Municipal Report San Francisco Municipal Broadband? San Francisco is spending hundreds of millions to dig up the streets for a new sewer system, leaving some city officials wondering why they don't just lay fiber and get into the telecom business. As this San Francisco Examiner story explores, the construction is the perfect opportunity to upgrade the city's broadband infrastructure. Since they're already digging up the streets, Supervisor Tom Ammiano wonders why they shouldn't just get into the telecom game. Naturally the idea is triggering the same debate we've seen in countless other regions. SBC spokesman John Britton claims that many muni-cities "have not been so happy with the results," stating that "What they would be doing is spending taxpayers' money to duplicate and compete with the same services that already exist in The City right now." Mike Jackman, head of the California Internet Service Providers Association, supports the push, opining that "Competition is a good thing," though "if you already own a monopoly it's not a good thing."San Francisco planners have begun conducting a feasibility study to determine the appropriate course of action, and have begun eyeballing other municipal operations to quickly educate themselves. Of particular interest is municipal operations in Utah, where a multi-city network is set to begin construction in January. At the heart of Utah's municipal push is The Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency, or UTOPIA, which was born in April of 2002 after the state declared municipal competition legal. Unlike San Francisco's efforts, Utopia was developed as a reaction to a lack of broadband deployment in the state, and is considerably broader in scope. The group is spearheading a massive effort to wire Salt Lake City and 17 surrounding cities together under one massive fiber umbrella. When completed, the network should encompass nearly 250,000 households and 35,000 businesses, and could cost more than half a billion dollars to complete. Converge Network Digest has an excellent breakdown of both the legal and technical specifics on the massive project.
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 |  |  OmegaDisplaced OhioanPremium join:2002-07-30 Cheyenne, WY | Re: Overcapacity? you want high prices? Compeition is good. | |
|  |  |  hambone6666Sigmarick Said Arse join:2001-02-13 Stamford, CT | Re: Overcapacity? said by Omega: Compeition is good.
No, I absolutely agree with you. I am just saying that with MCI almost out of bankruptcy, I think the prices will continue to stay low and for the state to spend all this money and probably not get much if any on return...well, seems like that money to go to better things. Like the schools. -- "That vulnerability is completely theoretical." - Microsoft Technical Support | |
|  |  |  |  trisomyPremium join:2002-05-23 Katy, TX | Re: Overcapacity? said by hambone6666:
I am just saying that with MCI almost out of bankruptcy...
A large portion of this situation was due to fiscal mismanagement.
said by hambone6666:
I think the prices will continue to stay low and for the state to spend all this money and probably not get much if any on return...
Agreed however perhaps they can lease the Network to CLEC's or for that matter ILEC's as well.
said by hambone6666:
...well, seems like that money to go to better things. Like the schools.
Agreed however fibre infrastructure to the schools is likewise a 'school' investment.
Hambone, I'm not trying to be contrary because your points are well taken...this build-out appears risky but given the ILEC's and RBOC's attitude toward FTTH, the fact that they are already tearing up streets, frankly that investment in last mile is where there is a paucity of fibre options, and that SF of all places could use high speed infrastructure, perhaps they are actually mitigating risk? | |
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 |  jdir join:2001-05-04 Santa Clara, CA | There is no such thing as overcapacity. Give me 10Gbps and I'll use it up. The big problems is not over capacity, it's availability and affordability. | |
|  |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ kudos:4 | Overcapacity yes. Overcapacity in the last mile? HELL NO. if theres Overcapacity then why is everyone capping this/capping that... -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|  |  | | Overcapacity?
You got overcapacity?
I got 28.8 kbps dialup. Please send me some of your overcapacity. | |
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 53059959Temp banned from BBR more then anyone join:2002-10-02 PwnZone | go 4 it you probably won't get this chance until a few decades... so I say go for it. the fact of the matter is, people aren't going to give up the internet anytime soon. it's certainly a risk. I'd put my stock in it. | |
|  Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| IMO, the way to go I think this is the only way many people will see fiber to their home in their lifetime. The current regulatory mess will take years to straighten out and in the meantime, the bells are only pretending to be interested in fiber.
The biggest issue concerning broadband seems to be the infrastructure. The bells "own" the copper infrastructure and are going to try to wring every last cent out of it; they don't like to share and have done nearly everything in their power to prevent competition.
Let municipalities build the infrastructure, then lease access to whoever wants to be a provider - cable and the bells are welcome to play, just like anybody else.
If you think you will see fiber to your home from the bells anytime soon, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. | |
|  |  ronpinImagine Reality join:2002-12-06 Nirvana | Re: IMO, the way to go said by nasadude: If you think you will see fiber to your home from the bells anytime soon, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
That's what I thought -- but I had to eat my words. I found corroborating evidence, from several unrelated sources that Verizon really is going to initiate FTTP in Texas next year. Whoda thunk? | |
|  |  |  deadmeatPremium join:2003-03-21 Sonoma, CA | Re: IMO, the way to go said by ronpin: That's what I thought -- but I had to eat my words. I found corroborating evidence, from several unrelated sources that Verizon really is going to initiate FTTP in Texas next year. Whoda thunk?
FTTP isn't FTTH  | |
|  |  |  |  ronpinImagine Reality join:2002-12-06 Nirvana | Re: IMO, the way to go Yes FTTP is not FTTH but it's close enough to stop me from offering FTTH. Verizon will offer VDSL which is actually faster than most current FTTH implementations -- although fiber is capable of much faster speeds. FTTP will block private FTTH ventures -- its just to risky to compete with a behemoth. | |
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 |  EFuddPremium join:2001-09-08 Brownsville, OH | I think nasadude is on to something. I also remember someone else having the same idea. I think its a good idea to have tax payer money lay and own the fiber infrastructure, then let anyone who wants to offer any services they want over the fiber. Whether that's internet service, digital tv, phone, or something that someone hasn't thought up yet.
Sounds like a great way to encourage innovation and competition. -- Do you SetiAtHome | |
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 jdir join:2001-05-04 Santa Clara, CA | SF should put fiber conduit
Personally, I think SF should put extra fiber conduit so that if in a year or two down the road, they can lease the fiber conduit to ISP or go into business for themself. That way, they dont have to dig up the street and rupture other pipes. | |
|  |  |  Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: I am moving! I wouldn't get too excited. I have to think if the incumbents can launch a coordinated strike and PR campaign to crush three small cities in Illinois from going Muni, a large city political system where money talks even louder doesn't stand much of a chance. Depends, I suppose, on the political leadership.... | |
|  |  BeeperPart Of The Problem join:2001-09-27 Dayton, OH
| said by Dan: If San Fransico goes FTTH, Im moving there for sure. I want to live in a infastructure that can do this
The median home cost in the San Francisco bay area is US$447,000, or C$595,000.
It might be cheaper to lease half a dozen T1 lines at your existing residence in Canada than move to San Francisco. [text was edited by author 2003-11-05 15:34:41] | |
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 | | I hope they install it.
I hope they install this, I would love to get 100mbit speeds over fibre! =D | |
|  plkLil' Duffer Burger BarnPremium join:2002-04-20 Ogden, IA | Depends on marketing I think if SF markets it as a reseller and doesn't tell anyone they are going into the business it is more likely to get less resistance from the monopolies. Then once it's done the can do both. Lease some capacity, start their own or both. Never the less, the city would be missing a huge chance by not burying SOME fiber while the streets are open. It will be 75 years before these particular streets are open like this again. I am really surprised someone hasn't agreed to share the cost of it. I sure would it will be needed! | |
|  |  | | Re: Depends on marketing hahaha, its true. Rent and houses are super expensive. You get a house 2 stories tall with 1 million dollars. | |
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