  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | $350 million is too much A quarter of a billion dollars is simply too much. But how much is the right amount? That's difficult to tell. As long as we're all guessing, I'll wager $90 million. I'll map the country's broadband for $90 million. | |
|
 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
4 edits |  Way too much - give it to the firm who said $3.5 million
Rory Altman, director at telecommunications consulting firm Altman Vilandrie & Co., which has helped clients map broadband availability in some areas, said ... The firm could create a national broadband map for $3.5 million, and "would gladly do it for $35 million," Altman said. Hey, give him $7 million and he makes a fat profit and we save $343 million of taxpayer money. But the pols put $350 million in the plan so that they could fund some patronage in their states. They are always padding the budget to pay off their pals(who contribute to their reelection campaigns).
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
| |
|
 |  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| Re: Way too much - give it to the firm who said $3.5 million Wrong answer! We want to do this ONCE, with correct VERIFIABLE results, using a Repeatable methodology (so we can later check how well the stimuls projects met the goal.
If it takes $350M or $710M, for one firm to do it, a second to verify, and a third to audit the first 2, it's way cheaper than reaching the end of the stimulus, only to find we solved the wrong problem, in the wrong place, using the wrong method. (as an IT consultant, I can tell you CORRECTLY identifing the problem, is much harder/sometimes more expensive, than finding a workable solution, but a much better investment then randomly, throwing money at a/multiple guesses.)
The stimulus alone, isn't nearly enough INVESTMENT, to solve all the broadband "shortages" nationwide. Better to put it into surveying the problems, (including tax policies and regulation shortfalls) and planning/encourging/mandating providers to build it. | |
|
 fancydancerPerception is realityPremium
join:2002-08-28
Springfield, IL | Let the bidding start Why not give the job to the lowest bidder? 350 million? Sheesh! Seems a little steep...
Hell, I could do it for that with my laptop and Visio! 
Money is the ultimate incentive. | |
|
| | | Re: Let the bidding start said by fancydancer:Why not give the job to the lowest bidder? 350 million? Sheesh! Seems a little steep... Hell, I could do it for that with my laptop and Visio! Money is the ultimate incentive. As could I. And just to lowball, since every corporation seems to be following that trend, I'll start the bidding at $2 million, plus transportation cost for a total of $3 million. | |
|
cahiattPremium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA | Seriously.... For a cool million I'd sit at my computer all day, every day, for a year and input addresses into all the ISP's service availability search tools and map it myself....
For two million I might hire someone to help.... | |
|
| | | Re: Seriously.... said by cahiatt:For a cool million I'd sit at my computer all day, every day, for a year and input addresses into all the ISP's service availability search tools and map it myself.... For two million I might hire someone to help.... That is the problem though. A lot of these companies define by zip codes. In example if I go to comcast and input my address it says it's availabe. It's about 3 miles away from me according to their survey crew. By current standards i'm serviced and so is probably 95% of the country the way they pad it. | |
|
 kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Umm. Yeah. As long as there are people in this country, and this world, dying of curable diseases, hunger, lack of clean water....yeah, even $1 is too much for broadband mapping.
--
»www.VoIPTrunk.com | |
|
| | | Re: Umm. Yeah. It seems like the federal government would have the authority to simply demand the phone/cable/isp data rather than have to spend the money to recreate this data. | |
|
| | |
| |  NwkEWRSpare Me the Marxist B.S.Premium
join:2002-04-10
Newark, NJ | said by mlcarson:It seems like the federal government would have the authority to simply demand the phone/cable/isp data rather than have to spend the money to recreate this data. [Sigh] If it did, it would, and the authenticity/veracity of the data would still be in question. Thus, the need for an independent, trust worthy entity to gather the data.
--
BEWARE: "We can't expect the American people to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism." - Nikita Khrushchev - | |
|
| | | | Isn't this what form 477 data is used for? | |
|
| |  C_Kill The SocialistsPremium
join:2001-03-19
kudos:3 | said by mlcarson:It seems like the federal government would have the authority to simply demand the phone/cable/isp data rather than have to spend the money to recreate this data. if they did that, there wouldn't be any money for patronage payments
--
"and no matter how drunk you get .. don't lick the wall socket to test polarity..." | |
|
| | So Much for Fiscal Accountability!!!
(watched I O Usa lastnight...I'm thinking of moving to Europe...or New Zealand...)
--
Splat | |
|
 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ | circus I heard a wise politician saying "IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO GIVE SOMEBODY A LOAF OF BREAD, TAKE HIM/HER TO THE CIRCUS"
--
standard disclaimers apply. | |
|
1 edit | Here's the ridiculous part: "The map won't even be done in time to help decide where to spend much of the $7.2 billion in stimulus money earmarked for broadband."
I have a very strong suspicion that the national broadband plan to be submitted by the FCC in about 5 months will require a remapping of the US, completely disregarding whatever was ascertained during this current stimulus bill.
I have a hard time believing Blair Levin will let the carriers undermine his aspirations a 2nd time in a row by accepting the pathetic maps submitted by companies like Connected Nation.
So really, this money is pointless. It's just going to support the salaries of the various lobbying groups employed by incumbents. It's disgusting. | |
|
| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Re: Here's the ridiculous part: said by sonicmerlin:I have a very strong suspicion that the national broadband plan to be submitted by the FCC in about 5 months will require a remapping of the US, completely disregarding whatever was ascertained during this current stimulus bill. I have a hard time believing Blair Levin will let the carriers undermine his aspirations a 2nd time in a row by accepting the pathetic maps submitted by companies like Connected Nation. There should still be plenty of money left from the stimulus funds to do it right the second or third time around. | |
|
 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| Rise to the Occasion One can generally assume that if the price was set to $350 million, expenses will rise to meet that cost. I don't care if you are a three-man operation or a company with 10,000 employees. If you see that money dangled in front of you, you will figure out a way to make your billing match that amount. Even if your costs are only $3.5 million. It is called exploiting the stupid and congress fills that roll nicely.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
|
| chimera
join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Rise to the Occasion Yep, even when most of this information should be able to be purchased or requesitioned directly from carriers. Just ask them to provide a map of all addresses covered by their services and the prices associated with each. Hell, you could even pay them for this and it would still end up costing less than $350,000,000 and be more accurate than the kind of a map a shell group like connected nation would put out. | |
|
| | morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: Rise to the Occasion ISPs will not provide this information for the same reason they always balk at providing it: they are afraid of competitors getting the information and undermining their business.
I also doubt they will be upfront. It's never a good idea to let the fox guard the hen house. Our existing broadband situation is very telling in how things unfold under that situation. | |
|
| |  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | The carriers also rarely "map" the information. They just compile by address with no survey, coordinate grid, PLSS, or lat/long information attached to that address.
Matching up addresses to coordinates with precision is awful expensive (often more than $2/address). | |
|
| |
| | | | Re: Rise to the Occasion This is a bit offtopic, but your signature is wrong. | |
|
| | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Re: Rise to the Occasion Lets fix it.
Obama misspoke, yet again.. His public option forces people into paying more for less coverage, and provides government paid abortion and euthanization while denying treatment and coverage to many others. Read the fine print, for a refreshing appreciation for the simplicity of your cell phone contract | |
|
| | I say Give it to ACORN...
hehehe | |
|
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| IMO This should be realtively simple:
1. Get a list of addresses serviced (addresses where customers currently have internet service) from the ISPs. If you want to check speeds and prices, you know those addresses will provide reasonable accurate results.
2. Plot the addresses on a map. Interpolate...if you have broadband and the person two doors down had broadband your neighbor probably does too.
3. Take a random sampling of internet users in a given area and ask them how their internet is.
4. Take a more dense random sampling of non-internet users (or folks that aren't on "the lists") and see what their options are.
5. Release the information on 2-4 to the public at large. Keep the information from 1 confidential so companies will play along.
I'll bet the whole thing could be done for a cool $20M. | |
|
| marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: IMO As I mentioned below, step 2 is the ridiculously expensive part.
Geographic interpolation is not straight forward either. If you neighbor has a 1/2 mile driveway heading straight up a hill, and you and the person 2 doors down are on either side of the driveway...
Or you have broadband, the guy a half mile away has a broadband, but the guy 1/4 mile in between is on the other side of the Mississippi from you and the other side of a state forest from the other guy.
In other words, you have to gather breakline and cutline data before you can interpolate. An extremely good price for that would be $100/sq mi (we've never gotten below $200/sq mi, but I figure you could get a lot of price breaks if you start looking at statewide contracts). The United States is 3.78 million sq miles. Generating break lines for even half that would suck up the entire budget.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|
| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: IMO I'm talking about city-block interpolation. For more rural areas you just assume that the people who don't have broadband right now can't get it...or you ask them. | |
|
| | | marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: IMO Still the same problem. Plenty of cities have major rivers, canyons, cliffs, hills, interstates. All of which are barriers to interpolation that you have to account for before interpolating (even more fun, this type of information gets significantly more expensive in urban areas). | |
|
marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Addressing... Now if only Altman Vilandrie did not put out complete crap based on 2000 TIGER line addresses.
Our county spends over $2 mil/year maintaining our parcel addressing, and that's below average for a metro county. Rural counties normally don't even maintain parcel address in a computerized format.
And that's where the catch is. You can get a list of addresses, but good luck finding out where those addresses really are (Hint: Google et al actually have no clue where residential addresses are really located; they just guess based on a road locations.)
e-NC might spend $275,000 to maintain their broadband map, but they also require every muni county to hand over all of their parcel addressing for free; one of the few states to do that. Most counties can change other government entities upwards of five figures for parcel address databases (if they have them).
Even if you are really optimistic and assume that counties will hand over their address data for only $5k each on average, you are already up to $150M just to pay for accurate parcel address points. And this still does not get you the location of any apartment units, which might have to be manually generated.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
|
 NickDPremium
join:2000-11-17
Princeton Junction, NJ | How about this? You pay each person in the US $20 if they truthfully answer a survey asking what broadband services are available in their house. That would be much cheaper and more accurate. | |
|
|
|
·
·
