Time to ditch Windows IE? Firebird Friday Oct 17 2003 14:21 EDT Bad memories of Netscape version 4.x from the AOL days and before, have been laid to rest! Firebird officially rocks! Many people probably do not realize that Opera is not the only alternative to windows Internet Explorer. Heck, many people probably don't realize, as they contemplate yet another IE security hole in the news, that even Opera itself is available as an alternative. Firebird (see the end of this article for useful links) has quietly become an exceedingly good browser, one that has been adding features that you want, rather than advertisers, spy-ware writers, and microsoft prefers you to have. I've been testing firebird 0.7 out recently and came away very impressed. It is now my preferred browser above Opera (and way above IE). Despite improvements in stability made by Opera over the last year, I still found that it would crash from time to time, Opera would also fail in strange ways on the javascript in use at some sites. A browser should NEVER crash during regular usage. I am very pleased to say goodbye to Opera, and settle on firebird. Why Switch? Here are my top reasons: Firebird blocks popups but still provides you access to them if you wish, and also blocks those annoying javascript tricks that some sites use to scroll messages, change the size of your browser window to full screen, or deactivate the back or close buttons (and more). All this good supression stuff would require doubtful 3rd party tools to be bolted onto IE, tools that often just do not work quite right. Despite being a pre-release version (0.7), firebird feels stable, fast and looks clean. In the sites I have visited, pages render identically to IE. And the interface is familiar, compact, and easy to use (anyone who tried the Mozilla 6 release, with its strange default 'skin' will be pleased to hear that). Offering the best of both worlds, firebird supports tabbed-browsing and new window browsing at the same time. Which paradigm you prefer to use is entirely up to you. Worried about your bookmarks? firebird automatically finds and imports your IE bookmarks. So right from the initial install, everything you need is there. Flash, Java and Quicktime plugins worked for me exactly as they were working under IE. I disliked trying new releases of Opera because it seemed their plug-in fetch interface was just NOT intuitive and required NEW installs, even though the plugins were working fine under IE already. Firebird is small. If you have ever had the misfortune to watch the upgrade process of IE from one version to another, wondering whether your computer will ever even come back after the multitude of rubbish and upgrades that get forced upon you during the upgrade (media player? why is it updating media player?), you'll appreciate that the entire download of firebird is just six megabytes. Today it seems like a new windows theme is bigger than six megabytes. 6mb is tiny. Firebird has themes, and extensions. Being a dullard, I've not had time to play with these, but the lengthy menu of extensions (such as Live HTTP Headers and Bookmark Links Checker) look very tasty! Security appears to be good. So far, the milestone releases of firebird have been feature improvements and bug fixes, but few if any urgent security updates have been necessary. This could be because the browser just contains far less code than IE, which in recent years has grown to be somewhat of a monstrosity, it could be because the browser does NOT support "Active-X". (in my view, this particular conscious incompatibility with IE is a very good thing. It seems to me that Active-X is the primary way mal-ware companies like Gator Inc get their code quietly installed on your PC with little significant warning. Very few if any sites of importance REQUIRE Active-X in order to work. Many of the Microsoft emergency bug fixes for IE revolve around Active-X holes). Another plus on the security side is this: because IE will maintain its market share for some time to come, worms and other nasty-ware will probably be written FOR those who use IE, and NOT for those who are using firebird (or other browsers). Software diversity enhances survivability! Get a free security ride for a few years, let someone else be the lowest common denominator for a change. You should at least give Firebird a try. If you like it, then set it as your default browser: one click in the Tools->Options->General section. (although - I had some trouble making desktop shortcuts call firebird up properly. It is hard to completely unglue IE!). This is the Firebird home page. Other important pages are why you should switch to firebird and The firebird windows installer page (I used the first link under Download Mozilla Firebird to get the installer). You can keep an eye on all things mozilla related at the MozillaZine. MozillaZine has a Frequently Asked Questions topic that helps with some common questions and plug-in issues. Firebird is available for Windows, Linux and MacOS X. Firebird is, of course, free. Not even advert-supported free (like Opera), but community-built and supported free. (although tax deductable donations are welcome). Now, where can I get my $39 Opera refund? |
GlaiceBrutal Video Vault Premium Member join:2002-10-01 North Babylon, NY
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Glaice
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 2:25 pm
Very much soFirebird is a stable browser so far and using the AdBlock extension stops ads from appearing if you don't have something like NIS to block it. [text was edited by author 2003-10-17 14:26:16] | |
| | pike Premium Member join:2001-02-01 Washington, DC |
pike
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 5:35 pm
Re: Very much soMy only gripe with Firebird so far is the poor dual-monitor support under WinXP. The taskbar disappears from my primary monitor when I try to surf full screen.. the cursor also acts funny when surfing on the secondary monitor.. -Mike | |
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catchy title?as in the plague?runnin duals on 98se...yes still in the dinosaur age...think I'll have the same issues as you?...thanks | |
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kapilThe Kapil join:2000-04-26 Chicago, IL
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kapil
Member
2003-Oct-17 2:25 pm
YEAH!!!Firebird does kick ass though! ...been using it for months...and it is the first Gecko based browser that I have made the default browser on my machine. | |
| | jmorlanHmm... That's funny. MVM join:2001-02-05 Pacifica, CA ARRIS BGW210-700 Obihai OBi200
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Sorry folks. Firebird messes up.I decided to try it after all the raves.
All seemed to go well until it asked me to make Firebird my default browser. I said "yes" figuring I could easily change it back if there were problems. I browsed to my home page and made it my home page and removed the Yahoo ads. Neat!
Next I visited my favorite online chess room. I needed to download Sun Java which worked, but the font in the main chess room was unreadably small and in bold face. There was no obvious way to change this font. Nevertheless the game played okay under Firebird.
Next I visited some banking sites. I paid a bill, etc using secure sites. But I'm used to RoboForm automatically filling in the login/password fields. Firebird didn't remember logins or passwords on secure sites, although it did on non-secure sites. I visit a lot of banking and other secure sites and Firebird doesn't seem to offer what Roboform does. Then I tried going back here to DSLReports from IE, but it opened Firebird instead.
Where do you change the default browser back to IE? I couldn't find an option in either browser. I checked the IE option to check if it's the default browser, but Firebird remained the default no matter what I did. Sigh. I'd finally had enough, so I decided to uninstall Firebird. Unfortunately the uninstall failed to finish...just hung before getting done. My system (Win98SE) became unstable and I had to reboot. After the reboot I tried logging back onto DSL reports, but the link wouldn't work. It wanted to open it in Firebird which had been mostly uninstalled. Not good.
Next I visited the chess room again and IE had adopted the Sun Java runtime displaying the same tiny unreadable font. I had to get rid of that, but Sun Java has NO UNINSTALL! Darn. I decided to take drastic action. I booted to DOS and ran scanreg /restore, restoring the registry I had this morning before installing Firebird and Sun Java. Then I rebooted and went back to the chess room. Sun Java was still there. I dug around and found a copy of MS Virtual Machine. I installed it and finally the chess room was back to normal.
Firebird is an interesting browser. It definitely takes a smaller memory footprint than IE, but I've already got a popup/ad blocker and I need roboform or equivalent on anything that's going to be my main browser.
Sorry folks. | |
| | | reub2000 Premium Member join:2001-12-28 Evanston, IL |
reub2000
Premium Member
2003-Oct-18 12:05 am
Re: Sorry folks. Firebird messes up.How do you uninstall something that you can't install in the first place?
And if you need a form filler, just use mozilla. | |
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Using it for a few months now.Much better than Netscape. I hate IE. | |
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Re: Using it for a few months now.I love Moz Firebird as well. I have been using it since arounf April if memory serves me right. NO probs...maybe a few crashes if that, but I run heeps of tabs on firebird. Opera and a heep of tabs is more time than any have crashed. IE is hell on earth Opera 7 is still ok And Firebird smokes the above bar none Thanks to ALL the Firebird developers that have made available...without you we would be stuck with IE | |
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oliphant5Got Identity? Premium Member join:2003-05-24 Corona, CA |
I'm sold on itAfter reading about Firebird in another thread I've been using it with no problems. There are a few pages that don't render quite right but the services I use (eg online banking) work great.
And no popups, page resizes, etc just clinched the deal. I would recommend to anyone who isn't completely satisfied with IE to try it because unlike IE, you can get rid of it if it turns out you don't like it. | |
| SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA
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Sarick
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 2:30 pm
NO WAY!Microsoft owns to much of the publics BOXES to make such a claim. Even though Microsoft has done a sloppy job at browser design there methods of incorporating it into the OS has made it nearly impossible to run a windows system without it. Sure it's used for the correct Windows update but the underlying problem still remains Microsoft hard coded a lot of internal windows features into the OS. If you attempt to remove the IE in a true form you'll likely corrupt your BOX. API's and dlls all over the place are bond to the OS core. Internet explorer is one of those programs that are so meticulously Incorporated into the OS that that viewing folders on the hard disk or floppy access it's internal workings. Sarick's Dungeon Clipart Page Trouble spelling? www.iespell.com[text was edited by author 2003-10-17 14:39:57] | |
| | justin..needs sleep Mod join:1999-05-28 2031 Billion BiPAC 7800N Apple AirPort Extreme (2011)
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justin
Mod
2003-Oct-17 2:40 pm
Re: NO WAY!what ARE you talking about?
Ditching IE means not USING it, not 'uninstalling' it. Just because microsoft decided to knit IE into the guts of its other programs, does not mean people have to USE it.
It is trivial to make your default browser Firebird. Why don't you actually TRY it? | |
| | | SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA
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Sarick
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 3:02 pm
Re: NO WAY!Haven't you read the, security bulletins out there. installing firebird isn't going to guarantee that your impervious to exploits. I've ran firebird, before very fast compatible in most respects. As for security I Turn that ActiveX garbage off. I have yet to get a installed on my system. At least none that I know of. I recently ran spybot, Adaware and Browser security test. » bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/ ··· dex.php?Passed with Flying colors. Run your firebird through it. The Average Joe isn't going to install firebird unless they are convinced that it's the best choice. To convince them they'll need to care about computers. The way things are coming these days, We're all going to be running big brothers IE and we won't have any privacy to begin with. Look at the TCPA. Security is what things are coming. You know I showed about 37 people that link to » www.againsttcpa.com/what ··· cpa.htmlit's really sad only 2 people gave a hoot about it. If you consider the small percentage of people that didn't care about this critical underlying issue what makes you think they will care about Firebird? | |
| | | | justin..needs sleep Mod join:1999-05-28 2031 Billion BiPAC 7800N Apple AirPort Extreme (2011)
1 recommendation |
justin
Mod
2003-Oct-17 3:11 pm
Re: NO WAY!said by Sarick: Haven't you read the, security bulletins out there. installing firebird isn't going to granter that your impervious to exploits.
With due respect, you don't get it. There are IE exploits a-plenty, but if you don't actually POINT YOUR IE AT ANYTHING then there is no risk. The best way NOT TO USE ie, is NOT TO USE IT! use another browser. Firebird has its own rendering and javascript engine. The number of possible exploits is dramatically reduced. And by the way - pointing your current system at any security tester tells you nothing other than whether you have patched what you need to patch for PAST problems. All the FUTURE problems are there waiting. You will enjoy having to emergency patch IE regularly. I, on the other hand, will not bother. | |
| | | | | jplove71 Premium Member join:2001-03-16 Scottsdale, AZ |
jplove71
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 3:43 pm
Firebird > Internet ExplorerI've been using Mozilla Firebird for the last 6 months now and I am loving it! No more pop-ups, no more stupid java script tricks to hijack my browser, and best of all is the tabbed browsing! That is by far the greatest feature that Firebird has to offer! No more multiple windows for browsing multiple sites at the same time. | |
| | | | | | nixenRockin' the Boxen Premium Member join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA |
nixen
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 5:08 pm
Re: Firebird > Internet ExplorerAnd, what really rox is being able to set your startup to tab groups. Handy if you have several sites you always read everyday, but would otherwise have to open individual tabs/browsers for.
-tom | |
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1 recommendation |
to justin
MS Security Bulletin MS03-040 (828750)said by justin:
said by Sarick: Haven't you read the, security bulletins out there. installing firebird isn't going to granter that your impervious to exploits.
With due respect, you don't get it. There are IE exploits a-plenty, but if you don't actually POINT YOUR IE AT ANYTHING then there is no risk.
The best way NOT TO USE ie, is NOT TO USE IT! use another browser. Firebird has its own rendering and javascript engine.
I fully understand the reasons that others are interested in pursuing a 'better browser' than IE, but I do think it's important before everyone who does not actually use IE (on their Windows systems)dismiss the IE security patches, they need to determine for themselves if the following information is valid. » www.microsoft.com/securi ··· -040.aspText quoted from the above link: Why We Are Issuing This Update A number of security issues have been identified in Microsoft® Internet Explorer that could allow an attacker to compromise a Microsoft Windows®-based system and then take a variety of actions. For example, an attacker could run programs on your computer when you are viewing a Web page. This vulnerability affects all computers that have Internet Explorer installed. (You do not have to be using Internet Explorer as your Web browser to be affected by this issue.) You should help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. | |
| | | | | | ikarus1 Premium Member join:2002-10-23 Urbanna, VA |
ikarus1
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 7:27 pm
Re: MS Security Bulletin MS03-040 (828750)Yep...
You are right. That *IS* what happens when you make the web browser into part of the OS, JUST TO WIN A COURT CASE.
Look, everyone who has been on the net a few years *KNOWS* what Microsux did to ensure their stuff became part of the OS, and they know that their motivation was to kill Netscape, and they know as well that this administration was responsible for allowing that to happen (as much as I dislike admitting it, if Clinton ever got anything right, he got that right...).
Still, Netscape is dead. IE (while it truly sux) rulez. The only hope is for Microsux to look like what they have become, the bully on the block. Biggest, baddest, and DUMBEST moron around. Give them another year and people will be looking for alternatives, but today, well they just aren't yet.
Sorry, wish they were, but the pain level isn't high enough yet... but then by release 1.0 of Firebird, they may well be...
-m- | |
| | | | | | SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA |
to katarina2
Thank you for that backup support, I was sweating to the eighties a few hours.
J/K
I'm thankful that you posted that advisory link that included the information I was so quickly to tout.
You do not have to be using Internet Explorer as your Web browser to be affected by this issue.
Kudos Katarina! | |
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Re: MS Security Bulletin MS03-040 (828750)I knew I had read that somewhere .... just glad I was able to find it. Unfortunately, it seemed to be kind of buried. I normally would have just loaded the patch when I was notified of it's existence. If this discussion hadn't come up before in the security forum, I wouldn't have gone to that page that emphasizes that it needs to be applied whether or not one is using IE.
I suspect that the general Windows user, as a rule, doesn't understand how, if they are not using IE, that the IE security issues could impact them and possibly would dismiss this notice without evaluation. I hope that everyone using alternate browsers (which have definite advantages over IE) aren't lulled into a false sense of security and ignore the IE patches.
Maybe there aren't any reported incidents now (I don't know,) but we've been warned. It wasn't that long ago that we were being told that to avoid a virus infected email, all we had to do was resist the temptation to open email attachments from strangers. Not anymore ... the beasties have evolved and we can't bury our head in the sand and say, 'that doesn't apply to me.' (As recently as two years ago, the person responsible for our 'IT' needs in a small security unaware company, was telling our internal users the same thing ... and many of our PCs did not have AV software on them and he never applied updates.) It seems like, each day new things are cropping up and the rules change.
So, for those of you choosing alternate browsers, go for it and enjoy the advantages ... but don't forget that you are still running a MS OS and that the bad guys are staying one step ahead of us. For myself, no matter which browser I use, I will continue to apply IE security updates. | |
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| | | kapilThe Kapil join:2000-04-26 Chicago, IL |
to Sarick
granter? | |
| | | | | SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA
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Sarick
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 3:34 pm
Re: NO WAY!it was a mis-click when I spell checked.
It was "guarantee"
As you can see below I blunder typos all the time. I try not to be to hypercritical of my typos. I wish the public was the same way.
Please don't reply to this. [text was edited by author 2003-10-17 15:42:37] | |
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| bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium Member join:2001-06-09 Derry, NH
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to Sarick
Actually Saric, there's a site out there at www.litepc.com that have been able to strip out IE and alot of other crap from Winblows. They started from stripping out the crap fom Win9x and now you can fix 2K & XP. I've been using their freeware stuff on my Win98 box and have been loving it. Got rid of IE, and alot of other junk. Cut the install down by half. I'm still running that machine off of 2Gig SCSI drive I got 6 or 7 years ago. | |
| | | SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA |
Sarick
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 3:04 pm
Re: NO WAY!Thats good news, how are you updating your OS? | |
| | | | bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium Member join:2001-06-09 Derry, NH |
bear73
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 7:21 pm
Re: NO WAY!In the case of Win98, I just wade through the updates, (they don't make too many any more) and then image my install. I haven't tried it on 2K or XP yet but it has a nifty part that lets you UNCOUPLE the update from IE and certainly for WIN98 it works fine (tried it and then went back to a previous image. Don't want any of it) Did you look at their site before replying? There are alot of options with their software including removing Explorer from the OS and inserting the Win95 _unweb-ified_ Explorer. It's snappy fast! For anyone that doesn't like all the bloat included in Win, it deserves a peep. | |
| | | | | SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA |
Sarick
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 11:10 pm
Re: NO WAY!Yes I did look at the site, It appears as though the program you claim to remove IE is is...
IEradicator is a tiny, script that uses the Windows setup engine to surgically remove Internet Explorer versions 3 through 6.0 from Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows Millennium and Windows 2000(sr1).
Not for use with Windows 2000sr2 or Windows XP
I'm on Windows XP.... | |
| | | | | | bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium Member join:2001-06-09 Derry, NH
1 recommendation |
bear73
Premium Member
2003-Oct-18 11:43 am
Re: NO WAY! litepc.com |
Don't know how you missed it. There is a big ol' button that says XPlite 2000lite 1.0 Gold. IEradicator is for removing Just IE from Win9x/ME AND 2k ( throught sr1). To have found IEradicator you had to have ignored alot of other stuff. There is also 98Lite for removing alot of junk from Win9X. Despite what M$ claims, no version of windoze NEEDS IE to operate. | |
| | | | | | | SarickIt's Only Logical Premium Member join:2003-06-03 USA |
Sarick
Premium Member
2003-Oct-18 2:41 pm
Re: NO WAY!Yup I missed that.
The reason could could have been do to the product name. even if this software does remove the IE I'm still dead set against removing it. It's so integrated into the OS that removing it even if it's to cut back a few exploits would be detrimental to the XP system.
Consider that patching a system isn't always a simple task. Install the wrong update or in the wrong order and your BOX could be severely broken. Not only broken by your chances of an improper patch could result and even greater system security risks!
I know IE is highly exploitable. Changing my browser and stripping IE out of the system isn't what I consider the wisest of choices. Not only does the system use IE to access updates but other programs designed for XP in every walk of life today are programed to use these internal APIs and DLLs. I'm not going to rush mainstream incompatibility by stripping my OS of widely used features incorporated into the OS.
Stripping these features clearly breaks the
Designed for Windows XP certification. | |
| | | | | | | | sig6 Premium Member join:2001-05-05
1 recommendation |
sig6
Premium Member
2003-Oct-20 3:53 am
Re: NO WAY!Sarick: no one is asking or telling you to use another browser or even to remove IE. If other people choose to do so, that's their choice. And choice is what it's about. Alternative browsers have many features that IE doesn't and some people prefer them.
It doesn't appear there will be an IE 7 and whatever new incarnation will wait until Longhorn comes out (2005) and then it reportedly will be linked to some MSN network or something. In the mean time many people will want to explore other options with other features. Firebird is just one among several. | |
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| Luca Brasi Premium Member join:2002-07-30 Fairview Heights, IL |
to Sarick
I like my IE just fine. For the hell of it, I got firebird and tried it. Got the error message you see, and quit. Not going to go through the hassle to fix it. There goes my try. | |
| | | Mele20 Premium Member join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
1 recommendation |
Mele20
Premium Member
2003-Oct-22 8:32 am
Re: Not looking for a new browser but..Why didn't you go to the bugs page? I just got a parsing error when I installed mouse gestures for Firebird. I have been using the gestures just fine with Mozilla. So, instead of pouting and deciding I couldn't be bothered any further, I went to the Mouse Gestures page and then clicked on "bugs". The parsing error was at the very top with a line through it. I read the reports from various users and learned that evidently I had d/l just before the bug was fixed! Bug was reported on Oct 16 and fixed by Oct 21.
I downloaded the fix and my mouse gestures work just fine. That took me all of about three minutes and was actually interesting in addition to solving my problem very fast and in a painless manner. The point that anyone who wants to be involved in this project can be was driven home to me by this experience. I like that concept much better than the alternative of "slavery" to Microsoft. | |
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| | | | justin..needs sleep Mod join:1999-05-28 2031 |
justin
Mod
2003-Oct-17 11:44 pm
Re: MyIE2but since myie2 is IE ++ , whever IE updates you must update myie2, and whatever disease is going around with IE, you'll get it as well. | |
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to Sarick
But if you keep your pc updated and behind a solid firewall, you don't need to be worried about that. ppl blame MS for that blaster worm when they had a patch for it months in advance. If you can't update your pc, no browser is gonna help you. :/
MyIE2 has all the features of Firebird, and there isn't a site out there that IE won't display. Seems win/win to me. | |
| | | ••• | | matt7318 |
to Sarick
Also the updates are seemless, it uses the IE core files but doesnt need MyIE2 to be updated with it, if you update IE on windows update then MyIE2 will have those updates as well.
MyIE2 is just updated to add/improve features within the browser shell of MyIE2. | |
| | | jm8 join:2003-09-21 Graceville, FL |
jm8
Member
2003-Oct-18 1:36 am
Re: NO WAY!Firebird is faster! | |
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to Sarick
In what start up time? lol, the only time you can see a faster speed is on dial-up, I havent had dial-up in months :P | |
| | TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY |
to Sarick
I have just loaded firebird, all I can is wow. I'll still use IE but I have made firebird My default browser for now. There is a plugin in the extension window that is suposed to fix whatever problems you might with site that is setup IE. In fact there are some real interesting plugins there. | |
| | veloctGo Pats Premium Member join:2003-01-21 Moosup, CT
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to Sarick
I got rid of 99.9% of the IE and 100% of the windows crap alright, i bought a mac. Solved that problem for me. | |
| | richk_1957If ..Then..Else Premium Member join:2001-04-11 Minas Tirith |
to Sarick
1 Windows server 2003, IE 2 Windows 2000 Pro, Netscape 3 Windows XP, Firebird 3 Windows XP, IE
Well, I can say that Firebird seems to be working great, no crashes, errors or anything like that. No Java or rendering problems,so as soon as I can find a replacement e-mail client [firerbird doesn't come with one, that's what I use netscape for] I'll start using it.
However, I will not uninstall IE! There may be programs out there that will do it, but what about XP & 2003? I don't think so. Besides there are still a couple of sites out there that look weird if you don't use IE on them. Besides, one thing I do like is the windows update feature. If updates/patches need to be installed in a certain order, it does it for you. IE is so intertwined with the OS that if you remove it, you loose quiet a bit & stand a good chance of screwing up windows, which is screwed up enough as it is.
You just gotta keep on patching, even if you remove IE | |
| | | jplove71 Premium Member join:2001-03-16 Scottsdale, AZ |
jplove71
Premium Member
2003-Oct-18 8:06 pm
Re: have 4 boxessaid by richk_1957: so as soon as I can find a replacement e-mail client [firerbird doesn't come with one, that's what I use netscape for] I'll start using it.
You're looking for Mozilla Thunderbird. | |
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| FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor away Premium Member join:2003-06-23 Saint Louis, MO |
to Sarick
jeez people, just buy a mac.
you wont have to uninstall/patch/debug/update/verify/whatever anything. it just works. the best to avoid windows problems is to avoid windows.
instead of thinking about updates and security flaws and arguing about what browser is more secure etc, you can just use your computer to get your work done and move on with your life...
the answer is really simple.... | |
| | | ••• | | ccallanaHuh? Premium Member join:2000-08-03 Folsom, CA |
to Sarick
I tried it on our corporate network - not really a good option - almost every single page needs a login, sometimes mulitples per page - IE takes care of that automatically - I had to type my login name and password 3 or 4 times just to get one page up - and that was clicking the "save this password" box...
Worked pretty good at home - there are some wierd things about it - I think it actually loads images and stuff slower than IE, but thats just a perception. Also here at DSLR, in the posting box, the cursor is like 1/4 of a character off, so it looks like it is sitting on the thing you just typed instead of after it - maybe a font problem... otherwise its nice and small and works great. | |
| | | jm8 join:2003-09-21 Graceville, FL |
jm8
Member
2003-Oct-21 7:29 pm
Re: NO WAY!This is due to the proxy server, you probably have an ISA server just like us here. I hate it, we used to have MS Proxy 2.0(i think), everything was cool. They upgraded to this MS ISA, and I hate it, it wont let anything out other than MS apps, using the NTLM auth settings, and enabling Basic, will result with issues like yours, but at least you can get out thru your server. You may want to try using » apserver.sourceforge.net, this should allow browsing with no issues. I havent used here at work, because I would get in trouble for installing it(IT would see it as a means to get around their ISA server) | |
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| ccallanaHuh? Premium Member join:2000-08-03 Folsom, CA |
to Sarick
I can browse great outside of work - its just inside that sucks... "this site requires a login" - every page needs to know who you are - which is great most of the time, but in this case its a pain.
oh well... | |
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bokamba Premium Member join:2002-04-05 Arlington, VA |
bokamba
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 2:35 pm
Java problemsI've been using Firebird 0.6 for a month or so, and it's pretty good. I haven't been able to get Java to work (I followed the directions, but I didn't try very hard). Is version 0.7 any better in that regard? | |
| | •••••••••••••••••••• | DarwinDeeNot From Around Here Premium Member join:2003-05-29 Carbondale, IL |
I'm convinced!!Been using Firebird for a while now and am definitely loving it! I have always hated IE (I'm an old Netscape diehard), and Firebird is, as you would expect, very similar to Netscape 7.1 only without the annoying bugs and page display inconsistencies. I haven't found anything yet that it won't handle properly (unlike Opera) and that includes the "thumbs up" windows here at DSLR. Sure, you have to have to leave IE installed on your machine - but that doesn't mean you are forced to actually use the turkey. Get yourself a copy of Firebird and find out what a "real" browser is like... | |
| MarkyD Premium Member join:2002-08-20 Oklahoma City, OK |
MarkyD
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 2:48 pm
Nicely saidNice article, Justin. I like Firebird a lot, both on Windows and OS X. It is very fast, VERY stable and has great features. I use it as default on the XP machine. | |
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hmmmi tried firebird... but i found that it crashed alot, so i got rid of it and went back to ie | |
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Good in many ways.........but until it uses java and flash correctly it will not be my default browser. I've installed java and flash multiple times and Firebird just wont 'see' that they exist on my computer. | |
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nozeroEschew Obfuscation MVM, join:1999-12-29 InnerSanctum |
nozero
MVM,
2003-Oct-17 2:52 pm
Broken linkThe "why you should switch to firebird" link is broken. | |
| | justin..needs sleep Mod join:1999-05-28 2031 |
justin
Mod
2003-Oct-17 2:56 pm
Re: Broken linkwhoops. not any more using a better browser doesn't make me less careless. | |
| | | nozeroEschew Obfuscation MVM, join:1999-12-29 InnerSanctum |
nozero
MVM,
2003-Oct-17 3:02 pm
Re: Broken linkJust for that, I'm going to try Firebird out now... | |
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RayW Premium Member join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT |
RayW
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 2:53 pm
But sadly comments to date are pipe dreamsThe following is a perception only and has no hard facts behind it.
The US Fed Gov apparently has mandated that IE will be used. And to ensure its use they use proprietary (and dangerous according to some sources) coding that only a Microsoft product will handle (excuse the incorrect terminology). And many sites enforce M$ only by checking your browser type even if another browser works fine (proven by use of an identification modifier).
One federal help line that was called up about non-standard coding said that IE was mandated but could/would not answer any questions.
Microsoft was not dumb when they did some of the dumb insecure things they did. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if half of the issues IE has is because the better browsers would or could not add certain 'unsafe features' and M$ has the $$ to convince certain groups to use those features. Does not matter who has the best product, you have to use the proprietary one.
"Sorry, we only set our site up for M$, it works fine if you use the correct browser, good bye" Hear that enough and what happens? Most people are lazy, I know I get that way.
Written using Mozilla 1.5. | |
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I'll give it a try ...Nice article justin I'll give Firebird a try this weekend. | |
| | Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistol Premium Member join:2003-01-31 Fullerton, CA |
Re: I'll give it a try ...said by Optimized: Nice article justin
I'll give Firebird a try this weekend.
Same here. | |
| | | Radio Active |
Re: I'll give it a try ...FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASTER than IE, but only if I use it stand-alone. If I use the "Installed" one, it is as slow as IE. Must be an OS issue. If I don't use any plug ins, it's great. | |
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Dewi3 Premium Member join:2001-09-28 united kingd |
Dewi3
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 2:55 pm
I've been a mozilla user since 1.0I wish there was Galeon for Windows (Linux only it seems, alas ,alas).
Might be time to give Firebird a go then. I can't live without tabbed browsing. And mozilla pioneered this. Not used IE in ages on my Windows machine. | |
| jm8 join:2003-09-21 Graceville, FL |
jm8
Member
2003-Oct-17 2:56 pm
Firebird RocksLove Firebird, It Rocks. I've been using it since the .6.1(still on .6.1, I have a slow dialup at home) release and Mozilla before that since 1.0, in fact I never upgraded from 1.0 till Firebird. I've posted in a couple other threads around here on it, think we even convinced a few people to make the switch. BTW, you can now easily make donations to the Mozilla project, just follow this link, » mozilla.org/foundation/d ··· ate.html | |
| ryanjms join:2001-05-05 Beachwood, OH |
HmmmThe ftp server must be getting hammered, because I can't download it... | |
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Ignorance and Market Penetration is BlissfulIE sucks. NS sucks. Most browsers suck in some capacity. But the sucky browser from MS pretty much dominates the market place => » www.w3schools.com/browse ··· tats.aspMicrosoft has already won. It's sad in a way, but only geeks like us are chattering about Firebird and Opera. But here's a bigger issue. I donate time to a not-for-profit by designing/working on their web site (yeah - I know you're happy for me). I see stats similar to the ones linked above and see that 93% of average users (remember, we're not average users here at BBR) are on IE5+. So I test the pages on different browsers, but do I spend double (sometimes) the development time of the site ensuring it's 100% cross-browser compatible? No. Maybe that makes me a bad geek, but to me it just makes sense. I design for IE even though I know it isn't the greatest and has a bunch of weird, proprietary, non-W3C crap. We're stuck with IE as our standard. I'll shut up now. | |
| | •••••• | Rejected OneI Suffer From Id10t Errors Premium Member join:2003-07-31 Wilmington, DE |
Firebirdjust a couple of quick words from my idol
comicbook guy:"Best browser ever" | |
| TechyDad Premium Member join:2001-07-13 USA |
TechyDad
Premium Member
2003-Oct-17 3:20 pm
Guess I'm the minority hereI guess I'm in the minority here that actually likes IE. Then again, I set my security settings tight and use MyIE2 to get tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking, and Favorite Groups. | |
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Mozilla and FirebirdI once downloaded Mozilla and tried using that. It was nice, but I had trouble running some pages that were based on Java. I followed Mozilla's instructions concerning running Java, and although it mostly worked, some keyboard shortcuts didn't. I prefer keyboarding to mousing so I went back to IE. But I left Mozilla installed, and use it occasionally (which is hard since those keyboard shortcuts are very different).
Do I have to, or should I, uninstall Mozilla before trying to install Firebird? Are there any things to watch out for if both are installed on my box?
I'd love to move off IE, even if it means re-learning all my shortcuts, as long as the pages I visit work the same.
Please let me know, and thanks in advance for any advice. | |
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