Broadband Bill Of RightsCommunities draft their own guidelines ( old news - 03:00PM Tuesday Apr 29 2003) tags: legal · business As an alternative to developing their own municipal broadband networks, a growing number of towns and cities are drafting their own service standards in a quest to improve regional broadband, cable, and telecom service. The trend is part of the reason that companies like SBC are working so hard to eliminate states from the regulatory equation, while counties, states, towns and city residents are finding they're finally getting some attention after raising the bar. Montgomery County, Maryland residents complained loudly and constantly to county lawmakers about the poor service they had been receiving from Comcast in the region. Legislators in the area decided to forge regional guidelines for acceptable cable broadband service (you can find discussion threads here and here), something that was previously unheard of. The amendment (the most recent copy we're aware of is available here in Word format), makes some impressive demands, such as forcing Comcast to provide "1 megabits per second in download bandwidth for at least 18 hours", and "mail servers that can actively accept inbound e-mail messages 95% of one full week". The amendment also forces Comcast to allow VPN access, creates a commission to resolve complaints, and has some pretty hefty latency and service requirements that to our knowledge are still being fleshed out. The county recently applied its newly found regulatory muscle and has fined Comcast twice in the last four months for failing to provide adequate customer service, failing to improve overall service, and failing to provide accurate data on requested improvements (see subsequent Comcast forum discussion). The stage was set for these David vs. Goliath micro-dramas almost a year ago, when the Federal Communications Commission decided to reclassify cable broadband as an information service rather than a cable service, eliminating much of the federal oversight. The question now is whether or not regions will follow the trail paved by Montgomery County lawmakers. New Jersey is the latest state to redefine their cable service standards, Governor James McGreevey long promising state residents he'd act on companies that consistently failed to improve service (though state residents are apparently more concerned with car insurance at the moment). McGreevey's solution is just one of many examples where states or smaller political bodies are exerting pressure on the mega-corporations when the FCC won't. In Chicago, Comcast paid out $229,205 in primarily service related refunds to 67,444 customers (one out of every four) in February alone under a new Cable bill of rights recently enacted by the city. Mirroring similar Seattle guidelines that are still being tinkered with, Chicago residents now see automatic refunds for outages and $25 credits for missed service appointments (and no more full day service appointments). Comcast representatives in the area say the "radical regulatory scheme" will result in higher cable fees, decreased city revenues and a diminished level of service. And cable, long the poster-boy for telco lobbyists pointing out the unevenness of federal regulation, isn't alone in such battles. Telco's are scared to death of states, cities, towns and counties enacting higher standards and forcing them to change their ways. SBC's massive million dollar state to state deregulation campaign was designed to crush that threat before the trend grew wings, but they've seen mixed success. They've been well aware that in the end the concerns over what the FCC has planned may be the least of the their worries. The California Public Utilities Commission, bombarded with tens of thousands of complaints from irate telephone customers, decided to draft their own "Telecommunications Consumer Bill of Rights" (see Word document) last summer. The bill, which affects "all consumers who interact with telecommunications providers", should apply to broadband as well, and demands "timely and consistent service" from providers. It's a growing trend that cable and phone providers alike should spend a considerable amount of time and money this year attempting to crush. For regions where service simply has not improved after endless attempts, raising the bar on a local level and hitting providers in the wallet appears to be a highly effective motivator, and puts some of the power, however little, back into the pocket of the consumer.
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 vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD | Keep it coming. Comcast needs a leash!!!!!!
This is good really good. I thought it wouldnt work at first. I am glad I was wrong.
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Uh huh... And its to have at least this in it:
Article 1: Thou shalt not restrict the users ability to have servers on their connection if said server is not (a) infected with a trojan, virus, etc. and (b) does not user more than 1GB of upload per day (or something like that).
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root by day... raver by night...
"Let the American[s]... bask in their illusion." - M.S.S. | |
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Shrapnel64
Premium
join:2001-01-24
Hayes, VA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Uh huh... I would just die if that's the truth...I doubt it would work out though....to run a server in terms of a game such as Counter-Strike you'd need at minimum 512kbps of upload to run a 16...Team Fortress Classic you only need a minimum of 256kbps in which most of us have anyway.
I run a server off my connection via Cox HighSpeed Internet, Inc...however I never go over the 1GB upload limit per day - or for the 7.3GB per month of that matter.
Another issue that should be brought up is port blocking...I find it if you are paying for the service...you should be ALMOST freely to use it for what you wish. (Warez, etc) I can see if they try to stop you for that. Another note is FTP eats up bandwidth more than running a full-time server would.
Perhaps Cable Companies have come to their senses?? | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Can you here the bell? The bell tolls for thee...
The death knell of companies more interested in their own well being instead of their customers has begun.
Let the battles begin! To the victor goes the spoils!
If companies won't compete with each other, let them compete with the government.
I would wholeheartedly support any effort by my local or regional community to bring in more broadband choices and guidelines to push for standards of service.
It's about time the playing field is leveled for all, and these companies are put on notice that they must deliver or dwindle. | |
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Shrapnel64
Premium
join:2001-01-24
Hayes, VA | Re: You're joking right? That's true as well. I think schools and our children are a lot more important than our fabulous connection to the internet....Children first - remember =) | |
| | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: You're joking right? Right. And TV is even less important than internet service. So we should rip up those silly franchise agreements we've had for 10 years because TV is not as important as schools and fighting crime. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: You're joking right? said by DonLibes  :
Right. And TV is even less important than internet service. So we should rip up those silly franchise agreements we've had for 10 years because TV is not as important as schools and fighting crime.
TV and Internet service are not as important as good schools and fighting crime. As much as it sucks to have your connection goes down, it isn't as problematic as not having enough cops to fight crime or enough teachers in the classroom. Any government which places the former over the latter either has nothing better to do with taxpayer money, or has a serious priority-inversion problem.
Personally, I say the people who want to fund these ridiculous commissions should voluntarily pay extra taxes and/or fees on their cable TV/Internet bills to cover the cost. Don't take funding away from real problems to deal with BS like this.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: You're joking right? Well one, just out of curiosity, I must know if you work for Comcast.
Secondly, I'm confused. You suggest we can't fight crime, have good schools, and expect decent customer service at the same time? Is there some odd mutual exclusive science at work here that wasn't taught in Physics?
Right or Wrong, financially sound or not, if the service was decent, you wouldn't see this reaction from the local governments. You're raging against the effect in the cause and effect relationship here. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: You're joking right? said by Karl Bode :
Well one, just out of curiosity, I must know if you work for Comcast.
No, I don't work for Comcast.
said by Karl Bode :
Secondly, I'm confused. You suggest we can't fight crime, have good schools, and expect decent customer service at the same time?
A government can do all these things, provided there is funding for them. My point is that in these economic times, tax revenue isn't what it used to be. Essentially, there's less money to go around to pay for the things that governments want or need to do. In such a situation, government should focus on what is important and not deal with the rest.
said by Karl Bode :
Right or Wrong, financially sound or not, if the service was decent, you wouldn't see this reaction from the local governments.
Politicians loved to be seen as "doing something" about a given problem, no matter what it happens to be, even if "nothing" gets done. I'd also wager to say that service isn't as bad as it seems to be. IMO, if I based my decision to get broadband just on reading the stuff I read here about Comcast, I would not have become a subscriber. Clearly the service is satisfactory to enough people that they continue to send Comcast checks every month. That said, a bunch of dissatisfied customers canceling will send Comcast a much stronger message than some make-work government bureaucracy.
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Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! | |
| | | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| said by pnh102 :
As much as it sucks to have your connection goes down, it isn't as problematic as not having enough cops to fight crime or enough teachers in the classroom. Any government which places the former over the latter either has nothing better to do with taxpayer money, or has a serious priority-inversion problem.
Personally, I say the people who want to fund these ridiculous commissions should voluntarily pay extra taxes and/or fees on their cable TV/Internet bills to cover the cost. Don't take funding away from real problems to deal with BS like this.
What you don't realize is that the commission (in our county anyway) is a volunteer effort. It doesn't cost taxpayers anything. In fact, it frees up the time from our councilmembers who used to have to listen to citizens complain endlessly. So taxpayers should be very happy with commissions like ours.
As far as traditional cable TV services, our cable office costs are completely paid out of franchise fees, not taxes. (Some may argue that franchise fees are a tax but the point is that it's the cable subscribers that pay for the overhead of the cable TV regulators.) | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: You're joking right? said by DonLibes :
It doesn't cost taxpayers anything.
What happens when Comcast decides it wants to ignore the commission because its too much of a pain in the ass to deal with them. If the commission sues, where will the money to pursue this come from? If Comcast decided to sue the commission, where would the legal fees to defend the lawsuit come from? What about the cost of the use of county facilities (office space, power, etc.)? This whole thing reminds me of a local town near me (Coatesville, PA) which is trying to confiscate privately owned land so that they can put up an entertainment complex. The city has wasted over $600,000 in legal fees to get this land. By the time all the money is spent and everything is built, it will take forever for the city to recoup this cost. Meanwhile, downtown Coatesville is a crime-ridden $#!+hole. That $600,000 could have paid for more police protection.
said by DonLibes :
As far as traditional cable TV services, our cable office costs are completely paid out of franchise fees, not taxes.
Either way, the funding for this commission's antics is gonna have to come from somewhere, whether its from increased franchise fees, which will make no one happy, or from increased taxes, which will still make no one happy. I know for a fact that Montgomery County, MD, isn't a crime-ridden $#!+hole, but in a time where government after government is complaining about deficits and all this other BS, I don't see how spending money on something like this will help things in the long run.
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Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! | |
| | | | | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| Re: You're joking right? said by pnh102 :
What happens when Comcast decides it wants to ignore the commission because its too much of a pain in the ass to deal with them. If the commission sues, where will the money to pursue this come from? If Comcast decided to sue the commission, where would the legal fees to defend the lawsuit come from? What about the cost of the use of county facilities (office space, power, etc.)?
You're right, of course. But as far as facilities go, it's close to zero. The volunteer county cable advisory committee that I serve on (not the commission) is a similarly low budget operation. We don't even run our email list using the county computers (we host it on yahoo)! I think the biggest expense comes down to a small amount of staff time each month. (Believe me, this is overwhelmed by their work regulating the franchises.)
Legal fees from a lawsuit are a potential biggie but I believe this possibility unlikely. I can't speak for the county but I would be very surprised if Comcast sued. They've already publicly stated they would abide by the commission. Personally, I think Comcast will do what it takes to make sure they never get punished by the commission. That's fine by me. Comcast just has to do the right thing and we'll all be happy. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by pnh102 :
Times are tough, these governments should focus the peoples' time and money to solving real problems, you know, like reducing crime and improving schools, among others, than wasting effort on BS like this.
They appear to be taking their cues from the White House and doing things that do absolutely nothing to improve life for the citizenry (*cough* Iraq *cough*).
As for improving schools, national education system... Worked in Europe and elsewhere, which is why those countries a whooping all over us education wise...
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root by day... raver by night...
"Let the American[s]... bask in their illusion." - M.S.S. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: You're joking right? said by bmn :
Worked in Europe and elsewhere, which is why those countries a whooping all over us education wise...
You're right... there are significant problems with the K-12 school system that end up resulting in many high school graduates taking a year or two of remedial education in college because they didn't learn the required things in high school. That being said, if you have only $X as a budget surplus, what would be a better target to throw it at? Schools or cable TV?
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Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! | |
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g3ddylee
join:2002-12-09
Lincoln Park, NJ
| Fighting terrorism isn't helping our citizens?
[text was edited by moderator] | |
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BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO | to complain does not mean you are right who determines if the subscriber is right??? | |
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aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA |  Re: to complain does not mean you are right
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Starband 360 ~ W2KAS ~ DLINK DI-714P+ ~ XPro ~ XPro | |
| | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: to complain does not mean you are right said by pnh102 :
said by bmn :
The old axiom does... "The customer is always right." 
The old axiom is wrong. Only customers who make you money are right. Customers that cost more than what they pay aren't worth anything.
In the broadband world no evidence of that has been presented. There are people who are using more than others, but no more than they are paying for. Reason is simple, and I'd suspect a non-geek such as you could see that, you can use more bandwidth that you are allocated. If you pay for 3Mbps and you use 3Mbps, then the company is loosing no money.
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root by day... raver by night...
"Let the American[s]... bask in their illusion." - M.S.S. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: to complain does not mean you are right said by pnh102 :
said by bmn :
I'd suspect a non-geek such as you could see that
Me? A non-geek? Please. I have enough computing power in my house to run a small country.
I make that assumption on previous posts and as a person whose gotten the title ubergeek (I prefer networking guru though) from others.
said by pnh102:
I wasn't being specific to broadband. And I do agree that if a company tells you a service is indeed unlimited (e.g., you pay for a 1500/256 connection and you use 1500/256 like your example) then your provider should not be yelling at you. I was generalizing this to other businesses. Sorry that I was unclear in my previous post.
I suppose a broadband related example of my original premise could be that you have a few broadband customers who are calling tech support at least once per day (esp. for problems unrelated to their connection) and tying up the people in the support end up for 1 hour per call. The cost of paying the techs along with the time taken away from other support calls could actually cost the ISP more money than it charges those customers, so in the end, the ISP would be better off without these customers.
I thought you were referring to bandwidth.
But even in your example the company isn't loosing money. How ? Because that tech support usage from the I-D-10-T users is being subsidized by the ubergeeks and other people who know what's going on. A service company loosing money based on the usage of a few is a myth because there are those who make up for the cost by not using there service fully. Basically, the company doesn't loose money on the tech support junkie, because you and I and the other subscribers pick up that slack when we aren't using tech support. Now, if everyone from AOL switched over to say Cox, and started using tech support like they do on AOL, then the tide has changed because the majority (as they are now) of the users are complete idiots.
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root by day... raver by night...
"Let the American[s]... bask in their illusion." - M.S.S. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: to complain does not mean you are right said by bmn :
Because that tech support usage from the I-D-10-T users is being subsidized by the ubergeeks and other people who know what's going on.
You're correct in that regard. But from the ISP's perspective, tech support is a money pit. All the money they spend on tech support is written off as a business expense. They want to keep the amount of money they throw at it to a minimum. If one customer's actions is resulting in the ISP throwing more money at the tech support than that customer brings in, then indeed the ISP is losing money because of that customer. If the ISP dumps that customer, it does lose the revenue from that customer but its expenses decrease by more than the amount of revenue lost.
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Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! | |
| medici
join:2001-02-22
Shohola, PA
|  Just imagine if it were true...
Imagine if you could hold the prospect of a government complaint, investigation and fine over the head of the ISP's technical support staff when they tried to brush off your complaints of downtime or poor performance. If instead of giving up in frustration, because the only broadband provider in your community doesn’t respond to your needs, you could rely on your local government to enforce standards.
Then again, imagine if the technologically naïve politicians set the rules for port filtering, home networks, bandwidth quotas and prices, particularly when they are set upon by political action committees, lobbyists and disinformation campaigns by the highly capitalized and organized telecomm and Cable TV industry.
Upon reflection, maybe this isn’t such a good idea. After all, my state is one of the growing number that has passed a Super-DMCA law, which means my broadband router is now a potential instrument of terrorism and a threat to national security. | |
| | | | | | | WolfJaguar
join:2003-03-20
Portland, OR
| The day they try and take my router....we'll have another Waco on our hands.
On topic, perhaps the local and state govs should step back and take a look at their priorities. In any case, at least complaining works....sort of. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Just imagine if it were true... said by WolfJaguar :
The day they try and take my router....we'll have another Waco on our hands.
You make a valid point. What if these commissions decide that using routers and sharing your connection within your home should now be illegal? What recourse would you have against this kind of intrusive government?
Don't think it can't happen. Regulators more often than not don't have a clue about what they regulate half the time.
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Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! | |
| | | | medici
join:2001-02-22
Shohola, PA
| Re: Just imagine if it were true... said by pnh102 :
You make a valid point. What if these commissions decide that using routers and sharing your connection within your home should now be illegal? What recourse would you have against this kind of intrusive government?
Don't think it can't happen. Regulators more often than not don't have a clue about what they regulate half the time.
It has already happened! Read up on the new Super-DMCA laws passed by several states, including Pennsylvania, that make it a crime to use any device or software that is used, or can be used, to diguise the true scource or destination of network transmissions. That is precisely what NAT on a broadband router/firewall does.
So we are already criminals in PA. Best we stop discussing our illegal acts, or else be charged with conspiracy and organized crime charges as well! | |
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Re: Just imagine if it were true...