PA Bill Could Mute MunicipalsHB 298 would prevent government competition ( old news - 03:00PM Wednesday May 14 2003) tags: alternatives · legislation A pending Pennsylvania law could put the breaks on municipal broadband in the region, preventing local governments from competing in private enterprise. House Bill 298, otherwise known as the 'Government Competition Against Private Enterprise Act' would prohibit the government, government agencies, state-owned universities, community colleges, school districts and public authorities from competing against private enterprise, according to this regional PA story spotted via municipal attorney Jim Baller's mailing list. The wide reaching language of the bill has some opponents worried; critics arguing that while preventing the government from using tax dollars to compete is good in some instances, closing the door on things like voter supported municipal broadband outfits or college bookstores isn't in the state's best interest.
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 jmargel
join:2001-03-07
Northumberland, PA
| Monopolies galore in PA Doesnt surpise me. I live in PA. They seem to fck up everything that could be good. I think it's a personal goal of theirs.
Central PA has only ONE broadband supplier. Prolog which is a monopoly. Their rates have risen every freakin' year! 500/128 for $40 a month, plus you are required to purchase a cable package at $35 a month. This is against anti-trust policies, but hell it's PA. Apparently laws are only to be followed by the common folk.
This crap will never end until broadband, internet & such have so many laws regarding their use, etc.. that it'll be unusable. | |
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sbhusted
join:2000-05-14
Bethlehem, PA | Re: Monopolies galore in PA I pity anyone who has to use ProLag as their broadband provider.
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Scott B. Hustedhttp://www.Husted.cc | |
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furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA
| Re: Monopolies galore in PA said by sbhusted  :
I pity anyone who has to use ProLag as their broadband provider.
yeah tell me about it...paying $40/month for 1-way cable at 800kbps is just great! oh plus the $25/month for the extra phone line needed to dial up the modem. | |
| | | | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| said by jmargel :
Doesnt surpise me. I live in PA. They seem to fck up everything that could be good. I think it's a personal goal of theirs.
No argument there.
This is a state where our roads are shot to hell, so they build a bunch of f!*king stadiums.
About 8 years ago, they decided that there was enough money in the budget to give the lawmakers a raise, and then decided that we needed to jack up the gasoline tax.
Prohibition has been abolished for decades, but you would be able to tell here.
They're all worried about the fact that so many young people are leaving the state, so they decide the should stop it by raising taxes.
Head of Homeland Security Tom Ridge. Enough said.
I'm in my mid-30s, I have a family, a house, and a job, so I'm not going anywhere. But if I would have known 15 years ago what I know, I would have left this poor excuses for a state. | |
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items
Is Items Good For America?
join:2002-06-26
Lancaster, PA
clubs:
| We have more than one broadband solution in most cases. There are several smaller WISPs that everyone always likes to forget about, Verizon, independent DSL entities, and of course Comcast. Prolog isn't even available here.
What is funny about this article is that it propagates the utopian myth of "government competition" with private industry to make good for the citizenry. Does anyone actually believe the government can compete with private industry on even remotely the same levels, or only around election time when it sounds nice? Is government responsible for showing a dime of profit, being held responsible to shareholders, or offering incentives to the community? Untaxed, unlimited state income (that can always be raised until the citizens will revolt and give no more) confiscated from an unsuspecting crowd makes for "great" government fiscal policy time and again. If you think that a politician gets re-elected on the issue of broadband policy, you need to re-examine your priorities and get a life, quite frankly.
I already have concerns about the thought processes that lead to the kind of reckless thinking that prompted anyone to vote for the current Governor who rode into town on the promise of a tax increase (to the tune of 34% and that's just for education of course). The PA legislature is doing this one thing to ensure that this administration doesn't reach even further in our pockets. Boy do we hear the complaints from people who don't even live in this state or, ironically, have fled because of nothing other than the taxes. I applaud fellow Central PA voters for keeping politicians in office who continually resist confiscatory practices by our politicians.
I urge any PA citizen to look at the state liquor stores if they want a good example of what a good state-run monopoly looks like.
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As always, Talking Points Memo appreciates your comments.
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Uh. I live in Central PA and I have a ton of broadband providers. I don't even think prolog is one of them. I can get DSL and Cable in my area. I could when I lived in Hershey as well. But hey, I guess since all you can get is Prolog, then I guess broadband sucks for the entire central part of PA!
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The Internet Hitman | TIHM chat | |
| Surfinusa
Premium
join:2001-02-08 | Bad Deal Government should compete hopefully a lower price floods the market, then others will be forced to lower there prices. HB 298 does not sound good to me.
Happy Surfin  | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Bad Deal said by Surfinusa :
Government should compete hopefully a lower price floods the market, then others will be forced to lower there prices. HB 298 does not sound good to me.
Why is price all of a sudden an issue with broadband? what about service levels and tech support competence?
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
| NC Law North Carolina has such a law already on the books, and that law keeps all schools, including community colleges and universities from offering dial up access to students, even for free. Why, because it would take money out of an ISP's pocket
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"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda | |
| | | Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS | Re: What About the Will of the People? RIGHT ON TOM! | |
| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA |
Ben Franklin IS turning over in his grave.
He is turning over in his grave because so many people are turning to the government for everything. | |
| | | | | DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| I am of the opinion that it would past muster, actually.
Otherwise, you are basically stating that a socialist government should be allowed to compete with private enterprise, when the socialist government can subsidize prices with higher taxes.
State Governer - "Oh, the proles say our Pennsylvania Governemnt Cable Internet prices are too high? Well, we'll just raise property taxes to cover the cost." | |
| ross
join:2000-08-16 | They'd have hung these "Toadies" in 1776! Who the hell owns PA, anyway? It sure ain't the people. Talk about your blatant corporate state. What's next? Indentured servitude? Debtor prisons?
PA gets more reactionary every day! | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Re: They'd have hung these "Toadies" in 1776! Well, not all corporations love PA - - For example, Adelphia just moved its HQ west to my neck of the woods...and John Rigas and his ties to Coundersport are just one reason why the new CEO and COO moved the HQ.
Here’s their Top 10 list - -
1. We live in the south Denver suburbs and simply didn’t want to move.
2. Skiing is much better in the Rockies than the Alleganies, plus our condos are in Vail, not Olean.
3. We wanted to hire all our friends that Comcast didn’t pick-up (just like us) from AT&T Broadband.
4. They don’t want to move, either.
5. Brook’s Steak House beats anything they have in Coundersport – and it’s right in Greenwood Village, to boot, close to our new HQ. (N.B. Rhythms’ CEO liked it there, too.)
6. Neiman Marcus is right down the road – Coudersport only has a general store, a Sheetz and a 7-11, and our wives wouldn’t like that at all. People there think Louis Vuitton is the goalie for Rigas’ former hockey team, the Buffalo Sabres.
7. Coundersport doesn’t have pro sports - Denver has the Broncos, Avalanche, Rockies and Nuggets. (Okay, okay, scratch the Nuggets as a pro team and go with 3 out of 4.)
8. We don’t want to meet any of John Rigas’ friends (he must have a couple left), as we would if we had to walk down Main Street in Coundersport.
9. We don’t like Iron City beer. Or Rolling Rock for that matter.
10. If they’re dumb enough to pay us up to $41 million - much of it front-loaded - then why should they squawk at a paltry $2.2 million to move the HQ to where WE live?
I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did the computer industry. Not that that tells us very much of course - the computer industry didn't even foresee that the century was going to end. - - Douglas Adams | |
| vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| Thats not right If the government wants to start up a serice through the will of the people it should have every right to do so. If this passes then Community Bills should also be allowed to pass, and thats where they can fine companies for poor service. Something has to be there to protect the people.
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
| c24h23n2o
join:2003-05-14
Pittsburgh, PA
| Violation of Anti-Trust... This is along the same lines of what Comcast is doing. They were supposed to come into PA and make a competitive market vs. AT&T, but bought them out instead. Now, if you want their cable internet, you have to purchase their digital cable package too or face some ridiculous "charges". | |
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zabes63
join:2003-04-05
Batavia, IL
| Illinois is next SBC is feeling pretty cocky now that they know that they can buy anything they want from the state legislature.
Besides, they don't want to have to prop up the Iraqi Information Minister again to tell us why the Tri-Cities Broadband is doomed to cost each household a bazillion dollars.
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Click here to visit Tri-City Broadband | |
| c24h23n2o
join:2003-05-14
Pittsburgh, PA | Yinzer Beer Bistro...we do not like Iron City Beer Either. | |
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murdok6100
Avatar. Get It, Avatar?
join:2002-06-20
| said by c24h23n2o :
Bistro...we do not like Iron City Beer Either.
How bout Yeunling?
murdok610 | |
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furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA
| Re: Yinzer Beer said by murdok6100 :
said by c24h23n2o :
Bistro...we do not like Iron City Beer Either.
How bout Yeunling?
murdok610
Yeungling rocks - one of the few good things about PA =) | |
| | | mrs213
join:2002-05-25
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Crazy.... Nuts! Well, bad example on the patatching potholes/street-sweeping thing. PennDOT is the single most worthless entity on Earth, and the potholes here can bend a frame, and routinely destroy standard and alloy wheels alike.
No, I'm not kidding. | |
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macyh
Ex-Isp
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-24
Medina, OH
 ·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Ohio has a similar law pending... Ohio has a very similar provision pending, but it's not a standalone bill, they knew that would get too much attention. It was quietly slipped by a semi-clueless House member into the new budget bill while noone was paying attention. I'm told the bill language was provided by the lobbyists for the Ohio Cable TV Association.
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Macy Hallock APK Net, Inc. Cleveland, Ohio
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates (1955-Present) in 1981 | |
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kieselbach
Premium
join:2001-05-23
BRAZIL |  CORPORATE AMERICA vs. CITIZENS
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| NCT We should just give all of our money to the government and have them provide all of our services for us. To hell with private enterprise. Our altruistic government officials are loving caring people who want nothing more than to deliver us a utopian society with OC3's for everybody. | |
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See 14 replies to this post | |
major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Doesn't Surprise Me At All What do you expect from a state that has Rick "I hate everyone who isn't me or my family" Santorum as a senator. PA is awash in a huge tidal wave of elderly who keep re-electing the same old, tired, right wingnuts who will never bring the state out of 1950. BTW, I can say all of these disparagements because I used to live there. PA sucks! If you can get the hell away from it, then do it.
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The Bush message is nothing but a pack of lies, distortions, and insults, described perfectly by Shakespeare's Macbeth: "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -Dr. Ernest Partridge, www.evilGOPbastards.com | |
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See 11 replies to this post | |
one_bored_si
join:2003-03-10
Montebello, CA
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| What about other areas.. Here in LA there is the MWP which kept its utilities cost for electrcity low during the California gouging... ooppps, i mean power crisis a couple of years back. Government or state competition is a good thing. Southern Edison and others raised their rates faster than gas stations and refineries here in So. Cal can go from $1.39 to $2.25 a gallon. All this in the span of 5 years. Corporations will always raise your rate before the quality of their service.
Investors just want to hear... Cha-Ching $$$$$$ | |
| ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Enola, PA |  more pa glories...
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!!!!! Finally the legislature is doing something productive enough to discourage them from raising more of our taxes! I am glad that municipal governments, which already waste enough money as it is, are being leashed from pulling this sort of BS. Schools, townships, boroughs, etc. ALWAYS complain about never having any money but they always seem to find crap on which hard-earned taxpayer money can be wasted. Here are some fine examples:
•Back in 1997, the city of Chester, PA faced bankruptcy because its corrupt mayor spent city funds on car repair, yet the city seemed to have plenty of money to waste on brand new street signs when the old ones worked just fine. For those local to me, you all know how much of a shithole Chester is... working there late nights, cell phone programmed on 911... what fun...
•This year, my own township did the same thing... if I wasn't working so much, I would go to a meeting an bitch the supervisors out. There was nothing wrong with the old street signs.
•The city of Coatesville, PA has wasted $600,000 of taxpayer money to illegally condemn land outside of the city to build an entertainment complex. This city is another shithole that could have perhaps used this money on more important services, such as COPS!
•In Philadelphia, the Phila. Gas Works, the badly managed municipally run gas company seems to avert insolvency every year by taking more money from city tax coffers. Of course they never bother to collect from those delinquent losers who don't bother to pay their bills.
•The borough of Jim Thorpe, PA, bought all of the rights to the athlete Jim Thorpe, hoping to turn that town into some kind of resort. Since many of you have probably never heard of this place, you all probably know the outcome of this. Granted, its a lovely town, but that money could have gone to better use.
•Back in Philadelphia, the Penna. Convention Center, which the commonwealth has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into, is in complete disarray because one of the unions can't seem to understand that if they don't stop pissing off exhibitors, they won't come back. They want another $400 million to sink into this boondoggle.
•Then there's SEPTA... and there's a reason it stands for Sorry Excuse for a Public Transit Agency.
•Statewide, we have a wonderfully run Soviet-style liquor store system. It only recently figured out that being open on weekends is not that bad of an idea, even though it has to spend $4 for every $1 it makes.
•During the late 1990s, the state treasurer decided to invest the entire state pension fund into companies like Enron. You know what happened next. The treasurer's solution? Invest what's left in even riskier investments and hope the gambler's fallacy comes true.
Given this strong background, I can totally understand why anyone would want a municipally run cable system in this state. My taxes aren't high enough goshdarnit!
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Saying that Microsoft has a monopoly in Operating Systems because one is too lazy to learn a different OS is like saying that Ford has a monopoly in cars because one is too lazy to find a Honda dealership. | |
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See 31 replies to this post | |
dbarc
join:2000-01-22
Fort Wayne, IN
| Will the bite them in the end? One comment in the latest article was it might help cities like Philadelphia where they pay high rates for city services.
The resolution to that problem is kick out those in office who support problem areas and get pricing back in line or privitize where it's reasonable.
But don't kick the baby out with the bathwater. The same who don't want a competitive city utility. What happens when they want a new taxpayer funded stadium? That's the government getting involved in private enterprise. And it made a comment about a city loaning money to a hotel in the 50's and all the problems. That, today, is no different than the huge tax abatement and incentive programs to bring business into areas, be it metropolitan areas or rural areas, to bring or keep jobs. Would that too be illegal? It's government financing for private, competitive businesses. (NYC would have lost tens of thousands of jobs if they hadn't used those types of incentives to keep business in the city..
I admit, I generally am not in favor of many of the above practices. But it seems it kills some valid circumstances, particularly in rural communities. If someone wants or has a utility network or wants to add broadband and they're not on the map for any large vendor, they still have to get bids from them to let them do it? It'd be prohibitive. There'd be no scale for a large vendor to take that task on. They'd be out of luck. A small community should be able to provide their own service when not otherwise provided. if it turns out later on that someone else wants to compete, so be it.
Where I'm from there were two electric utilities. The city-owned one and the investor owned one. The competitive environment was actually good. As for golf courses, that is a little overboard. I'm familiar with some (usually par 3 type) and most of those I know of that are city owned have been owned for many many years. | |
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funkyfelty
Armament For Peace
join:2002-10-01
Lebanon, PA
·EvenLink
| BAd roads, I think not Everyone says that we have the worst roads in PA, but I drove through Arkansas the other day on my trek to Arizona, and lemme tell you, give me PA Roads over Arkansas roads, it felt like I was driving on speed bumps the whole way down I-40
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If there is nothing worth living for, what are you willing to die for?PA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD RULES (I am a mechanic) | |
| | Tom Zachman
join:2002-12-01
Dodge City, KS | Re: BAd roads, I think not WOW. Arkansas' roads suck. When I last drove I-40 the thought I couldn't escape was that Clintons had no intention of returning, otherwise the roads would have been repaired. | |
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funkyfelty
Armament For Peace
join:2002-10-01
Lebanon, PA
·EvenLink
| Re: BAd roads, I think not compared to the roads that I have driven on around the US (roads in about 38 states), PA does not come close. Heck, from what I have found, the biggest cluster of bad roads is in the South and South West of the US
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If there is nothing worth living for, what are you willing to die for?PA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD RULES (I am a mechanic) | |
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Re: Yinzer Beer