Penny BlackGates says spam 'solved' in two years ( old news - 12:44PM Sunday Jan 25 2004) tags: spamAccording to Bill Gates (who will soon be a Knight - dragons and enemies of the kingdom, tremble), the world will be Spam free by 2006. "Two years from now, spam will be solved," Gates recently informed a group of World Forum participants. According to this Associated Press report, Microsoft is working on a variety of solutions, but Gates seems to put the most stock in their Penny Black initiative. The idea, which has been suggested by others, is to temporarily slow down the machine of an e-mail sender, requiring it to solve a slightly time consuming (10-20 second) cryptographic puzzle to communicate with a particular recipient. Of course Gates admits in the AP article his prognostications aren't always on the mark. "They kicked our butts," Gates says of Google and his predictions Microsoft would dominate the world of search engines.
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- Verizon To Finally Crack Down On Spam
- Your Constitutional Right To Spam
- FTC Shuts Down 'Rogue' ISP
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b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
1 edit | Beware I'm more worried about what MS has in mind, for the freedom of all, than the actual results of not being spammed any longer... | |
|  | niplet
join:2003-10-04
Antioch, TN
| Re: Beware why are you truely worried about microsoft?
do they have too much money? do they just charge to much?
or is it bc they are the king of the hill and everyone and their mother wants a crack at them and will do anything to take them down? which for one is why the majority virus and worms and trojan horses target MS specifically.
i am just curious is all, have asked several people this and i could not get a good logical answer other than what i just wrote.
i personally and learning Linux and VRML, i like MS and i also know that i have choices to use other software if i so choose and i personally see nothing wrong with what he is doing.
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xbox live gamer tag niplet; please down load bandwidth controller and enable traffic shaping. »www.bandwidthcontroller.com | |
| | |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·TTNet
| Re: Beware said by niplet  :
do they have too much money? do they just charge to much?
or is it bc they are the king of the hill and everyone and their mother wants a crack at them and will do anything to take them down? which for one is why the majority virus and worms and trojan horses target MS specifically.
They do have the money, how they got there is not the point of this topic, nor was it a part of my "fear" (too big a word).
The resentment many of us have for MS, is due to their "glutton-like" business strategies and their costly and unreliable software. Microsoft is the king of the hill because most of us have grown up using their environment in schools, work or home computers. Having the ability to choose your favorite OS was not a choice we had.
Furthermore, most virus, worms, trojans are not written to take down the company, they're written to take over a system or group of systems for the cracker's specific ends.
Now like I said, it is not paranoiac to pay attention to Microsoft every moves, rumors and all, when one company can affect the daily lives (activities) of millions of users.
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Bush&Co = BrainDead 2 *Get Smart in 2004, Vote NO to Bush&Co.* | |
| | | | youngo
join:2001-07-03
| Re: Beware said by b_zen :
Microsoft is the king of the hill because most of us have grown up using their environment in schools, work or home computers. Having the ability to choose your favorite OS was not a choice we had.
sounds like, "the resolution and frame rate of tv's are king of the hill because msot of us have grown up using the settings. Having the ability to choose 1600x1200 @ 120fps was not a choice we had." | |
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b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: Beware Have you read what I was referring to? Also, english isn't my mothertongue... | |
| | | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| said by youngo :
sounds like, "the resolution and frame rate of tv's are king of the hill because msot of us have grown up using the settings. Having the ability to choose 1600x1200 @ 120fps was not a choice we had."
When I was working for General Dynamics in Fort Worth, Texas back around 1993, we used a new program called Microsoft Mail (I think that was the name). It worked fine in small companies, but not for our 25000 person company.
For over 6 months we kept getting promises that the fix was coming to let us use this powerful tool the way the spec said it could be used. One day the manager for computer support got on the phone with a manager from microsoft (after plowing through the peons) and was told that we were not getting our promised upgrade because the programmers were pulled for the kill Netscape project (a paraphrase, but close enough to what I personally heard).
Now you might ask what does that story have to do with this thread? Nothing, except to point out that Gates makes his own rules, and anyone who gets in the way will be crushed. If Bill did not have to worry about the backlash, he could crush open-source and Linux without thinking twice by his control over the majority of that type of system. Just look at the minor effort he expends overseas to keep big organizations from changing over. If he wants a true DRM system with M$ getting royalties and controlling access, then we will see it. And as another post here shows, he learned his lesson with Clinton and is buying politicians.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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skitshivets
Premium
join:2004-01-24
Plano, TX
| Re: Beware said by RayW :
said by youngo :
sounds like, "the resolution and frame rate of tv's are king of the hill because msot of us have grown up using the settings. Having the ability to choose 1600x1200 @ 120fps was not a choice we had."
When I was working for General Dynamics in Fort Worth, Texas back around 1993, we used a new program called Microsoft Mail (I think that was the name). It worked fine in small companies, but not for our 25000 person company.
For over 6 months we kept getting promises that the fix was coming to let us use this powerful tool the way the spec said it could be used. One day the manager for computer support got on the phone with a manager from microsoft (after plowing through the peons) and was told that we were not getting our promised upgrade because the programmers were pulled for the kill Netscape project (a paraphrase, but close enough to what I personally heard).
Must have been later than '93. For a company of 20K plus, IBM profs (sic) was still king of hill although very proprietary with Banyan mail having the ability to serve almost that many due to the advanced vines NOS and ccMail was emerging as the (client/server, Netware, on-the-cheap pc based) choice. Asking MS to forge-on to multi-server mail then was asking them to go to Mars in a week. Exchange didn't make prime time till the '95-96 time frame and we all know V.1.0 of anything "ain't there yet". The real holder of the client/server enterprise wide mail opportunity in the '93 time frame was Banyan and they failed to capitalize.
Also, I don't think MS saw the web as anything other than network CB radio back in the early '90, they missed it; remember Bill Gate's ballyhooed book where he failed to mention the internet?
They're just big and port other folks SW ideas to cheap multivendor platforms and they do it on a mass production scale; if you don't execute on a good idea they eventually roll over you. Yea capitalism! | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
 ·Comcast
| Re: Beware I think you are misunderstanding the way that penny black works, the mail won't be delivered unless the logic problem is solved. It doesn't matter what OS the sending computer is using, the logic problem will still need to be solved.
The CPU usage system was initially proposed by people outside of Microsoft. (read the penny black link in the article for details) | |
| | | | | | 
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| Re: Beware I saw a proposed implementation of this while watching the 2004 (anti-)spam conference at MIT. It doesn't seem like this is practical. Moore's law of computing power is one problem (sort of), mailing lists is another. Could you just imagine how long it would take to send out notifications of an available security patch? How many thousands or millions of recipients are there on the typical watch list like that? It would be time for the next OS release by the time the last recipient got the notice for the first update.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here | |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Beware The way I read the description of the system led me to believe that the end user can make a list of safe people to receive email from. The people on the safe list do not get a "here is a problem for you to solve" type response. | |
| | | 
foms
@Dial1.Dall
 from:
radmish
gatzdon
Nam Vet
morbo
| Study the things Microsoft has done, and you, too will be frightened and concerned.
Basically, anyone with any decent idea for anything in the personal computer industry, can be squashed by Gates & Co. simply including an MS version of their good idea, for free, in the next version of windows, and playing hardball with OEM's to make sure that the MS version is the ONLY version the general public is exposed to.
That's it in a nutshell. No one else has even the most remote of chances to create anything or make any kind of money or progress in this business anymore. MS has it locked up and you can't get in to make a contribution or create a company of your own.
Look at what they did to netscape. A graphical web browser is a great idea, and their should be a good market for it. People should pay for a good piece of software like that and they were willing to do so. But, all it takes is for M$ to include it for free in their monopoly OS, and force OEM's to use ONLY the MS version. POW - you're dead, netscape.
Read and study some of the things that got them in anti-trust court. You will be amazed and the cutthroat and dirty tactics used by a "knight of the realm".
Same thing with Eudora and other mail clients. Just include Outlook express for free, and thus prevent anyone from having any hope of making real money with a nice email client they have created. Same thing with RealPlayer, same thing with a couple dozen other software innovations I have personally witnessed microsoft destroy in my lifetime.
Don't forget, Microsoft used to make big noise about how the internet was a bunch of UNIX hobbyists and freaks, would never amount to anything, NetBEUI was superior to TCP/IP, etc., etc.
Once folks like myself proved there was a viable market for internet services, and there could be businesses successfully built on internet services and software, M$ rolled in and laid to waste all the pioneers of the industry by using their monopoly position on the desktop.
How does anyone have a chance when these guys have so much money flowing in from a monopoly position that all they have to do is give a product like whatever you've come up with away for free? And not only that, it is pre-installed by force (they forced manufacturers to use IE, read up on it) on every computer available to the general public.
They are criminals, there is no doubt about it, they were convicted in a court of anti-trust crimes. Yet, no effective solution has ever been enforced to break them up or wrest the industry away from these criminals.
Actually just thinking about this has me kind of depressed, I think I will go watch TV for a while.
By the way, Gates saying Google kicked their but his just him blowing smoke. He knows all they have to do is integrate a decent search technology into their operating systems and their free web browser, make it so it's the first search function users see every time they start a computer, and offer an equivalent to adwords for free or nearly free, and Google is dead. Dead just like the other great companies they have put under with their desktop monopoly. They can make their search run better than google, make it faster, make it so you can search from any word in any document, etc., etc., all because they control the internals of the operating system. Don't think they won't do whatever underhanded tricks they can come up with either.
They can claim that it's a part of the OS, the new OS won't run without it, etc., etc., just like they did with IE. Google doesn't have a chance. | |
| | | | rshoch
Premium
join:2003-09-01
Santa Ana, CA | In the Blink of an Eye. While I have not been cursed to compete with Microsoft, your heartfelt post is short sighted. Historically, Microsoft will come and go. | |
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skitshivets
Premium
join:2004-01-24
Plano, TX | Re: In the Blink of an Eye. I agree...look at XEROX. Who'd uh thunk.. | |
| | | | niplet
join:2003-10-04
Antioch, TN
| Re: Beware Of all of the programs you mentioned above the only one i would ever use is google, I work for one of the OEM's and you know you do have a choice of OS's to put on pc's and it is on right on the website when you go to select which pc you would like and i have had 1 call for a non MS OS pc. strangely enough the majority do not want any of the extra software ie... real player/aol(netscape) on their new pc's. now i do not care to have say WMP on my pc so i do not use it very often and have tried every multimedia player i can find and have run into stability problems with every one of them.
i do not use IE to browse the web bc it is too vulnerable, i use msn explorer bc it is the most stable and quickest on my pc other than IE, that i have used, and i have tried a lot of different browsers.
Currently working on my very own VRML browser, will post when i get it the way i want it, at least it will be my own with help from others of coarse, freeware, you have to love freeware.
Personally if i created let's say Widget Z, i should be able to put what i want in it, if it is a product that everyone likes then you know what i am going to add to it, now say company S wants to create something similiar, more power to them. I would have the right to put what i want where i want and when i want on my product and if my product becomes the most widely used say in the entire world why would i not want to constantly add to it? Especially if i add my own version of the latest fad that is currently spreading around, now if my new version of my new widget works seamlessly with my patented Widget Z, and i make more money than anyone else and i can buy the newest knockoff bc people like it, then so be it.
I personally think it has more to do with how much money Bill Gates has more so than the software that MS has loaded on their OS. I appluad Bill Gates and MS and i think they need to make more money, very similiar to a doctor that saves, say your life, they might be paid say $150,000 for their services but is that all you would be worth no, and what MS has brought to the world and the contribution they have given to help fight diseases, oh by the way, the research for these diseases would not and probably could not be possible without MS and his mission.
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xbox live gamer tag niplet; please down load bandwidth controller and enable traffic shaping. »www.bandwidthcontroller.com | |
| | | | | hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD | Re: Beware msn's browsers is based on....IE! you ahve the same security issues with your msn as anyone using IE..
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God Blesshttp://www.faithwalk.org | |
| | | | | dda
Premium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA
| Wow. What a long screed that totally missed the point. I worked for a company that had its product line destroyed by MS due to just what the previous poster suggested; they added a "free" version to their server OS at the same time they crippled their non-server OS. Suddenly, we had to compete with free, which is a bit tougher than you seem to think.
They were found guilty of anti-trust violations and I strongly suggest you read the history of those laws to understand why they exist. Here is a big hint: It isn't because people were envious of the wealth of the robber barons.
I fear what MS does because I know that they will do what they think is best for them and with a monopoly position in an industry that affects me daily, that will affect me.
I have no guarantee that anything they do will benefit me.
You may envy and aspire to Bill Gate's wealth but it is part and parcel of a monopoly that you cannot achieve it. He beat you to it and because he has a monopoly, no one else gets to play. | |
| | 
Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| said by b_zen :
I'm more worried about what MS has in mind, for the freedom of all, than the actual results of not being spammed any longer...
This is Bill Gates, not Atilla the Hun. Please explain to me how you can compare a spam solution to threatening the freedom of all.
Otherwise, please leave the anti-Microsoft FUD at the door.
--
Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
| | |
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Re: Beware The freedom to have more than one major OS on our computers, so room is left to develop for other platforms; now, if you don't like my "anti-Microsoft FUD"... well
--
Join »BroadbandReports.com/forum/seti SETI@Home Team Don't let your computer's idle time go to waste! | |
| 
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
|  Yeah?
--
::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
| wirelessrules
join:2001-10-07
Woolwich, ME | Slow down my computer Let's just add to problem of lost productivity due to spam by slowing down our comuters when we send mail!
Would'nt solving spam by building filters into mail servers acheive the same outcome? | |
| | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI | Re: Slow down my computer This would not be so bad for the individual, but for a spammer it would be devistating. However I am sure they will just hijack all of our computers to send us spam  | |
| 
Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Gates needs to purchase stock options in a clue. Gates lives in a vacuum, trapped in a black hole. This concept is a *joke* as the spammers will run software without the crypto or hack the crypto puzzle out of the software. All too easy.
Locking up the Spammers (real prison time) and tracking the buyers of the Spammers services down and fining them is the only solution. | |
| | | | |
Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
1 edit | Re: Gates needs to purchase stock options in a clue. If Spaming becomes truly illegal, then buying it as a service would be truly illegal too. You misunderstand. I don't mean the people getting the Spam being the buyers, I mean the companies buying the Spammers email service.
Enjoy! | |
| | | dda
Premium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA
| That's not true. The problem with spam is that the cost to advertise is 0. Nada. Zilch. Therefore, if even one person buys, you've made a profit. MS is trying to raise the cost, in their own short-sighted, biased and self-centric way (I'm sure Intel wants more cycles burned too).
The long term solution to spam involved raising the cost to advertise; then there is no return to blast out zillions of emails to everyone and their cat. This is why companies pay more for "targeted" lists (snail mail and otherwise). | |
| | | | | | | | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| said by dda :
The long term solution to spam involved raising the cost to advertise; then there is no return to blast out zillions of emails to everyone and their cat. more for "targeted" lists (snail mail and otherwise).
Perhaps email providers give customers 20 free outbound emails a day, and after that, additional customer emails are forwarded to the Internet after a successful micropayment has been made.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
| smalfish
join:2004-01-17
Dallas, TX | microsoft= big contributor to the current administration and big player in comcast and wants to pass the tcpa
you decide what ms REALLY wants | |
| | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: microsoft= said by smalfish :
big contributor to the current administration
What basis in fact does this have?
Microsoft donates more money to Democratic Party House candidates than GOP candidates.
Microsoft donates more money to GOP Senate candidates than Democrats. This sum would be equal if it wasn't for their $10,000 donation to John McCain.
Microsoft is the #11 donor to President Bush's re-elect fund. Rather, Microsoft did not donate, rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families.
Where does the President's money come from?
Merrill Lynch $368,200
UBS Americas $269,000
Credit Suisse First Boston $212,050
PricewaterhouseCoopers $209,800
Lehman Brothers $199,500
Goldman Sachs $198,725
MBNA Corp $194,500
Blank Rome LLP $192,900
Bear Stearns $165,000
Union Pacific Corp $161,500
Microsoft Corp $159,750
Interestingly Microsoft is the #3 source for Howard Dean.
Contrast tthis to John Edwards, who has 18 of 20 top donors in the trial lawyer arena.
John Kerry:
Skadden, Arps et al $97,650
Citigroup Inc $70,200
Piper Rudnick $68,250
Mintz, Levin et al $63,300
Goldman Sachs $62,500
Robins, Kaplan et al $62,250
Hill, Holliday et al $50,750
Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance $50,250
Harvard University $47,750
Morgan Stanley $39,500
Maybe Microsoft hasn't bought John Kerry.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
| NoFatChicks
No, I'M The Exon And You're The Intron
join:2002-06-15
Blountsville, AL | Right Just like how the XBOX was going to beat the PS2 in two years after introduction.
Sure Bill.... | |
| |
See 11 replies to this post | |
Spazmoto
Dark Flow
join:2003-08-22 | Sir Bill Gates? A Knight?!?! You've got to be kidding me?! | |
| | 
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs: | Re: Sir Bill Gates? said by Spazmoto :
A Knight?!?!
That is weird... | |
| 
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD | Translation: quote:
"There won't be anything we won't say to people to try and convince them that our way is the way to go."
Bill Gates on Microsoft Marketing | |
| 
JeffB
Premium
join:2001-12-20
Somewhere | Whatever, Bill And we'll never need more than 640k of memory either  | |
| | dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Whatever, Bill said by JeffB :
And we'll never need more than 640k of memory either
You understand that Microsoft talked that figure up from the 512K proposed by IBM, don't you?
The physical address space of the IBM PC was 20 bits. IBM proposed that the lower half be given to software and the upper half be given to IO devices. Microsoft haggled a little.
Also, since Microsoft doesn't build chips, it's difficult to see how it could be there fault that the address bus was only 20 bits wide.
Yeah, you can probably find some silly statement by Gates defending the number he was stuck with. That's marketing.
On the other hand, while Gates was sounding off about 640KB on single-user PCs, I was probably using timesharing systems with a half-a-megabyte of physical memory (intended to support 20 or 30 users) and a 64KB virtual address space. So Gates didn't seem like he was really limiting himself there. And who the hell could afford 640KB of memory for one person, anyway?
You can find plenty of statements by smart people about having more computing resources than they'll ever need. That's been pretty much constant for the last 50 years. | |
| | | 
herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
| Re: Whatever, Bill said by dave :
You can find plenty of statements by smart people about having more computing resources than they'll ever need. That's been pretty much constant for the last 50 years.
Your right. Remember the statement by the CEO of Digital Equipment in 1977 who said there was no reason a person would ever need a computer in their house.
And the one by some IBM guy in 1943? that said 4 computers in the world was enough.
Remember Microsoft is only a monopoly because we are too lazy to learn another system. | |
| | | | dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Whatever, Bill said by herdfan :
And the one by some IBM guy in 1943? that said 4 computers in the world was enough.
That wasn't just 'some IBM guy', that was Thomas J. Watson, the Bill Gates of his generation. And I think the point he was making was that IBM wasn't going to be making much money out of computers.
(The exact number varies according to source: 3, 4, 5). | |
| 
93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20 | From The Horse's Mouth... Bill Gates on "creating a new standard:" »www.osdata.com/kind/gates.htm
- Dan
--
When are you going to let me out of this box? | |
| | 
dilettante
join:2002-01-01
Haslett, MI | Re: From The Horse's Mouth... How many decades ago was that quote, and how many months could Gates stand by it?
And the big question: what was he trying to sell at THAT moment? | |
| 
Kompressor
Premium
join:2002-02-12
Huntington Beach, CA
| This won't fly... Spammers will just have a number of high speed computers running 24/7 doing nothing SPAM. Also, I'm sure spammers will figure out how to 'hack' the system so they don't have to do any data crunching at all, just like everything else gets hacked sooner or later. | |
| | jhonny5
join:2001-08-22
Brooklyn, NY | Re: This won't fly... With the cost of new computers plummeting to a mere couple hundred dollars, spammers could easily maintain their output for a couple grand, a figure they'd be more than willing to post seeing as they'll easily make it up in sales. | |
|
dilettante
join:2002-01-01
Haslett, MI
|  Sounds like a start anyway
I know you MS-haters have your reasons, just like I have my own misgivings about them.
But so far it sounds like something that might actually work. Maybe something on the order of:
-> I want to send mail.
<- Ok, here's a hashed random number, tell me the original value.
-> *grind grind* Is it x?
<- Nope, two more tries.
-> *grind grind* Is it y?
<- You got it! Go ahead and send your email message.
-> Here it comes...
Of course the "hashing" needs to be something special, maybe several hashes would be provided. You'd need to try any of several selections that would each be reversed until they come out to the same result for each hashed value provided.
This would mean some wheel-spinning as you try different "puzzles" (hash reversals) until the answers come out the same. Sort of like a slot machine or something.
The trick would be to develop "puzzles" that are fast to create and slow to solve, and that don't have "cheat" weaknesses.
This doesn't sound so bad, and I doubt spammers use supercomputers. I suppose there is a risk of this though and in any case as processor speed increases you'd need a way for the difficulty to ramp up without requiring new software at each end. Maybe just gradually increase the size of the random numbers (the penny?) over time?
I suppose I'll need to read up on it to be informed, but I can't imagine why there are so many negative knee-jerks going on here about it. | |
| | | 
rideboarder
welcome to the social
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Snohomish, WA
clubs:
| Good Job Microsoft... At least someone is trying to do something about our spam problems...unlike everyone else...
I don't see how you can hate someone who tries to solve a problem no one else is willing to spend the money/time on it needs....
Way to go Bill! | |
| |
Theo25
@attbi.com | Re: Good Job Microsoft... I totally agree, I'm all for them trying to stop spam, no matter what they do I'm all for it. People love to try and hate MS, AOL, etc., but I'm all for them stepping up to stop spam. | |
| | 
TheMetrix
R.T.F.M. - P.E.B.K.A.C
Premium
join:2002-06-15
Utica, MI
clubs: | And just to think computers will never need anymore than 640K of RAM and never more than a 20MB Hard Drive | |
| 
Kylemaul
Lovin' My Firefox 1.5.x
Premium
join:2001-03-30
North Port, FL
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| Possibilities... IMO, this means one of two things:
1) M$ plans to build a server model/server OS that blows current server platforms out of the water, and through marketing and other means, somehow make it the 'popular' choice. "The only way to get rid of SPAM is by using our fantastic new server software. Think of the money your company will save in productivity costs alone!"
2) M$ plans to come up with a new proprietary e-mail protocol, and integrate it into new consumer operating systems (with OS-integrated e-mail applications, of course.)
The latter seems far more likely.
--
'The tighter the RIAA squeezes their grip, the more stars and systems will slip through their fingers.' | |
| mgrt67
join:2002-03-04
Oak Lawn, IL
| Reality check It's really annoying when I read people saying Microsoft is monopolistic, greedy and how they crush their competition. The whole idea of the business world is that exact concept. Beat your competition. Wake up from your fairy tale dream land. 99% of every company out there would gladly crush their competition and take their business if they could. That’s how a free enterprise system works. Companies are out to make money and be successful. Why fault Microsoft for being one of the best at doing that? If you don’t like them then use one of the alternatives that are out there. Just stop whining about it. | |
| |
foms
@208.44.x.x
from:
rchandra
| Re: Reality check They broke the law and were convicted in a court. Is that how a free enterprise system works?
In general I agree with much of what you say. I am absolutely a capitalist. But capitalism is not perfect and it's not an all-or-nothing false dichotomy. You can have plenty of rough and tumble capitalism and STILL have laws in place to punish rank abuse and monopoly. Monopoly PREVENTS competition, it is most definitely not pro-capitalist. | |
| | | | Urzumph
join:2002-11-06
Australia
| quote:
The whole idea of the business world is that exact concept. Beat your competition.
Seeing as you obviously don't understand what you are saying, perhaps I should paraphrase it for you?
The point of softball is to beat the other team. So how can you be sure that you will beat the other team? All you have to do is murder them all in their sleep, that way they don't show up and forfeit the match to you! Now, sure you don't condone this methodology, if nothing else, it is illegal. Instead of murdering them, the 'correct' way to win (or perhaps the way that the creator of softball intended you to win is a better explenation) was you to be the better softball team, by practicing & becoming the better team.
If you've read Terry Goodkind, it can be summed up by the Wizard's 8th Rule : Deserve to win.
Instead of creating better products (the way the inventor of capatalisim intended it - becoming the better team) and hence gaining dominant market share (wining) microsoft bundled their products (IE, Media Player, OE, et al) with their operating system, and hence give them an unfair advantage, whereby the opposition is unable to compete (in the softball example, because one cannot play post-humously)
If microsoft wants to make superior products & rule the marketplace because they Deserve to win, I don't have any objection to that. | |
| ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL | 640K is all you need Mr. Gates once told us that "640Kb of RAM is all anyone would ever need" | |
|
Meganolia
@gaatl-i.aleron
| IE / Netscape
You can drink a Mountain Dew, but Coke will always be in every household. I think everyone is too critical of Microsoft. Computers haven't had but 15 years or so in the home. As stated earlier, our parents used pencils, then the electric typewrite, then 8-tracks and phonograph records. The music is still there, but we use CD's and MP3's.
If all the OS companies would just stop with all the upgrades (new and improved, yada yada) and perfect the ones we have, I believe spam would be harder on the bad guys.
Anyways, to anyone that thinks my post don't belong, point made. It won't matter what MS does; you'll find something to moan about.
Oh well, that was fun!
M | |
| | vlovich
join:2001-12-08
1 edit | Re: IE / Netscape Here's a few reasons Microsoft became dominant: IE was a hell of a lot better than Netscape during the browser wars. Their Office suites (the DOS ones) were quite ahead of most consumer-level and most business-level ones of the time. 640 K is plenty... for DOS. That is what everyone forgets. Gates was referring to DOS since that was the upper limit for it anyways.
Of course, not everything is shiny in MS land. Anyone who wonders why people dislike them simply has too look at the virus and worm damages in the past few years. As people mentioned, Gates never expected the Internet, and neither did Windows. It was mostly patch-work. And one thing MS should never be forgiven for is not continuing to improve IE with more modern features like Tabbed-browsing, pop-up blocking, no Active-X (can you say Security Flaw?).
PS: All the crushing of small companies, stealing of other intellectual properties, and giving their other software an added edge against other companies by bundling things free with their OS did not help with their PR. And people who say that Microsoft should be commended for their business, should they still be congratulated when they try to destroy someone elses product (Java anyone?) | |
| 
Da22in
Buck Fush
join:2002-06-10
Charlotte, NC
clubs:
| C'mon Bill...seriously All these anti-Microsoft posters deserve the "troll" label.
Anytime an article is posted regarding MS in any way, they crawl out from under the bridge to piss and moan about everything that is Microsoft...often citing incorrect information. It's not IE that's vulnerable, it's your computer that's not secure...learn the difference. Oh, and that witty little "M$" thing is completely worn out.
As stated earlier, Microsoft will only stop spam with something proprietary...and obviously use this as a selling point. I, personally, have a hard time believing his statement as it's written. 2006?
Gates is always making bold statements, so what? He's a billionaire many times over, he can afford it. I don't have a spam problem, my ISP does a good job of filtering. I'm weaning away from the spam factory that is web-based email, though one address is good to have. Microsoft Windows (95 and later) is the biggest contributor to the prevalence of the home computer and the the World Wide Web. Dont believe me? Tough! The numbers don't lie. | |
| | vlovich
join:2001-12-08
1 edit | Re: C'mon Bill...seriously I don't say MS is pure evil and I totally agree that M$ is getting really tiresome.
However, IE is not vulnerable, it's your computer? Have you been living under a cave for the past 9 years? First of all, there have been so many ActiveX bugs in IE (actual security holes that were not the users fault and could be exploited by the user going to a site). How about a very recent exploit that affects IE primarily (but also other browsers, except Opera where a user visiting a site can see a completely different site in the address bar (with the padlock bar fake and everything).
That's just IE. Windows has had plenty of buffer-overflow attacks and remote elevation of privileges that had nothing to do with a user. While many of these could be prevented with a proper firewall/router setup, MS is certainly not in blame-free; after all, it's their product that had the whole to begin with (and how about Blaster. it can potentially infect your computer before you have a chance to install a software firewall or a fix for the problem)
So before you start answering these trolls, perhaps you should review a little bit of computer history so you can talk a little bit more intelligently and don't sound foolish when you say MS is great and we should be thankful they gave the GUI to the masses (the masses being those on x86 for you Mac fans). Linux was actually created a year before Win 3.1 was released, although it wasn't GUI. If Win 3.x hadn't been released, you can't possibly believe we'd still be using a pure CLI, can you?
UPDATE: A new security hole found in IE (it's the users fault you say?) »secunia.com/Internet_Explorer_Fi···ng_Test/ | |
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