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Canadian BPL
Hydro-Québec to launch trials
by Karl Bode 02:13PM Monday Nov 24 2003
Hydro-Québec joins efforts to provide high-speed internet service via power-lines. Already using their fiber network to monitor power levels and control traffic lights, the company is planning to launch broadband trials in January with full deployments several years later. This CBC news article is filled with the standard fare: analysts thrilled about the potential of having another broadband competitive front, and engineers concerned that the trials could result in a city-wide interference nightmare for radio hobbyists and emergency communications. The CBC website also offers this video report (.mov format).

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Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Not going there

Here we go again with yet another round of radio defenders versus broadband wanters. I hope this won't turn into another ham bashing fest.

I challenge the broadband wanters to submit their posts minus the usual ham disparaging content. Please leave out the "hams can go to hell" kind of stuff; it's been over done.

I wonder if Hydro-Québec is a visitor of BBR and, if so, do they care? Or are they just money-hungry?

I look forward to seeing how their deployment is any different from any other BPL that has been tried and has failed throughout the world. If the artcle stated "fiber on the line", I missed it and my post is moot.

It's no secret that I am against BPL because of interference issues. I have been involved with more than my share of flame wars and I know this is a hot topic.

Cheers.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com
wilburyan

join:2002-08-01
Reviews:
·Shaw

Re: Not going there

"Hydro-Québec to launch trials"

And Trials is what they are. If any problems come up and the problems outweigh the benefits then it should be and most likely will be canned. If the problem is only a couple HAM ops are getting some static then they will have to suck it up. I mean almost everything throws off some kinda interference. When I use my cordless phone and the microwave is running, behold, my phone gets static... it happens, and I deal with it.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

1 recommendation

Re: Not going there

Now imagine if that static was constant, and eminating from multiple directions....your Microwave is only on for short periods....
Radio Freak

join:2003-11-27

go here

If you are against BPL post this gif on your web page

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

1 edit

Re: go here

said by Radio Freak:
If you are against BPL post this gif on your web page

Which GIF? There was no GIF in that post, nor a link to one. Are you talking to me or Karl? I didn't see his statement againts BPL; I am assuming you are speaking to me. Please post the GIF; if it is appropriate and you are indeed speaking to me I will put it up.

Cheers.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com
Radio Freak

join:2003-11-27

Re: go here

Sorry I tried to post it as a click but the HTML didnt work
Here it is:
»ve7lgt1.tripod.com/nobpl2.gif
Radio Freak

join:2003-11-27

Re: go here

and if this won't work just go here:
ve7lgt1.tripod.com

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

2 edits

Re: go here

I like it. I have added it to my site: »folsomtech.com on my index page and on my links page. I have also hypered it to your site, so some of the "MASSIVE" traffic I get will spillover onto yours

Cheers.

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA
said by wilburyan:
"Hydro-Québec to launch trials"

And Trials is what they are. If any problems come up and the problems outweigh the benefits then it should be and most likely will be canned. If the problem is only a couple HAM ops are getting some static then they will have to suck it up. I mean almost everything throws off some kinda interference. When I use my cordless phone and the microwave is running, behold, my phone gets static... it happens, and I deal with it.

I agree with you about almost everything emitting interference. But you mention sporadic interference; when our friends to the north begin trials, the results will, hopefully, be widely publicized. Hopefully, we hams will be proven wrong about the deleterious effect of BPL on a world-wide scale, and that interference will be slight to non-existant, but I have my doubts... There are trials in Manassas which are ongoing and the subject of some hot debate.

If they use 5 GHz BPL, then there will be none of that, and local interference(if any)is much more easily mitigated.

Don't get me wrong, though... I hope that broadband can be brought to everyone in the world who wants it.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com

Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Re: Not going there

Do new cordless phones and wi-fi(a) use 5Ghz spectrum?
I wonder what kind of interference exists with BPL.
Maybe Quebec trials can resolved them.
I would like to see some competition and prices dropping, speeds increasing.
--
We are the Borg! Resistance Is Futile! You Will Be Assimilated!

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Re: Not going there

said by Tomek:
Do new cordless phones and wi-fi(a) use 5Ghz spectrum?
I wonder what kind of interference exists with BPL.
Maybe Quebec trials can resolved them.
I would like to see some competition and prices dropping, speeds increasing.

This may be an incomplete response, but the info I have is:

There are, in the US, cordless phones that use 5 GHz; don't know about our friends to the north.

It has been pointed out by other posters in other threads that 802.11(a) is mainly an inside, shorter range(not sure, but FHSS is the spreading scheme-I think-versus DSSS) utilization of Wi-Fi, so interference is not likely to be difficult to mitigate.

I would also like to see prices down and speeds/throughput up.

I would hazard a guess that there will be MANY eyes on this one.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com
TheNerdShow

join:2003-11-16
Anchorage, AK

Re: Not going there

I hope they get the bugs worked out (so I can try something similar in my neighborhood.) The last time I checked, certain kinds of low-power carrier current broadcasting can be done legally without a license. Unfortunately those frequencies are probably too low to be useful.
--
Consultant. Programmer. Author of SafeTasks for XP. Site Admin for: »comptune.com, »anch.org, »nerds.tk, »mixculture.org, and »eq2.us

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Re: Not going there

said by TheNerdShow:
I hope they get the bugs worked out (so I can try something similar in my neighborhood.) The last time I checked, certain kinds of low-power carrier current broadcasting can be done legally without a license. Unfortunately those frequencies are probably too low to be useful.

Sure, but watch out for part 15! There are many technologies and networking topologies that utilize powerlines in the residence, but the power levels needed and ancillary equipment required(repeaters) make it unfeasible to implement by the private sector. There are intercoms you can get from radio shack that use FM, but those are fairly narrowband.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com
str7

join:2003-07-04
canada
said by Radio Active:

I wonder if Hydro-Québec is a visitor of BBR and, if so, do they care? Or are they just money-hungry?

Hydro-Quebec is a government property. The current government is money hungry though so that's a possibility.

CheeseWare
Premium
join:2003-04-24
Burnaby, BC

2 edits

BPL humour in Quebec

Speaking with experience, people in Quebec can have a warped sense of humour including the PR department of HQ. It will be interesting to watch how Industry Canada based in Ottawa will handle the dead horse reincarnation in Montreal and Quebec City now for a matter that some may deem to be of provincial sovereinty. Also odd that this news was first reported out of Toronto. On the other hand, I will give Hydro Quebec due credits for holding their section of the grid during the recent eastern black out and for having invested in hydro renewable energy in such a large way. I trust that they are smart enough to not deploy BPL and are just playing. A lot can happen in seven years.

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Re: BPL humour in Quebec

But this topic/horse is still good for a few more whacks, don't you think, CheeseWare?

I was hoping you would pop in.

CheeseWare
Premium
join:2003-04-24
Burnaby, BC

Re: BPL humour in Quebec

Not whacks but I can definitely now see this Red Green BPL mobile car project hanging from the powerline with some duct tape with the capture; "I know it is ugly, but we have found a cheap way to deploy these BPL repeaters while containing and testing interference". They can then ship to Hollywood and demonstrate that doe can be made on BPL.

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Re: BPL humour in Quebec

I wonder if that would be "Made for cable" or "Made for BPL"?

"Coming soon to a PC near you"!

What an epic.

CheeseWare
Premium
join:2003-04-24
Burnaby, BC

Re: BPL humour in Quebec

This is when we need Terminator-4 made in California. I do not think that Arnie would let the import in without a good fight. I am telling him: start with BPL and keep it in your backyard . Should be worth a few GigaWatts from Quebec or BC.
Radio Freak

join:2003-11-27
My concern is that Bylingual Broadband will take up twice the spectrum . But than again Quebec has the language police to prevent the use of english HIHI EH!!!

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Re: BPL humour in Quebec

said by Radio Freak:
My concern is that Bylingual Broadband will take up twice the spectrum . But than again Quebec has the language police to prevent the use of english HIHI EH!!!

Welcome to BBR!
N0JCG

join:2003-07-18
Minneapolis, MN

Message is getting out

Looks like the message on interference is getting out. At least this article mentions interference in the first release, rather than in a followup.

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA

I dunno much about RF

But I wonder if those theories we read over the weekend about placing magnets in microwaves to control interference can somehow be used to help control RF interference from BPL.
--
Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network »www.theanimenetwork.com/index.html And something pretty good from the Cooler »elev.ru.orebro.se/ru0369/HAHAHAHA.MPG

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Re: I dunno much about RF

said by oliphant5:
But I wonder if those theories we read over the weekend about placing magnets in microwaves to control interference can somehow be used to help control RF interference from BPL.

Good idea; I nominate you to be in charge of that.

J/K. But I bet the size of those magnets would be soooooooooo big that they would dwarf even the largest hydro-electric dam.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA

Re: I dunno much about RF

If they worked at all, you would only need them in areas where the emissions cause problems.
todays0

join:2003-09-08
Visalia, CA

Re: I dunno much about RF

I heard that the AM/FM broadcast industry's main group is getting on the boat for a vote against BPL because of interference also. Apparently in some of the test locations it totally wipes out peoples reception. So much for listening to your favorite talk show on AM radio. "A"

oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA

Re: I dunno much about RF

I'll revolt...I'm a talk-radio junkie.

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA
said by todays0:
I heard that the AM/FM broadcast industry's main group is getting on the boat for a vote against BPL because of interference also. Apparently in some of the test locations it totally wipes out peoples reception. So much for listening to your favorite talk show on AM radio. "A"

Nice to hear not only hams are against this. Kinda lonely working in a vacuum.
--
I once accidentally spilled spot remover on my dog and he disappeared. Take a look at these sites: »www.prepaidlegal.com/info/kfolsom (Pre-Paid Legal Memberships)»www.prepaidlegal.com/go/kfolsom (Business Opportunity)»www.folsomtech.com
Radio Freak

join:2003-11-27
Try putting some shotgun shells in your microwave it will silence everything.

OZZYHEAD

join:2000-08-24

Gimme Speed Over The Power Lines!!!!!!!!!!!

Bring it on!!Yehaaaaa!!!!!!

SR_BMET

@mo24.xx.112.xx.chart

Re: Gimme Speed Over The Power Lines!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe I just sat here and read all these !!
I am not a HAM or even live up there but I just keep wondering what's going to Happen with the Cat that got let out of the bag in two different ways.
1) The Fogal Transistor, I would assume it's getting hidden deep inside any of the New systems that are starting to work at Multi-GigaHertz speeds. But it should lend itself to Powerline commuinactions also.
2) I watched, more then once, a quick little blurb on TV (either the Discovery Channel or TLC) about (With Video coverage of the LIVE Demo) FASTER then LIGHT SPEED communication thru solids. It was a German University or Company but they were having a HARD time getting people to believe them EVEN WITH BEING ABLE TO REPEATEDLY DEMONSTRATE IT !
SOOO ! I would guess that Power Line communications will be here sooner or later and without interference to Other Technologies.
JUST A THOUGHT !!!

••••

rf_engineer

join:2003-08-04
USA

Obligatory FAQ Link Post :-)

For all the new folks stopping by, »www.qrpis.org/~k3ng/bpl.html

•••••