tobyTroy Mcclure join:2001-11-13 Seattle, WA |
toby
Member
2003-Sep-30 3:04 pm
No surprise hereAnother item to tax to death. | |
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| aztecnologyO Rly? Premium Member join:2003-02-12 Murrieta, CA |
Re: No surprise hereThank You CA, I'll file this right behind pre-paying for recycling for CRT's... | |
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Davis??Hmmmm, this sounds like Gov. Davis trying to get some money to help aid the state he has failed . | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2003-Sep-30 3:41 pm
Opening Pandora's boxIn my opinion, VOIP is just like any other kind of internet packets. It's really no different from say, sending a file via the net, etc. It's just used as a transport for voice communications that is set up to resemble telephone service for ease of use.
It should *not* be taxed. It should *not* be treated as "long distance" and charged more.
...but therein lies the rub. States and the Federal Government love the taxes and fees and social programs they tack onto telephone service. They are worried that everyone will switch to VOIP and dump POTS and they will lose their cash cow...
.... So, their answer is to treat VOIP the same as POTS and preserve their cash cow.
They aren't the same... but one thing is. TAXES. | |
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Re: Opening Pandora's boxsaid by KrK: In my opinion, VOIP is just like any other kind of internet packets. It's really no different from say, sending a file via the net, etc. It's just used as a transport for voice communications that is set up to resemble telephone service for ease of use.
Exactly! Taxing VoIP appears to be very fightable in court, does it not? The question is, will they? | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2003-Sep-30 4:20 pm
Re: Opening Pandora's boxsaid by CanOpener4: Exactly! Taxing VoIP appears to be very fightable in court, does it not? The question is, will they?
I think it's a court battle for now, but once States/Congress passes a law(s) treating VOIP as a service like telephone service the battle will be lost. This will really impact businesses who use VOIP over their IP networks to cut costs methinks. | |
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to CanOpener4
said by CanOpener4: Exactly! Taxing VoIP appears to be very fightable in court, does it not? The question is, will they?
Trouble is, it may be easier for them to "roll over" and just pay the taxes; they still may be a better price than the telcos. And being taxed adds instant legitimacy to VOIP services. | |
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Whistle Dixie to KrK
Anon
2003-Sep-30 7:20 pm
to KrK
Do they know about Skype? www.skype.com | |
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| | dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
dvd536
Premium Member
2003-Sep-30 7:51 pm
Re: Opening Pandora's boxsaid by Whistle Dixie: Do they know about Skype? www.skype.com
yawn. loaded with spyware and requires the other party to have the program as well. not as elegant as real voip. is there a skypeLITE yet? | |
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True governmentTax it...it is the american (government) way. Simply put, if it can be taxed, it will be taxed. And if it can't, they will just change the laws so it can.
Can anyone name one thing you buy or own that isn't taxed? | |
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Re: True governmentmy ISP isn't taxing me.
ym | |
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| | oliphant5Got Identity? Premium Member join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA |
Re: True governmentYour ISP isn't but the state certainly is. Take a look at the taxes you pay for the line your xDSL runs on. | |
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| | nodis2 join:2001-12-20 San Jose, CA |
to youngmoore
actually, your isp probably is taxing you. in my case, i have dsl from earthlink and they collect $1 or so every month for the universal service fund (USF). this just started.
on the same copper pair that my earthlink dsl runs on, i have phone service from sbc, which, in turn, collects the usual slew of taxes on PSTN plus another USF levy. whee.
if vonage or other voip carriers start to collect taxes for using voip phone service on the dsl link, i will, effectively, be paying taxes/usf levies THREE times for service over a single copper pair.
i really hope the fcc steps in and rationalizes this mess. states and localities have to raise money somehow, as does the usf, but i'd really like to pay the fees only once. someone needs to figure out what layer of service (POTS, DSL, or IP service like VoIP running on the DSL link) will be taxed. | |
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Re: True governmentyup I heard about that. Its not required so I have no idea why they started doing that. The only time you see taxes on BB for DSL is with ILEC's for some reason.
ym | |
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to Camelot One
Food, but candy, soda and other junk foods are. | |
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| | oliphant5Got Identity? Premium Member join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA |
Re: True governmentIn some states...in some others (like I think Oklahoma) all food in taxed. | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2003-Sep-30 6:36 pm
Re: True governmentIn Oklahoma, everything is taxed. There's no SALES taxes on newspapers and periodicals, however. | |
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Re: True governmentI am taxed on both my ISP and newspapers. (unless purchased from a machine, though I don't understand that one) In fact, I am taxed on the phone line, the DSL circuit, and the ISP charge. Food is taxed as well, though at a lower rate than normal sales tax. | |
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| oliphant5Got Identity? Premium Member join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA
1 recommendation |
to Camelot One
The greed of government is never satisfied. | |
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oliphant5
1 recommendation |
I'm shockedCalifornia state cubicle leeches looking to regulate and tax yet another business out of existence? Say it isn't so. These out of state companies like Vonage should just flip them the bird. What's next, regulating VPN? What other packets shall we tax today? How about email? Dumbass Davis cronies running Cali into bankruptcy...sending business fleeing.
This is just another bunch of greedy politicos smelling another wallet to raid.
Please...just 7 more days...can't you whoring Sacramento fcks just take one of your many taxpayer funded vacations?!? | |
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pianotechPianotech Premium Member join:2002-12-30 New Castle, PA |
Chalk another one up......for the People's Republic of California. Maybe they can try and chase EVERY business out of the state. | |
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| TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
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Re: Chalk another one up...To all businesses being run out of California, Please come to Wyoming. No state income tax good roads. our data networks are growing. New Business would help speed this along. The communities here would put on knee pads to get you here. You don't have to worry about Governors like Gray-out Davis, we have run these kinds of creeps out years ago. | |
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Greed the American WayThe states are so naïve when it comes to the application of technology to the new business model. Americans finally have the means to rid themselves of old technology and business models, although our elected officials must have a hidden agenda other than the one that got them elected in the first place. If the state of California is now struggling, how can they believe that the states fellow Californians are faring any better? It is my believe that you need a time to get the VOIP running before you should start making demands of VOIP, which is still in an incubation stage as the technology gains residential acceptance. | |
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| TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
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Re: Greed the American Waysaid by john Qwest: our elected officials must have a hidden agenda other than the one that got them elected in the first place.
In Wyoming it is very difficult for our elected officials to have a hidden agendas. We are more a very large city then a state with a population of a little less the 500,000. So we know our politicians almost, if not at, a personal level. The credo of State politics is Gun control is how well you can aim Taxes is a five letter curse word If you suggest a change in either one you will find yourself moving to Colorado. besides that your mother will spank you.:D | |
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raye Premium Member join:2000-08-14 Orange, CA
1 recommendation |
raye
Premium Member
2003-Sep-30 6:21 pm
Arnold for governorMaybe he will do something about this after October 7th. | |
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Re: Arnold for governorSorta wish I was still in Orange so I could vote!
I think you all are going to send a CLEAR message to the "good'ole Boys" there in CA and around the country when Arnold wins! But, I bet they won't listen.
I'm all for the recall concept! Only thing I can't quite grab is why Davis got re-elected to begin with.
I like and respect both Arnold AND his wife. I think they will BOTH be good for CA. And maybe you all will get the best of BOTH worlds - Rep and Dem. Maybe that's what's needed to get the Parties working together to do the will of the people, rather than fighting each other and doing dumb things like the new Car taxes, Drivers Licenses for illegals, and this proposed VOIP tax.
Go Arnold! | |
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this is a b*tchFor once the FCC isn't doing anything to crush or stifle a new technology (and the competition it will provide) in it's infancy, but the states are gonna ruin it.
It's still competition, though.
If VOIP starts having to pay "universal access charge", shouldn't that be used to give people internet connections? | |
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pkust join:2001-08-09 Houston, TX |
pkust
Member
2003-Sep-30 10:30 pm
Naivete is no defenseStraight from the VoicePulse web site:
"Our broadband phones use the latest technology to send your calls over the Internet to bring you the greatest features, save you money and still give you stable, reliable phone service!"
If these companies don't want to be treated like telephone companies, why do they keep presenting themselves as telephone companies? I have no great love for the Baby Bells, but anyone who sticks his chin out has no right to complain when he gets smacked in the face.
It's worth noting that nowhere on Verizon Wireless' web site do they claim to be any manner of telephone company--the language is "wireless communications". I do not believe this is coincidence.
Rightly or wrongly, telephone companies are subject to regulation by each state's PUC (or equivalent). Rightly or wrongly, "telephone service" is regulated by each state's PUC (or equivalent).
Corporate managers who are ignorant of the legal minefields surrounding their core business are either incompetent, naive, or (more likely) both. | |
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calvoiper join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA |
A new way to justify regulation....From the Voxilla article:
***Leutza believes that a typical consumer cant distinguish between the traditional Public Switched Telephone Network and these new networks that [are] IP technology driven.***
What's next, Jack? You find a typical consumer that "can't distinguish between a cable modem and a DSL line, and you use that to leapfrog your jurisdiction from DSL to Cable? Many folks would say, with good reason, that there's a lot less difference between DSL and Cable than there is between VoIP and the PSTN.
This is a new, and very dangerous, step for regulation--even though something is clearly NOT regulated, bureaucrats now try to regulate it because it might look like (and therefore, compete with) their existing gravy train.
With logic like this, we will doubtless soon be regulating tire changers as horseshoers, mechanics as veterinarians and nailing license plates on horses' butts....
Calvoiper | |
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