Share Your AirLinspot: reselling your bandwidth ( old news - 10:21AM Wednesday Mar 10 2004) tags: business · wireless · bandwidthLinspot is the latest service to pitch the idea of selling your bandwidth via Wi-Fi to passers-by. The problem is there's not a real big demand for bandwidth in your suburban driveway at the moment. You download Linspot software, offer your hotspot as part of their "network", and they grab fifteen percent of the profit. Pricing for those trying to access your hotspot is $2.50 per hour, $5.00 per day, $12.00 per week, or $25.00 per month. The idea arrived with a quiet thump last week via outlets like Mac Central, but as the Business 2.0 staff blog points out, we've been here before. It's exactly the sort of idea that put a provider by the name of Joltage out of business, with a few added wrinkles. Slower than expected demand led to an early demise for an idea that saw no shortage of hype when originally launched. Linspot suffers from the same disease that infected Joltage; namely the lack of a sustainable business model. For starters Boingo offers monthly access for $21.95 compared to Linspot's $25, so immediately access costs more than establishing (if Boingo can be called such) Wi-Fi networks. If you're accessing a patchwork quilt of home-user hotspots which may or may not be on, etc....you'd likely expect to pay a little less. Also unless you live in a compact urban environment, you may have trouble finding customers; demand in the back third of your subdivision where the developers keep the lawnmowers simply may not be that great. Even in many urban environments, you can usually find a hotspot you don't have to pay for; a problem for even established national Wi-Fi providers. Other problems include the fact that the system only works if you turn off encryption, and as Business 2.0 notes, it's a risk to assume you know what the software is actually monitoring. What's more, what are your "customers" actually doing? Can you be held responsible? Another possible problem Business 2.0 doesn't mention is the fact that many ISP's restrict the resale of bandwidth via Wi-Fi. DSL provider Speakeasy' Netshare initiative encourages doing so, but they're in the minority. The majority of providers are far less accommodating. Time Warner caused a ruckus in 2002 by threatening the owners of hotspots with nasty-grams, going so far as to suggest they remove them altogether. At one point in their history, AT&T Broadband was actually flying over subscriber areas looking for users who were sharing their bandwidth. While those tactics have diminished with the surge in Wi-Fi popularity, the mentality among many ISP's has not; particularly if you're selling. Related:- Verizon Offers New Prepaid Wireless Broadband Plans
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  Camelot One Premium,MVM join:2001-11-21 Sarasota, FL clubs:
1 edit | TOS issues? As the article points out, VERY few ISP's allow reselling your bandwidth. In fact most list it as a cardinal sin, one that gives them complete justification in shutting down your connection completely.
Not to mention the severe security and liability risks you open up here...does the average Joe reselling his line now have to maintain IP records like ISP's do, in case law enforcement wants to look at someone? Is your own network secure from those "buying" temporary time on your connection?
This just sounds like a bad idea all the way around.
There was an apartment complex here in FL that tried to do something similar last year. They purchased a fat Comcast line, and installed wi-fi gear throughout the place. Residents were able to purchase dial up speed wifi internet access for $10 a month. (I assume only dial up speed, because when you try to split a 3Mb line 50+ ways, it gets pretty small) Comcast caught on, shut down the line, and then sued the management company. Not sure what came of the lawsuit, but I do know the wi-fi plan has not been replaced with anything else. All of those residents that purchased wi-fi cards for the network just have a useless card now. | |
|  |   Bobcat Premium join:2001-02-04 Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: TOS issues? An ISP would have to be crazy to allow people to resell their bandwidth. They want your neighbors to get their own accounts instead of borrowing yours.
"...Residential Optimum Online users may not... Resell, share, or otherwise distribute the Service or any portion thereof to any third party without the written consent of Cablevision. For example, Subscriber may not provide Internet access to others through a dial up connection, wireless access or host shell accounts over the Internet, provide e-mail or news service, or send a news feed."
-- "...Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons..." » George W. Bush, October 7, 2002. | |
|  |  |   Camelot One Premium,MVM join:2001-11-21 Sarasota, FL clubs:
| Re: TOS issues? I agree. And then there is the issue of pricing. As much as we complain about the cost of broadband in the US, the fact is it would be a lot higher if providers charged based on 24/7 line saturation on every account. And they would have to if line reselling took off. -- AMD XP2500+ @2388mhz/ Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC3500/ WD 120Gb on serial/ Gainward GF4 4600/ Enermax 465P-VE/Custom water cooler | |
|  |  |   KyleC Nikon Guy Premium join:2001-12-13 Dallas, TX | Speakeasy.net encourages reselling...but their prices are pretty high. | |
|  |  |  |   borborpa Slipping Slowly Into Oblivion Premium join:2002-02-20 New Cumberland, PA clubs:
·Speakeasy
| Re: TOS issues? SE does not say how much to resell for. They allow you to set the monthly price for reselling Wi-Fi, and you get 50%. They do set up E-Mail, etc for the new person as well. -- There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.[AIM - BoyBandsMakeUGay] | |
|  |   Safron
join:2001-07-25 Gray, GA clubs: | "Other problems include the fact that the system only works if you turn off encryption"
If encryption is turned off, can't anyone use the "hot spot" without subscribing to the service? | |
|  |  |   MrTangent
join:2001-12-28 Earth
| Re: TOS issues? said by Safron : "Other problems include the fact that the system only works if you turn off encryption"
If encryption is turned off, can't anyone use the "hot spot" without subscribing to the service?
It uses its own, "end-to-end" encryption. I assume it's proprietary, so WEP is unneeded.
-- "War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength." | |
|  |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| said by Camelot One :
Not to mention the severe security and liability risks you open up here...does the average Joe reselling his line now have to maintain IP records like ISP's do, in case law enforcement wants to look at someone?
There is no legal requirement to "maintain IP records". -- Advanced security:»project.honeynet.org/papers/sebek.pdf | |
|  |  |   Camelot One Premium,MVM join:2001-11-21 Sarasota, FL clubs:
| Re: TOS issues? Are you sure about that? I thought they were required to keep them for a certain period of time (thinking 6 months for some reason) for law enforcement purposes. And it is that requirement that is causing problems with the RIAA, because they can't just say they deleted the records.
Maybe it is just an industry agreed upon thing rather than a law. -- AMD XP2500+ @2388mhz/ Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC3500/ WD 120Gb on serial/ Gainward GF4 4600/ Enermax 465P-VE/Custom water cooler | |
|  |  |  |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| Re: TOS issues? As far as I am aware there is no requirement to maintain any records of who had what IP address when... If there are please correct me because I have a vested interest in being correct on this one.  -- Advanced security:»project.honeynet.org/papers/sebek.pdf | |
|  |   dddane
join:2002-01-10 Chicago, IL
| the number of ISPs that don't shun bandwidth reselling is increasing. As someone pointed out here already, Speakeasy encourages it. I think many DSL providers are more and more willing to let you do this. AFAIK, SBC allows you to do this now, too. There are others, too. For them, its a competitive advantage over cable modems.
Bandwidth can easily be split up, and the average wireless user isn't going to be downloading 400 mb files anyway.
I just looked at LinSpot's page, it seems to be Mac only? This in it of itself is a limiting factor as far as their business is concerned. They have no hotspots in Illinois--not even Chicago. I can drive down the average downtown Chicago block and pick up 2 free/open access points on every block, why would I want to pay for this? | |
|   KyleC Nikon Guy Premium join:2001-12-13 Dallas, TX | What about illegal activity??
do you then become an ISP, are you liable for illegal activity that occurs on your line?
many questions to be answered. | |
|  |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| Re: What about illegal activity?? said by KyleC : do you then become an ISP, are you liable for illegal activity that occurs on your line?
many questions to be answered.
ISP's are not liable for illegal activity that occurs on their line. Life would be simpler if they were. They are liable for illegal activity which occurs AFTER they become aware that it is ongoing, if and only if they do not take measures to prevent it. -- Advanced security:»project.honeynet.org/papers/sebek.pdf | |
|   JeedaiKnight 0verthinking Premium join:2002-03-15 Portland, OR
| can you say bandwidth caps? this is to say nothing of possible bandwidth caps....someone buys your "service" and takes your bandwidth...poP! you lose your connection and you didn't even do anything...oops. This idea just sounds bad. Of course, I would do it if I was in the house next to them...just get a strong antenna, pay less for broadband and hope their kids arn't addicted to downloading tons of stuff...cheap bandwidth? -- When someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles to frown about it but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and punch the crap out of them. | |
|  |   justin Australian join:1999-05-28 Brooklyn, NY | Re: can you say bandwidth caps? If you setup a linux router you can parcel out bandwidth pretty easily. | |
|  |  |   Camelot One Premium,MVM join:2001-11-21 Sarasota, FL clubs:
| Re: can you say bandwidth caps? I have a problem called Bandwidth monitor that can do something similar. Lets me control bandwidth based on a wide variety of things, uncluding limiting bandwidth per port, per IP, per destination, etc. Send and receive options on everything too. -- AMD XP2500+ @2388mhz/ Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC3500/ WD 120Gb on serial/ Gainward GF4 4600/ Enermax 465P-VE/Custom water cooler | |
|   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| There is room for this model There is room for this business model and the technology would provide for user accounting because they are exchanging money. All you need are the sales records to see who was on the system.
I don't think there is anything technically wrong with the idea. From a business perspective, the company is offering a service. For 15 percent of the take, they will manage your hotspot remotely. Simple enough and in many venues this will be as welcome as Boingo, for example.
The article provided by Linspot is well considered. -- Advanced security:»project.honeynet.org/papers/sebek.pdf | |
|  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: There is room for this model It works (maybe) if people sign up (maybe).
A better idea I think is provided by the folks over at Business 2.0: quote: If Nuyens were smart, he wouldn't make this a revenue-splitting service. He'd just sell software licenses at $19.95 a pop, and leave it up to his customers to figure out how to actually make money.
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|  |  |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| Re: There is room for this model Karl;
I don't know. The folks over at Business 2.0 are looking at it as if it was just people in suburbia making their AP's available.
I don't see this as being that at all. Suppose for example that I am an ISP and I want to put up a bunch of WIPOPs all over downtown USA but I don't want to admin them. I just want the revenue stream earned by selling the bandwidth and doing the physical maintenance on the devices.
So I go to restaurants, shopping malls, parking garages, laundry mats etc... and I make them a sweet deal. "I'll deliver a DSL/frame/ISDN/MPPP between thee and me. I'll provide the backhaul to the Internet. You can use it at no charge. For that I get space on a shelf and I get to stick this war chalking symbol in the window..."
If that ISP picks his locations carefully, he will do just fine reselling bandwidth and the only time anyone is going to call him is when the AP dies, someone else is managing the money @ fifteen percent. That covers the secure web hosting that would be required.
I think the model could work. -- »www.newsforge.com/trends/04/03/1···16.shtml | |
|   furlonium Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08 Bethlehem, PA
| ISPs could deal with the TOS ..maybe by stipulating in their EUA that the user is responsible for any actions that people take while on their network....this is if they are re-selling. I don't see why ISP's wouldn't like the idea, they can get some extra cash (albeit small) for nothing, really.
Maybe it's really a bigger legal issue at hand than I perceive it to be... | |
|  |   Pv8man666
@in.us
| Heh
Hell, about 4 months ago i was planning to start my own local ISP...i found an access point that goes up to a 8 mile radius...i currently have a local cable ISP around Chicago,IL and Hammond,IN....the downstream is 4000 kbits and upstream is 540 kbits...i was thinking about getting T1 to share it ...and charge people around 20-40 bucks a month...the peoples bills would go to pay for the T1 which is around 300-500 a month!!!...i have already found about 8 people that would definatly go for it...heck, they should pay about 40 bucks...because basically they are paying 40 bucks for T1 access!!!..as to where i can get the license to become my own ISP..i dont know. But to prevent freeloaders from getting on...each person w ill have theyer own user name and password that they would get to log on...the customer would get this 30 dollar USB Wi-Fi adapter to access it.....any ideas or anything that i should consider please reply or e-mail me : Pv8man@hotmail.com | |
|  |  |   andrewe77 Gonads And Strife
join:2000-09-17 Blue Springs, MO clubs: | Re: Heh Why don't you just stick to making it to English class on time? You obviously don't have a clue. | |
|  |  |  |   Pv8man666
@wideopenwest.com | Re: Heh its called a typo... i was in a hurry
any suggestions on what im trying to do ( read earlier post "heh" | |
|   Rhobite Premium join:2002-02-24 Cambridge, MA clubs:
| Gut feeling: Won't work Based on the fluffy copy and the buzzwords (C2C), as well as the dubious business model, I predict Linspot will fail. As the blurb mentions, most of their 'customer base' isn't exactly in high demand spots. If your access point is in an airport or a coffee bar then by all means make some money, but I don't anticipate many people parking in my driveway and buying Internet access from me. Plus it's against most ISPs TOS. Last, more and more places are offering free wireless. I don't think a startup will do very well in this market when so many places already offer it free. -- Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
|  |   DaDogs Semper Vigilantis Premium join:2004-02-28 Deltaville, VA
| Re: Gut feeling: Won't work said by Rhobite : Based on the fluffy copy and the buzzwords (C2C), as well as the dubious business model, I predict Linspot will fail. As the blurb mentions, most of their 'customer base' isn't exactly in high demand spots. If your access point is in an airport or a coffee bar then by all means make some money, but I don't anticipate many people parking in my driveway and buying Internet access from me. Plus it's against most ISPs TOS. Last, more and more places are offering free wireless. I don't think a startup will do very well in this market when so many places already offer it free.
You're probably right... This company may fail. It really depends upon whether they understand how to exploit what they have built.
One thing is certain, there are a whole lot of people jumping into the "pay for play" hot-spot market, and there are a lot of wireless service providers using a model identical this one and remaining in business.
It really depends upon whether they figure out how to exploite the service.
A couple of years ago, when I was still new to delivering broadband services over wireless, I happened upon: »www.locustworld.com and while I was an ardent fan of mesh networks, I failed to understand what the developer was trying to say. His whole "organic network" terminology threw me off. So I went to IPS-Planet and told the world he had a stupid idea. Clearly I was wrong.
Well, I have about two dozen wireless customers in three mesh networks now, by no means all of our broadband, just the wireless ones. I've gone back and re-thought Jon's model and I understand what he was saying two years ago. He was just a little bit ahead of me, that's all.
Perhaps this developer is just a little bit ahead of you.  -- »www.newsforge.com/trends/04/03/1···16.shtml | |
|   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| T class else no for people with T or O based lines this could work but remember your downloads will be only as fast as the servers upload. that would be uuuuuuuuugly on american broadband(Including OOL because OOL spots would be capped within a day) -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|   software
@202.94.x.x
| pure Wi-Fi Hotspot management software
If you don't like to be "taxed" when setting up a Wi-Fi Hotspot, use a pure Hotspot management software product instead. Try FirstSpot ( »patronsoft.com/firstspot ) for Windows, or Nocat ( »nocat.net ) for Linux. | |
|  shapiro44
join:2004-03-01 Highland, NY
| reselling your bandwidth See my posting: »[TWC] [TWC] wants wants to charge me $25,000 for RR »[TWC] [TWC] wants wants to charge me $25,000 for RR
I desparate for someone to buy one of these »www.linksys.com/splash/hotspotin···lash.asp and share their bandwith with me and charge me $25 a month. I would buy such a unit, but I have no place to plug it in to. 2 cable companies are nearby, yet these 20 houses are still on dialup. These 20 houses are between 2 towns and 2 cable companies. Post something to my story above, keep my link alive. | |
|  |   Cop Premium join:2001-09-05 Auburn, AL | Re: reselling your bandwidth How much would it cost to get something to send the signal out far? Im talking maybe 2-4 miles in a wooded area. Im at the top of the top of a decent hill and have been interested in starting my own wifi bizz. | |
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