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story category Uncappers Day in Court
Indicted Ohio offenders get diverse punishment
(old news - 12:30PM Friday Sep 26 2003)
tags: legal · cable
Ohio cable modem uncappers who were greeted by FBI agents on their doorstop last year receive varying degrees of punishment. -

As we reported last fall, when you uncap your cable modem (increase downstream speeds via software modification), you can expect some retaliation by your cable provider. That's usually some nasty letters, a service disconnection, or charges resulting in a semi-steep fine if criminal charges are pushed. What several broadband customers of Buckeye Cable Systems in Ohio didn't expect, is a visit from the FBI and a hellish trip through the Ohio legal system.

Paul Shryock, vice president of information technology at Buckeye, discovered that twenty three subscribers had managed to uncap their modems and were getting more than they were paying for. According to Shyrock, one subscriber "altered his modem to handle 100 megabits per second, up and downstream", speeds that aren't really possible - but we digress.

Shyrock then used some questionable calculations to place a hefty price-tag on the theft of service, and was somehow able to get the FBI involved in a case their computer crimes division usually wouldn't touch. Of the 23 who were to be served search warrants, 17 actually received visits from the FBI and local law enforcement. Seven wound up being indicted by the local grand jury and wound eventually face fifth degree felony charges.

One of those customers was Brandon Wirtz, a young entrepreneur who wound up face to face with FBI agents and local authorities. We interviewed Wirtz this past January, and were amazed by the lengths investigators were going at the behest of Buckeye. Wirtz not only wound up facing hundreds of thousands in fines, legal fees, and lost revenue, but investigators wound up confiscating the majority of the electronics in his home; much of which had little to do with the actual uncapping.

Investigators confiscated PC's belonging to both Wirtz and his roommate, as well as any gear they could get their hands on, including copies of Windows XP and Visual Studio, an ATMEL Smart Card Writer, and his VCR. According to Wirtz, investigators even briefly considered confiscating his X-box gaming console.

Wirtz, a Windows Media application developer, claims he lost hundreds of thousands in software revenue while he battled the legal system and attempted to reclaim lost hardware (much of which contained his work and client contacts). Eventually he wound up agreeing to pay $3200 in Restitution, $300 for a "diversion program" class, and forty hours of community service. Another offender wound up settling to the tune of $30,000, and others still walked away without paying a dime.

Here's where the story gets interesting however.

The Block family, one of the wealthiest in the region, controls several major area newspapers (including The Toledo Blade), one of the area's television stations (TV5 Toledo), a dial up provider, Buckeye Cable, and much more. As such, their control over the political system in the area is considerable.

According to locals, one of the family's least favorite people has long been George Runner, a former Lucas County assistant prosecutor. Runner had long been disliked by the Block clan and local lawmakers because they thought him to be "overly secretive" in cases he prosecuted for the county, says one area resident.

Runner was at one point accused of stealing county supplies (including items such as packets of coffee), an act which was caught on videotape by a hidden camera. Unfortunately for prosecutors, the camera was placed illegally and the charges were dropped; the resulting embarrassment forcing the resignation of village police chief Lance Martin.

Ironically enough, Runner was one of those charged with uncapping his cable modem, and didn't receive the same early exit from the legal gauntlet many of his fellow uncappers were 'lucky' to receive. Seven of the uncappers were indicted in September of 2002. One case was dismissed. Two offenders struck deals and went through a diversion program (Wirtz being one), and were not prosecuted. Two others were charged with reduced misdemeanor charges and placed on probation, while one other was convicted of a felony and placed on "community control".

The seventh, George Runner, only recently received his day in court. According to a report published yesterday, the case against Runner has been dismissed, because Runner apparently was not properly informed by Buckeye that he could not modify his modem. Wirtz confirmed for us that the company's acceptable use agreement failed to clearly disallow the modification of their modems.

The attorney representing Buckeye Cable had this to say: "Judge Barber’s opinion makes clear that his decision is limited to the highly unusual facts that the state for whatever reason agreed existed in Mr. Runner’s case. Whatever the merits of the ruling, it has no application beyond that case," he notes. "Bandwidth theft is a crime and no one should think otherwise."

Among the many comments generated by our original story and the subsequent Slashdot link, not many disagreed that the act of uncapping your cable modem was a punishable offense (if your TOS indicates it as such). What the majority (us included) found distasteful was the lengths (getting the FBI involved, confiscating materials unrelated to the crime) this particular provider was willing to go to in order to get their point across. Without sounding deeply conspiratorial, it's also not clear that Runner wasn't singled out due to some less than professional motivation.

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Forums » Uncappers Day in Court
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA


Again...

How this can be argued as criminal (and not a simple tort, breach of contract) is beyond me. You can't steal service you're paying for. Uncapping a modem is a simple breach of contract.

These cable companies want to have the Federal "Theft of Service" protection, but don't want their HSI regulated as their video services are.

I say, if they want the Federal ToS protections, then they should submit to the other regulations that come with it.

Yeah...these guys uncapped their modem...meanwhile O.J. killed everybody Gotta love these priorities.

--
-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 12:10:08]

ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
·Internet Nebraska

Re: Again...

said by oliphant:

Yeah...these guys uncapped their modem...meanwhile O.J. killed everybody Gotta love these priorities.
You hit the nail on its head.
--
Death Is Irrelevant.
joebear29

join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL

Re: Again...

said by ArchAngel21x See Profile:
You hit the nail on its head.

I missed that nail. Does that mean it's ok for me to commit crimes/torts because O.J. killed someone and was found not guilty?

MoeDumb
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23

Re: Again...

said by joebear29 See Profile:
Does that mean it's ok for me to commit crimes/torts because O.J. killed someone and was found not guilty?
I think you missed his point. Let the punishment fit the crime, and let the crime be properly classified first.
--
"tick...tick...tick..." »www.jtf.org/
joebear29

join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL

Re: Again...

said by MoeDumb See Profile:
said by joebear29 See Profile:
Does that mean it's ok for me to commit crimes/torts because O.J. killed someone and was found not guilty?
I think you missed his point. Let the punishment fit the crime, and let the crime be properly classified first.

Ah, that makes more sense.

What does that have to do with O.J.?

MoeDumb
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23

Re: Again...

The body of his post was his point: properly classifying an offense, and prioritizing limited Federal crime fighter resources. The OJ remark that you chose to focus on was an insignificant aside.
--
"tick...tick...tick..." »www.jtf.org/

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA


said by joebear29 See Profile:
said by ArchAngel21x See Profile:
You hit the nail on its head.

I missed that nail. Does that mean it's ok for me to commit crimes/torts because O.J. killed someone and was found not guilty?
No it means why are we dedicating state resources to chase down a half dozen people who changed a few lines in their config files when D.A. and Federal resources are so taxed, outdated, under staffed, incompetent that a murder they had "dead to rights" got off. And nothing has changed for the better over the last 10 years to stop that...in fact it has only gotten worse.

It seems to be that these Federal and state departments who are crying about money, crying about manpower, crying about everything seem to manage to have the time to waste their limited resources on what for all intents and purposes is a friggin civil tort. The "authorities" shouldn't be in this AT ALL.
--
-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 13:38:27]

chrisf8657

join:2002-01-27
Glendale, AZ
clubs:


Re: Again...

said by oliphant5 See Profile:
said by joebear29 See Profile:
said by ArchAngel21x See Profile:
You hit the nail on its head.

I missed that nail. Does that mean it's ok for me to commit crimes/torts because O.J. killed someone and was found not guilty?
No it means why are we dedicating state resources to chase down a half dozen people who changed a few lines in their config files when D.A. and Federal resources are so taxed, outdated, under staffed, incompetent that a murder they had "dead to rights" got off. And nothing has changed for the better over the last 10 years to stop that...in fact it has only gotten worse.

It seems to be that these Federal and state departments who are crying about money, crying about manpower, crying about everything seem to manage to have the time to waste their limited resources on what for all intents and purposes is a friggin civil tort. The "authorities" shouldn't be in this AT ALL.
--
-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 13:38:27]



Excuse me, but it is a CRIME, no matter how insignificant you think it is. Studies have proven someone who gets away with smaller things (in this case, cable bandwidth) will usually move on to stealing other things, even larger things...like your car.

These people STOLE bandwidth - which costs MONEY. If you were the one being stolen from I guarantee you would want to apprehend the people responsible too. So put yourself in that position and THINK...:(
--
~~Chris~~
Webmaster/Site Designer/Engineer, NT Network Tech & Total Guru
Need *ANY* kind of computer work done? See my profile for my Services page!

MoeDumb
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23


Re: Again...

said by chrisf8657 See Profile:

Excuse me, but it is a CRIME, no matter how insignificant you think it is.

Then pursue and punish said crime appropriately and not all out of proportion.
--
"tick...tick...tick..."
»www.jtf.org/

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 15:00:24]

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

said by chrisf8657 See Profile:
Studies have proven someone who gets away with smaller things (in this case, cable bandwidth) will usually move on to stealing other things, even larger things...like your car.
Do you honestly believe all that crap that you just typed?

bassman442
Take The Fifth
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Middlesex, NJ

Re: Again...

Really man.

broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:

said by chrisf8657 See Profile:
Excuse me, but it is a CRIME, no matter how insignificant you think it is. Studies have proven someone who gets away with smaller things (in this case, cable bandwidth) will usually move on to stealing other things, even larger things...like your car.
Yes and after smoking just one joint you will wind up on the street as a heroine junkie!

Thing is you can't prosecute someone for future crimes that he may commit. Except in the movies.
--
Some scientist may at last disperse
The mysteries of the universe
But me, I can not even think
Why pork is white and ham is pink
--Ogden Nash

TheChosenOne2
I Will Bring Balance

join:2003-08-17
Deep River, CT

Re: Again...

quote:
Yes and after smoking just one joint you will wind up on the street as a heroine junkie!
Yeah right, you must be one of the people that thought prohobition was a great idea too, huh?

broknsymetry
What Time Is It And Why?
Premium
join:2003-06-27
THE VOID
clubs:

Re: Again...


Note the use of SARCASM in my post!

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
Please post a link to the study for all to see.

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA


Please quote the criminal statute that was broken (or post a link to it). It's certainly not theft of service since they were authorized to receive HSI.

This is more like watching the same PPV movie twice...but even then HSI isn't video and isn't regulated as such.

This is a simple tort...breach of contract. Violating the TOS/AUP by changing the modem.

That's it. There is no crime here.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 22:19:26]

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

said by chrisf8657 See Profile:
Excuse me, but it is a CRIME, no matter how insignificant you think it is.
Hear that sound? It was the Clue train passing you by.

The whole point of the debate and as was repeatedly pointed out is that modem uncapping was *NOT* a crime, there was no law against it, it was *NOT* theft of service, and as was repeatedly discussed, at best it was a violation of TOS, however, in this case, Buckeye Cable had not specified service rates/modem configurations in their TOS, so it wasn't even THAT.

So, you could argue that is was WRONG but the argument that it was a CRIME (Especially involving the Feds!) was incredibly thin (and guess what, the Court agreed!)
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
joebear29

join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL

Re: Again...

said by KrK See Profile:

So, you could argue that is was WRONG but the argument that it was a CRIME (Especially involving the Feds!) was incredibly thin (and guess what, the Court agreed!)

That is pretty much my position, summed up nicely.

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
Holy crap...someone who actually gets it!

spaijkull
Speed Is The Key To A Good Sexlife

join:2001-10-25
Sweden

oops

[text was edited by author 2003-09-29 17:42:08]

ReBornToDieTwice

@xs4all.be

Please provide us with a link to scientifically sound research that prove your statements.
I'm very curious to see those alledged 'studies'.

And, btw, no1 is suggesting people should get away with crimes (if that is the case, here), but in most countries you have a difference between real criminal investigations and things such breach of contract (which apparently wasn't the case here neither, according to the court). I'm not familiar with the english terminology for it, but I'm sure you are aware of what I mean.

And one should also be very wary to the extend one rubberstamps 'illegal' on anything regarding the internet, since, after all, it's a new medium (if it weren't, there wouldn't have to be all those new laws to govern it). For instance, I tune my computer to get optimal datatransfer... maybe one could claim I'm doing this illegal too?

I think, for any reasonable dude, it's clear it's a strong case of over-reacting, here.

gargzo
How You Doin?

join:2000-11-02
South Bend, IN
I believe that O.J was not proven guilty. He was not, however, found not guilty.
--
Actual cash value of this post $0.0002.

Gandalf1315
Freelance Philosopher

join:2001-05-23
Indianapolis, IN
·Vonage
·RoadRunner Cable

said by ArchAngel21x See Profile:
said by oliphant:

Yeah...these guys uncapped their modem...meanwhile O.J. killed everybody Gotta love these priorities.
You hit the nail on its head.

If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times....In todays America, a misdemeanor against a corporation is worse than a violent felony against an individual.
--
No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session.--- Benjamin Franklin

Stewy85
Premium
join:2003-01-16
Sharon, WI
clubs:
I agree.

snmp_man

@on.ca

His stupidity got him caught....

If he simply would have disabled the snmp trap ports they would have not been able to know "what speeds" hiw modem was set to.
They would have had to force a modem reboot to re-enable snmp but that would have forced him modem to re-d/l the ISP config file..

Guess this guy is learning the hardway not to jump into something w/out having the knowledge to "cover" tracks or leave little evidence for the ISP to prove you uncaped.(in court of course..) If he would have dont that he would have received a nasty gram from his ISP telling him not to uncap(even though they cant be 100% sure he was in the 1st place..)

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: His stupidity got him caught....

said by snmp_man:
If he simply would have disabled the snmp trap ports they would have not been able to know "what speeds" hiw modem was set to.
They couldn't get exact speeds, but they could easily tell that he was getting more than he was paying for. There's no way to stop the ISP from monitoring your bandwidth usage via their routers.

latez

join:2002-01-07
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:

Wow...

This is ludacris.. all this for just uncapping your modem? I did that once with optonline they called me on the phone the next day after they shut off my service, told me if I dont cut it out they're going to take my bandwidth away, been a good boy since.. damn.. if I was a buckeye customer at this moment, I'd be making a phone call to the nearest dsl provider..
--
“The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity — the rest is overhead for the operating system.” —Nicholas Ambrose

dasesq

join:2001-10-07
Long Beach, CA

Re: Wow...

said by latez See Profile:
This is ludacris..
see what pop music does to language...

latez

join:2002-01-07
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:

Re: Wow...

hahahhaha

NOVA_Guy
The EVIL TRIO- Obama, Pelosi, and Dodd
Premium
join:2002-03-05
Purcellville, VA

Toledo's politics are screwed up...

One of my former college roommates lived in Toledo, OH and was always telling me about some screwed up thing that was happening there. Suffice it to say that the family that controls Buckeye Cable is somewhere to the east of mentally disturbed and somewhere to the west of totally insane.

And I agree with a number of other posters-- I don't see how this is "theft of service" in any way, as long as you're paying for access to the cable modem service. It's a civil matter. Shut the service down and force the subscriber to go to DSL or dial-up. The worst that happened here was that a few people violated the AUP/ToS-- something for a civil (not criminal) court to wrangle with.
--
Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service!

saber11
Check Six
Premium
join:2000-06-09
Clayton, OH

Re: Toledo's politics are screwed up...

It is theft pure and simple. Your stealing bandwidth. You pay for a set ammount a month. If you excede the ammount you pay for it's theft.

Same as if you paid for 5 gallons of gas and pumped 10. Same as if you paid for one hamburger but got 2.

You are stealing a product that can be sold to other subscribers, bandwidth.

Yes it violates the TOS/AUP, but you agreed not to uncap your modem, and you agreed in the tos that if you did you could face criminal penalties.
--
One item many soldiers purchased and carried into the desert that wasn't part of the regular equipment. "Another cool thing to bring with you is an American flag," Corcoran said. "Just in case you plan on conquering anything."

See 16 replies to this post
attsbcisgay

join:2003-03-18
Beverly Hills, CA
please splain to me why is 6mbit/608k possible if you are willing to pay for it?
if not, its crappy 1.5mbit/128-256k for you. boohoo!

bottom line, its about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
nothing more. END.

saber11
Check Six
Premium
join:2000-06-09
Clayton, OH

Re: Toledo's politics are screwed up...

said by attsbcisgay See Profile:
please splain to me why is 6mbit/608k possible if you are willing to pay for it?
if not, its crappy 1.5mbit/128-256k for you. boohoo!

bottom line, its about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
nothing more. END.
Would you rather have crapph 1.mbit/128-256k, or really good perfect 56K service?

You gotta take what you can get, and be happy with it.
--
One item many soldiers purchased and carried into the desert that wasn't part of the regular equipment. "Another cool thing to bring with you is an American flag," Corcoran said. "Just in case you plan on conquering anything."

Integrator
Rock of the Marne
Premium
join:2002-09-02
Keller, TX

Same Stuff Different Day

It is just ludicrous that the FBI was involved in a local crime. Buckeye, after doing more searches on the net, appear to be more like a Gestapo run organization than anything else. These individuals stole a service, understood. But doing what Buckeye and their lame trumped up accusations of what it cost them is nothing short of...........INCREDIBLE.

To even have the FBI involved sounds just wrong. Not to mention, impounding articles or devices that had nothing to do with "uncapping a modem".

Sounds like same stuff, different day.
Beeper
Part Of The Problem

join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:

Re: Same Stuff Different Day

said by Integrator See Profile:
It is just ludicrous that the FBI was involved in a local crime.
The FBI has been involved in local crime for half a century.

Is it effective use of federal resources? Doubt it.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism.

food for though

@apple.com

Re: Same Stuff Different Day

I think that's shameful... the FBI, committing local crimes. The FBI should *not* be involved in local crime, or any crime! They should obey the law!

-- FFT
joebear29

join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL

Fine 'em and move on

I do believe uncapping a cable modem is theft and should be a criminal offense, but involving the FBI? Not only is that insane, it wastes taxpayer money.

Similarly, sending someone to court, then jail? Another waste of taxpayer money. Let them plea bargain it down, fine them, and move on. It is a waste of taxpayer money to actually send someone to jail over this, if it's a first offense.

See 7 replies to this post

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
·Cingular Wireless

Just charge him and be done with it

This is a total waste of the courts, and tax dollars. I mean any reasonable person would just say , you paying for what used. If it happens again, we will only sell you our highest price package. then charge fees to death. I mean these companies dont see how they can make money on people like these. Instead they take him to court, and make themselves look bad. Theft of service maybe, but even then a simple we charge you for a yr covers it. I bet this will encourage others to do this now.
--
Alright DR. Slotkin do your worst.
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

Shouldn't have caved

Looks like the guys who took deals were fools, in hindsight. Runner was the only one who fought (according to the article, anyway), and he got off scot-free.
rrhoden

join:2002-10-15
Kathleen, GA

Wound

If I saw the word "wound" one more time, I would of screamed!!

53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone

join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

kinda obvios

i'm uncapped but only to 1.5/1.5mbps. it's just plain common sense you don't uncap to 100mbps otherwise you start whoring bandwidth and a net admin over at the noc see's all this traffic, not to mention leaving default smnp values so the cable companies can easily download your cable modem's configuration.

Jeremy341
Bye
Premium
join:2000-01-06
localhost

Re: kinda obvios

said by 53059959 See Profile:
i'm uncapped but only to 1.5/1.5mbps. it's just plain common sense you don't uncap to 100mbps
You do realize that raising your upload speed is harder on the cable company's network than raising your download speed, right? Besides, you can't uncap to 100mbps. A cable modem, capped or not, simply doesn't have 100mbps available to it. Even 10mbps is really pushing it.

53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone

join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

you can uncap to whatever you want. I think the maximum values you can enter for max upstream is around the likes of 6gbps. most of the time the networks will go no faster then 10mbps. and I don't think 1.5mbps is going to hurt cox's 1gbps nova link, it's righteous bandwidth. for expiremental purposes I was able to go up to 17mbps downstream, no more then 3-4mbps upstream even though I was uncapped to the 10/38 limit of the sb2100.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME

This has to do with priorities....

It's quite simple, this has to do with priorities. Law enforcement's priorities are screwed up! So are Congress'.

Let's say I run a store and I have 10 workers and four cash registers. There's a lot of people angrily waiting to be checked out, but only one register is open because I have six of my people out sweeping the sidewalk. That's
an example of screwed up priorities.
Same with law enforcement. FBI agents should have more important things to do that chase after cable modem uncappers! Look, 9/11 wasn't discovered because there was a misuse of FBI resources. It turns out they had acquired intelligence that showed something big was going to happen in NYC that day, but do to a lack of resources (read: personnel), the data wasn't analyzed until 9/12!
If it had been, perhaps while they would not have been able to stop the first plane, at least they would have had a chance to evacuate the second tower, saving over 1000 lives! Having trained agents wasting their time running around after petty crimes when felonies go un-investigated is simply wrong!

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND
·Midcontinent Commu..

Re: This has to do with priorities....

I'll bet you pennies to pesos that it is all about the benjamin. The FBI goes after these wasteful cases for kickbacks either to an individual, or a local branch or a handshake and wink from a member of Congress (to get more funding) beliveing that it will be for the better in the end.
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!

cgruber
Dippin' Dots

join:2002-07-25
Oshkosh, WI


Uncapping does hurt the company and others

If you uncap your cable modem and it uses up more bandwidth then what's available then other customer's will start to see slow down. That will cause customer's to become upset and possibly terminate service. That's loss revenue, and it also costs money to investigate and find the cause of the problem. Lost revenue in turn may require the company to increase their rates to re-coup operating expense. This is the same for any company offering a service, theft causes price inflation. I most certainly would not defend someone who was stealing bandwidth from me and my neighbors, making my prices go up. I don't know if I think the FBI needed to be involved but certainly the cable provider was within their rights to terminate service for these individuals.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 15:04:53]

Chicago_DSL6

join:2003-08-04
Palatine, IL

Re: Uncapping does hurt the company and others

Yeah, but a theft of residential services should require FBI intervention. FBI should investigate ENRON, not a cable end user that uncapped their modem. Theft or not, the FBI should not be involved, that makes me really pissed.
attsbcisgay

join:2003-03-18
Beverly Hills, CA


It does not as far as I know, uncapping allow you to use the full bandwidth that you so deserve, it is torture for all of us who can't stand slow ass upload. Before you assume things, do some research PLEASE!
For you are spouting the same crap they they are with no proof of factual evidence...
Thats like someone capping me Lan 100mbit to a cheesy 1.5mbit/128k, just because they control the network.
^^^ bandwidth is infinite IMO, but how much you pay determines your speed, all of which is a scam...^^^

[text was edited by author 2003-09-29 21:31:49]

Area_Man

join:2003-06-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Uncapping does hurt the company and others

I have to admit I am very curious about this. What research has brought you to this conclusion? I am under the assumption that the bandwidth that any particular area has is determined by the hardware in place at the CO. If someone is pulling more than their share of bandwidth via an uncapped modem, then how is that not hurting others in the same area?

Viperglyph

@bright.net

They run everything.

buckey owns everything around there. same as how time warner owns everything around here, after 10 years we are just now getting another cable company. they have a hold on everything.
vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD

Buckey Sucks!:(

That is just wrong, let the punishment fit the crime. 100 megs down and up, what cable node has that kind of speed? Seems a little fishy to me.
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!!

devrandom
I got a pot, full of random stuff here
Premium
join:2003-06-28


How does this guy get all this hardware back?

Does anybody know how this guy is going to get all that hardware that the FBI took from his house? I mean..think about it..there are like tons of pieces of hardware that he had, and they were all swept away.

Shouldn't they already be returned to him? Or does the FBI hold it forever and ever?

And do they keep his data on file or something?
--
If it can be smoked, its prolly not going to be good for you.

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 17:04:54]

See 7 replies to this post
delanceydsl

join:2003-01-17
Abingdon, MD

WHO KNOWS WHAT THEIR "CAPPED" SPEED IS ANYWAY?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I use Comcast and I dare anyone to find the information that says what their capped speed is anyway. I have always found the usual "20 times as fast as dial-up" and that sort of crap....
burnologist

join:2003-09-12
Lomita, CA

Re: WHO KNOWS WHAT THEIR "CAPPED" SPEED IS ANYWAY?

If someone promises a said amount and you take more it is stealing! Downloading MP3's is also stealing! People are more likely to do it because it is done at home unwatched. Most would not walk into a store and actually steal something. However the amount of time and money spent dealing with these crimes is like taking a nuke rabbit hunting. It is truly amazing the time and effort spent on the most petty crimes when there is much more things that need attention. The cable companies can just turn off the violators internet and ban them. That would take far less time and money then sicking the FBI on people. Amercia is great but our priorites need to be worked on....

hndrcks
Consider Alternatives

join:1999-11-15
Silver Spring, MD

Re: WHO KNOWS WHAT THEIR "CAPPED" SPEED IS ANYWAY?

"Downloading MP3's is also stealing!"

So what would you call $18.99 for a Britney Spears CD?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: WHO KNOWS WHAT THEIR "CAPPED" SPEED IS ANYWAY?

said by hndrcks See Profile:
So what would you call $18.99 for a Britney Spears CD?
A crime against humanity
--
The tobacco industry is more respectable than the telemarketing industry.
mystery45

join:2001-06-13
Titusville, FL

for all those who say how is it theft

For all those people who have been saying how is it theft of service when you are paying for it. The same reason it is theft when you pay for 4 apples but take 10. You are paying for the amount of bandwidth that is in your contract. whether it be 2000/256, 1500/125, or 500/50. It doesn't matter that is what you are paying for. To uncapp your modem is theft of something you are not paying for and costing the company and the people that are around you.

it was a lesson they gave and a lesson learned how many people now do you think will try and uncapp their modem in that part of the network. Not to many i would say.

Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....

join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA

well then lets all just sit in jail

to all of you who say that they deserved what they got.. well therefore you (read: all of us) should have our door busted, dragged out of bed by the fbi and bitten by the k9 unit while trying to get our pants on and automatically donate our property and savings to uncle sam and lawyers' anonymous.

so all of you who downloaded an mp3 (no matter how many) that you should not have, you have stolen. you have gotten something you haven't paid for. so let me see you self arrest yourself and present yourself in court, since its just the right thing to do as you have stolen.

unless you do that, you have no real right to cheer at the faith of others who did something for their own benefaction or simply out of curiosity if it will work.

This is just another example of corporate oppression that if applauded or left to fall through time with no opposition is likely to become a standard practice in the future.

To me, it is about the crime and actions taken. Not about who is wrong and right or whose money was wasted and how much of it.
attsbcisgay

join:2003-03-18
Beverly Hills, CA


This is bs

said by article:
According to Shyrock, one subscriber "altered his modem to handle 100 megabits per second, up and downstream", speeds that aren't really possible - but we digress.

100mb up and down?! wtf? that is just so full of crap, cable is limited to much less then that say 3-10mbit/1-4.5mbit. ugh...

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 23:25:58]

mustang03282

join:2003-01-10
Bridgeton, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS


Re: This is bs

said by attsbcisgay See Profile:
said by article:
According to Shyrock, one subscriber "altered his modem to handle 100 megabits per second, up and downstream", speeds that aren't really possible - but we digress.

100mb up and down?! wtf? that is just so full of crap, cable is limited to much less then that say 3-10mbit/1-4.5mbit. ugh...

[text was edited by author 2003-09-26 23:25:58]

i belive a cable modem can get 100mbit but then again a 56k dial up modem can connect to a 14.4 server and it isnt gona pull 56k. i'm not a fan of uncapping but i dont think its a criminal fine. if you are speeding most likely you get a fine. maby loose ur lisence depending on how fast but if all you were doing was speeding and it was your 1st time (that the cops know of) then you dont goto jail and they dont impount your car
IanR

join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ

If the case was thrown out....

Does Bukeye get punished for putting the customer through undue prosecution when the case gets thrown out?
I am against uncapping. I am also against the misuse of Government agencies. One has to wonder at the approval process to use the full resources of the FBI against individuals. I wonder if there will be any internal of FBI investigation into this misuse of authority? I get the feeling that we may well hear a lot more here in due course.
There has to be a proper way of stopping someone getting more than they are paying for while potentially disadvantaging others. But the cost of these investigations and prosecutions must have been so much much more than the original "loss" to buckeye???
The TOS is interesting as it's basically a one way street with most ISPs. They tell your your MAX and you pay a stated amount of money each month. In return you get NO guarantee of service not even a guarantee of MIN speeds. How can a "contract" be legal when it is ONLY one way? Surely the one paying money for a service (the consumer) should get enforceable value in return for that monetary consideration, not merely some vague best efforts. Hence how come the contract has so much teeth in the reverse direction and none to the consumer?
I've never seen a court look at any TOS "contract" and decide whether it's legal or not, given that NOTHING not even a min service is guaranteed or a process outlined whereby a consumer can claim compensation when "service" falls below a stated min?
mjcrocket
Mjc

join:2000-12-02
Abingdon, MD

Re: If the case was thrown out....

said by IanR See Profile:
One has to wonder at the approval process to use the full resources of the FBI against individuals. I wonder if there will be any internal of FBI investigation into this misuse of authority? I get the feeling that we may well hear a lot more here in due course.
There was NEVER any report published anyplace that said the full resources of the FBI were used in the investigation of this case. The FBI along with many other law enforcement agencies is a member of a law enforcement regional taskforce that exists in the area for the purpose of investigating all types of computer crime; in fact these regional taskforces exist in many parts of the country. As a matter of daily standard operating procedure the facilities and personnel of the FBI and other specialized federal investigative agencies, are available to assist local law enforcement agencies in their various investigations upon request by the local agency. No misuse of authority at all, there will not be any internal investigation, and you will not hear a lot about this in the future!

Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....

join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA

erm

i think they mean the actual modem was set to 100mpbs without making it an issue the network itself doesn't support that speed. makes it nicer sounding to the jury.. 100 vs 1.5 or 2..

furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?

join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA

Re: erm

said by Augustus III See Profile:
i think they mean the actual modem was set to 100mpbs without making it an issue the network itself doesn't support that speed. makes it nicer sounding to the jury.. 100 vs 1.5 or 2..
This is akin to saying that I removed the rev-limiter in my car and installed a 600Mph speedometer.

Ridiculous.

A couple things:

Cable companies can and will catch you if you uncap. I know from experience, I was perm. banned from ATT (comcast now) last April for uncapping. You can't disable SNMP. If you try, they'll just reset your modem on the spot.

It doesn't matter HOW much you change your values. If you pay for 1.5/384, and you change it to 1.5/1.5, they can spot it immediately.

Just don't uncap, please. It sucked big time going from my uncapped speeds of 3800/1500 to 56k. (can't get DSL here)
davelrrp

join:2003-09-27

Contract? What contract?

I signed up for cable broadband before it was available where I am. I had to install it myself when they asked me to be a beta tester and their installers could not figure how to do it. The benifit ended up being that they never had me sign a contract for service. I think I will uncap since I really have no limits set by any legal agreements. Might be fun to put one on them, ya think?

deadmeat
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Sonoma, CA

Re: Contract? What contract?

You don't have to sign a contract by using the service you agree to the terms of the service.

ReBornToDieTwice

@xs4all.be

nonsens

I have a set of plants that deliver O2 in the air; I provide that as a service. You breath that air. Therefor, you have to pay me.

According to you, it doesn't matter whether or not you agreed to it or not.

You could argue that you didn't know, but you know now, so you have no more excuse for not paying me asap!
Forums » Uncappers Day in Courtpage: 1 · 2


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