |
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| | | | said by KrK:
Wow.
More likely they will follow SBC's model and say "We're going to shut down all services within your region-- until you overthrow that bill."
Anyone want to place bets?
Sure, I'll take that bet. Once they cut off service, they are in violation of the franchise agreement and will either have to turn it back on or will be kicked out immediately. Therefore, Comcast will lose the area and someone else can come in and take over the equipment and the payment can take a while. You know how goverment can be.  | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Look at the latency requirements! They can find a way. Let's say that bill passes mandating those levels of service to Internet users. What would be their likely response.... Slow deployment to a crawl? Double the price? I could see that.... "We have to hire on more people to meet these standards... yada yada yada We're just passing the costs along... write your local representative to tell them how you hate them forcing your rates up etc etc etc"
The point is, good service. Hey, we're talking THE CABLE COMPANY here people.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) | |
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| | | | | | Re: Look at the latency requirements! Realize this. Those franchise agreements are up for renewal every so often. You can bet they will lose that franchise if they did raise rates and play dumb. Also, many people would complain that they aren't getting their proper service and force Comcast to refund money and even pay fines. They can do a lot of nasty things but each one has the possibility of biting them in the ass.
Sometimes regulation can be a good thing. | |
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| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Look at the latency requirements! Regulation is a good thing, but what I am saying is don't expect them to take it lying down, because they won't. Rather then just comply, they will find a way to throw it back into the people's faces.
And most franchise agreements are long term things. IE, 20-30 years.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) | |
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| | | | | | DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: Look at the latency requirements! said by KrK:
Regulation is a good thing, but what I am saying is don't expect them to take it lying down, because they won't. Rather then just comply, they will find a way to throw it back into the people's faces.
This argument works both ways. The reason for this regulation is BECAUSE of their poor performance. The regulation didn't spring into existence for no reason at all. So you can say it's the people's fault for making the regulation but it really isn't. It's Comcast's fault. quote:
And most franchise agreements are long term things. IE, 20-30 years.
True but the franchise can be revoked for a wide spectrum of misbehaviors. | |
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| | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Look at the latency requirements! said by DonLibes:
said by KrK:
Regulation is a good thing, but what I am saying is don't expect them to take it lying down, because they won't. Rather then just comply, they will find a way to throw it back into the people's faces.
This argument works both ways. The reason for this regulation is BECAUSE of their poor performance. The regulation didn't spring into existence for no reason at all. So you can say it's the people's fault for making the regulation but it really isn't. It's Comcast's fault.
Exactly, and I agree... but Comcast won't.
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"When the day comes that anyone can bend our country’s laws and lawmakers to serve selfish, competitive ends, that day democratic government dies" -- Preston Tucker, 1948 (Yep, it's dead.) | |
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cairey
join:2003-01-27
Parkville, MD | I can hope! Well I'm within the state under the wrath of Comcast too. Hopefully they will give a boost to our speeds because I get an average of 900 down on my line now. My upload that is "supposed" to be 128 is a consistent 67. When I get the 256 up, it will just boost my speed to what I should be getting now. Very sad. | |
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| | Buffons All this is coming from people who have never had to setup and maintain a network for an ISP. You buffons seem to think that you can press a magical switch and all speed and latency issues go away. EVERY ISP has customer's with connection problems, dial up, cable and dsl alike. Some of it is the ISP's fault, alot of it is stupid people, I know I used to work tech support. People run 30 foot cables from their modem to their computer, then they wonder why they can't keep a connection. You vote with your dollars, not by passing stupid laws. If an ISP sucks cancel. No one cares if you don't have another broadband option. Broadband is a luxury not a right. I've worked for cable and dsl ISPs. I hate when people complain that their business is losing $10,000 a day because their cable or dsl is down. If your business makes $10,000 a day you should have a T1. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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 ArchivisYour DaddyPremium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:17
·Verizon FiOS
| F33r the only happy comcast consumer Yep, that's right. I'm the only happy comcast consumer IN THE WORLD.
1 hour of downtime in MONTHS. half a day of ISDN-like speeds. Other then that I've squeezes the max of my bandwidth.
I get the full 1.5meg down and 128 up (soon to be 256, woot!)
A few of my co-workers live in an area where comcast doesn't have them capped. I didn't believe it until I saw it myself. They're getting like 2 megs up and down. I'm buying a new home and found out that I'll be setup on the same node as those two.
hahahaha sucks to be all of you.
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Hitman Forums | The Internet Hitman | PHP programmer needed for a new project. $$$ | |
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| Re: F33r the only happy comcast consumer darn 2 megs down and i m only getting 3200 down darn
oh wait i m not on comacastie
[text was edited by author 2003-02-11 23:21:57] | |
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| | | may be its the choclate bars ? | |
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| DesdinovaPremium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD | I live in Montogomery County a few miles away from where all the brouhaha is being hashed out, and I'm the other happiest Comcast user in the world. I CONSISTENTLY get between 1.2 and 1.8 meg downloads and I've never had lower than 121 uploads. Granted, I've only had the service for about a month now, but I'm lovin' what I have. I hope that everyone else can someday get the same results I'm getting now! | |
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| Fran9
join:2001-08-29
Martinsburg, WV |  Re: That Would Put Adelphia Out of Business
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| | While.. .. Everyone basks in the sunlight of this great legislation, it sure will be very easy for Comcast in the stated area.
I believe by dropping their cap downwards to the bare minimum and closing down a LOT of ports for such apps like p2p or messenger services.. there will be plenty of bandwidth to browse and get your mail.
*I* would watch the fine print and see what all will be taken away for such 'awesome' latency and uptime.
Jack | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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 CuchulainnThe Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD | It's About Time As a former MontGoCo resident and I say it's about time Comcast got held to something. They've had it far too easy for far too long. Their answer to everything has been a smooth PR blitz followed by a rate rise and even worse service
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"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin | |
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 Go Chargers7Fa Shizzle Ma NizzlePremium
join:2002-09-24
Huntington Beach, CA | Wait a minute
Sorry, while well intentioned, even Comcrap can pull that off. This isn't going to do crap for customers, only create more jobs for worthless politicians.
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When yer a pioneer, you're bound to get a few arrows in the butt. | |
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| | | Re: Wait a minute You are right, those minimum levels of service would be insufficient and unacceptable. This is no doubt due to pressure from the cable company applied through officials at the state/national level to the local politicos.
There ought to be some justice, somewhere, just once... | |
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| DonLibesPremium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | said by Go Chargers7:
What kind of standards are these? Email can be down for over an hour a day every day? The Through-put standard is they only have to provide 75% of their advertised speed, and even then only have to do it for 75% of a 24 hour period. Which means in the real world they can give whatever crappy speeds they want 6 hours during the day, EVERY day.
Sorry, while well intentioned, even Comcrap can pull that off. This isn't going to do crap for customers, only create more jobs for worthless politicians.
If you think Comcast can pull it off, you must ask yourself why the bill was passed in the first place. The answer is that Comcast WAS NOT provide even those low levels of service and customers had no recourse or alternative other than to drop service entirely since Comcast is the de facto monopoly provider of highspeed residential service.
If you think higher standards are appropriate, by all means propose them. | |
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| | Go Chargers7Fa Shizzle Ma NizzlePremium
join:2002-09-24
Huntington Beach, CA | Re: Wait a minute Oh, so this is their solution?
Sorry, this isn't a solution. Forced refunds would be a solution but Comcrap having to post a half-assed effort while they're collecting 100% of their fee isn't.
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When yer a pioneer, you're bound to get a few arrows in the butt. | |
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jmr50
join:2000-05-14
New York, NY | Only Competition can Set You Free Competition does far more to motivate service quality than sanctions ever will. Give Comcast 3 competitors who can match them in terms of reach, service, and availabilty of public resources (i.e., right of ways and/or spectrum) and I'll bet you will see Comcast do one of two things: go toes up, or get their shit in order.
Across the country, it's become clear that cable companies that face real competitive threats are more responsive, cheaper, and *gasp* have higher customer service ratings. Why? Because they won't spend dime one on making their customers happy so long as they have a monopoly. What Montgomery County might consider doing is buying out their franchise, taking over the HFC plant, and letting 3 providers sell their services over the unified plant. More revenue would be generated than through the franchise fees, service would be stronger (since competitive threats would encorage the players to bring their best out).
Until every market has three or four strong players (a duopoly is never enough), quality will suck. Period. | |
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| | | Re: Only Competition can Set You Free "Competition does far more to motivate service quality than sanctions ever will."
That is the wisest statement in this whole thread | |
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| |  An excuse to lower caps?
"1 megabits per second in download bandwidth"
I hope this doesn't give Starpower an excuse to lower the d/l cap from 1.5 to 1... | |
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|  newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
 ·Vonage
 ·DIRECTV
| Reliable Broadband Is An Essential Tool . . . and in the future, as the Internet becomes even MORE ingrained into our daily lives, cheap, reliable broadband will become even MORE essential. Yes, essential . . . not just a luxury for the people willing to pay for it, but a service that is necessary to sustain and nurture a high standard of living, like sewer and water.
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The Rules of Spam | Maryland's New Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket? | |
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| | Aah I love my county...well sometimes I think 95% was chosen simply because over the course of a given week the comcast mail servers are generally down at least 5-10% of the time. Email messages to me often never get delivered from outside networks either because their spam filters are too strict or because they can't run an incoming mail server. Or both 
Does this mean that if my download speeds drop below 1Mb for 6 hours or more I can make a complaint. Excellent. And they already charge "franchise fees" to all the customers as an item on our bill. Franchise fees are actually just the taxes they are required to pay to the county which they pass on to the customers directly as a form of lobbying so that when they suggest that the "franchise fees" be repealed the voters think that they are the ones who are supposed to pay them and that it is a utility tax.
I think the next thing they need to do is mandate 256 or better upload speeds. | |
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| JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Aah I love my county...well sometimes said by Thatgeekinit:
Franchise fees are actually just the taxes they are required to pay to the county which they pass on to the customers directly as a form of lobbying so that when they suggest that the "franchise fees" be repealed the voters think that they are the ones who are supposed to pay them and that it is a utility tax.
Cable providers can only pass up to 5% of the franchise fee on to subscribers. said by Thatgeekinit:
I think the next thing they need to do is mandate 256 or better upload speeds.
As far as I know, Facekhan, the standards aren't yet finalized. Why not let the county executive hear your views? | |
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Reliable Broadband Is An Essential Tool