dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
Utah Fiber Smorgasbord
FTTH project streaks across Utah
by falling_star 02:23PM Saturday Mar 29 2003
Salt Lake City on Thursday joined 17 other Utah cities in a plan dubbed the Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency (UTOPIA), which will eventually provide $400 million worth of high-speed fiber-optic connectivity among its member cities. Once the network is complete, the agency plans to open up the network to private companies, encouraging competition among phone, television, cable and internet providers by wholesaling access to the network. You can read more about Utopia at FCW.com, The Salt Lake Tribune, or via the project's website.

view:
topics flat nest 
vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD

Schwang!!!!!

Down with Comcast (or whichever major provider gives service or doesnt out there)

More we need more. DC Maryland, New York, Atlanta, San Fransisco, Houston, everybody join in lol.
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

JakCrow

join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

Public dissatisfied with ILECs

And just yesterday someone said:

"What makes you so confident that the public is extremely dissatisfied with the ILECs- more so than anyone else? Because a bunch of people post on DSLR that they feel that way?"

Looks like a large chunk of Utah isn't happy now either. Are they "just whiners" too?
c0mmander

join:2001-10-03

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

w00topia! finally some actual competition. my cable co charges our area just for BASIC channels that everyone else gets for free (NBC/FOX/CBS/ABC), that $145 a year i could spend on something else. meanwhile SBC wont give me DSL because i use AT&T for local, so they dont want my business.

municipal fiber plus powerline broadband, bring it on!!!
too bad i'm stuck in graydavis liberal land of debt so it'll be awhile before we do anything like utah does

keyboard5684
Sam

join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

1 recommendation

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

How is eliminating the ILECs and replacing them with government controlled services better? Have you ever attempted to get a pothole fixed in front of your home? It practically takes an act of congress to get the crews out there to solve the problem.

To me it does not sound like things would be better, it sounds like they would be the same. You have private companies competing for the services but who regulates the use of the fiber? To me this sounds like tariff rates that will not easily be changed by your demand for lower cost services.

Do the costs come from a lovely broadband for everyone charity? They come out of your pocket one way or the other. I would rather pay a local telephone company guy $18 an hour rather than some lazy local government employee $25 per hour to take 6 weeks to come out and fix my internet connection. Better yet, a local ISP with control over the network and more concerned about fixing the problem than getting to the bank to cash his check.

Prices and service levels controlled by the demand of the market rather than regulated by government and unions sounds better to me.

Its my understanding that power companies are large faceless companies with the same image as your phone company. Broadband over power lines may work but your not getting anywhere company wise. You simply have another large money hungry utility with your services in there lap.

Some attitudes play into the game of large companies or governments scraping cash off of charging you too much. Kill the small cow because the big cows have some tastier milk is really what the group of big cows want you to keep thinking.

I do not think the government has your best interests in mind. Its all about money and the government is just as concerned about missing out on this financial bliss as your telephone company. Do you think the government taxing cigarettes so much is because they are concerned about your health?

I think progress is great but I doubt you want to assume this is the best thing for you. Its about people who need to make the boat payments. People get blinded by the promise of great things to come without questioning the situation.

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Seward, AK

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

Have you read any of the user reviews of the places that have county controlled broadband?
--
what doesn't this button do?

keyboard5684
Sam

join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

Yes, and they look good.

In the long term, 5 or ten years from now, is this really going to be seen as a good thing?

In a way this has been attempted before. Forcing the local telcos to "share" there networks. The only difference in this case is replacing the telco with a government system.
vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

1 provider is ALWAYS good. Its not about providers is about competition, thats what you are failing to see:).
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
said by keyboard5684:
In a way this has been attempted before. Forcing the local telcos to "share" there networks. The only difference in this case is replacing the telco with a government system.
but not.

The telcos paid for the network buildout and were/are later forced to open their own networks up to competition. In this case, the city is providing the medium thus no company is forced to do anything against its wishes. This way the companies cant monopolize on the lines also.
--
UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner:2092/369 kbps
mculbert

join:2001-04-11
Clive, IA

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

Actually all of us, our parents and grandparents paid for the telco's networks through years and years of taxes paid toward defense spending on the network. It's our network, only the telco's have the deep pockets for the bri... er, contributions.

The network was funded like the interstate highway system, but unlike the telco networks, on the interstate you are free to use who you wish to obtain your goods and services. Hell, if you want, you are free to use it to go get goods and services yourself!

JakCrow

join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

Re: Public dissatisfied with ILECs

To clarify things:

The bells inherited the existing infrastructure in 1996 when things were deregulated and the existing bells went from public utilities to private companies that didn't have to spend a penny of investor money to build networks from the ground up. While parts of the networks have been updated, the bells have been on easy street by not having to start from scratch. So any time they say the networks are investor built, that's only a small part of the larger picture.

Deregulation really should have made separate network "operator" type companies and services companies out of the bells to begin with so as to prevent the debacle we have now, but that would have made too much sense.
[text was edited by author 2003-03-30 23:08:54]
extreme100
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
said by keyboard5684:
How is eliminating the ILECs and replacing them with government controlled services better?
With municipal broadband, we can vote the bad guys out. Since the local elected officials will be using the same municipal system as the taxpayers, I don't anticipate a problem.

With ILEC services, we have absolutely NO voice in the matter and we will be stuck with 2K dialup service.
--
Earthlink/DirecWay SRS | SatMex 5-990

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by keyboard5684:
Do the costs come from a lovely broadband for everyone charity? They come out of your pocket one way or the other. I would rather pay a local telephone company guy $18 an hour rather than some lazy local government employee $25 per hour to take 6 weeks to come out and fix my internet connection.
Yeah but the lazy local government employee gets the job done eventually as opposed to the ILEC/CLEC/Cable connection where people go with months of piss poor service with no hopes of EVER getting ANYTHING done with all the intercompany fingerpointing going on. my view has always been "slow is better than no"
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

tomsprat
Draw Me A "Cold One"
Premium,ExMod 2002-04
join:2000-11-03
Fort Lauderdale, FL
quote:
How is eliminating the ILECs and replacing them with government controlled services better?
I didn't read anything that suggested eliminating ILECs, just providing more choice. Consumers can choose a provider that utilizes the fiber-optic network or they can use their existing ILEC copper connection, which the ILECs have decided not to improve upon.
--
Anything that ever was, was once a dream...

murdok6100
Avatar. Get It, Avatar?

join:2002-06-20
said by keyboard5684:
How is eliminating the ILECs and replacing them with government controlled services better? Have you ever attempted to get a pothole fixed in front of your home?
PUH-LEAAZE!

The post office is government run and its one of the most efficient organizations in the world. Besides, my township doesn't even bother with pot-holes, they contract it out.

murdok610

MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
kudos:3

Seems this is a middle-man network...

Is this UTOPIA network really intended to replace last-mile connections currently dominated by local telcos and cable companies? Or is it a "middle-man" network intended to give customers (such as telco's, cable co's,independent ISPs, and other businesses) access to a regional network connecting the state of Utah to the rest of the internet without any real plan to overbuild the majority of incumbent last mile providers' networks?
said by UTOPIA website:
Business Model

OSPN™ - UTOPIA’s fiber optic telecommunications infrastructure will operate as an Open Service Provider Network™ (OSPN). UTOPIA solely provides carrier-class wholesale transport services—it does not provide retail service in any capacity. Each service provider owns its own customer relationships—directly selling, marketing, and billing their customers.
I don't think this UTOPIA is really intended to connect to the "average joe" in suburbia.

...at least not directly.
--
Cable modem manual (PDF), TFC Coax Specs, SA Broadband (PDF)
kitsune

join:2001-11-26
Sacramento, CA

Re: Seems this is a middle-man network...

Perhaps you should read a little more:

What is UTOPIA?

Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency, a Utah interlocal agreement agency (17 founding cities) dedicated to accelerating economic development and quality of life for its citizens and businesses by deploying a publicly owned advanced telecommunications network over the last mile to all homes and businesses within member communities.


mig288
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Cherry Hill, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

UTAH to get Fiber!!

I'm here to say Good luck and i'm very happy that someone stood up to those greedy bastards. I'm hoping that some how some way we can do this 2 in NJ tri-state area Phil,NJ,Del.. I'm in south jersey so no optimum online!
I would gladly take optimum if they came or mulicipal fiber which ever came first..:) IMHO

RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

There may be a catch

I wonder if Mayor Rocky will fight it since the "emissions" from all that fiber MIGHT be bad for the environment?

I also notice that AT&T is/maybe/wannabe involved or at least making noise. They claimed to be putting real broadband in our area, but the only 'broadband' we ended up with is the cable TV service and I am seeing a lot of my neighbors putting up dishes and dumping that. (I use the old fashion V/UHF antenna on the roof)
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus

Re: There may be a catch

said by RayW:
I wonder if Mayor Rocky will fight it since the "emissions" from all that fiber MIGHT be bad for the environment?
Yeah, but then he would have to ban light bulbs, infrared devices, etc... However I doubt he would be willing to give up his remote control for his television...
--
root by day... raver by night...
If it were not for the French, we'd still be colonies. Next idiot please...

RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

Re: There may be a catch

Never said he was consistent
canelada

join:2002-09-03
Salt Lake City, UT

WOW

When?How?How much!!!???
let's wait...!
[text was edited by author 2003-03-29 23:13:14]

rtcwdude

join:2003-03-02
Tucson, AZ

Seems to me.....

That if this is the wave of the future, perhaps my long time latency probs with having to bounce through 1500 miles of network to a peering point might be gone sooner than I think. IF most municipalities see this as the way to go, and everyone ends up having a nice city or state wide Fiber Optic LAN, with that much speed perhaps peering points wont be such a touchy wash-my-back-I'll-wash-yours type of deal anymore. 50 pings coast to coast for everyone. yay!
I think it does speak volumes about how people feel about all of their local 'options'. (Even though most of us only have, at max, one or possibly two choices for broadband currently), Usually either a telco, (usually pathetic) or a cable company (also usually pathetic).
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*FIRE IN THE HOLE! SCHNELL!*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

TongSama

join:2002-07-04
Santa Rosa, CA

more municipals!!!!

i love reading about these things.. cities doing their own network.. as this gets popular my area will have it soon.. fiber for ~40 bucks a month???? this is worth the wait
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

at this rate, the only way

Good for Utah - with the FCC screwing around (and screwing up) and the ILECs sitting on their hands, this is probably the only way some municipalities are going to get broadband service.

This should be a model for the rest of the country: instead of having some monopoly cable or telco controlling the last mile, the local community can control the last mile, allowing any ISP that wants to compete to use the pipeline.

I predict that we are going to start seeing stratification in the country:

- municipally owned broadband networks providing fast, reasonably priced services to customers

- the rest of us schlubs being stuck with the monopoly cable or ILEC paying monopoly prices for pseudo-broadband

pmurdock
Paul Murdock

join:2001-09-13
Riverton, UT

It has scared Comcast I beleive...

This news has been around since June and it's interesting how fast AT&T/Comcast has begun deploying their cable infrastructure. Now they're stringing Cable on every little country road (I live in Herriman - near mouth of Rose Canyon) and they're even stringing cable out here. I don't see why or how this is going to work for them? Everyone already has satellite TV, and wireless isp's have snapped up all the internet customers already.

This news must have scared them.

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma

Can't you see the Writing on the Wall?

Who ever controls the Last Mile is the winner. The best way to do that is to lay your own Fiber. Nobody wants to foot the bill for fiber because everyone will be able to use it, so why not buy your own. Networks and Fiber are not magical tricks, and they can carry all the 1's and 0's you want and need. To me it's as clear as day, and a lot of cities are waking up to this fact. Install and run your own Fiber Network, and control your own destiny.

ALC

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1

come to think of it...

this should have been a government project years ago for each state to build out its own network and then contract out the Service.

So many problems would be alleviated, and countries like s. korea wouldnt be ahead of us in the broadband game.
--
UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner:2092/369 kbps

BrianDamage06
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX

Re: come to think of it...

Really, I think that this is the wave of the future.
More and more municipalities are getting fed up with broken promises, crappy customer service, crappy technical support, and out-of-control pricing, and these municipalities are taking it upon themselves to address the problem, since the federal government has no real interest in addressing or fixing it.
All we have to do to see an example of this is the recent FCC decisions.
All we have to do is look at guys like Mike Powell and their voting histories, and look who the FCC is in "bed with" (SBC.)
This approach however, is not "banning" the ILEC/RBOCs from access....it is only squaring up access to an equal level with competitors.
Then, the RBOCs can't control all of the access, and will have to play the same game as competitors (CLECs, ISPs) who have EQUAL access to the facilities.
The more time that goes by, the more municipalities we are going to see taking this approach.
I, for one, am behind it all the way, as I am for PLC, wireless, and other alternative means of obtaining broadband services.
Still, I feel that there is no real competition right now for the RBOCs, and with recent rulings from the FCC, it only gives the green light to further subdue the competitive environment.
Comparing satellite broadband to DSL is like saying that McDonald's is competition to a 4-star restaurant.
It isn't.
--
The rich get richer, the poorer get the picture, the bombs never hit you when yer down so low...some got pollution, others evolution, there must be some solution but I just don't know....briandamage@dslr.net

murdok6100
Avatar. Get It, Avatar?

join:2002-06-20

Re: come to think of it...

said by BrianDamage06:
More and more municipalities are getting fed up with broken promises, crappy customer service, crappy technical support, and out-of-control pricing, and these municipalities are taking it upon themselves to address the problem, since the federal government has no real interest in addressing or fixing it.
Exactly, and just think - the more and more that broadband gets popular, the more these "municipalities" are going to figure out just how much it sucks to be spoon fed the BS that us "normal" customers are getting.

murdok610

BrianDamage06
We Are The Hounds From Hell
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX

Re: come to think of it...

Agreed. The more time that goes by, the more convinced I become that the broadband "killer app" is simply being able to GET broadband that you can tailor to your liking, in a reasonable price range.
NO ridiculous caps, decent upstream speeds, etc. I can find content on my own, thank you.
Similarly, I think that municipalities as well as consumers are tired of being held HOSTAGE by the old Bell, government-SANCTIONED monopoly.
More and more people are realizing that the federal government is in big businesses' pockets, particularly the Bell companies (And SBC most specifically), and they are going to take matters into their own hands.
More power to 'em.
I will be paying a visit to my City Council soon to suggest the same thing.
We are in Verizon country. Enough said.
--
The rich get richer, the poorer get the picture, the bombs never hit you when yer down so low...some got pollution, others evolution, there must be some solution but I just don't know....briandamage@dslr.net
oldskools

join:2001-02-12
Salt Lake City, UT

I'm getting giddy like a kid in a candy store

I can't wait until I have a nice 100mbps connection to my house. yummmmmmm