 
gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
clubs:
1 edit | No luck here I've had bad experiences with 3G here in Florida (Orlando and Jacksonville area). I love the iPhone but not impressed with the network. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: No luck here said by gigahurtz  :I've had bad experiences with 3G here in Florida (Orlando and Jacksonville area). I love the iPhone but not impressed with the network. You and me both. I'm in North Carolina - with 5 bars of 3G service - and I drop calls like hot potatoes. I have only had my AT&T service for a few months, yet I never had this problem in over 6 years with Verizon/Sprint or Nextel ... even with a lower signal.
At first, I thought it may have been the iPhone, but I have an old LG GSM phone and even when I swap the SIM, I still drop calls or simply can't make them for a few hours. We have 2 iPhones in my house and they both experience the same issues, even if one of us is a block up the street at the store ... we still drop calls like crazy.
Luckily, the service is $100 or so cheaper than Verizon. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: No luck here said by ninjatutle :Its pretty solid here. I'm connected for over 6.5 hours. When I drop calls I still have a data connection. Even when I couldn't make calls for 2 hours or so, I could still use 3G to access the web and such. | |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| I have nothing bad at all to say about AT&T in Florida. I've been in Orlando a bit and never had an issue there.
I don't own an iPhone, and never well. I was using a Samsung EPiX and now I am using a Nokia E71. I might have a dropped call once a month.
I used to have Sprint and it was complete trash.
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PRescott7-2097 | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| GSM Is GSM to blame here, or something else? I'll admit, I'm not really a fan of GSM networks around here - have had several people's calls just drop for no apparent reason when they're using GSM phones; T-Mobile or AT&T. Even worse when on the edge of coverage, it seems far less reliable than CDMA, especially in "fringe" areas.
Never had an issue w/my CDMA phone, even at large events like Lollapalooza last year (sponsored by AT&T) - granted, Chicago is also 'home turf' to my carrier, U.S. Cellular  | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: GSM Wasn't AT&T's 3G network some sort of hack of CDMA?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: GSM Hack is a bit of a bad term for it.
CDMA is a spec for an air interface, as is TDMA and AMPS (analog)
CDMA2000(CDMA 1x/EVDO) use a 1.25MHz carrier channel and ANSI core (compatible with AMPS/TMDA)
UMTS/WCDMA uses a 5MHz carrier channel and MAP core (compatible with GSM)
UMTS/WCDMA is closer to EVDV, as it runs both voice and data over the 3G network.
With CDMA 2000, voice goes over 1x, data uses EVDO or 1x.
The main issue with UMTS/WCDMA is the size of the 3g voice/data channels. 5MHz is 'huge' (ie. 1 carrier hannel is the equivalent of PCS D license block) This poses problems for migration of users to 3G where spectrum is tight. Here in L.A., where 1 carrier channel was initially deployed, 3G was unusable for voice/data as it was typically overwhelmed.
In the end... AT&T just dropped the ball. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
·Comcast
| said by amungus :Is GSM to blame here, or something else? I'll admit, I'm not really a fan of GSM networks around here - have had several people's calls just drop for no apparent reason when they're using GSM phones; T-Mobile or AT&T. Even worse when on the edge of coverage, it seems far less reliable than CDMA, especially in "fringe" areas. Never had an issue w/my CDMA phone, even at large events like Lollapalooza last year (sponsored by AT&T) - granted, Chicago is also 'home turf' to my carrier, U.S. Cellular You're not too far off on the distance thing, GSM has a 22 mile hard limit on signal, but CDMA has no such limit and can travel further, people have reported getting CDMA at 30 miles+. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: GSM said by cameronsfx :Problems I see: 1. Too many iPhone users. 2. Apple's love with "we only do it." 3. GSM networks are just plain overloaded. 4. Coverage sucks. (Non-GSM is just plain better. Bagphones are analog and had better signals). 5. Putting too much crap on a phone. Do you have a MP3 player, Camera, Internet browser, etc. on your home phone? No. 6. Made in China. (I would never buy a DVD or VCR player/recorder that said "Made in China") The Most Important Reason: 7. 1 T1 line supplies a cell tower. (Sorta like using a regular pipe in the home to flush 50 toilets at once. That doesn't work either.) Great post!
Only ignorant people would blame GSM when it's the network standard for the biggest and most advanced wireless networks all over the world.
No it's NOT GSM - it's the GREEDY, PoS incompetent AT&T, nothing else.
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE] | |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul One thing that most people don't realize is that cell phone towers are usually attached to a single 1.5Mbps T1 line. So even if your connection to the cell tower reads 3Mbps then you may be limited from the cell tower to the cell phone company's connection. And that's if you are the only one connecting to that cell tower.
This is the problem Sprint (Clear) is having with deploying WiMax. They can't get enough T1s to the cell towers where WiMax is deployed.
So the problem and probably the problem AT&T was having was not that their technology couldn't handle it, there is just a limit to the backhaul connections. Every cell phone provider faces this same problem. It will be a real challenge when trying to roll out LTE over the next few years. Coverage and rollout will be slow. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul said by dcdeadbeat :One thing that most people don't realize is that cell phone towers are usually attached to a single 1.5Mbps T1 line. So even if your connection to the cell tower reads 3Mbps then you may be limited from the cell tower to the cell phone company's connection. And that's if you are the only one connecting to that cell tower. This is the problem Sprint (Clear) is having with deploying WiMax. They can't get enough T1s to the cell towers where WiMax is deployed. So the problem and probably the problem AT&T was having was not that their technology couldn't handle it, there is just a limit to the backhaul connections. Every cell phone provider faces this same problem. It will be a real challenge when trying to roll out LTE over the next few years. Coverage and rollout will be slow. Why is this only a problem for AT&T and not Sprint, Verizon, Alltel or any other CDMA carrier? Why? Because that's not the problem. The problem is GSM. | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
 ·Vonage
| Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul said by Matt :said by dcdeadbeat :One thing that most people don't realize is that cell phone towers are usually attached to a single 1.5Mbps T1 line. So even if your connection to the cell tower reads 3Mbps then you may be limited from the cell tower to the cell phone company's connection. And that's if you are the only one connecting to that cell tower. This is the problem Sprint (Clear) is having with deploying WiMax. They can't get enough T1s to the cell towers where WiMax is deployed. So the problem and probably the problem AT&T was having was not that their technology couldn't handle it, there is just a limit to the backhaul connections. Every cell phone provider faces this same problem. It will be a real challenge when trying to roll out LTE over the next few years. Coverage and rollout will be slow. Why is this only a problem for AT&T and not Sprint, Verizon, Alltel or any other CDMA carrier? Why? Because that's not the problem. The problem is GSM. If the problem is with GSM, why is it not a major problem in other countries?
Seems to me AT&T are the biggest culprits in the 3G poor QOS arena. | |
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TomS_
debugger it
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
Australia
| Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul Maybe they need to come over and take a page from the Australian 3G network book.
Weve got 4 players in the 3G space here in Australia.
Telstra being the biggest has fibre to many of their towers, with (as of recently) gigabit ethernet being rolled out progressively to support backhaul of 3G data. Telstra have some microwave based backhaul but this seems less common than fibre.
Optus being the 2nd biggest appears to use a combination of fibre/other/microwave, with microwave being fairly common.
Vodafone would have to be the 3rd largest, and appears to use predominantly microwave for their entire network. Fibre/other is probably used in a minor capacity.
3/Hutchinson would be the 4th with just over 1 million customers. Their network covers only major metro areas of Australian capital cities and other major regional centres. Their network is also predominantly microwave based, and there is probably some fibre/other in there but I couldnt say to what extent, but I would say it is minor. Outside of Hutch's own coverage area they have a roaming agreement with Telstra.
Several months ago Optus was in the hot seat over poor performance on their 3G network, but this has been mostly fixed of late and reports of poor speed have mostly subsided.
Voda and Hutch will be merging soon, so that will take the number of players down to 3.
Other than that, I dont tend to read a lot about people complaining of poor service/speeds. Things seem pretty peachy here in Aus.  | |
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| | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| Sprint no longer owns their own towers. They sold them off and are now lease access to them. So Sprint technically gets off the hook here.
The other carriers also have the same problem but this discussion was about AT&T and people in this forum seem to like to bash AT&T. | |
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TomS_
debugger it
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
Australia
| Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul There is a difference between owning a tower, and owning the gear on the tower.
Sprint may have sold off their towers (e.g. to someone like Crown Castle, American Tower, etc), but they will probably still own the mobile base station gear in the hut/building/enclosure below. | |
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Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA | Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul More reading on different kinds of metro ethernet here if you're interested »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_ethernet | |
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| | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| said by wifi4milez :said by dcdeadbeat :One thing that most people don't realize is that cell phone towers are usually attached to a single 1.5Mbps T1 line. Yes and no. I can tell you from personal experience that the mobile operators are no longer purchasing T1's to the towers whenever possible. They are all now using Ethernet due to its scalability regarding how much bandwidth each site can get. Of course, there are plenty of towers that still get T1's although that will change as time goes on. Carriers do not use EPL for rural (or even far out suburbs). They will continue to use T1s due to its ability to go long distances and cheap but reliable costs. That is unless Obama gives the carriers billions of dollars to lay fiber to the the cell tower (FTTCT because we need another term in this industry) as part of an economic stimulus package. Congress can just slip it in as "tin cans". Or maybe tack to the millions allocated for signs for national monuments. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul T1's are also VERY reliable. | |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| You're completely correct. The problem with AT&T isn't entirely in its 3G deployment (HSPA itself is, admittedly, superior in a perfect implementation to EV-DO), however, but the combination of insufficient backhaul, terrible density buildout and frequency reuse on AT&Ts part, and the sheer density of iPhones on the network.
Let's get one thing clear here, and that's that the GSM-based carriers in the US also are party to the most immature 3G networks. CDMA is still king in the land of the free, and Verizon as well as Sprint have a far more mature, robust Ev-Do roll out than any of their GSM counterparts.
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"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB. | |
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other23123
@sbcglobal.net
| Here you go Really its ATT network and how it was designed..
On the back haul part, sprint is using a microwave back haul for all of those locations..
ATT Speed issue on the iphone is due to the iphone using limiting hardware, the GSM cheap will only go up to X | |
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ATT 4 the lose
@rr.com
| Drive Test I'm constantly surprised by how high ATT scores in some of the JD Power and Consumer Reports on network quality. It's obvious after hearing so many reports of network outages online and issues among my friends with their iphones that the ONLY reason they are still scoring well is due to perception.
A real world experience here: Last fall me and 3 friends were driving down to Texas from KC to watch the TCU/BYU football game. Half of us had Curves on Sprint and the other half had 3G iphones, and i also had an aircard through Sprint. The whole way my friends with iphones were barely pulling edge on the highway while we had full EVDO. I plugged in my card to my laptop and we were watching videos on hulu the whole way. And it's not like this is through major cities or anything. In between Dallas, OK City, Wichita and KC there is nothing there but yet we still had full EVDO. And even worse, at the football game down in Dallas my buddies couldn't make a call or send a text at all. The By the end of the trip it was just down right embarrassing. I know they've also had the same issue when they were at a conference in San Jose - dropped and blocked calls consistently throughout the trip.
I don't think ATT's network is crap everywhere but they definitely have major issues in key markets due to being overloaded. | |
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Gilitar
join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL
·AT&T Southeast
| Unimpressive The only reasons I am with AT&T is the iPhone and the fact that I have so many friends with AT&T. Their 3G network is just plain awful. The only time I get good speeds is when everyone else is sleeping. I too have issues of dropping to edge frequently. I might very well give Sprint another chance in the next year if I can let go of my iPhone. | |
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rahlquist
Redeye
join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA | Re: Always bad in Austin Ditto Atlanta | |
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attuser69
@grandenetworks.net | Great signal on 3G at Burnet and 2222 area. 1mbps+ consistently.
Haven't been downtown lately, so I haven't checked it during SXSW in that area. | |
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itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA | AT&T is fine No issues in Central PA, S. Jersey and North Jersey.
AT&T works and has worked excellent. Much better than the "NOTwork". | |
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huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: AT&T is fine I carry ATTM and Sprint and live in S NJ/commute to & work in Philly. From my experience ATTM is far inferior to Sprint in this area. ATTM's service is capacity/backhaul limited; you can do things like check your e-mail on it, but if you try to do anything requiring a constant connection and steady traffic it craps out. Constant disconnects, need to change APs back and forth between isp.cingular and wap.cingular, etc.
Sprint on the other hand is rock-solid. Can listen to internet radio or stream via Orb all day long at work with nary a hiccup. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: AT&T is fine said by huntml :Sprint on the other hand is rock-solid. Can listen to internet radio or stream via Orb all day long at work with nary a hiccup. I better check your college as well. That last sentence, i dont know. Please tell me what college you attended so that I can make sure that neither of my children applies there. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Not impressed either When I first had 3G on my Samsung ZX-20, data was OK, but voice calls would drop many times before the '3G' would change to 'G'.
I was able to force it to 'G' on the device so that I could make / receive calls.
As soon as the 2nd carrier channel went live, dropped calls stopped. I would have left to go to another carrier.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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TeddyOrl
@rr.com | ORLANDO I have no issues in Orlando Florida with att | |
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eleuthero
join:2005-06-03
Mesquite, TX
| att I have noted significant problems since switching to iphone with call dropping. Unlike most of the rest of the posters here, I am fairly certain it is an iphone implementation problem--I had a Fuze with great connection speeds/voice quality and then switched to the iphone as it had more functionality when working with macs... The iphone drops calls once to twice a week, usually in the same spots (despite showing 5 bars). If I avoid those locations, I have no problems--a call to customer service has not resolved the issue, of course.
3G data connectivity has been fine, though I have not used it much for more than the maps and exchange. | |
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timcuth
Braves Fan
Premium
join:2000-09-18
Pelham, AL
clubs: | 3G performance My phone occasionally loses touch with at&t 3g, switching to Edge. When it happens, I can hardly tell any difference. 
Tim | |
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| claykin
join:2003-08-22
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Re: 3G performance Turn off your 3G and you'll notice a batery life improvement! | |
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jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| From someone with 4 years at a WISP.... Well Duh
You are trying to shove all that crap up and down a single channel in a lot of places. Anybody with any WISP experience knows you can't run all your sites (close to one another) on the same channel, with out having problems. A perfect example is Meshing. I have yet to see that work right. And like the article says, higher speeds are going to have even more distance restrictions which will then turn into interference issues as the carriers pollute the airwaves with more towers.
It's a phone. If you want to watch TV.. plant your arse in front of your TV set. To those of you doing these things because you can do them while you're at a ballgame.... why did you pay for the Ticket to get into the game when you're not paying attention to it anyway. Seems like a waste to me. I'd love to have my Nokia 252C back and forget all of this extra crap.
The more we get wireless.... the more likely a Terminator scenario can turn from Science Fiction to Science Fact.
The only thing better wireless is TV (ie DTV and DBS) because their simply isn't enough bandwidth available to run quality HD even on fiber.... well not enough for an entire neighborhood. HD signals I have seen on 2 different cable providers are far inferior to my Dish Network HD, not to mention by DVR is smarter.
I suppose that's a little long | |
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adsluser
@kent.edu
| Re: From someone with 4 years at a WISP.... CDMA2000 and WCDMA are designed to reuse frequencies. That's why they are commonly used to implement cellular networks. This is one of the major advantages of using CDMA based technologies for cellular communication.
802.11abgn are not designed to do this | |
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jeffstumpf
join:2004-07-27
Larchmont, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| iPhone 3G - I have one and like it The iPhone is not a great phone or a great speaker phone.
The network is not the best network.
It is however adequate AND it excels in all other respects. I love the following:
1. SMS (text messaging) with the whole conversation viewable
2. My full safari browser
3. My applications (games, tools, emergency flashlight...)
LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of applications!!!!
4. My iPod (MP3 player, books, video)
5. My NY times, Stock checker, weather report...
6. My email (personal and business [exchange)
7. The full touch screen
8. My quick point and shoot camera
9. My Photos
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| pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA | Re: iPhone 3G - I have one and like it Agreed. iPhone is a jack of all trades and master of a few. Most phones are masters of only one or two key attributes and fail miserably everywhere else. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: iPhone 3G - I have one and like it It's always amusing when people from a 3rd World-level cell-phone country (USA) thinks iPhone is The PHONE and keep posting hilarious praises... 
FYI: having an iPhone in Asia is EMBARRASSING because it's CHEESY looking, LIMITED CAPABILITIES, VERY RESTRICTED FEATURES and LACKS VERY BASIC ONES. 
In Europe it's the same thing though it's not lame ovwer there - they are less gadget-freaks than say, Japanese or Koreans. However you could find BETTER phones in Europe YEARS AGO - essentially iPhone is another usual Apple product: re-introduced features that are available for LONG times, missing a LOT OF KEY FEATURES (multitasking, MMS, BT etc) and spent a smaller fortune on marketing while it's tied to giant, semi-monopolistic provider.
iPhone is LAME, seriously - the only positive thing about it is that Apple now forced everyone to make sure their true multitasking OS (WM, Android, S60 Open Symbian, WebOS etc) has a UI that is AT LEAST as snappy as the single-tasking iPhone (if not faster.)
When it comes to usefulness and features my Xperia runs circles around this toy called iPhone but I do want a UI just as responsive as iPhone's interface.
Other than that iPhone is a joke: no battery replacement, no keyboard, no stereo BT, no Flash (WM at least had some old crap Flash though it's that PoS company's loser incompetent production called Adobe) no HSUPA, no tethering etc and a lot of other, pathetically BASIC shortcomings (shitty camera, no MMS, no front cam, no Office, no WiFi sync, etc - hey there wasn't even landscape email writer!:D)
It isn't an accident they are already touting their months-away v3.0 OS update - new phones are arriving in hordes, all MUCH MORE advanced than iPhone, they have to fight off them...
...did it ever occur to any of you how the hell is that Sony Ericsson only sells their low-end phones here? I'll tell you: no provider picks up their high-end one because they are bounded by exclusive contracts, forced by other ones.
We need MUCH BETTER MARKET REGULATIONS against anti-competitive behavior - it's the same issue that caused the meltdown in the financial world, the lack of effective regulation.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE] | |
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claykin
join:2003-08-22
Fort Lauderdale, FL
·Comcast
| UMTS limited bandwidth In most cases a GSM tower upgraded to UMTS has separate equipment that handles the UMTS connections. Both at&t and TMobile have deployed an "entry level" amount of UMTS equipment to get the service started (just enough to qualify as a launch). They only have so many available data channels and backhaul bandwidth. Many UMTS towers have a single T1 handling the backhaul data and that each channel is capped at 300Kb. So, think about it, once more than 5 people start streaming Youtube videos (for example) off the tower, the UMTS equipment is forced to steal bandwidth from channels to provide it for another. When their UMTS equipment becomes maxed out they force you on to EDGE. These carriers never really prepared for data users who would stream and camp on a channels bandwidth.
Neither of our nationwide GSM carriers take data seriously like Verizon does. I keep hearing that its mostly due to LTE. LTE is supposedly a more elegant solution and its scalable to voice as well. The carriers don't want to spend Billions more upgrading their UMTS infrastructure any further when they'll be installing LTE within 2 years max.
Apple made a huge mistake by going with at&t. They should have worked out an arrangement with Verizon. iPhone users would be much happier.
My 2 cents | |
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John Keels
@appstate.edu
| 3G I live in Boone, NC and go to school at Appalachian State University. However, I am happy to report that Verizon's EVDO capacity and coverage even out here in the middle of nowhere (practically) is excellent. I ran a bandwidth test on 3G here the other day and it tested at 1.8mpbs. I have also used 3G in Asheville, Winston-Salem, and Charlotte on the Verizon network in NC as well as many places in between. It usually has good signal and no problems with capacity or slowdown that I can see. Why can't AT&T get their S&*& together? | |
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3G Network Limitations In the Limelight
Same in New Orleans
Re: slow network speeds are usually from the backhaul
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Re: 3G performance