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 | k7kkg
join:2001-01-09
Tucson, AZ |  Re: Ronnie . . . you're too modest
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| 
footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| said by newview  :
quote:
. . . he was "probably the most hated person in this room."
In a room full of Congressmen? That's a bold statement. | |
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Logan 5
A Sense Of Loss On Friday's
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| And Ronald says...... "Ronald is an eighth-grade dropout and self-taught computer programmer from Louisiana who makes a killing off of irritating the hell out of others"
and this golden nugget: "This is censorship", claims Scelson, who claims anti-spam vigilantes block customers from getting all of their e-mail. "People still buy this stuff".....*sure* they do Ronald....and Tanya Harding will be the first female President of the United States of America.
Crap is as crap does......especially when you look as foolish as a certain *other* Ronald who also happens to be a Clown. | |
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| 
Im not here
@Dial1.Chica
 from:
mr sean
| Re: And Ronald says...... Reagan? | |
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| | | lswinney
join:2002-09-02
Pasadena, TX | Re: And Ronald says...... No doubt you purposely left out the biggest clowns of all. The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup. | |
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BCDT
@cable.earthlin
from:
MrTangent
| Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup Now surpassed by the Bush/Cheney Dishonesty Tour. | |
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| | | | | cableblows3
join:2001-06-17
Indianapolis, IN
|  Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup
said by BCDT:
Now surpassed by the Bush/Cheney Dishonesty Tour.
what has he lied about? he has kicked alot of butt, starting with little al, and give us some tax cuts. only people who should be mad are the left wing nuts and their hordes of, i want pay for no work crybabies. really scalds the behinds of lefties. hehe | |
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| | | | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19 | Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup For starters, he's lied about the very issue you mention - tax cuts including who benefits and how it will affect the economy. | |
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| | | | | | | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup said by DonLibes :
For starters, he's lied about the very issue you mention - tax cuts including who benefits and how it will affect the economy.
Since I pay taxes, I will benefit. Since rich people pay just about all of the income taxes in America, they will benefit.
However...
A 350 billion dollar tax cut does not matter one bit. Over the next 10 years, cumulative GDP of the US will be more than 100 trillion dollars. Reducing taxes on that economy by .35% is diddly-squat. The current tax cut is the functional equivalent of free supersizing of your extra value meal.
If you want to get serious about tax cuts, try a 350 billion a year instead of over a decade.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
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| | | | | | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup said by Beeper :
said by DonLibes :
For starters, he's lied about the very issue you mention - tax cuts including who benefits and how it will affect the economy.
Since I pay taxes, I will benefit. Since rich people pay just about all of the income taxes in America, they will benefit.
Actually, you won't benefit. Not in the short term or the long term. In the short term, the refunds will be made by raising taxes elsewhere (state and local governments for starters). But the reality is we don't have the money to give back, so the US is going into debt to provide the tax cuts. Further debt, that is. The long term is that you're going to have to pay back the current cuts plus all the interest plus the existing debt and its interest that we're already trying to ignore. When the baby boomers start to retire, the US is going to be in deep trouble. | |
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| | | | | | | | | havinfun
join:2002-01-29
Schenectady, NY | Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup Until spending is harnessed, the dream of paying off the debt is just that. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| said by DonLibes :
HR> Actually, you won't benefit. Not in the short term or the long term.
In the short term, I am expecting to get about $600 off of my 2003 taxes. That's a benefit.
In the long term, I am expecting to do nicely with dividend and capital gains tax reduction. My SPDR's will continue to build a long term nest. That's a benefit.
said by DonLibes :
In the short term, the refunds will be made by raising taxes elsewhere (state and local governments for starters).
I don't see any tax hikes in for me locally. Elected officials don't last long in office (see Dick Celeste) in Ohio.
said by DonLibes :
But the reality is we don't have the money to give back, so the US is going into debt to provide the tax cuts.
The debt is largely irrelevant. It is a fraction of GDP. US interest rates are incredibly low despite government borrowing.
said by DonLibes :
When the baby boomers start to retire, the US is going to be in deep trouble.
Only if new benefits are awarded them, like free prescription drugs. US demographics are positive. The largest population boom US history (Baby Boom echo) is underway. Coupled with heavy immigration, the population pyramid is in good shape.
»www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200···at_x.htm
There are plenty of future tax payers in America. Contrast with to Japan, Germany, and Italy.
»www.census.gov/ipc/www/idbsum.html
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
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| | | | | | | | | raptorsasd
join:2003-05-23
Wichita, KS
| Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup i agree i dont care who is or was president. i made a little bit of money with bush sr. i was making great cash flow under clinton. i am still making money under bush jr.
you could put ted bundy, marlynn manson, hell even put bozo the clown in as president i will still make a good income and residual income/benifits from all of the things i am in to. | |
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| | | | | | | | |
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@attbi.co
| The United States GDP in 2002 was 11 Trillion Dollars and the national debt is 6 Trillion Dollars
The low interest rates are causing the dollars international presence to drop.
So your SYPDR's won't be doing better anytime soon :P
Economy boosting tax cuts are SHORT TERM (1-2 yrs) and they are paid with GOVERNMENT SPENDING CUTS. | |
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| | | | | | | | Benji21126
join:2002-12-04
Mount Juliet, TN
| The Rich pay most of the income tax? where the heck did you come up with that nonsense?? The "rich" pay less than 1% of income tax, while they control 90% of the money.
lower-middle and middle class pay the majority of the income tax.
what planet you on man???? | |
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@attbi.co | Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup Your wrong buddy i think you got that backwards the top 1% of the income makers in America pay 70% of all income taxes collected in the United States... | |
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SammySam
@attbi.co
| I'm a tax attorney, and I majored in economics in the college days (those were the days...) anyway:
No, acually you or anyone else will from this tax cut.
Since the money to fund this will be borrowed at the effective intrest rate it will be about 1 trillion dollars.
and Acually no the US GDP will not grow by 1000% over the next ten years
thats 10 trillion a year? | |
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SolarPup
IT Geek-Dawg
Premium
join:2002-03-07
The Pound
clubs: | oh give me a f^cking break, those 2 are not at all dishonest. I'd love to see when and how they are. Hell of a lot better than the 2 butt-buddies we had in the whitehouse before. | |
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| | | | | | hijo51
join:2002-02-09
Stone Mountain, GA
|  Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup
The oil contract for who would have been able to take care of any oil-well fires that may exist in Iraq. Was awarded to Halliburton where Dick Cheney was the former CEO.
They didn't go through the NORMAL contract bidding process they just awarded it to Halliburton.
Ok, It's true that Halliburton is recongized for put out oil fires the best.
Ok then lets chose Halliburton.
But instead of just giving them the 4 billion dollars for the fires. The contract included 7 billion dollars of oil contracts that will be awarded to Halliburton.
Then he announced that Halliburton was chosen to put out the fires. Hiding the truth that Halliburton will get Iraqi oil aswell.
He's alot less than honest. | |
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MrTangent
join:2001-12-28
Earth
| Re: The Clinton/Gore Comedy Troup And this Halliburton oil/contract thing is just the tip of the iceberg. It's just the latest in the long lineage of lies and mass deception at the hands of the Bush Administration.
To the original poster who apparently believes everything he sees/reads in the mass media, where are the "weapons of mass destruction" that Bush was using as an excuse for invasion? Convenient that they don't exist, eh, and even more convenient that the majority of American's short-term AND long-term memory regarding various issues is almost non-existent... the neo-conservatives will play on this repeatedly.
I can't even begin to list all the things Bush has done since stealing the election, but this site sums it up. It's not to be taken literally, since it's partially a joke, but the issues are summarized quite nicely.
--
"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength" | |
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adnoctum
Status Woe
join:2003-05-18
Athens, GA | Amen. | |
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|
Orwell 1984
@rr.com
| 120 million emails in 12 hours.If one one thousandth of one pecent buy the product thats 10 sales per hour. I still hate spam and the people who send it.It really is a shame this is one of the biggest (next to adult content) money makers on the internet. | |
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|
MrTangent
join:2001-12-28
Earth
| said by Logan 5 :
"Ronald is an eighth-grade dropout and self-taught computer programmer from Louisiana who makes a killing off of irritating the hell out of others"
and this golden nugget: "This is censorship", claims Scelson, who claims anti-spam vigilantes block customers from getting all of their e-mail. "People still buy this stuff".....*sure* they do Ronald....and Tanya Harding will be the first female President of the United States of America.
Crap is as crap does......especially when you look as foolish as a certain *other* Ronald who also happens to be a Clown.
Someone has to be buying that spam stuff, otherwise these goons wouldn't be financially able to send out the mammoth amount of e-mails they do. Not to mention the sheer inconvenience of having to forge so many e-mail address, finding a new ISP every few weeks as people try to find you and so on. Trust me, even though it's annoying as hell, some of these guys are making a lot of money. P.T. Barnum said, and rightly so, "there's a sucker born every minute" and quite frankly the spammers are finding those suckers. They probably annoy a good million+ for every poor soul they sucker in to buying their crap, but its been documented they're making money and quite a lot of it.
I've come to really be annoyed with spam and spammers because they're peddling generally worthless, fraudulent stuff and are the internet equivalent to (highly annoying) door-to-door salesmen. Add the annoyance factor to the fact that they're causing an unprecedented amount of bandwidth to be eaten up and you have a major problem. Not to mention the sheer number of hours lost having to delete their unwanted crap from our e-mail in-boxes each year.
--
"War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength" | |
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adnoctum
Status Woe
join:2003-05-18
Athens, GA | "Trusting Bush on the stock market is like having a leper give you a facial, it doesn't really work." Robbin Williams, Live on Broadway.
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Ad augusta per angusta | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | "Ronald Scelson" If I were writing a short story, and I had to pick a name that sounded as "loserish" as possible...
"Ronald Scelson" might fit the bill.  | |
|
bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA
·Verizon Online DSL
| The Congress is too slow on this Can't Congress see that the $10 billion (at least) that spam costs companies per year is more than whatever money the spammers earn and pay taxes on? This guy seems to think that he there is a constitutional right to run a business unregulated. No! Spam is commercial speech, and is thus subject to regulation. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: The Congress is too slow on this The problem with legislation is that it's probably only going to affect companies using email advertising in a legitimate manner (ie: asking for permission and honoring requests to be removed). True spammers have already shown their lack of respect for the law and their ability to evade it. So any legislation unless very carefully worded is likely to cost most companies that do business on the internet more money in addition to what they already lose due to spam (which won't stop due to legislation).
What really worries me is that ISP's are getting to the point that they would rather block legitimate internet messages, than let one spam message get thru. At what point does this stop; do we start blocking whole TLD's because we don't want spammers from, say, China to get thru. It's a dangerous road to go down.
Essentially the only solution I see is educating users to not give out addresses (theirs or their friends) to every anonymous website/user that asks for it.
--
Infogrames != Atari | |
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See 18 replies to this post |
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| cableblows3
join:2001-06-17
Indianapolis, IN
| said by bokamba :
Can't Congress see that the $10 billion (at least) that spam costs companies per year is more than whatever money the spammers earn and pay taxes on? This guy seems to think that he there is a constitutional right to run a business unregulated. No! Spam is commercial speech, and is thus subject to regulation.
sorry, but speech is speech! no matter how much it is unwanted or ask for | |
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| |
bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium
join:2002-04-05
Falls Church, VA | Re: The Congress is too slow on this No, commercial speech (advertising) is subject to more restrictions than many other types of speech, such as the press. | |
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| | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| said by cableblows3 :
sorry, but speech is speech! no matter how much it is unwanted or ask for
Wrong. Your right to free speech ends at my front door. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: The Congress is too slow on this said by TheWickerMan :
Wrong. Your right to free speech ends at my front door.
People have a right to free speech but people don't have a right that others must listen to that speech.
--
Saying that Microsoft has a monopoly in Operating Systems because one is too lazy to learn a different OS is like saying that Ford has a monopoly in cars because one is too lazy to find a Honda dealership. | |
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Cheetah9
join:2001-01-07
Bethel Park, PA
|  There is NO WAY to JUSTIFY SPAM !!!!
Spamers are simply getting a free ride, at the expense of the legitimate Internet community. And at the expense of the Internet infrastructure in general.
SPAM costs legitimate users and businesses millions of dollars, maybe even billions, each year. And it's getting worse!
Anything that can be done to end the free ride for these GREEDY FREELOADERS needs to be done. | |
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GTaylor
Premium
join:2002-12-14
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| What's worse - his spam or him being unapologetic What a POS - And that pic! Ugh - dude, take some of your blood money and get some dental work!
Personally I love it when a Spammer has a holier than thou attitude - especially when testifying in front of Congress. Go ahead spammers, flaunt your attitude and see if a tough Anti-Spam legislation isn't passed by the end of the year.
Give Congress a "bad guy" to go after and they'll make you an example... | |
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| raptorsasd
join:2003-05-23
Wichita, KS
| [QUOTE= GTaylor
Give Congress a "bad guy" to go after and they'll make you an example... [/QUOTE]
ummm didnt they have a bad guy called "bill gates" and as i recall he spanked the U.S. Gov. three times in a row. you can give them a bad guy just make sure he isnt richer and more powerful than the government.
spammers must be stopped. i agree but not at the expense of destroying the internet or blocking TLD's. and besides you can stop the ones in this country but what about the ones in other countries that do not regulate or cooperate with U.S. laws???
spam is here to stay i am sad to say. unless it is a fad that dies in time. only way to stop it is be more selective using your email address. get a hotmail account and use it as a fake address that all the spammers hit and not your main one. dont visit porn sites or other sites known to mass email.
also becareful who you attack as you never know that 8 year old that spams you may be the deadliest thing to your way of life. i.e. bank accounts, utilities and so on...
in short tread lightly when you go after these people | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Poor Twisted Ronnie (just like the Metallica tune) Indeed, Mitnick made little, if anything, hacking. That doesn't mean at all that it didn't cost others big bucks.
Mitnick's hacking was the equivalent of random vandalism--costly in the things he broke, costlier still protecting everything from him and his ilk.
I've seen vandals (including taggers) excuse their behavior saying "but I didn't make any money..." That's not the issue--costing other people money and time is.
Calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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sycocowz
join:2002-06-13
Ottsville, PA | Re: Let's do as they do in Utah
*let's pretend I didn't say that to avoid future debate | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Let's do as they do in Utah said by sycocowz :
yeah I read about that.... 'firing squad' pfft I thought we were a civilized country*
You're right... a firing squad is too good for this SOB. Let's use the guillotine.
--
Saying that Microsoft has a monopoly in Operating Systems because one is too lazy to learn a different OS is like saying that Ford has a monopoly in cars because one is too lazy to find a Honda dealership. | |
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| | | 
crowbar9
join:2003-04-21
Hyde Park, NY
| Re: Let's do as they do in Utah said by pnh102 :
said by sycocowz :
yeah I read about that.... 'firing squad' pfft I thought we were a civilized country*
You're right... a firing squad is too good for this SOB. Let's use the guillotine.
Can we make sure the blade is dull? I would not want it to be painless! | |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL | I volunteer !
I already know the script!
Ready!
Aim!
FIRE! | |
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rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL | A room full of buttheads that's saying something, when you are in a room full of Senators and you are the most hated person there. | |
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BiG_Lou
join:2003-04-20
Yonkers, NY
·Optimum Online
| interesting... Well I think we can all agree that spam is annoying, but I don't know about illegal...Think of all the junk mail (REAL mail, mind you) that we get. Do we go after these companies for sending us junk mail? E-mail is computer based mail. I personally don't think it should have any different regulations from real-life mail. Not that I don't find spam the most annoying thing online, but if I felt that, say, all Texans (randomly selected...don't kick me with your spurs, please!) were annoying, does that give me the right to make a law and get rid of them? Personally, I would like to see Congre$$ force all spam companies to actually remove me from their mailing lists within 24 hrs of my request. I have tried many times, but I have repeatedly recieved the same emails over and over again. This, I feel is harassment, which IS against the law. I would love to see companies shut down for this type of harassment...maybe that would send a message to other companies involved in spamming operations. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon so that we might actually see a slowdown of spam (hey I can dream, can't I?) | |
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See 14 replies to this post |
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joecap
join:2003-05-22
Palo Alto, CA | So who gives him Internet service? So who gives Ronald Scelson Internet service that
permits him to spam?
If Ronald isn't disconnected from the net, his service
provider should be. | |
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| Jon_Hanson
Mountain Dew Rules
Premium
join:2001-07-09
Gilbert, AZ
| Re: So who gives him Internet service? He doesn't send the spam through his own connection. That would surely get his connection terminated. No, he utilizes people who are clueless about security and set up open proxies to relay his mail through. Nearly all spam I receive comes from an open proxy somewhere. | |
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| | joecap
join:2003-05-22
Palo Alto, CA | Re: So who gives him Internet service? I realize that. And the last time I looked it
was already against the law to misappropriate
someone elses computer equipment. Is anyone
enforcing this? | |
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| |
| | joecap
join:2003-05-22
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: So who gives him Internet service? Money. Yes, money.
Well if an ISP is profiting from this, it is all the more
reason to shut off their connection or at least their email and/or the ports involved in exploiting open relays.
There are only so many major carriers. Why aren't they enforcing thier own agreements with the ISP's they let onto the net?
Oh yeah, money. Where is the incentive for them to do this, even if they supposedly have it in their agreements?
So if anyone has the interest to find out which agreements were violated and are only selectively enforced, then it makes a civil case against the people who allow it, right?
In other words, we all signed up to behave well and understand that that is part of the service we get. The providers at some level are negligent and we all suffer.
As long as they have money, it can be made to work. | |
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| | |
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: So who gives him Internet service? said by joecap :
Well if an ISP is profiting from this, it is all the more
reason to shut off their connection or at least their email and/or the ports involved in exploiting open relays.
Who exactly shuts them off? The imaginary sovereign state of the internet? IETF? NATO? Network Solutions? Who?
No one has absolute control of the internet, about all you can do is regulate your part, and shut out everyone else; but then again that defeats the internet's purpose doesn't it?
--
Infogrames != Atari | |
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adnoctum
Status Woe
join:2003-05-18
Athens, GA
| do not invite the government in I hate spamming, there is no justification for it and the people who perpetuate it are complete losers and general annoyances. BUT I can not stomach the government involving itself in yet another aspect of our lives. I would rather be annoyed then be another step closer to government regulation. It is easy to give power, that is the basis of a constitution, it is quite another to get that power back.
--
Qui tacet consentit | |
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patent
join:2001-01-15
Chesterfield, MO
| Re: do not invite the government in said by adnoctum :
I hate spamming.... BUT I can not stomach the government involving itself in yet another aspect of our lives. I would rather be annoyed then be another step closer to government regulation....
You obviously are not on as many spam lists as I am. At work I had to change my e-mail address because of the volume of spam I was getting. Now the new one is starting to get lots of spam. These people are costing me time and money. I would support government death squads killing the spammers.
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"The patent system added the fuel of interest to the fire of genius" - A. Lincoln | |
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adnoctum
Status Woe
join:2003-05-18
Athens, GA
| Re: do not invite the government in I sympathize with your frustration. I am lucky enough not to have to use email on a professional basis. I wish that we, the citizen, could take action independent of the government to stop or slow down spamming. I just worry, with more and more regulations levied upon is and the horror story of the US Patriot Act, that this is another opportunity for the legislative branch to burden us with more broad, pork laden regulation that probably won’t work.
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Qui tacet consentit | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: do not invite the government in said by adnoctum :
...that this is another opportunity for the legislative branch to burden us with more broad, pork laden regulation that probably won't work.
Probably won't work?!!? I can assure you it won't work. Spam regulation would be along the lines of a new law that forces drug cartels to obey OSHA regulations and file taxes.
--
Infogrames != Atari | |
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adnoctum
Status Woe
join:2003-05-18
Athens, GA | Re: do not invite the government in yeah, good point too. | |
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rosmini
join:2000-05-03
Albuquerque, NM | Maybe the usps should be put in charge of the emai Maybe the usps should be put in charge of the email then we could have it be a federal offense | |
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DSLTech
join:2000-12-30
San Jose, CA
| Spam is here to stay. Deal with it. Its part of the cost of the Internet. Plain and simple.
We've created this thing, now we need to live with it.
When companies were being driven out of business by "dot com" versions, did they sue and complain? No its not the same, I know, BUT the Internet does simplify everyone's ability to access data, and that data can be YOUR information.
Those companies that HOLD YOUR INFORMATION are responsible for not protecting you. Email addresses should not be accessible on some readily available database. However, if they are then spamming is simply another means of advertisement. Nobody likes to sit through stupid commercials and ads while watching tv, listening to the radio or going through a newspaper or magazine, right? This is just something that we are going to have to deal with in order to enjoy the benefits of the media.
I deal with people on the phone trying to sell me stuff on almost a daily basis. Mostly long-distance telephone carriers or credit card companies trying to hitch me onto some program or another. Its all part of having a telephone.
Now, this is not to say that we can't fight spam via technological innovations. Email/SMTP might need some sort of security/auth update so that you only need to deal with legitimate emails. Perhaps software that monitors email patterns, or a Request/Ack process that each person who's not on your contacts/address book list has to go through before they can be approved to send you email. This is not too hard to enforce and implement. The initial contact would NOT be an email, but a secure request for granting email sending priviledges to your box. Etc Etc Etc. | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Re: Spam is here to stay. Deal with it. SMTP has had this for a long time: it's called STARTTLS; certificate-based authentication. The problem is that spammers will just generate certs after every Email they send, so it doesn't do all that much good without some higher intervention -- hence lawsuits, proposed federal bills, etc.
Sadly, I completely and entirely disagree that spam is "part of the Internet." I resided happily during the early days of post-Arpanet ('90-91); there was no "spam." If you said "spam," you were referring to either the physical product or a Monty Python skit. The Internet "worked" then without spam, and it sure as hell can work now without it.
Did "we" -- as in the general inhabitants of residences and owners of telephone services -- demand and create telemarketing calls? Absolutely. I most definitely remember saying to my immediate family, my peers, and the occasional Schmoe on the street: "HEY! Wouldn't it be a blast if we had some random schmuck trying to push a product down our throats while we're in the middle of dinner? What a fantastic idea! It's so fantastic, it should become a pre-requisite to owning a telephone!"
Simply owning a mailbox or P.O. box does not warrant me receiving thousands of unsolicited newspaper advertisements (complete with coupons!) either.
It's all unsolicited, which means it's unwarranted, which means it's essentially rape. I'm out on a limb with that comparison, but it's to the point where it needs to dealt with in the same manner. Spammers do what they do because there's nothing in the way of them doing it -- that doesn't make it right, fair, moral, nor legal.
If you think I'm blowing hot air, check this out. The video pretty much sums up the attitude of spammers: and it's one that needs to be squashed.
(Ed.: Added TechTV MPEG link)
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Making life hard for others since 1977.
[text was edited by author 2003-05-23 06:13:03] | |
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DSLTech
join:2000-12-30
San Jose, CA
| Re: Spam is here to stay. Deal with it. Thanks for the info on STARTTLS .. looks like it hasnt really been developed for mainstream, and I dont see how a spammer could generate valid certs when you're manually accepting/denying cert requests.
Remember, these would be REQUESTS to be added to a "certified" list, and each email someone would send TO you would have to contain the proper init sequence, which would be very long and impossible to break.
We CAN protect our email system but I don't think ISPs really want to do that, or they wont be able to spam their own customers, as I know very well that they do. | |
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cewyatt
join:2001-07-24
Atlanta, GA
| No open relays! How about a law requiring no open mail relays? That would take care of most SPAM since they rely upon open relays for a lot of their crap. Then have a way to detect whether incoming mail is from a system that has an open relay: if true, the email is blocked. They want their mail to go through they have to close their relay to outside use. Better yet, doesn't even have to be a law, just have all legitimate mail servers close their relays, add some code to the servers to check incoming mail to see if it is coming from a system with open relays, and block any mail that is so. Eventually, with valid customers complaining that their mail isn't going through, lame-ass system administrators will learn to close their systems. Most of the problem is from lame-ass SAs who don't know how to configure their equipment or just don't care. All of the open relays on Chinese servers can just be blocked permanently. If they want to participate in the internet, they can close their freakin' systems.
OK, that takes care of probably 90% of SPAM, the remaining 10% that comes from greedy ISPs who sell their soul to the spamming demons can just be blocked easily. | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Learn to use your computer and you wouldn't have spam.
Why do we attack the spammers for making a living taking advantadge of stupid people? Stupid people are taken advantadge of in other ways that are perfectly legal..casinos, fairs, Amway just to name a few. There is no difference.
If you are too stupid to NOT give your email out, properly code it on your webpage, and use an email address that is prone to dictionary attack, join websites that share your information you deserve ALL the spam you get in your inbox.
These people have chosen a way of making money. That is their freedom. They change the email headers because internet-vigilanties block their domains.
If you are too stupid to realize that the dealership that sold you your car really has no purpose for your email address, then you should be swamped in spam. The fact of the matter is that people actually buy the stuff that is spammed to them. It's supply and demand.
Now, it does need regulated. If you want to spam, then spam away. But stop spamming blindly. I don't have tits, why would I want to make them bigger.
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
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linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·CenturyTel Inc.
| Good spam? The only good spam I ever received had this subject line:
"This is a one time only mailing" The first paragraph explained the message was unsolicited and that if I did not respond to their offer I would never hear from them again. I didn't; they didn't; end of spam.
If every UCE sender operated in this fashion it would mow down junk mail to a manageable level in a hurry. Unfortunately, you have ignorant bozo's like Ronald, and immoral schmucks who think everyone wants to receive mail about teen whores.
My ISP refuses to filter mail. They don't give a shit how much I get (300-400 daily) or what the content is. The excuse is some clients complain if they don't get it. I sent a few of the nastiest mails I got to the tech. His response was to block my mail to him at the server. Ain't that special?? He can block my mail, but this asshole won't filter. What's wrong with this picture??? I've never considered Spam Cop before, but I think they need to be blacklisted until they learn to filter.
Cheers! | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | Re: Good spam? Why should your ISP put more man hours and more money into equipment because you can't use your computer properly?
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
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linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State | Re: Good spam? I don't know why you think I can't use my computer. The ISP is an open relay and fifty percent of the UCE is in an alien language. | |
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ExchangeMan
join:2002-04-10
Mokena, IL
clubs:
| Workaround Until We Get Meaninful Laws Who knows if we will ever get meaningful laws to deal with this. What I do is have several email accounts. I have a personal email account with a domain I host that I give to friends or trusted companies. This one gets little to no spam.
I then have a couple of Hotmail accounts that I use for giving to a company for example for software I want to evaluate. Sometimes they need to send you a key so I use it for that purpose. This email address I could care less if they spam the crap out of. It collects about 200 spam messages per week. I just go in there every now and then and just delete everything in the inbox without opening the contents of any of the messages.
This technique has worked well for me the last couple of years. Be careful even giving your email address to friends. They might sign you up for something you don't want as a joke not realizing or caring about the ramifications. | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Re: Workaround Until We Get Meaninful Laws Well looky, someone who has taken the time on how to prevent spam, use his computer, and gets the point. If there are two of us here that can do it, so can the rest of the world.
Once again, there is no reason what so ever to spend more government manhours and money to stop spam from getting sent to idiots.
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
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Aladrin
Code Junkie
join:2001-01-25
Clermont, FL
| Not giving away your email address... Not giving your email address out on the internet would be good, except that you could NEVER sign up for anything, ever. After 6 years of the same email address (and let's face who, who WANTS to change?) I get a torrent of SPAM. My solution was to join SpamGourmet.com! I added my friends to my trusted list and then forwarded my address to a spamgourmet one, then back to one that has NEVER seen the light of day. It works very very well.
I opened it up for 5 letters the other day because I was expected something immediately and I had the 2 I expected and 3 SPAM within 5 minutes.
Prior to this, I had to spend about about 20 minutes of my day complaining to ISPs about their spammers to keep SPAM under control. (It started at about an hour each day.) | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Re: Not giving away your email address... You can't give out your email? Then create a hotmail account for that.
Who wants to change their email address? Why is it such a heartache to change your email address? Would you stop from moving into a new home because you don't want to change your home address? Would you not move into a new home because you don't want to change your phone number?
Of course not. Then why is changing your email address like getting a root canal for you? It is simply and address. No different than a home address, no different than a phone number.
What really bothers me is that you'll spend 20 minutes out of your day bitching to ISP's but you won't take 20 minutes out of your day to learn how to avoid spam.
You have issues.
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
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| | TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| Re: Not giving away your email address... said by Wills :
What really bothers me is that you'll spend 20 minutes out of your day bitching to ISP's but you won't take 20 minutes out of your day to learn how to avoid spam.
That's the best way to avoid spam -- get the spammer's account cancelled so they can't spam anymore.
said by Wills :
You have issues.
Pot, meet Kettle. | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Re: Not giving away your email address... How do you figure Pot, meet Kettle?
And no, the best way to avoid spam isn't to get the spammer's account cancelled so they can't spam anyone. Most ISP's won't cancel the account anyways.
The best ways to combat spam are to not give out your address. Sign up for a free email account to use if you have to. Properly code your email address if it has to be displayed on webpages and don't use addresses that are prone to dictionary attack.
Trying to get the spammers account cancelled is worthless as 1. it's probably a highjacked account, 2. IF the headers are valid to begin with. So you have wasted 20 minutes calling that ISP that could have been used to set up your system properly.
Pot, meet moron.
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
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