  Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23 | Which is why Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. | |
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 | | | Re: Which is why I agree. My mom had cable and didn't know what the speed was. All she cared about is listening to her spanish radio channels and going to Univision for news and such.
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Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben
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|  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
| Exactly. Until something replaces youtube and flash video as the "killer webapp".
Right now, the primary area that is demanding faster speeds is wireless. Wireline can stay around 10-20mbps for a while methinks. Wireless is where bandwidth is extremely limited, but in even more demand.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | Re: Which is why If they got rid of caps or offer a unlimited tier and expanded tower range especially into the small rural towns wireless might get better for those who cant get cable or DSL. | |
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| | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: Which is why Wireless is currently capacity-limited for 3G. That's why Clear doesn't have caps, and has uncapped speeds. | |
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| Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. I agree. This supports my contention that "unlimited" is targeted at the majority of people who will never see a limit (in practice, not theory).
I bet 80-90% of internet users don't care about the things debated at DSLR. If that's true, the question would be how to reach those people and affect baby-step influence from them. (Not the special-interest stuff which often dominates here.).
Mark | |
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| | | | Re: Which is why But the nature of the internet is such that applications that people want to use only develop when there is a market for them: in other words when high enough speeds are provisioned for ubiquitous use by the populace of a new, demanding application.
A perfect example is OnLive, which will not be successful without the cable and FTTH industry's help.
At any rate, if regulations were enforced to make the market competitive (line sharing, etc.), speeds would continually go up and the number of underserved would decrease over time without anyone complaining. | |
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| | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Which is why said by sonicmerlin:But the nature of the internet is such that applications that people want to use only develop when there is a market for them: in other words when high enough speeds are provisioned for ubiquitous use by the populace of a new, demanding application. That's never how its been. If that were the case, broadband penetration in 2005 would have been 80% when YouTube became the "killer app" for the internet. On the contrary. Demand for faster speeds was because there was finally an application that users were interested in which drastically benefited from broadband speeds.
A perfect example is OnLive, which will not be successful without the cable and FTTH industry's help. That's not why OnLive won't be successful. It's because it's not sufficiently reliable or better than the alternatives (like Steam).
At any rate, if regulations were enforced to make the market competitive (line sharing, etc.), speeds would continually go up and the number of underserved would decrease over time without anyone complaining. Why on earth would ATT and Verizon invest in beefing up their capacity if they'd simply be forced to carry everyone else's traffic?
That's like telling a homeowner that they must allow 2 homeless people to sleep in their house (but you'll be compensated!). Oh, and if the homeowner expands their house, the homeless people who are now living there also get a proportional amount of that space for their own uses. What homeowner is ever going to invest in expanding their house if they're only going to get a portion of their investment back for themselves?
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | Reviews:
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Which is why said by tiger72  That's like telling a homeowner that they must allow 2 homeless people to sleep in their house (but you'll be compensated!). Oh, and if the homeowner expands their house, the homeless people who are now living there also get a proportional amount of that space for their own uses. What homeowner is ever going to invest in expanding their house if they're only going to get a portion of their investment back for themselves?
Asinine fallacious analogies aren't convincing anyone. | |
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| | | | | | quote:
That's never how its been. If that were the case, broadband penetration in 2005 would have been 80% when YouTube became the "killer app" for the internet. On the contrary. Demand for faster speeds was because there was finally an application that users were interested in which drastically benefited from broadband speeds.
We've had streaming video for a very long time. It wasn't until broadband became ubiquitous enough that a site like Youtube could become viable. Now Youtube allows for HD videos, something that DSL customers can't use. It's a big reason defections to cable are threatening DSL companies' bottom lines.
quote:
That's not why OnLive won't be successful. It's because it's not sufficiently reliable or better than the alternatives (like Steam).
Regardless of whether you think their business model is convenient enough for the customer or not, the presence of ample bandwidth and the absence of a cap on internet users will be necessary for OnLive's service to succeed.
quote:
Why on earth would ATT and Verizon invest in beefing up their capacity if they'd simply be forced to carry everyone else's traffic?
Because a competitor making money off those rented lines would gradually build out their own infrastructure, the same way free.fr has.
The FCC's recently commissioned study found that line-sharing policies spurred investment both around the world and immediately after the passage of the '96 Telecom Act. Facts are facts. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·VOIPo
 ·Windstream
·BroadVoice
| Re: Which is why said by sonicmerlin:We've had streaming video for a very long time. It wasn't until broadband became ubiquitous enough that a site like Youtube could become viable. Now Youtube allows for HD videos, something that DSL customers can't use. It's a big reason defections to cable are threatening DSL companies' bottom lines. Umm I have DSL and can stream 1080p on youtube without buffering, wanna rethink you stament.
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ASUS M4A79T Deluxe | AMD Phenom II x3 720 BE AM3 w/4 Cores @ 3.41Ghz(OC) | 4Gb DDR3 Memory @ 1600mhz | Sapphire ATI HD4870 1GB 800mhz/1000mhz(OC) | 2x500GB HDD's Raid 0 | Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Build 7600 (RTM) | Windstream DSL 12m (14.9m Sync)/766k | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Which is why said by Napsterbater:said by sonicmerlin:We've had streaming video for a very long time. It wasn't until broadband became ubiquitous enough that a site like Youtube could become viable. Now Youtube allows for HD videos, something that DSL customers can't use. It's a big reason defections to cable are threatening DSL companies' bottom lines. Umm I have DSL and can stream 1080p on youtube without buffering, wanna rethink you stament. No not really. The vast majority of DSL customers can't access more than 1.5 or 3 Mbit tiers, and even those are often prohibitively expensive. Copper lines are aging and becoming increasingly unreliable. | |
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| | | | said by amigo_boy:said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. I agree. This supports my contention that "unlimited" is targeted at the majority of people who will never see a limit (in practice, not theory). I bet 80-90% of internet users don't care about the things debated at DSLR. If that's true, the question would be how to reach those people and affect baby-step influence from them. (Not the special-interest stuff which often dominates here.). Mark I guarantee they will start caring if caps are implemented and they start getting charged for them.
80-90% of all statistics are made up. | |
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| | | | | Re: Which is why said by digitalfreak:I guarantee they will start caring if caps are implemented and they start getting charged for them. 80-90% of all statistics are made up. How about a real statistic then, that was released by Cisco last year from data gathered from its top ISP customers.
The average broadband user uses only 42kbps of data.
So the average broadband user is never going to hit anyone's cap, unless it is unrealistically low. | |
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|  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. In general - I agree with that statement.
I have no issue with even a 3Mbps connection, as long as it is cheaper than my current (10/1Mbps + boost).
However, I don't feel justified in paying AT&T for a 3Mbps/512Kbps $35 DSL connection, when on TWC I pay the same (bundled) for 10Mbps/1Mbps.
If AT&T was $20 for dry loop 3Mbps, I'd cancel TWC. | |
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| | | | Re: Which is why Yeah, I have 7Mbps on TWC and don't really need it. I'd get 4Mbps (enough to stream Netflix) if it would cost less but it doesn't.
My older brother (non-techie) has 10Mbps thinking he needed it but he doesn't at all. Only does web browsing, nothing else. Not even streaming audio. He was sold on it when ordering service, order taker telling him he would have a faster experience. | |
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|  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
·Comcast
·magicjack.com
| said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. Eh, mostly right. I think stability is the most important feature. Price does come into play, but I think an average consumer will pay a bit more, if the connection is "always on" as opposed to the services that consistantly drop out.
Most people dont notice speed, as there isnt a big difference between a 1mb and 50mb connection when doing some basic internet browsing, and checking email. | |
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| | | | Re: Which is why said by baineschile:said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. Eh, mostly right. I think stability is the most important feature. Price does come into play, but I think an average consumer will pay a bit more, if the connection is "always on" as opposed to the services that consistantly drop out. Most people dont notice speed, as there isnt a big difference between a 1mb and 50mb connection when doing some basic internet browsing, and checking email. A lot of people don't know what "speed" is quantitatively, but they recognize it qualitatively. It's one reason cable is causing DSL providers to bleed customers. A lot of people watching streaming video on Youtube will have difficulty streaming high-def with plain old DSL, for example.
Similar problems will occur with OnLive. | |
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| WHT
join:2010-03-26
kudos:3 | said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. That's what I'm seeing over the past year. People don't care if I have a 1 Mbps, 2.5 Mbps, or 4 Mbps plan...all they see is the cost per month.
Likewise, I'm closing 10% more sales when I offer a $159 install spread over two months ($79.50) instead of $149 up front. | |
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| | Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| Re: Which is why said by WHT:said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. That's what I'm seeing over the past year. People don't care if I have a 1 Mbps, 2.5 Mbps, or 4 Mbps plan...all they see is the cost per month. The most dramatic proof I've seen of that is MagicJack. Unlimited (in the sense that 99% of customers don't notice a limit) phone service with a real phone number for $1.67 per month.
And then people complain about things that amount to 20 cents a month(!). People commit themselves to 5 years of service just because it will save them 50 cents for month (oblivious to how VoIP companies come and go, and MJ's quality/policies haven't been entirely positive over the past 2 years.).
Mark | |
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| | | | said by WHT:said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. That's what I'm seeing over the past year. People don't care if I have a 1 Mbps, 2.5 Mbps, or 4 Mbps plan...all they see is the cost per month. Likewise, I'm closing 10% more sales when I offer a $159 install spread over two months ($79.50) instead of $149 up front. Then why are DSL providers losing customers, AT&T upgrading to VDSL, Verizon upgrading to FTTH, and the FCC worried we might end up with a monopoly in most markets when DOCSIS 3 becomes ubiquitous? | |
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| | | Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| Re: Which is why said by sonicmerlin:Then why are DSL providers losing customers, In my case, it was 80% money. I could have switched to cable for 3-4 years (faster speed at the same price). But, after using MagicJack for awhile, I realized I could switch to cable and lose both replace my Earthlink and Qwest monthly bills ($55) with one Cox bill ($30).
If I would have had naked DSL, I would have probably remained there.
PS: I wouldn't recommend using MJ as a landline replacement. I've had a few regrets. It's not for everyone.
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| | | said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. weird maybe this is a USA issue cause when asked everyone here knows the speeds , price and in one case the cap | |
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|  TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | said by Z80A:Price is king, not speed. Most people don't give a crap so long as they can stream some youtube and send email without it taking an hour. Exactly.
-Tzale | |
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 MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA
kudos:1
1 edit | I know who the 1 out of 5 are! They are the subscribers to DSLR!
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| elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: I know who the 1 out of 5 are! said by Mizzat:They are the subscribers to DSLR! Bingo.
DSLR is a bubble. | |
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| | | | Re: I know who the 1 out of 5 are! said by elray:said by Mizzat:They are the subscribers to DSLR! Bingo. DSLR is a bubble. Exactly. Speedtest sites are only able to give the "mostly" accurate speeds that DSLR users see because they're pretty much the only ones using the things. If everyone was using these sites, you wouldn't see accurate speeds because the servers or the links to them would be saturated and unable to give you a "mostly" accurate test. | |
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 jlivingoodPremium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:1 | Also Have a New Site They also have a new site concerning this, available at »www.testmyisp.com.
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JL
Comcast | |
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 Acuity
join:2002-06-22
Londonderry, NH | I'm surprised... I thought it would've been more like 19/20. | |
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|  japPremium
join:2003-08-10
038xx | Re: I'm surprised... Yeah, me too. I kinda doubt 20% know, off the top of their heads, what as-sold speeds they bought. Believable to me for smartphone users but not fixed residential. Wonder if they did any poll correction for the "overstating kinowledge" factor and, if so, was it a generic percentage correction or an actual look-back on polling replies.
Also, this is one of those topics that varies tremendously by region. | |
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| | Oh Please The majority of people living in China are "satisfied" with their government and the way it handles things. It helps when you're bombarded with corporate propaganda (commercials) about how great everything is and when you don't know just how much better it is in places like Sweden and France. | |
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See 22 replies to this post |
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 aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | Well I guess I can't use it Under requirements it says,
"..You are not a heavy downloader. We'd classify anything above 30GB per month as being too heavy for us to gather useful results."
30GB a month is considered a heavy downloader?!!?! WTH!!!
Just a few movies from VUDU, Amazon, Xbox Live, etc. pushes me past 30GB. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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 laff
@clearwire-wmx.net | Big Brother "We'll be deploying our rather lovely SamKnows "White boxes"*, an asset to any home, filled with some clever technology to volunteers all around the country. Once connected to your home network the unit will perform a series of tests at regular intervals during the day, every day of the year, with little to no involvement from you, simple!"
Seriously?!? Can't get much less CREEEEPY than "Sam Knows". Not that I support the ISPs, but it sounds like a Ministry of Information initiative. | |
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| japPremium
join:2003-08-10
038xx | Re: explains a lot said by FBGuy:No wonder this country is such a craphole. Why do you hate America? 
My fav wingnut red-herring logical fallacy. | |
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| | SBC (At&T) takes advantage of this regularly They always give you less than what you pay for and you have to complain to get your speed ramped up. They blame it on the "ramp up process" failing, but it has happened to me every time (three times) I've moved my service and every time (two times) a friend of mine has moved theirs.
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"You do know that OS-X is built on BSD, which is a derivative of Unix. So in essence, you are still using Linux." --gregz | |
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| | I believe it... All my clients in the N/W indiana region don't know their speeds. Unfortunately... its my first question I ask... the second is... wheres the bill? | |
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| | Gotta wonder Should be interesting to see what the telcos/cablecos do to try and skew the results. | |
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Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| geography this statement only holds true when you consider that major populations are within stone's throw of vast fiber optics backbones. those 1/5 who don't live in a populated geography and a few speed demons really don't like how the telco & cablecos have monopolized the internet and profiteered and fought off competition by nearly as disgusting tactics as anti-abortion activists. | |
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 rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY | Speed Racer I know mine. I'm special. Yeah man.... | |
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| BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN Reviews:
·Integra Telecom
·voip.ms
·T-Mobile US
| Re: We lead the charge.. said by gatorkram:Ask any non-gamer what gpu they have in their system... Ask any non-compter savvy person what speed ram they have in their system... We are the bleeding edge, and we demand more. Without us pushing, the speeds would be going nowhere. You can find this in any enthusiast community. Without some group of people pushing for more more more, any segment would be dormant. Unfortunately, what I've found from my experience, ISPs don't really care because most of the time it's the minority portion of their customers demanding more speed. To them, they'd rather wait it out while the majority is still happy.
Funny enough though, some of these regional ISPs don't act even when the majority is unhappy. All you can do is replace them with someone else. | |
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|  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·voip.ms
| said by gatorkram:We are the bleeding edge, and we demand more. Without us pushing, the speeds would be going nowhere. Without some group of people pushing for more more more, any segment would be dormant. And no one outside of this website would notice, or care. And life would go on.  | |
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| |  Expansion Not Speed!!
end of story | |
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| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: Expansion Not Speed!! Its cheaper to deploy DOCSIS 3 for ten customers than it is to provide new service to one. | |
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| | | But they do use this money to pay for expansion also. DOCSIS 3.0 not only increases speeds for people that buy DOCSIS 3.0 service, but it also provides more downstream channels for people that don't upgrade. So people with 7mbit connections will connect to 1 of 4 downstream channels instead of just having 1 that everyone is connected to.
If they upgraded everyone instantly and at no extra cost to DOCSIS 3.0, then no, they wouldn't gain anything really. But this is not what most cable companies are doing. It is too expensive to upgrade millions of customer modems, instead, they will let people upgrade that specifically ask for it, or only sell the DOCSIS 3.0 speed to new customers and slowly upgrade the old ones as their modems break. | |
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| | They should have done another study. "4 out of 5 don't know how to set privacy settings on facebook, much less think about what to post."
Probably would have been a much more effective survey. | |
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We lead the charge..