page: 1 · 2  |
 
File Quit
Mac Geek
Premium
join:2002-11-28 | why waste the bandwidth? Everything isn't free. Just buy newsgroup service from someone like EasyNews or Giganews, and you get all you need. | |
|  | Flizesh
Premium
join:2003-08-16
Staten Island, NY
clubs: | Re: why waste the bandwidth? that sucks. guess verizon doesn't have the best free newsgroups anymore  | |
| | 
stateq2
J Dilla
Premium
join:2003-03-27
Jackson, MS | i'm really indifferent to the decision. but i don't beleive that verizon is *wrong* for dropping the warez groups. | |
| | | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI | Re: why waste the bandwidth? Now they will be responsible for policing all the news groups in their feed. | |
| | | | 
Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? No they won't. Remember, they stopped carrying those groups due to excessive usage, not because they carried warez... wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
--
Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD - just use the right tool for the right job... end the OS Politics! | |
| | | | 
Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| They can carry whatever they want. People have a ton of misconceptions about ISPs, not the least of which is the belief that as soon as a company filters anything or cuts off a customer, they're suddenly required to examine every bit that goes through their service.
--
Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
| | | jj nobody
join:2000-08-31
Lakeland, FL
| said by stateq2  :
i'm really indifferent to the decision. but i don't beleive that verizon is *wrong* for dropping the warez groups.
and here come the trolls | |
| | slavik4
join:2002-08-06
Brooklyn, NY | get astra, for 15/month, 2mbit speed cap, no limit, 4 concurrent connection, retention about 10 days, completion is 99%.
they carry the groups that vz dropped ... | |
| | jj nobody
join:2000-08-31
Lakeland, FL
| said by File Quit :
Everything isn't free. Just buy newsgroup service from someone like EasyNews or Giganews, and you get all you need.
no. Absolutely not. I pay for my SERVICE. SERVICE which in cludes newsgroup access. I asked VOL for a specific list of all available newsgroups available through them when I signed up, and now 8 are missing... doesn't matter what's in them. Fact is, they're missing and I cannot access them, even though they still exist. Therefore, on Saturday, I phoned VOL and informed them that if this "problem" isn't fixed on my end and I don't get 100% SERVICE that I am paying for, they will not get 100% payment from me. Wanna take me to court VOL, by all means, go ahead. | |
| | | 
DusterAZ
Silencer
join:2002-03-10
Surprise, AZ | Re: why waste the bandwidth? Hahahah, no payment = no Internet access ... have fun ! | |
| | | | jj nobody
join:2000-08-31
Lakeland, FL
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? said by DusterAZ :
Hahahah, no payment = no Internet access ... have fun !
I never said no payment, please read my above post more accurately. I stated that since I receive only a percentage of their service, they will only receive a percentage of pay equal to the percentage of service that I am receiving right now. | |
| | | | | 
treetop1000
join:2003-11-07
Lexington, KY | Re: why waste the bandwidth? ha ha. no payment = no service. short payment = no service.
try just paying part of your phone bill. | |
| | | | | 
kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY
| Ok, let's see here: Assuming that all other aspects of the VOL service occur by magic at no cost to anybody  ; you're paying $34.95/month for access to about 30,000 news groups.
Let's do the math:
$34.95/30000 = $0.001165/newsgroup
8 * $0.001165/newsgroup = $0.00932
$34.95 - $0.00932 = $34.94068
How, exactly do you write a check for $34.94068? | |
| | | 
ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| Just read the Verizon TOS. I'm sure it's like any other ISP's and contains the out ".. we reserve the right to change or alter the service in any way we deem neccessary at any time with or without prior notification to customers..." or something very similar. | |
| | | | jj nobody
join:2000-08-31
Lakeland, FL
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? said by ph03n1x :
Just read the Verizon TOS. I'm sure it's like any other ISP's and contains the out ".. we reserve the right to change or alter the service in any way we deem neccessary at any time with or without prior notification to customers..." or something very similar.
Well I reserve the right to chage my service whenever possible. They wish to turn my service off, I'll bitch and bitch and bitch until someone hears. I'm a very stubborn person and verizon's done favors for me before... I'm sure they have my name on file as the "oh no" guy | |
| | | | | 
Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? said by jj nobody :
They wish to turn my service off, I'll bitch and bitch and bitch until someone hears.
You assume they would even care??? Its their system, their rules... you don't like it just go elsewhere.
You agreed to the terms when you signed up... they can change it any time they like... again you agreed to that.
You have the right to depart without penalty... but you have NO right to demand restoration.
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) | |
| | | | | | jj nobody
join:2000-08-31
Lakeland, FL
1 edit | Re: why waste the bandwidth? said by Hayward :
said by jj nobody :
They wish to turn my service off, I'll bitch and bitch and bitch until someone hears.
You assume they would even care??? Its their system, their rules... you don't like it just go elsewhere.
You agreed to the terms when you signed up... they can change it any time they like... again you agreed to that.
You have the right to depart without penalty... but you have NO right to demand restoration.
As a verizon customer and a consumer in general... I have the right to demand anything I want out of a service.
You run a lemonade stand. You sell cups of lemonade for a quarter a piece. Customer's just overlook you because you're a little high, so they go to other stands... you drop your price to 10 cents a piece and the people come running. After a while of raking in the money, you realize that you're gonna need lots of lemonade mix and sugar to take care of your increased customers but you decide to just cut back on sugar... now you've got alot of people with a sour look on their face... see the comparison? Alot of people with very sour looks right now. | |
| | | | | | | 
Nevster
Premium
join:2002-04-06
Dalhousie, NB
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? Those people with sour looks: Who's problem is that? The lemonade vendor? Or the people with sour looks? Caveat emptor.
You have the right to pay for a service, be it good or bad. You have the right to not pay for a service, good or bad. That's about all. Sure, you can whip yourself into a frothing frenzy, and get all entitled and stuff. This might only be bugging you because you feel you deserve it, not because it's actually a great loss.
At least you're not disentitled and think they're picking on you.
-nevin | |
| | | | | | | |
Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? Hey.. my Brother's name is Nevin! I think you are, maybe the fourth Nevin I've ever heard of in my life (my Bro, our grand-dad, and strangely, a guy I worked with once)
Anyway... I was going to say that I don't think the lemonade stand comparison holds up very well. Sugar is a vital component of lemonade to pretty much everyone that drinks it. Newsgroup access, on the other hand, isn't used by a good number of ISP customers at all. Beyond that, these particularly groups are used even less... the comparison just breaks up here, IMHO
--
Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD - just use the right tool for the right job... end the OS Politics! | |
| | | | | | | | |
DusterAZ
Silencer
join:2002-03-10
Surprise, AZ
| Re: why waste the bandwidth? Yup, I work at an ISP with about 110,000 cable modem customers. Our newsgroup service is outsourced through Supernews, we only need to have about 350 simultaneous connections available for them. Do the math ... 
--
"Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription... is more cowbell!" - Christopher Walken | |
| | | | | | |
Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
1 edit | said by jj nobody :
As a verizon customer and a consumer in general... I have the right to demand anything I want out of a service.
And they have the right to refuse/change service to anyone they like with a 30 day out, and YOU AGREED to that by signing up... so just WHAT is your point????
--
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
| |
| | slavik4
join:2002-08-06
Brooklyn, NY | but in how many newsgroups do you actually particapate? | |
| 
MacGyver
Bell Sucks
Premium,ExMod 2003-05
join:2001-10-14
Orleans, ON | Nothing New Sympatico hasn't carried any binary newsgroups for years. | |
| 
Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| This is a harder problem to solve than it looks Most of us who are not thieves or pirates hate the idea of these newsgroups being carried by anybody, but it's not a slam-dunk that dropping them will actually lower costs for Verizon. If their customers start subscribing to external news servers, they will actually increase the use of "transit", which is connections to other ISPs. Transit is the most expensive kind of backbone traffic, and by maintianing the news servers inhouse, the use of transit is reduced.
Seems to me that throttling 119/tcp (netnews protocol) at the border gateway would help address this problem too.
Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl * Security Consultant * Tustin, California USA * my web site | |
| | 
ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
 ·Internet Nebraska
| Re: This is a harder problem to solve than it looks said by Steve :
Seems to me that throttling 119/tcp (netnews protocol) at the border gateway would help address this problem too.
That's what Earthlink did.
--
I will reduce the government by dissolving the senate & house of representatives. With my new powers, I will protect America against terror and make this country great. Trust me. | |
| | | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: This is a harder problem to solve than it looks said by ArchAngel21x :
said by Steve :
Seems to me that throttling 119/tcp (netnews protocol) at the border gateway would help address this problem too.
That's what Earthlink did.
Which is exactly why i dont use their servers for anything of size. once newstest2 went away everything got slow again. newstest2 was uncapped. its sad indeed to see the last ISP with decent news service to go bad (Verizon. sure itll still be good there just wont be anything to download unless you like porn)
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
| | | vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| said by ArchAngel21x :
said by Steve :
Seems to me that throttling 119/tcp (netnews protocol) at the border gateway would help address this problem too.
That's what Earthlink did.
Which is why other newsgroup providers started going over other port. Its an endless cycle:).
--
I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
| | | jj nobody
join:2000-08-31
Lakeland, FL
| said by ArchAngel21x :
said by Steve :
Seems to me that throttling 119/tcp (netnews protocol) at the border gateway would help address this problem too.
That's what Earthlink did.
And that's why people ran from Earthlink like they were the plague | |
| | | | | | 
Thasp6
The Thasps Are Everywhere.
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Your Mind.
| said by Steve :
Most of us who are not thieves or pirates hate the idea of these newsgroups being carried by anybody, but it's not a slam-dunk that dropping them will actually lower costs for Verizon.
It's $30/monthly for 722/130 service. How much lower does it need to go?
Frankly, I consider this a thumbsdown. I mean, they already have dial-up uploads with most of their consumer DSL packages, and now this? The service is degrading, IMO.
--
THE THASPS ARE EVERYWHERE. | |
| | | Coolbrz
join:2002-12-16
Port Allegany, PA
| Re: This is a harder problem to solve than it look quote:
I mean, they already have dial-up uploads with most of their consumer DSL packages, and now this? The service is degrading, IMO.
Last I checked dialup upload was at most 44k, most are still stuck at 33.3 for upload.
I dont see this as a service degradation at all, IMO.
As I stated elsewhere, I would wager that 90% of the traffic on those groups are of the illegal variety. If someone wants "stuff" for "free" pay for a news service. | |
| 
Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26 | They must do this I'm sure they feel more pressure from software companies and it's ok, I mean if they can reduce warez on their network without threatening customer privacy go for it! | |
| 
FLea973
Premium
join:2001-02-27
Morristown, NJ
clubs:
| ISPs better hope it was for "excessive volume" If it was for content, they would appear to be voluntarily policing their content. If Verizon or others start dropping newsgroups/blocking services without being ordered to because of content and not network considerations they can open themselves to a lot of trouble down the road. They'd be more liable for stuff they DIDN'T block. | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
| Re: ISPs better hope it was for "excessive volume" I'm not sure that I agree. Wal-Mart censors the CDs they carry. Other than being called moral conservatives, I'm not aware of any legal actions.
I'm sure a CD or two has slipped through Wal-Mart's censors. Does that suddenly give a parent the right to sue Wal-Mart? Sure they can but where is it going to go? The judge is going to tell them that they should be responsible for the content of music that their children consume. Sure, they can cite that Wal-Mart should have censored the CD but in the end, it's their responsibility.
Of course this argument would only work in Texas. In Massachusetts, the parent could probably bankrupt Wal-Mart. | |
| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: ISPs better hope it was for "excessive volume" said by rradina :
Of course this argument would only work in Texas. In Massachusetts, the parent could probably bankrupt Wal-Mart.
Ohhh God is that so true. some of the absolute weirdest judgements have passed threw this state.
We let the worst be lawyers here and then when they steal cash from their clients. They apparently slipped threw the cracks. Is it possible the cracks are wide enough to fit a mac truck threw. Good lord we need some lawyers who won't sue over the stupidest issue.
--
This package does not contain a winner... | |
| RobZombie
join:2002-10-12
Canada | there is always.... mIRC :P
www.ircspy.com
www.packetnews.com | |
| |
See 7 replies to this post | |
technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| Giganews I just made the jump to Giganews today actually, and im really happy there. They have a retention of 30-45 days oppose to most isp's retention of 7 days, etc. I vote Giganews =P.
--
AMD 2500, 1024 MEG PC 3200, 180 GIG HDD, MSI KT4 Ultra Board, MSI GEFORCE 4 TI 4600»www.streamfire.net/portfolio | |
| |
See 8 replies to this post | |
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs: | Should they? If they do, I don't care. As long as they leave the option up to me to install it or not. | |
| | 
purplejello
join:2001-08-23
Reno, NV
clubs: | Re: Should they? The nature of this action is the denial of your access to these groups... In other words, by removing these newsgroups they prevent you from having such an option. | |
| 
koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| No sympathy here. I used to assist in maintaining the old Best Internet NNTP server as part of my old job. I have little sympathy for anyone wanting binary groups of any sort -- but warez/mp3s/pr0n in particular.
The beauty -- and problem -- with the NNTP protocol is that it's a distributed medium. All it takes is one schmuck to upload a few ISO images and he could potentially take down NNTP servers across the globe (depending upon how much disk they have available at the time). I saw this occur on a nearly weekly basis.
My recommendation to people who don't like their ISPs policy changing regarding what Usenet groups they carry, is to shell out the cash for a an account on SuperNews or whatever some of the more public providers are. In my opinion, they're probably going to be a lot more reliable than any ISP, simply because their whole point is to manage and maintain NNTP feeds.
But to answer the actual BBR news articles' question? No, I don't think ISPs should carry warez, mp3s, l33t 0-day sh1zn4t, pr0n, or anything else which draws questionable attention to itself. For those of you who want (""need"") this kind-of stuff: that's fine, no judgement being passed here, I just have a viewpoint of my own.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
| 
GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
| Metrics - we need stats I think we need stats, which I'm not sure an ISP will provide.
They dropped what I think were the 8 highest volume (in terms of GB/day needed to host) groups. They didn't pick it, if that's the case, based on content.
What does it cost to continue to throw disks at news servers? We're not talking $1/GB (after rebate) disks here. That works for 1 machine, but not for a massive server supporting hundreds of users.
What percentage of the subscribers use the news server? The cost is allocated to each sub though since it's part of the subscription. What if they pulled the cost of providing news service and allocated it only to those that wanted it - what would the # of subs be and the cost allocation to those subs?
I'd imagine this is the 1st set of newsgroups that will be pulled, if that's the method Verizon uses to keep the infrastructure stable and manageable without throwing cash out the window. I'd say the next top 10 groups in terms of disk requirements would be what the Verizon news group junkies should be looking at losing. | |
| | 
GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: Metrics - we need stats Yeah...volume doesn't mean popular. You can dump tons of data into a group and it will eat up server "capacity" if they want to maintain retention. These top few groups represented more volume than the next 20 or 30 according to news stats posted in the original thread.
--
Don't have it?!? Demand it!!! The Anime Network »www.theanimenetwork.com | |
| | wmansir
join:2002-12-17
Farmingdale, ME
| The problem isn't due to disc quota, but incoming feed bandwidth. There was a large sustained spike in the incoming feed and VOL couldn't keep up. It began generating a backlog and dropping posts, causing poor server performance and incompletes.
But in general you are correct. This decision was made on performance costs imposed by carrying these groups, not on content. | |
| 
rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| this is bad this is censorship and what is sad is there is some individual at Verizon who will use his own morality and political views as to what content they will allow at Verizons newsgroups instead of what the community wants. I pay I pick. I use a small ISP. RoadRunner was forced by the FCC under the original terms of the bad AOL deal to open up their lines to competitors and this is exactly the reason I use nyct.net, the small local ISP they picked to offer cable broadband in New York. they don't censor their newsgroups or anything else. it is also a backdoor way to suck up to the RIAA, Hollywood and even the gaming companies. like I always thought they only fought the RIAA for our privacy because they had no choice. it is clear what their intent is. | |
| |
See 20 replies to this post | |
| |
See 9 replies to this post | |
GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| They only removed a few And they constituted a huge amount of space. Seems that the other warez groups that I use weren't touched. DVD games and movies take up tons of space compared to "traditional" software and PC games and while I sympathise with those who lost their favorite groups, it just means better retention for mine Also what is the alternative...removing them all together like Cox, capping speeds down to 128kbps like some, or going to absolutely worthless monthly caps like the 1GB used to get from Comcrap?
Fact is this tiny hand full of groups represented dozens of times the volume of other warez groups and some on the list were just dumping grounds for crap from the Dutch or the same crap posted every week...after week after week.
--
Don't have it?!? Demand it!!! The Anime Network »www.theanimenetwork.com | |
| cali310
join:2000-07-01
Avondale, AZ
| Definitely not a moral issue As I have said in a few threads around here I think if Verizon is going to stay at the bottom when it comes to speed offering they sure as hell should keep their mail, news and webhosting in tip top shape. The solid newsgroup offerings were my main reason for going with Verizon. I have other options for broadband and if Verizon doesn't put those groups back soon I will be moving on.
As to the morality issue, there's no doubt that's not the reason behind it. If it were, groups such as alt.binaries.WAREZ (many with that word in them) and alt.binaries.MP3 (again, many with that in them) would have been the first to go so no, morality had nothing to do with it.
Compete with other ISP's (can you say PacBell) in terms of speed and pricing and I could give less than a damn if you abolish all the newsgroups. | |
| |
See 21 replies to this post | |
gwion
wild colonial boy
Premium,ExMod 2001-08
join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA
3 edits | ISP's aren't copy editors... Because something's binary content, it does not "therefore and by necessity follow" it's warez; I'm seeing that quite unvarnished implication being tossed about in Verizon, and it's a logical absurdity.
Now, it may well be true that these groups are full of warez. Or they may be full of public domain movies and shareware games - I don't know. I've never visited them.
I've never visited a group called "alt.binaries.pictures.children.erotic", either. I frankly don't plan to, either. But if content policing is what it's all about, then wouldn't that, along with a whole list of groups with the words "warez" or "passwords" right in their titles be gone, too?
Those are extreme load groups, from what I've pieced together. And that, I suspect, is the whole thing in a nutshell -- Verizon just got carried across town on people's shoulders for NOT caving in to RIAA, not long ago. Now, all of the same people are ready to lynch them as being in the pockets of the industry groups without even taking time to read the announcement or gather any information... it's just a "file sharing argument." Verizon's guilty of censorship without trial, or, indeed, complete evidence, and we have the rope in the apple tree before the story gets cold, the groups will never be back, this is just censorship. That's tremendously unfair. Breathtakingly so.
It's also breathtakingly unfair to assume that every photo or recording on the internet is pirated or otherwise illegal, hence shouldn't be there to begin with... take a minute and think about that... there's shareware, freeware, public domain, demonstration and promotion... the internet at large is full of legal binary content.
But the topic is "should Verizon CARRY warez." But they don't. They carry "newsgroups." Verizon should not be responsible for content editing of the Usenet community. No ISP should be expected to. They didn't "create" the NG system, they don't police it as their official role... they're an ISP, and news is like WWW... another thing you can use the internet to get to.
Should Verizon be held responsible for the content of a user's webpage? Better, for this discussion, should they be responsible for every webpage from every source that their users can access via their service? What a complete absurdity... If not, then, why should they be responsible to police the news groups, the bulk of which content doesn't even originate from Verizon? If we came to expect that, I hazard that very few ISPs will want to carry news, at all... and, by extension, I would also caution, if Verizon, or any other ISP is making decisions based solely on content, then there's a whole list of newsgroups I would love to see scuttled on content... and I probably have good company on that... But an ISP isn't editorially responsible for newsgroups... if they were, the costs and workload would be enormous, just for starters... and the implications by extension are interesting. At what point does voluntarily editing content create an expectation of editing content? I edit content, myself, daily when I visit the web or the few NG's I read through... I exercise editorial discretion every time I come on... if something bothers me, I leave...
Well, that would be a digression... but my general sound byte answers to the relevant points are as follows: - no, an ISP should not "carry" warez. There's no cause, no crusade, no "right" to "liberate" other people's property; it's just glorified theft. No better than shoplifting the stuff from Walmart, and nobody's going to change my mind on that. But an ISP isn't the owner or editor of the news groups, individually. Nor does any ISP sponsor or post or otherwise "CARRY" anything in the NG posts... an ISP carries "newsgroups." So an ISP shouldn't be under any duty to take any responsibility whatsoever for the content of the news groups, any more than they should be strictly responsible for their users' webpage content.
As I see this, I don't think Verizon -is- making a content based decision, as much as making a server load based decision. And, if they become AWARE in the daily course of administration that any group is using a lot of bandwidth and is mostly illegal content, and they need to make cuts... well. I have no sympathy, as I've been quoted saying since the beginning of time, for anyone who is stealing other people's property and livelihood. Sorry...
I'm really getting tired of seeing filesharing of copyrighted works or otherwise in direct violation of the licensing requirements treated as a "cause" or something "less than theft." It's neither. But the person who bears ultimate responsibility for that is the one who knowingly posts the content; not the ISP who happens to have it in a newsgroup, alongside ten million other posts...
--
I read Shakespeare and the Bible, and I can shoot dice. That's what I call a liberal education. | |
| | 
asasdsad
@comcast.net
| Re: ISP's aren't copy editors... The only reason Verizon fought the RIAA was that they were afraid of having to deal with all of the subpoenas that would soon be coming if they didn't. Verizon fought the RIAA because it was in the best interest of their company, not because they wanted to pick a fight with the RIAA or wanted to defend their customers. If a company does 1 good thing to benefit consumers, does that mean we should turn a blind eye to the next 8 things that they do?
I have a feeling this is only the beginning.. | |
| | |
gwion
wild colonial boy
Premium,ExMod 2001-08
join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: ISP's aren't copy editors... I actually think it has more to do with not wanting to have to deal with workload, too.
But think it out; Verizon has absolutely nothing to lose or gain from any of the industry "[X]IAA" groups... and, I think it follows, no sense of any responsibility to make work for themselves to please them. I don't think Verizon's just chomping at the bit to remove anything, though. They're a telco, not a cableco, so they can pretty much thumb their noses at the entertainment industry with absolute impunity.
So I'm not so much saying Verizon deserves kudos for defending the rights of filesharers, I think they simply considered and acted in their own best interests. But I don't think they deserve an immediate lynching as just another industry zombie, either, absent some significant and solid evidence of that... besides, and they know quite well, newsgroup content's quite portable. All they'll end up doing, long run, is what Steve suggested, above, or simply driving the content into other groups, among their own users. Sort of like closing down the crack house, but forgetting to put a surveillance on the drug corner across the block... guess where the crackheads will be tomorrow night?
No, I'm not naive, though. I realize that what Verizon was doing was representing the interests of ISP's, not users... their position being that an ISP shouldn't be required to act as a policeman... and in that I fully agree.
But if they are policing content proactively, I would warn them, they may be undermining their own position; at some point, if you volunteer to do something, and keep doing it, you're going to be responsible for doing it, and estopped by a course of prior conduct from saying you aren't. I don't think they're anywhere near that, as of now, but it does bear mentioning, I think... it's a slipery slope and a blurry grey line, but there's some point, somewhere, at which you cease to be just a gratuitous editor, and take on various responsibilities for something through your ongoing practices that you really may not want to be responsible for...
--
I read Shakespeare and the Bible, and I can shoot dice. That's what I call a liberal education. | |
|
HRmmm
@mindspring.com
| Heh You know... it's funny.. Because I can probbaly say for sure that Verizon counts NGs as a "Complimentary" service, so they could do whatever they want with it... And just to note: Verizon customers who are bitching about it, are just bitching about getting something for free... And that's quite illegal to be downloading games in the first place... Don't give me stuff about "backing up games" because if you did want to backup a game, do it yourself, not download it... I can assure you, that backing up a game is faster then downloading it off the internet. Don't bitch at something that was never meant to be free in the first place. | |
| | 
DivineDark
join:2001-08-30
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs: | Re: Heh Cox if you are out there watching, Do not change a thing. Your usenet is great!! It is one of the reasons I am with you and not SBC. | |
| | 
Hel
Goddess Of My Own Little Universe
Premium
join:2002-04-11
Washington, DC
clubs:
| said by HRmmm:
And just to note: Verizon customers who are bitching about it, are just bitching about getting something for free
Actually, many of us are bitching about the fact that the way verizon handled this showed a lack of interest in customer satisfaction. There was no warning, no asking the customers what they wanted, nothing. The message was posted an hour before the groups were removed. It's not the fact that they removed the groups that I'm upset about. Honestly, I'm all for them removing dis-proportionally high traffic groups, and thereby freeing up resources for other groups. What I'm upset about is wondering what part of the service they are going to rip out tomorrow, or the next day, or next month, without warning me.
--
"Sugar and Spice and all things nice, to me are quite a mystery, cos women who are well behaved, don't go down in history."Hel | |
| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Actually this wouldn't be a problem... If the people who used UseNET didn't abuse it by sending 250+ MB files via a service that wasn't designed for such large files. I have a strange feeling that if the creators of the Usenet specifications saw the size of some of the files in the binary groups, they would roll over dead.
Of course its a lot to expect people to realize that Usenet is NOT a large file P2P sharing meium...
--
Male by birth... Geek by choice
Ever wake up like me & realize that the world, humanity and society sickened you ? | |
| | | | | 
Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA | mh "if you don't like it, don't use it. and if you want to use it, we no longer offer it. "
that's what you get with cheaper dsl prices. | |
|
cox user
@2wire.com
| we're lucky to have cox i'm a cox user and "keep tabs" on the binary newsgroups
most of the dvd, xbox, xvid, iso ect "warez" newsgroups if you will and at ANY given time powergrab tells me that there is over 800 GIGS! of material available
cox's retention is ~ 3 days or so.. Thats alot of bandwidth/ infrastructure for newsgroups | |
| 
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| This is only partly due to warez The groups are most likely being dropped due to excessive
volume. The ones named have the following post counts as of
this evening on Giganews (and other Usenet servers):
alt.binaries.misc 4762200 posts
alt.binaries.dvdr 4470462 posts
alt.binaries.nl 4363607 posts
alt.binaries.dvd 3667835 posts
alt.binaries.x 3427928 posts
alt.binaries.cdimage.xbox 2754930 posts
alt.binaries.cdimage.playstation2.dvdiso 1439332 posts
(Not sure why this one was dropped, whether due to high
volume or DMCA warez complaints - there are about four
groups with higher post counts that two of which would
fit the latter explanation).
alt.binaries.boneless doesn't appear to be carried by
Giganews - it didn't show up in the groups listing on
Newsbin Pro, so I have no idea what the post count was.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. | |
| | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI
| Re: This is only partly due to warez 4 million post crashges newsbin pro all the time. I considered buying an amd 64 platform with 4+ gigs of ram just so I could have enough juice to hold the large groups.
All I know is quest promised alot with those damn comercials. Usenet pretty much come closest to delivering. | |
| | | ebiebi
join:2003-08-13
Albuquerque, NM
1 edit | Re: This is only partly due to warez I thought those SVCD groups were bad with movies images mounting up to 1.6 gigs. Now people are upping 4.5 gig images? Its insane. Its like posting regular wav files instead of compressing them into MP3's. I don't have comcast anymore but If I did it would not take too many of those DVD images to find the magical invisible cap. Personally, I don't think its worth the time and trouble to DL so much for one movie. Its pretty wasteful use of Usenet. I am not bashing it or anything. I don't care what people do with usenet. Usenet is what I have always called no mans land. People have always complained about it for one thing or another going back as far as I have used it since 1995. But one thing is for sure, its always been uncontrollable. Its really funny to see the morality cops try to control it or change it. Over the years I have been entertained with some pretty bizarre trollings and threads. I wonder over the years what the RIAA or MPAA will do to stop it? Being that it does not have centralized servers and its global in nature makes it what it is. But seriously, I think these huge multi gig files are way to much to ask for an ISP news server. | |
| | | | Facekhan
join:2002-05-01
Gaithersburg, MD
| Newsgroups not that important I hate to admit it but hardly anyone uses newsgroups. I think that the best thing isp's could do is make it an optional add on to internet access accounts so the rest of us don't have to pay for what is an expensive service to provide and manage that only a tiny fraction of internet users still use.
--
FaceKhanCitizen Khan dot com | |
| | | |
|
|
