 
bky
time to kick ass and chew bubble gum
Premium
join:2002-07-05
Austin, TX | DIE! KILL THE SPAMMERS! | |
|  | 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: DIE! Good move, Spammer fools!
Switch your annoying, un-ethical but still mostly legal tactics of Spamming over to tactics that are completely illegal, and drum up more opposition.... now there's something people can *prosecute* you for....
Somewhere out there is some P.O.'ed prosecutor who's tired of being spammed with Porn and Viagra ads and now you've given him his chance to whoop some ass.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | | bigbeartech
Goo?
join:2001-09-23
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: DIE! Except spammers often use stolen credit cards, false information, and other tactics to spam, as was noted with the earthlink spammer. Of course the earthlink spammer was nailed.
That and some spammers live outside the US
--
guycad: It may take you days and large clumps of hair to get it to work,CyberSchnook:I am so screwed--I haven't had large clumps of hair for years.  | |
| | | | 
Gyzm0
Phear My Hand Cannon
join:2003-03-15
Grand Prairie, TX
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: DIE! said by bigbeartech  :
That and some spammers live outside the US
Haven't you heard The U.S. can tell any one what to do
--
"You can run....but you only die tired" | |
| | | | 
Geoducky
@attbi.com
| Actually I wonder why more people don't refer spammers to the FBI... I bet 99% of spammers have commited one or more of:
credit card fraud
tax fraud
mail fraud
phone fraud
identity theft
falsification of internet domain records (they ALL do this)
I had my credit card number stolen once, and a spammer used it to register several domain names and setup web hosting accounts.
I don't even see why services like Osirusoft or SPEWS exist. The typical spammer sets up valid ISP accounts (with false personal information), spams like hell for a couple weeks (voilating ToS), and moves on to the next ISP. Even if the ISP intends NOT to harbour spammers, they can be repeatedly blacklisted. | |
| | | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: DIE! cause their outside the US, we should find them and use our missles on them rather then stuff in the middle east. spammers are a threat to national security and our economy if they can overwelm corperate mail servers with spam.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | | Salamander
join:2002-10-15
CH
| said by Geoducky:
Actually I wonder why more people don't refer spammers to the FBI... I bet 99% of spammers have commited one or more of:
...
Because damages less than 50KUS per instance doesn't show on their radar screen (you are not worth their time).
said by Geoducky:
I don't even see why services like Osirusoft or SPEWS exist. The typical spammer sets up valid ISP accounts (with false personal information), spams like hell for a couple weeks (voilating ToS), and moves on to the next ISP. Even if the ISP intends NOT to harbour spammers, they can be repeatedly blacklisted.
This has been my chief complaint against blacklists for ages. They nail too many innocents. | |
| | | | | | |
David Pinnegar
@213.78.x.x
| I hate spammers and stopping them by providing the »www.antespam.co.uk costs me a lot of time. But I hate the blacklists - they are generally unreliable and Osirusoft has been one of the worst and deserves to have collapsed. Of the others »www.spamcop.net is the best and is founded upon valid algorithms.
I stop spam using a modified content filtering system and it is eminently more successful than any Blacklist can be. We usually achieve 1 in 10,000 accuracy. The whole of the discussion about Osirusoft is irrelevant - other than spamcop.net, no-one should be entrusting their email delivery to IP blacklist based systems.
YOurs sincerely
David Pinnegar BSc ARCS | |
| 
Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
·Cogeco Cable
| Criminal Matter An attack of this magnitude should DEFINITELY be a criminal matter and be investigated by the authorities. Public awareness of this issue is tantamount if we are to stop this from happening again. People need to understand how this temp victory to the spammers affects all of us. | |
| | 
chanur
Premium
join:2001-02-26
Colorado Springs, CO
| Re: Criminal Matter I have long had a question that has been bugging me.
When I want to stop something from happening that is irritating me, and there is an intermediary, I go to the source. The people who buy these adds should begin to suffer the punishment. It seems they would be eminently more traceable (after all, they are trying to sell something). Is it the volume of spam purchasers that prevents this? When I get junk mail (a lot of course) I am irritated at those who send it - not the spammer but the seller of product. Is it a free speech issue? We seem to be getting around that with no-call lists. | |
| | | 
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | Re: Criminal Matter You would be suprised at the amount of people who are exempt from no-call lists. | |
| | | | 
bhhurd
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Korea | Re: Criminal Matter I tell telephone solicitors two things:
"Take me off your list!"
and
"We do not respond to ANY telephone solicitations."
Then I hang up. | |
| | | | |
Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Criminal Matter But the very fact that you answered the phone number they dialed makes someone, somewhere money which means they will continue to do it. The same goes for spam mail, even those 'F.O.A.D spammer' responses are counted as a 'contact' in many cases. | |
| | | | |
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| Studies have shown that even if you request them to take you off their list, they will say they did, then just slide your phone number to the next representative. I dare you to ask for company information, and see what type of stone-walling they give you, or fake information they tell you is true. By Federal law they have to identify themselves by their first and last names, and the company they are claiming to represent. I would venture from what I was able to extrapolate from the research done, about 1 in 10 numbers are actually removed upon customer request. Probably more when the lawyers give them a talking to, and definately more when they receive their first $10,000 fine.
Oh, and just as a side note, they don't have to buy the no-call list, that is purely voluntary; at least in Indiana (the allegedly strictest no call-list rules & penalties in the US).
--
Upgraded eTower733i, 512MB PC133,PCI GeForce MX440 64MB, Onboard Sound, 2 x 20GB HD. "If it still does what you need it to, it's not outdated". | |
| | | | | | 
broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:
| Re: Criminal Matter said by ctceo :
Studies have shown that even if you request them to take you off their list, they will say they did, then just slide your phone number to the next representative.
Having been a telemarketer for a long six weeks once, I can tell you that most telemarketers are people just trying to feed their families and have no other choice except to take such a degrading job. Degrading due to the abuse that they must accept from people on the other end of the line. We were not allowed to become abusive ourselves, but when the customer cussed and ranted we were required to remain on the line until they ended the call. Also, if a customer requested to be removed from the list we complied by marking their record. As to the disposition of the record beyond that, the agent had no control, but the company was required by law to remove them from the database.
If you do receive a call from a telemarketer, just politely request to be removed from the list. | |
| | | | | | | 
ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
 ·Vonage
·EarthLink
| Re: Criminal Matter said by broknsymetry :
said by ctceo :
Studies have shown that even if you request them to take you off their list, they will say they did, then just slide your phone number to the next representative.
Having been a telemarketer for a long six weeks once, I can tell you that most telemarketers are people just trying to feed their families and have no other choice except to take such a degrading job. Degrading due to the abuse that they must accept from people on the other end of the line. We were not allowed to become abusive ourselves, but when the customer cussed and ranted we were required to remain on the line until they ended the call. Also, if a customer requested to be removed from the list we complied by marking their record. As to the disposition of the record beyond that, the agent had no control, but the company was required by law to remove them from the database.
If you do receive a call from a telemarketer, just politely request to be removed from the list.
Been there, tried that.
Worse offenders are the Telco's followed by loan sharks (oppps, I mean Credit Card companies). MCI is the worse telco followed by AT&T. Citibank is the worse Credit Card company. They claim they've removed you but you get another call the very next week. I tried to report MCI to the feds but if you can't get the number (the telemarketers are very good at blocking phone numbers) you don't have a case. You need the persons name, name of company, phone number they called from, time of day each incident occured and the phone number they called to. WTF.
So now I use Telezapper (there is a god after all (-; ) and if I see "Blocked", "Private" or "Out of Area" I let the answering machine pick up.
Finally, after two years I think they got the message. I may get one or two a month now. | |
| | | | | | | 
twd660
join:2001-06-06
Huntington, WV
·Comcast
| Listen, i lived in huntinton WV. there r 3 or 4 call centers ther, our mayor give these people a no tax credit for a certain number of years , to try and bring up the un-employment rate , but after that time wheres off these companies move again , leaving more people without jobs.
i lived there i know frpm the real world! | |
| | | | | | 
masterpjz9
join:2000-10-14
Peabody, MA
| said by ctceo :
Oh, and just as a side note, they don't have to buy the no-call list, that is purely voluntary; at least in Indiana (the allegedly strictest no call-list rules & penalties in the US).
Well I know in Massachusetts, if you are on the No Call list and they call you, they can get fined if you report them. This list is not voluntary | |
| |
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| Good Luck getting that to work.
As far as having been a TM at one time myself as well, I know where you are coming from. Just another point when it comes to how bad the job market is now'a'days.
I am constantly telling the same organizations, or people representing them to stop calling me. So far I have had to request a phone tap 4 months in a row to maintain active and accurate records of who calls from where and when, and take 3 Bill collection companies to small claims in the past 12 months. About half of the calls are from automated systems that for one reason call and then hang up when you answer, yet they are still in operation 12 months later, after litigation from me. The bill collectors aren't even calling for me, they are calling for somebody that I've never heard of, and when asked for their First/Last name & the company they represent, they insist that I don't need that information for one reason or another, and that is when they usually hang up on me, only to call back later that week, using a different rep. on Sunday at 6AM.
besides that as far as I'm aware I have only 2 Debts, My new computer, & Next months fiscal expenditures for the home office.
--
Upgraded eTower733i, 512MB PC133,PCI GeForce MX440 64MB, Onboard Sound, 2 x 20GB HD. "If it still does what you need it to, it's not outdated". | |
| | | | |
Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Criminal Matter said by JakCrow:
Eh hem. Osirusoft is run off someone's DSL line. The "magnitude" of this attack could be 2 compromised Windows boxes. WOW,
The attack went out for well over a month and the Osirusoft list helped many organizations (ie: my company) filter LOTS of unnecessary mail on a daily basis, now we have to deal with increased processing loads and customer complaints because most of the mail that was previously filtered by Osirusoft is now getting through....that costs us real money as it has for many others I would imagine. | |
| | | | | | | | |
Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Criminal Matter It was far more then 2-3 machines, anyway if you are attempting to defend DoS attacks based on size you've lost quite a bit of credibility in my eyes already. And btw, spews and osirusoft are two different lists, we didn't reject mail based on spews, we rejected mail based on queries to relays.osirusoft.com and that was a very respectable list.
Regardless, I've wasted too much time reading your uninformed blather so troll on. | |
| | | | | | | |
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| Massachusetts
Chapter 265 of the Acts of 2002
Section 2, Subsection ii, Sentence 5
" The office shall update such listing not less than quarterly and shall make such listing available to telephone solicitors and other persons for a fee as the office shall prescribe. "
According to MA State No-Call registry (not the federal no call list) the list is prescribed, on a per fee basis, and if a solicitor chooses not to purchase that list, so be it.
HOWEVER they are still held liable for any infraction caused as a result of soliciting in violation of said Local or Federal Law (Telephone Consumer Protection Act, 47 U.S.C. s.227; 47 C.F.R. s. 64.)
---
--
SuperMicro P4QH6 w/Quad Xeon 3.06Ghz, Gainward FX Ultra 1600 AGP 8x Video 256 DDR, 1GB DDR memory, DVD-RW, Audigy II Sound, 180GB SATA Hard Drive, 27" Flat Panel. It may be a bit much, but it was free! | |
| 
DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| "Revenge is a dish best served cold, and it is very cold in [cyber]space."
Ha, ha, sorry, thought the line was funny.
Seriously, it is now up to the people getting spammed to give it right back to the people dishing this out.
If they are trying to bring down our protection from spam, then that means war, and war is what they are going to get.
Bring on the hackers!
--
The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. | |
| 
banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| This is severe Wow...this issue has been playing havoc with our corporate e-mail server for the past 48 hours. We use a filtering system that utilizes the Osirusoft blacklist and it's been spotty for days -- incoming mail's been getting stuck in the queue and never arriving. We're in hot water with our clients because of it, because it's been looking like we've been ignoring them.
The problem was complicated by the new IT guy we had hired who turned out to not be very resourceful, I guess -- he never had a clue what was going on and apparently ignored the problem. He was "let go" this morning.
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
| | 
Pz_
join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs: | Re: This is severe I've been suffering from the reverse. Customers are complaining about not getting e-mail, when it shows delivered on our side. | |
| | | | |
banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| Re: This is severe said by broknsymetry :
I can understand dismissing someone for ignoring a problem, but as far as not having knowledge of an issue that was just reported...
Well, I may have made it seem like upper management canned him for not knowing about Osirusoft, which isn't true. He'd been slacking for a while now. Which was the problem -- no matter what was wrong, he didn't seem to want to do anything about it. Would ignore direct requests and go to lunch while he was supposed to be supervising people.
But yeah, I don't think much of anybody really knew about Osirusoft until today.
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
| | | | | | 
91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | This explains why I am getting bounced mails with that name in the header whenever I tried to e-mail one of my friends last night. I can't get ANY mail through to him--it all bounces now. | |
| | | | |
banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| Re: This is severe said by JakCrow :
Perhaps you should have let him know your mail server was configured using blocklists.
Oh, he knew we were using blocklists. We even suggested to him that that might have had something to do with the problems we were having, but he dismissed the possibility without checking it.
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
| | |
Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: See related Slashdot article... Yes Joe did do that and I agree with him, this raised awareness of this issue that he probably wouldn't have gotten if he'd just turned it off and disappeared. As others elsewhere had noted, this attack would not have been possible were it not for lax security of the networks involved and, to some extend, the lax security of home users so kudos to Joe for mashing everyone's face (including mine) into it.
We use (well I guess used) Osirusoft and we too were temporarily affected by this blanket blacklist but we figured it out really quickly (along with the help of his message in the bounce, 'Stop using Osirusoft...') and although it did somewhat impact us I do not bear ANY hardfeelings against Joe AT ALL. In my opinion he did the right thing given the circumstances. | |
| russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
|  Good riddance to a bad blocklist.
Mail delivery on the net will probably get a lot more reliable as a result of the end of this list, whose admins had the philosophy of a hostage taker: "Accede to my demands or your e-mail gets it!". | |
| |
Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Good riddance to a bad blocklist. said by russotto:
I doubt any list this guy is involved with will be trusted by too many administrators after that, at least not for a while.
I'm one admin that still trusts Joe and I work alongside of quite a few others that do as well.
said by russotto:
Mail delivery on the net will probably get a lot more reliable as a result of the end of this list,
Well except for that thing where mail servers and queues are flooded with unnecessary mail that no one wants. | |
| | 
reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
| quote:
Mail delivery on the net will probably get a lot more reliable as a result of the end of this list, whose admins had the philosophy of a hostage taker: "Accede to my demands or your e-mail gets it!".
With no laws about spam, how else are the anti-spam folks to stop spam? And spammers do a lot worse than threats. | |
| | Mythicman
join:2003-04-15
Lithonia, GA
edited
| So, what you're saying is that I shouldn't be able to subscribe to blacklists if I want to block spam?
You do realize that 75% (or so) of spam is relayed through unsecured mail servers? That the most importand puropse of RBLs (relay blackhole lists) are to keep unsecured relays from being able to send SPAM? That, if you have a mail server on the public net, and don't secure it so it's not an open relay, your mail deserves to be blocked, as any admin worth his salt should be able to secure his mail server (and if not, what else is he going to let through - viruses, worms, etc.?)? That an open mail server placed on the public net WILL be spammed through in under 36 hours (I've tested this personally). That 50% of ISPs subscribe to such lists (which is why it hurts so much to get listed)? That you WON'T get listed unless you are an open relay (seen this happen - at the ISP I worked for, we had a server get on the list, we were all damned sure it wasn't open for relay, but it turned out that a flag got changed and opened it up)?
IT IS MY RIGHT TO CONTROL WHO SEND EMAILS TO MY NETWORK!! If I chose to subscribe to these lists (I currently subscribe to MAPS RBL, and did to ORBS - before Above.Net null-routed it a couple of years ago) by god I will subscribe to lists.
Funny, I've never missed a legit email.
These guys do a service to the internet community (for FREE I might add) which helps a lot of folks kill spam. Perhaps this isn't the perfect solution, but the perfect solution doesn't yet exist, and probably never will.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 15:24:48] | |
| | | 
aggiejy
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Wimberley, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
| Re: Good riddance to a bad blocklist. Of course you wont miss emails... you're subscribing to blacklists... not on one. The problem comes when the blacklist owners fail to resolve complaints with a sender's ISP, and out of rage... block the whole block of IPs rather than just a few.
Happend to me when I was hosting with theplanet.com (a very large and upstanding host). I had a dedicated server there, but because someone in my same IP range got reported for spamming, my server was added to the list too. There were no open relays on my mail server, yet I (and my customers hosting with me) were not getting email. I had to move my servers to another clean IP range (which was a hassle)... but I know that it can happen again.
So... blacklists may be useful, but if there is no standard of when/how/why you blacklist someone... it does more harm than good. If all blacklists checked for was open relays, it wouldn't be an issue... of course open relays should be banned.
There is two sides to the issue. | |
| | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| said by Mythicman :
So, what you're saying is that I shouldn't be able to subscribe to blacklists if I want to block spam?
You do realize that 75% (or so) of spam is relayed through unsecured mail servers? That the most importand puropse of RBLs (relay blackhole lists) are to keep unsecured relays from being able to send SPAM?
You do realize that THIS list did more than that. It also blocked any network suspected of hosting a spammer -- entire /8s in some cases. As well as blocking anyone who objected too loudly to his policies. Blocking /0 was actually pretty much a logical extension
quote:
Funny, I've never missed a legit email.
How would you know? | |
|
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | And people say SPAM has no cost.... Uh huh. Tell it to these guys right here. | |
| | |
See 13 replies to this post | |
pleekmo
Triptoe Through The Tulips
Premium
join:2001-09-14
Manchester, CT
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service
| RICO I think that if the ones responsible for this attack are caught that they ought to be RICO'd and sent to the penitentiary for a very long time.
If this is a DDoS attack then somewhere there ought to be some zombies which ought to give up some clues to the generator of this attack. Likewise, if the attack is not distributed, then it should be even more easy to track down the perpetrators.
And speaking of distributed, perhaps it's time to create a distributed network of RBLs, as one person elsewhere noted. (In other words, this is not my own idea and I take no credit for it but merely comment upon it here where the idea may receive more exposure.)
--
Only in America if it takes too long for a killer to die, you can't execute him that way and if it took less than 30 seconds for the victim to die then you can't use capital punishment against the killer. What a country... | |
| | Myrrdin
join:2003-02-13
Atlantis
clubs:
| Re: RICO Most spam filters can check an incoming message against multiple servers like osirusoft, spamcop, maps RBL and others.
If one server is unresponsive, it will just check it against the others so you will still get your email.
XWALL, MDaemon, Merak and many others support this type of configuration. | |
|
bhhurd
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Korea | RICO yes!! | |
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Simply amazing... The RIAA has done some "questionable" things in the past. What has Osirusoft done wrong?
Also, the Boston Tea Party, the American Revolution, the burning of draft cards, blocking the steps of the Supreme Court, etc. are also illegal and forms of protest. While someone might get arrested for it, they still have the right to protest. | |
| | | 
Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
 ·Site5.com
| Re: Simply amazing... said by moonpuppy :
The RIAA has done some "questionable" things in the past. What has Osirusoft done wrong?
It all depends on your idea of "questionable". Abortion doctors being killed by assassins is a similar issue. To some people, they are bringing a service to the community. To others, death. Does that mean people have a right to shoot them because they find abortion doctors actions "questionable"? I don't think so.
quote:
Also, the Boston Tea Party, the American Revolution, the burning of draft cards, blocking the steps of the Supreme Court, etc. are also illegal and forms of protest. While someone might get arrested for it, they still have the right to protest.
I agree. Those people who have attacked or defaced sites like Osirusoft or the RIAA should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Illegal forms of protest are still just that....illegal.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
| | |
|
|
Osirusoft MIA?
·
·
See related Slashdot article...
Simply amazing...