New BPL Trials

That I enjoyed that article.

... the two sides should be working together so that a standard for BPL will be adopted that won't interfere with HAM radio spectrum, and will still allow the technology to come to market. My understanding from earlier articles would be if the right solution/technology is adopted (above 5Ghz?) then the interference issue wouldn't be a problem.

Does anybody know how fast the speeds of BPL are? I'm getting 2Mb/128Kb with my Charter Pipeline service.

that would be nice to know!

good question. I have only seen one article that mentioned speeds and I got the impression the reporter got it wrong - unfortunately, I can't remember the speeds quoted. It seemed either way too low or way too high, I forget which.

If the FCC wasn't f-ing up regulation (or lack thereof) of our other potential broadband choice, BPL wouldn't be such a hot ticket item.

512kbps (under optimum conditions)

Maximum potential connection speed is 142 mbps. I am not really sure what the ham heads are complaining about. The noise level doesnt come up that dang much.

Up to 3 mbps !! Read this !! And I only live 40 miles from Boise and have Idaho Power as my electric provider !!!
»www.idacomm.com/bpl/

I REALLY want to be a tryout for this.

Can you imagin it? Real time video conferencing, uncompressed calls. Anyway I think I'd be canidate for it.

Guess I'll read the aritcle now.

First post woot!

In the press release they call this "high speed wireless"...is it BPL to APs or what? If it's just wireless, what's the problem?

The impression that I got was that it was simply interference from the lines themselves, nothing 802.11 perse. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm kind of confused as well...

I've read previous BPL articles over the past year where HAMs had legitimate concerns since BPL was causing substantial disruption.

It's just this particular deployment I'm confused about...namely, what is wireless about it. What would be cool IMO is APs on the poles if that is possible, using their right of way to deploy...but as it stands now with the interference I'm not too supportive of BPL...even when we didn't have BB where I live.

NLOS WISP would be a better answer to last mile I think.

Amperion uses BPL (broadband over power line) between the substation and the transformer in front of the house, then Wi-Fi from the transformer location to the user in the house.

This is one way to avoid the challenges getting a BPL signal through or around the transformer. Transformers have high impedances for radio frequencies and tend to "soak up" most of the BPL signal.

Other vendors either have special couplers to bypass the transformer or put an amplifier right at the transformer to boost the signal.

A.B.

Cool. Thanks for the clarification.

Sure wish I took the time to get the code
part of my license. I hear that BPL has
problems with both ways. Coming and going.

So I could call CQ directly at the BPL power
line and screw up broadband. And since I won't
get a reply, because all I will hear is STATIC from
the BPL line. I will not fear loosing my license
for broadcasting. If I get a letter from the FCC
I will state where and when I was calling. And suggest
maybe all the static I was receiving must have been
from BPL.

Every ham across the nation near BPL should protest
in this fashion. And I dare a BPL rep to come knocking
on my front door to complain.

N2NBY k

I'd just like to say that this attitude is not representative of the vast majority of law abiding, courteous hams who gladly donate their time and use of equipment to serve the community and country.

We can fight BPL with technical knowledge. We don't need to resort to vigilante justice.

73
(a fellow ham).

While I agree we should fight with knowledge, it seems we are being out done by money. No one wants to listen about the problems but on the Return Of Investment.

Look at VA. They are EXPANDING! How can they do this when there are reports of interference?

My fear is the when a legitimate CQ goes out and takes out BPL transmissions. Then, Part 15 rules will become very clear. Unfortunately, there will be and ultimate push to exempt BPL from Part 15 and cause an even greater headache.

Oh, believe me, I DO plan on continuing my HF operations, even if BPL rolls out in my area. In fact, when I buy my house, I'm making sure that I get as much legal limit signal out as possible. After all, I am a ham and it's my right to operate my equipment.

If unlicensed Part 15 BPL is interfered with by legitimate, licensed ham radio transmissions, they've gotta remember that Part 15 states that:

"(1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation. "

BTW, I was just commenting on the fact that the previous poster was saying that he will violate the terms of his license to protest BPL. I don't think that risking losing your license will win anything with regards to BPL or any other cause.

I would really like to know! If I could operate
in HF bands (which I can't and won't). I would
be following the rules for safe and legal operation
of my station. Cable has made a joke of 145.250MHZ
and everything up and down a bit from that freq.

BPL is subject to the same rules as the cable systems.
They are to operate a "CLOSED" system. That's why
the cable companies "or any I have dealt with" are
happy to know of any EGRESS of signal. They fix any
bad spots and improve signal.

I am not about to change my radio habits (stopping or
abandoning operation). As long as I operate as per
the regs. I can do as I want within my license class.
I have seen too much giveback and cave-in occur within
the hobby. It's not only the hams who are suffering.
EMS and police bands are being wiped out.

The idea that ham radio is obsolete. I would loved to
find that photo of the fire marshal smashing his cell
phone of the car motor hood. It was the night flight
800 went down. You may ask why was he doing that?
BECAUSE HE COULD NOT GET A CHANNEL TO MAKE A CALL.
Seems all the journalists saturated the cell towers.
And this was not a wide spread disaster.

You yourself said that you would violate the regulations regarding broadcasting.

Or am I misunderstanding your post, OM?

BTW, I am not attacking you, just trying to clarify your position.

I quoted part 15 regs to say that BPL would have to accept ham radio interference, not the other way around. Hope this clarifies things a bit.

73 de AB2MH.

My pasted second paragraph:

So I could call CQ directly at the BPL power
line and screw up broadband. And since I won't
get a reply, because all I will hear is STATIC from
the BPL line. I will not fear loosing my license
for broadcasting. If I get a letter from the FCC
I will state where and when I was calling. And suggest
maybe all the static I was receiving must have been
from BPL.

----------------
I didn't' think it was an attack. This is a "Real
world" example. It would demonstrate in more than one
way that BPL technically does not work. The second and
third sentence of the paragraph really says it all. The
FCC is "more interested" in physical "evidence" rather
than protest. If all hams "stay" quite in BPL test area's.
The BPL providers can "demonstrate" they can operate without
causing ill effects. Like I said the FCC wants evidence.
I don't want BPL to get a smooth ride here. I want it to
be bumpy and rough. And I wish the hams in all of the
BPL trial areas to protest in the only legal way they
can. Use there licenses.

quote:

---

So I could call CQ directly at the BPL power
line and screw up broadband. And since I won't
get a reply, because all I will hear is STATIC from
the BPL line. I will not fear loosing my license
for broadcasting. If I get a letter from the FCC
I will state where and when I was calling. And suggest
maybe all the static I was receiving must have been
from BPL.

---

IMHO, it would be counterproductive for amateur radio operators to operate with the specific intent to cause interference under any circumstances. As BPL deploys, if it is as susceptible as the equipment tested by AMRAD in MD, interference will be common enough from routine amateur operating.

And, IMHO, intentionally coupling a "Part 97" signal into the power lines would be a rules violation. While Part 97 of the FCC rules has no specific limit on conducted emissions from amateur stations, we do have a requirement to operate our stations using good engineering practice. Clearly, a transmitter that coupled significant power into the power lines would not, IMHO, be using good engineering practice.

It is not something I would do with my license.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

said by fifty nine:

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I quoted part 15 regs to say that BPL would have to accept ham radio interference, not the other way around. Hope this clarifies things a bit.

73 de AB2MH.

---

This is the part that scares me the most.

How do we know that the power companies won't cry to the FCC? How do we know that the FCC won't listen to the money and exclude BPL from Part 15.

73's

said by moonpuppy:

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said by fifty nine:

---

I quoted part 15 regs to say that BPL would have to accept ham radio interference, not the other way around. Hope this clarifies things a bit.

73 de AB2MH.

---

This is the part that scares me the most.

How do we know that the power companies won't cry to the FCC? How do we know that the FCC won't listen to the money and exclude BPL from Part 15.

73's

---

I hate to admit it, but you're right.

What can I say. The US Government is already a huge corporate sellout, and I don't expect the FCC to be any different, unfortunately.

»www.arcells.com/

I read their site and they seem to operate in the 5Ghz range. They also seem to have the ability to use power lines as their transport layer until the last mile.

DOCSIS over power lines. Very interesting...

The insignificant hams are like the horse and buggies shortly after the motorcar was invented, mostly in the way.

Beep-beep, get the heck off the road, time to move into the next century.

I've never heard "Breaker Breaker" on any frequency except between 26 and 28 MHz. Perhaps you have us confused with another service?

Part of the problem is that the general public has the wrong impression of what ham radio is actually about. We're not "good buddies" or truckers.

As far as the "horse and buggy" argument goes, most hame don't spend their time pounding away at a morse code key using a home made transmitter with a 6L6 borrowed from the family radio. These days we send pictures, text messages and data over the airwaves. We spend our time training ourselves to get ready in case we have another 9-11 style attack, or a huge blackout a la blackout of 2003.

said by PthirusPubis6:

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The insignificant hams are like the horse and buggies shortly after the motorcar was invented, mostly in the way.

Beep-beep, get the heck off the road, time to move into the next century.

---

Never mind.

mmmmm....ic-7800....

*sells kidney*

said by PthirusPubis6:

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The insignificant hams are like the horse and buggies shortly after the motorcar was invented, mostly in the way.

Beep-beep, get the heck off the road, time to move into the next century.

---

Trolling trolling trolling....

Yeah, we HAMS are so insignificant. We come up with most of the technology you take for granted in communications but we don't contribute.

Grow up.

Many people seem to ignore the fact that ham radio is not the only service operating on HF. I can explain this all night long, but I think that these guys do a much better job at it.

You are so correct. While we make a lot of noise these agencies are in the background doing their part in this issue. Most of the agency involved make heavy use of Amateur radio resources in time of trouble.

No one is going to pay attention to licensed Amateur Radio Operators until the next national crisis like 9/11. The only effective communication system that is fully 100% operational when the lights go out is the Ham radio.

You say you need to get a message to your kid in Iraq as fast as possible. You say you're stranded in a remote location and you need help. You say your wife is about to give birth and you can't contact the EMT or hospital. You say your in-law is on a ship in the middle of the Atlantic and you can't contact him

The Ham doesn't need a $3000 radio or a 200 foot tower. All he or she needs is a tree, a wire, a key and a battery to get help for you.
The lowly Ham has one of the most important part-time jobs in the US.
Maybe this is why they are licensed by the FCC like a TV station and computer owners are not?

That tangled mess on the pole in the picture says it all. Any kind of wired communication will be considered "quant" in the future ( 20-50 yrs ). I hope cold fusion power units becomes a reality in my lifetime, at least home AC turbines. We can then cut down AC lines and all that mess that a power grid brings.

I've already cut my Pots line down. As soon as dish/satellite technology matures, the cable line is next.

said by MichelBolton:

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That tangled mess on the pole in the picture says it all. Any kind of wired communication will be considered "quant" in the future ( 20-50 yrs ). I hope cold fusion power units becomes a reality in my lifetime, at least home AC turbines. We can then cut down AC lines and all that mess that a power grid brings.

I've already cut my Pots line down. As soon as dish/satellite technology matures, the cable line is next.

---

Check this out.....»www.norwall.com/generac2.htm

just an off the wall thought but if this takes off do you get the special modems from the company and if you do and have a laptop can you just 'plug in' anywhere theres an outlet and use the BB as long as you have the modem? if so that would be sweeet. bring the modem with your laptop and connect anywhere there is a plug in...anyway just a though

said by representing:

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just an off the wall thought but if this takes off do you get the special modems from the company and if you do and have a laptop can you just 'plug in' anywhere theres an outlet and use the BB as long as you have the modem? if so that would be sweeet. bring the modem with your laptop and connect anywhere there is a plug in...anyway just a though

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I don't know, but Verizon now has EV-DO in some markets, and 1xRTT CDMA in most major areas of the country if you want to truly surf mobile.

I sincerely doubt that you could use BPL "mobile" though. One would assume that they would divide the areas into network segments for easier manageability.

But as a ham, you could, of course, just participate in the HSMM project if you want to experiment with high speed data.

I am really curious about this, what is a good solution for the problems of getting broadband to rural areas. In addition small markets that don't have good competition. I came from a rural area, and I remember it wasn't until 1996 I think until we got an ISP in our area. I think satelite is a really poor solution, and was curious if anyone had any better ideas?