 | | In this day and age... thats actually kind of sad. We should be further along than that. On the other hand, maybe copper can be milked for another 100 years! | |
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 |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: In this day and age... said by S_engineer:thats actually kind of sad. We should be further along than that. On the other hand, maybe copper can be milked for another 100 years! Go blame the people whose house are passed by fiber but who also choose to not buy it.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | Re: In this day and age... alot of people dont know what fiber is tho. | |
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| | |  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Re: In this day and age... And a lot of people dont care either | |
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| | | | | | Re: In this day and age... I agree. As long as I get a connection to the internet of reasonable speed I couldn't care less.
What I really would have liked to have FiOS for is the TV service. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: In this day and age... said by fifty nine:I agree. As long as I get a connection to the internet of reasonable speed I couldn't care less. That's like making the statement in 1910, "I don't care about the model T, its just as fast as my horse."
Now today can you imagine if we were all still riding horses?
The problem is that by not building the fiber infastructure we are stunting progress. There are applications *not* being developed right now becuase there isn't enough bandwidth to get it to the consumer.
And the real problem is that in 1996, we gave the telcos billions in tax payer dollars to build the network for us. If memory serves, the telcos agreed to build out to 80% of the homes by 2004. So it's 2009 and we are at 4%. But the telcos have the billions and have invested that money in restoring their monopoly and selling us that copper is all we need.
Imagine if the US government gave Henry Ford a billion dollars in 1910 and the exclusive right to produce the automobile in America and he invested in horse breeding? | |
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1 edit | Re: In this day and age... Actually your comparison isn't quite accurate.
Instead of a Model T, how about a honda civic versus a Cadillac Escalade.
Both can get me from point A to point B.
I have 30Mbps down/2Mbps up. I would like more upload but it works fine for me, for now. When there is a justification to do a full FTTH deployment, the cable companies are 3/4 of the way there, so they can just extend the fiber from the node to your house.
Verizon's FiOS product today isn't much different from cable at all. The speeds they are offering are well within what cable can offer and what is being offered in many markets.
Let me ask YOU the question - what do YOU need a fiber optic connection for? It's nice to have, but what do you need it for? | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: In this day and age... What do I need it for? Things that I haven't even imagined yet.
The point I'm trying to make is that companies are restricted in what they develop becuase it has to be compressed to fit down a 500 kbps connection.
If 80% of the homes in America had 80 Mbps connections can you imageine some of the apps that might be out there? Here's some ideas:
1. Multiple applications - today we use the internet for one thing at a time. Why not have it do 10 things?
2. The power company pings your house and knows immediately when your power is out.
2. Video chat instead of phone calls.
3. Virtually walk through a home on a real estate website.
4. Cyber malls.
Limitless possibilities. Things we don't even know to think about.
When the first computer was created in the 1950's I believe it was the magazine Popular Science said something to the affect of, "there will probably only be demand to build at most 4 computers in the world." | |
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| | | | | | said by baineschile:And a lot of people dont care either i dont | |
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| | | | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: In this day and age... because in a qwest state theres no way you're ever going to get fibre[unless its in your cereal]
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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| | | | | |  FBGuyyippee ki yayPremium
join:2005-03-19
 ·Comcast
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: In this day and age... said by dvd536:because in a qwest state theres no way you're ever going to get fibre[unless its in your cereal] lol | |
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| |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by pnh102:said by S_engineer:thats actually kind of sad. We should be further along than that. On the other hand, maybe copper can be milked for another 100 years! Go blame the people whose house are passed by fiber but who also choose to not buy it. Or those who see no benefit to it at all. Keep in mind that most people these days are buying based on cost, NOT simply frothing at the mouth when they hear the word "fiber". There is a reason that the 'Lite' broadband tier (usually less than 1Mbps) is the most popular these days. The promise of 50Mbps speeds sounds great to those of us on this forum, however for the family looking to cut costs its meaningless.
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | | Re: In this day and age... You raise an interesting point....whats the point of having 50Mbps speeds with a cap and overage costs looming overhead!
The cap essentially kills the need for higher speeds except for those that don't use their connections to the fullest extent!
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"When I was in junior high school, the teachers voted me the student most likely to end up in the electric chair."---Sylvestor Stallone | |
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| | | |  NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·Comcast
 ·Callcentric
| Re: In this day and age... said by S_engineer:You raise an interesting point....whats the point of having 50Mbps speeds with a cap and overage costs looming overhead! The cap essentially kills the need for higher speeds except for those that don't use their connections to the fullest extent! I may be wrong here, but there are no FIOS services that are capping right now. The players are all cable/DSL so far. That being said, I could be wrong a year down the road, but right now that just isn't the case. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: In this day and age... I know Verizons not capping, so let me rephrase....theres no incentive for other providers to switch due to a cap. Comcast has the most generous cap, however a 50m tier would make you reach the cap much faster.
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"When I was in junior high school, the teachers voted me the student most likely to end up in the electric chair."---Sylvestor Stallone | |
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| | | | | | NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Site5.com
·Comcast
·Callcentric
| Re: In this day and age... said by S_engineer:I know Verizons not capping, so let me rephrase....theres no incentive for other providers to switch due to a cap. Comcast has the most generous cap, however a 50m tier would make you reach the cap much faster. Depends on the customer that is downloading. I have friends who have FIOS that don't download 125gb in a month. Overall though, you are right. There really is no incentive for other providers to switch due to a cap. I see FIOS as a way for users to be able to switch from their capped lines to a non capped system. FIOS sells itself though. | |
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| | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by Nightfall:I may be wrong here, but there are no FIOS services that are capping right now. The players are all cable/DSL so far. That being said, I could be wrong a year down the road, but right now that just isn't the case. Your wrong. The Panacea UTOPIA has caps »Utopia: Symmetrical 50Mbps for $39.95 | |
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| | | | | | NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Site5.com
·Comcast
·Callcentric
| Re: In this day and age... said by patcat88:said by Nightfall:I may be wrong here, but there are no FIOS services that are capping right now. The players are all cable/DSL so far. That being said, I could be wrong a year down the road, but right now that just isn't the case. Your wrong. The Panacea UTOPIA has caps » Utopia: Symmetrical 50Mbps for $39.95 Wow, 100GB limit. 4 times that of Comcast. Still, good to know if you live in Utah and have access to the FIOS. I didn't know that so thanks for sharing. | |
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| | | | | | JPLPremium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:1
1 edit | said by patcat88:said by Nightfall:I may be wrong here, but there are no FIOS services that are capping right now. The players are all cable/DSL so far. That being said, I could be wrong a year down the road, but right now that just isn't the case. Your wrong. The Panacea UTOPIA has caps » Utopia: Symmetrical 50Mbps for $39.95 He was talking FiOS... not Utopia. Verizon doesn't cap their FiOS internet service. Unless he was confusing fiber with FiOS. If he was saying that all fiber services are uncapped, then I agree with you. | |
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| | | | | | | | Now this ISP really sucks, they offer 100mb/100mb fiber internet with a whopping 10GB MONTHLY transfer for $37.95 a month.
»online.localtel.net/grf.htm
Luckily, for customers of the fiber optic network they can choose from a few different isp providers since the network is owned by the county PUD which resells access to whatever ISP wants to offer internet to it's customers.
One ISP is offering 100/100 for $40 a month with no cap, another has 70/70 (no cap) for $40. | |
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|  DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | It took 20-40 years for copper to reach the point it is today, it will probably take just as long, for fiber to reach total penetration. | |
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| | NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Site5.com
·Comcast
·Callcentric
| Re: In this day and age... said by DaveDude:It took 20-40 years for copper to reach the point it is today, it will probably take just as long, for fiber to reach total penetration. Heck, It was back in 1995 with TRIALS were launched in a few major cities for broadband. It wasn't until 1996 when it was available in major cities and adoption rates were low. In 1998 I lived in a city and was using ISDN for my internet connection because there were no cable/dsl internet. It wasn't until 1999 when that changed.
You are right. FIOS is a very young technology. It took 14 years to get where we are now for broadband internet and we still don't have nationwide adoption rates for it. FIOS is going to take a while to get around. | |
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| | AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Re: In this day and age... It's expensive, but its a bit lower than $2000...  | |
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| | | | AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | Re: In this day and age... While the cynical side of me wants to agree with you regarding selective deployment, to date, that has not really proven out and most deployment agreements require Verizon to make the service available to all residents.
The charge for services can vary quite a bit depending on a lot of factors, but specifically referring to Verizon's cost per home we don't really need to estimate. They regularly publish their average cost per house passed and connected.
»policyblog.verizon.com/PolicyBlo···iOS.aspx
There is probably a more recent reference, but this is the first one that came up in Google specifically from Verizon themselves. | |
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| | | |  mrkevinKnowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.Premium
join:2007-08-07
Aurora, ME | That may be true in your area, but we are transitioning our entire OSP to FTTH and pulling down the copper when were done. In a rural area 400 square miles with 1500 +- customers.
The cost of copper cable is making fiber a much more viable option. | |
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| | its a start But the deployment is very very slow, and should we say cherry picking also? | |
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| baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Re: its a start Go to where the profit is....Cable gets scorned for it, but fiber gets applauded. | |
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| | Eh who needs it when you have comcastic magic boost!  | |
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| | | Re: Eh who needs it the pic looks more like att when they see the bill for FTTH. | |
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| |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: Eh who needs it said by hayabusa3303:the pic looks more like att when they see the bill for FTTH. ... or a new AT&T VRAD.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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1 edit | Re: Eh who needs it
before |
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| | | | dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: Eh who needs it LMAO! | |
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 kontosxyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY | doesn't homes passed = people that could buy if they wanted quote:
Of course being passed be fiber doesn't mean much if a carrier isn't running the fiber directly to your door.
And why would they run fiber to your door if you haven't bought a fiber service from them?
Nobody has given me a DBS dish either, are you going to make some sort of sideways comment about that, too? | |
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| | | Re: doesn't homes passed = people that could buy if they wanted It could be in reference to AT&T's greenfield fiber deployments. AT&T still sells U-verse DSL to those customers even though there is fiber running through their neighborhoods... | |
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| AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | said by kontos:And why would they run fiber to your door if you haven't bought a fiber service from them? Once the new system is completely available in a given area they will have incentive to connect all of the subscribers if for no other reason than once they have done so they can turn off the existing infrastructure eliminating dual costs. Obviously, those that want additional services would be a priority but after a certain point it is financially in their best interest to go back and connect the rest. | |
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Reviews:
·Cox HSI
 ·World Lynx
2 edits | Change everyone to fiber..... Fiber will not take off until the ILEC decides to TOTALLY replace their copper infrastructure with fiber. You don't necessarily have to have Internet access to get it. They just remove the copper line from the pole, string up or bury the fiber down to your house (in our town it is all underground, including the drop connections), tack up an ONT on the side of the building and connect it to your existing RJ-11 wiring. If you want internet, they run a cat-5 drop to the location you wish....
That is what our LEC did when they rolled the fiber out here. They sent out notices WAY ahead of time on the cutover date, advised you to make an appointment for install. Once the cutover date hit, if you weren't on fiber, your service was cut off UNTIL you had them come out. They had to cut you off, because the copper equipment was no longer connected and had to be removed.
The price only went up a dollar or so for regular phone service when you were converted over. Any additional services you wanted were icing on the cake. | |
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| dynodbPremium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Re: Change everyone to fiber..... said by N10Cities:Fiber will not take off until the ILEC decides to TOTALLY replace their copper infrastructure with fiber. You don't necessarily have to have Internet access to get it. They just remove the copper line from the pole, string up or bury the fiber down to your house (in our town it is all underground, including the drop connections), tack up an ONT on the side of the building and connect it to your existing RJ-11 wiring. If you want internet, they run a cat-5 drop to the location you wish.... Wow. Oversimplify much? The costs of running fiber are expensive by itself, but it's only one piece of the puzzle- there's much, much more to it. There's no "just" about it.
Fiber will not take off until there is demand for it from consumers. Given that only 30% of those passed by fiber elect to subscribe to FTTH (which includes those for whom FTTH is their only real option), the demand isn't yet there. Spending tens of billions to provide a service for which there is insufficient demand to recoup those costs is risky at best.
It might be argued that the demand will be there in the future (and it almost certainly will be) and thus they should start building it in advance, but going tens of billions in debt and the associated hundreds of millions in interest based on demand that may increase at some unforseen point in the future is a tough sell.
I hope Verizon's FTTH works out for them, but as it stands now they're a very long way from making a profit on it. As of Dec 2008, only 25% of those eligible for FiOS Internet subscribed. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·World Lynx
2 edits | Re: Change everyone to fiber..... No...no oversimplification...that is the way it happened here. This town is definitely no Silicon Valley by any stretch. The local ILEC decided to do it and got it done. If you will look at my earlier post, they rolled it out to EVERYONE on their system. There was no 'demand'. They saw the need to prepare for the future and upgraded the entire infrastructure...
If memory serves, they received a government grant to assist in the rollout which helped a great deal. Instead of milking the copper and dragging their feet, they saw the long term advantages in regards to providing services and also lower maintenance cost.
Our local ILEC is an independent company and not affiliated with a baby bell... | |
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| | | dynodbPremium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Re: Change everyone to fiber..... said by N10Cities:No...no oversimplification...that is the way it happened here... If memory serves, they received a government grant to assist in the rollout which helped a great deal. I assure you- there was a lot more involved than just stringing up some fiber.
That they deployed FTTH wasn't an example of enlightened forward thinking, it was because they got taxpayer money to do it. Skews the cost/benefit equation that businesses otherwise have to consider quite a lot.
Give the big telcos enough taxpayer money and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to deploy FTTH too. However, being that it's currently a luxury used mostly to download movies faster or watch TV, the question is whether adding hundreds of billions further to the national debt could be justified in subsidizing it. | |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
| fiber lol... Satellite services will probably claim they are a fiber service.. And the sad thing is.. People/government will likely fall for it.. In that case.. 100 pecent of america is covered by fiber already!! So get over it!! 
Thats basically what is said to us broadband deprieved people..... I swear.. I just want those satellites to just disappear.. Maybe the chineese lead paint will chip off and they'll burn up from the sun 
One day... One day | |
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Core0000Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY | Good news... Well it's truly awesome to see this progress happening. It really is.  (Even though it's all Verizon basically... better something than nothing) | |
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 spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1 | Well, I've got Fiber. Heck, I don't even know why I hang out with you copper fed, docsis 3.0, dsl weenies anyway!
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
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dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Passed... More like homes that aren't even offered the service but passed on the way to the affluent areas.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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|  HD_RidePremium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ
·VoicePulse
| Re: Passed... said by dvd536:More like homes that aren't even offered the service but passed on the way to the affluent areas. I guess you never been to Trenton NJ | |
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 TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro |  FIOS
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