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Bit Torrent users seeing more DMCA letters
(old news - 11:01AM Thursday Apr 08 2004)
tags: legal · Fileswapping · Op/Ed
Many broadband users naively assumed that if they stopped using Kazaa and switched to Bit Torrent they'd be out of range of what they view as the great unblinking eye of Sauron - the RIAA. That simply hasn't been the case, as many peer-to-peer users slowly realize that while Bit Torrent is a revolutionary file trading client, it offers no better privacy than more traditional p2p distribution methods.

Anyone with a Bit Torrent client can clearly see the IP address of every other user connected to the same tracker. Whether coming via Cox or Comcast, the DMCA letters are all generally the same. Both recent examples target torrent film and television episode downloaders, and both inform users they won't suffer any punishment if they simply delete the offending material.

"We are writing on behalf of Cox Communications to advise you that we have received a notification that you are using your Cox High Speed Internet service to post or transmit material that infringes the copyrights of a complainant's members," the letter politely informs one Cox user.

"Cox will suspend your account and disable your connection to the Internet within 24 hours of your receipt of this email if the offending material is not removed," the letter adds. So far we're not seeing many providers taking this step no matter what the recipient does.

The MPAA is being more polite than the RIAA (no lawsuits) for the time being, because film downloads have yet to become as popular as music trading. Films generally range from 500 megabytes to several gigabytes; caps and slower speeds acting as a deterrent for now. But as the film industry begins to feel the tugging at their purse-strings, you can expect these letters to become far less cuddly.

"Protecting" users from the film and music industry is slowly becoming as big of an industry as those industries themselves. The promise of anonymity is becoming a big selling point for companies promising everything from anonymizing software and "stealth" p2p clients to anonymous DSL. The majority of traders have simply fled to IRC.

Related:
  1. ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan
  2. Kicking People Off The Internet Is Not A Business Model
  3. Jamie Thomas Guilty -- A Song's Worth $80,000
  4. Barry Manilow Highlights 'Three Strikes' Law Stupidity
  5. British Cops, Spies Oppose 'Three Strikes'
  6. Will 'Three Strikes' Come To The United States?
  7. Wi-Fi Network Shuttered By MPAA Re-Opens
  8. Pirate Bay Tracker Offline for Good
Forums » You Are Not Anonymous
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Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA

only a matter of time

yep

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
·Site5.com


1 edit

Re: only a matter of time

said by Jehu See Profile:
yep

You got that right.

Unless you are living in a cave, everyone should know by now these P2P services are NOT anonymous. They offer no protection. Therefore, if you trade copyrighted works, you run the risk of being caught.

It is a very simple decision, either share and roll the dice or clean everything out of your shared folder.

*EDIT* The wording has been changed so I am changing my statement on apparent bias.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal
Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
San Francisco, CA
·Comcast

Re: only a matter of time

I don't see what bias you mean, but-

There are some services that offer more anonminity than others, and there are ways to increase your privacy, if you are smart. Nothing the feds couldn't back track if they wanted to (unless you really went crazy), but enough to keep the RIAA off of your back.
--
-Ryan
The more you know the more you know how little you know,you know?

Morac

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast

Re: only a matter of time

But even the anonymous services do very little to hide your information. The only way they could provide any chance of anonymity is if everyone connected through a proxy server in which case all the RIAA has to do is shut down that server (serving a subpeona first to get the list of ip addresses who have connected to that server for future lawsuits).
--
"snmp: the standard e-mail protocol on the Internet" - LinkSys user manual (page 17)
tdkyo

join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY

Re: only a matter of time

Or get into a smaller private network.

wardriverintx

@ezdigitalnetwork.net

from:
bbuck2002 See Profile

Re: only a matter of time

or just get a laptop a wireless card and a big antenna, and go for a drive...

yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH

I'm puzzled as to why you're taking offense to the obviously op-ed comment about Sauron when you and the author appear to be on the same side of the argument...

Anyway, P2P as a technology could be very promising. A lot of innovative ideas in computing today came about though the underground and hacker scenes. No, I'm not afraid that the RIAA or the MPAA will single-handedly ruin this great technology. We all know from past experiences that progress is made in even the most inhospitable environments. Unfortunately, P2P networks will be used for illegal activities long after the RIAA and MPAA and all the other players in this alphabet soup lose interest. If there's one other thing we have learned in our brief computing history is that everything has a legitimate and illegitimate use, and both will be employed.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
·Site5.com

Re: only a matter of time

said by yock See Profile:
I'm puzzled as to why you're taking offense to the obviously op-ed comment about Sauron when you and the author appear to be on the same side of the argument...

The wording was changed so I no longer have a problem with it. When I posted, it was different. I edited my post.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal

SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs:

Brought to you by not-Anon

Dag, I thought that was one of the things that torrents were offering was more privacy. I know a lot of people...
--
Updated My Journal
TP&C

Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA

Re: Brought to you by not-Anon

naw, torrents were offering easy access and download, but forced upload and wide open IP address broadcasting. I'm surprised it avoided crackdown as long as it did.
--
[BBR] Jehu || SOCOM Oldies

Mentiroso

join:2003-10-15
Albany, GA
I use it every now and then but I can never find a good download for this crap. The stuff I usually find is way too slow. Like 30 hours for only 1.6gb. I would rather use IRC (XDCC). Maybe I am just not finding good BT downloads. Who knows.
Recluse

join:2001-10-30
Randolph, NJ

I got one from CableVision (OOL)

Yep I got one of these. I am currently 'investigating'

What really burns me up is I got two letters..simultaneously. The second not only alluded to a file I never ever downloaded, it was on a system I never ever use (edonkey) and neither the MAC address nor the IP address corresponded to mine. Obviously a mixup of their mail merge software, but it really scared me that I got mistakenly tagged with a possible violation, (and potentially OTHERS) and should push come to shove with the copyright holder receiving the info from the ISP, the burden would be on me to correct the record.

I sent a letter to them explaining this. It should be simple to sort out given the MAC/IP mismatches, but who knows.....

Recluse

jdmurray
Premium
join:2001-03-02
Huntington Beach, CA
clubs:
·DSL EXTREME

Re: I got one from CableVision (OOL)

...it was on a system I never ever use (edonkey)...
Many P2P clients support multiple P2P protocols allowing them to download from different file sharing networks. File list servers make it possible to download and/or share files from the eDonkey network without realizing that you are doing so.

jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·RoadRunner Cable

said by Recluse See Profile:
and neither the MAC address nor the IP address corresponded to mine.
Are you running your own wireless net?
Recluse

join:2001-10-30
Randolph, NJ

Re: I got one from CableVision (OOL)

Nope. All hardwired. No MAC spoofing. On OOL, the MAC address of the MODEM is tracked, not any PC on the network.

Since I also do quite a bit of gaming, I just about always know my PUBLIC IP address. It actually doesn't change that frequently either, so I KNOW that I NEVER was assigned the IP in question.

THAT PARTICULAR FILE WAS NEVER DL FROM MY MODEM!

Recluse
Disco Nic

join:2003-07-29
Northridge, CA

Forget running when you can hide

There was an app that acted like a p2p firewall but only for well known RIAA and major media IPs. I saw it in the forums of suprnova.org but I couldn't find the d/l for it (a while back.) But it wouldn't allow them to connect to you and would tell you who it blocked access from. Any one else seen this?

stet
Volitar Prime

join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI

Re: Forget running when you can hide

What good is this list/app of known IPs when the RIAA and MPAA can also download it and use IPs that aren't on it? Every time the list/app is updated all they have to do is download the updates and switch to different IPs.
--
Where can I run? How can I hide the Silmarils? Gems of treelight, their life belongs to me. Oh it's sweet how the darkness is floating around.
jsouth
Jsouth

join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS

If you are thinking of PeerGaurdian for get it. It doesn't help. First of all it allows them to connect to you before it closes the connection. Second a lot of it's ranges are wrong. Third what is to stop them from using a home ip address from connecting to you and having an ip address completely unknown to the PG database?

Oh yeah. Look out for the PG trolls.

steelgaze
Premium
join:2002-02-01
San Francisco, CA
clubs:

Re: Forget running when you can hide

My thoughts exactly.. PeerGuardian is nothing but a placebo.. especially on BT because everyone's IP is out in the open.
Andromeda451

join:2004-04-08
Queen Creek, AZ
Do you mean Peerguardian at www.methlabs.org?
jsouth
Jsouth

join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS

Re: Forget running when you can hide

Yep.

CtrlAltDel
WORSE. THAN. CARTER.
Arbitrary Text
join:2001-12-30
Backyard
·1and1
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Did Torrent Users

really think they were anonymous? When I checked it out it looked like you were forced to share while downloading. I thought it gave less privacy than Kazaa, WinMX or Emule.

Torrent users should have seen other people's IP addys while downloading! Isn't that a wake-up call?
--
See the real John Kerry.
Freezone

join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI

Why is it legal....

for the RIAA to hack P2P networks?
jekler

join:2000-11-23
Cincinnati, OH
clubs:

Re: Why is it legal....

If by hack you mean 'connect like any other user on the network' why would that be illegal?

Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA

said by Freezone See Profile:
for the RIAA to hack P2P networks?

from above:

"Anyone with a Bit Torrent client can clearly see the IP address of every other user connected to the same tracker."

no hacking required.
--
[BBR] Jehu || SOCOM Oldies

shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

A buddy of mine who uses Bit Torrent a lot actually got an e-mail from Universal Studios telling him to stop. I'm not kidding.

I have a sneaky suspiscion that some of these Bit Torrent sites are actually run by MPAA members so they can track heavy users.
--
"3 cheers for Ottawa,they think they have a shottawa,but they must be smoking pottawa..."

Brianv5
Low Level Functionary
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Keyser, WV

Re: Why is it legal....

Kinda like the conspiracy theory that AV companies make the viruses?
--
More power never hurt anything.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

said by shaner See Profile:
I have a sneaky suspiscion that some of these Bit Torrent sites are actually run by MPAA members so they can track heavy users.
I doubt it unless they are putting phony copies of movies online. (Something along the lines of what Madonna did, first few seconds is the movie and then it's just the director cursing you out for the rest of the film. )
--
-Jason Levine
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
http://www.urateit.com/
Desdinova

join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD

Re: Why is it legal....

According to "Pirates of the Internet" on 60 Minutes, the studios ARE putting spoofed movie files online and have been doing so for a while. They interviewed the owner of the private company that does this for them and which also spends its time surfing p2p usage looking for recent film releases available as downloads.

Morac

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast

Bit Torrent is a bit safer

While you are not annoymous while using BiT Torrent, the moment you close the download window you are no longer sharing the file. Fast Track, E-donkey and Gnutella clients on the other hand will, by default, continue to share the file even after you have finished downloading it and closed the download window.

Currently the letters from the MIAA are informing you to delete the file in question. Comcast/Cox/whoever can't actually tell if you have deleted the file or not, they can only tell if you are no longer sharing the file. So while you'll still get letters by using BT, you can effectively ignore them as you will no longer be sharing the file by the time you get them.

Of course this offers no such protection against the RIAA, who will sue you right off the bat. It will also not protect you against the MIAA when they switch to that tactic as well (which will happen eventually).

So the bottom line is that unless you really know what you are doing you will get caught eventually. It's kind of like speeding except with a much larger fine.
--
"snmp: the standard e-mail protocol on the Internet" - LinkSys user manual (page 17)

BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA

Re: Bit Torrent is a bit safer

RIAA and several other companies feel that consumers don't deserve fair use, For me, P2P has been great. I abuse my CDs pretty badly, so it's nice when I get a horkin scratch, I can download whatever song has been compromised, and burn a new CD. As I understand it, I am entitled to the content of the CD when I purchase it, not the media itself. Otherwise, every time I scratch my CD, I would call up Sony and ask them for a new one...

Morac

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast

Re: Bit Torrent is a bit safer

The "fair use" law basically states you can back up media you purchase for your own use. This means that if you buy a CD, you can make a backup copy which only you can play.

Technically it does not allow you to download copies of songs you have CDs of though that is kind of a gray area. The person sharing the file is definately not protected by the "fair use" law.

Why not just make backup copies of your CDs when you buy them and store the originals in a safe place? That way if you scratch the copy you can just make a new backup copy from the original.
--
"snmp: the standard e-mail protocol on the Internet" - LinkSys user manual (page 17)

Bittorrentsux

@sonic.net

It can't be safer! With Kazaa you can totally disable uploading, making you prone to MIAA! With bittorrent there isn't a client that has the option to disable upload, is there? :/

Why does anyone use Bittorrent anyways? It's too much of a hassle and it sucks for people under firewalls. I am trying suprnova, which I believe is the largest torrent site so far, and am finding their organization of movies a mess and the number of selections puny compared to other p2p networks. I really hate it because in a firewalled environment you would have to open up listening ports according the number of torrrents you download simultaneously in order to get maximum speed. Sucks for us wardrivers.

See 6 replies to this post

RIAASucks

@comcast.n

What if...

This may be a naive and stupid question, but I was unable to answer it myself. What's to stop somebody from simply saying they deleted the offending file(s) while they really didn't? The only way the RIAA would know if you didn't is if they were able to view all the files on your computer... which obviously wouldn't be possible unless the RIAA has begun using shadier tactics than before.

Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA

Re: What if...

said by RIAASucks:
What's to stop somebody from simply saying they deleted the offending file(s) while they really didn't?

I think that's just an aside for the notice... They're pointing out an illegal file, so they throw in that to be a good boy you ought to delete it. The notice is not about whether or not you delete the file, it's about whether or not you get busted downloading again.
--
[BBR] Jehu || SOCOM Oldies
Freegoo

join:2002-12-11
Larrabee, IA

Not suprising

Was always funny hearing people brag they used Bit Torrent when others were busted on kazaa, eMule, etc thinking they were immune. IRC users are the next to get the wakeup call.
Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

To Karl Bode.

The first rule of fightclub is

DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHTCLUB

The second rule of fightclub is

DO NOT FUCKING TALK ABOUT FIGHTCLUB

The third rule of fightclub is

FOR THE FUCKING LOVE OF GOD, DO NOT FUCKING TALK ABOUT FIGHTCLUB!

If you're too dense to get the picture I'll spell it out for you, stop talking about where people should go for file sharing (in this case, IRC) you'll only end up shitting on your own seat.

See 10 replies to this post

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

Get some fast proxies NOW, link included.

Yeap, yeap, that is all free: »www.atomintersoft.com/products/a···list/80/
--
Who drank has died, who drinks will die. Is he immortal who is sober?

StingerMoD

join:2002-10-16
Calgary, AB

Problem with the RIAA or MPAA then do this

Move to Canada where for the time being it is free to download music. We pay extra for CDs and mp3 players but that has made it legal to download music. I assume movies and the MPAA would fit into that but hey. CRIAA will try to get rid of that as soon as possible.
--
My Website - »homepage.mac.com/cparna/ - PowerBook G4 15" SuperDrive, 1 Gig of Ram, 80 Gig HD

Annonn

@rr.com

Re: Problem with the RIAA or MPAA then do this

What you going to dl if there is nobody uploading?

BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA

USA
Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

In the USA I can own my firearms and go shooting (albeit primarily in designated areas). You are free to own or not to own any firearms. That is your choice. I CHOOSE to own them. I choose to fight and not let anyone take them away from me. Thanks to servicemen and women, I have the freedom to make that choice.
salahx

join:2001-12-03
Saint Louis, MO

Need anonymity ?

There was a brief discussion in the Filesharing forum about anonymous networks and brief explanation of how they work: »new kinds of anonymous p2p software ...

Some of them include:

Freenet and Frost
The Invisible IRC Project and The Invisible Internet (no URL available at request of author - not ready for general use yet)
MUTE
GNUnet

I myself am a Freenet user.

steelgaze
Premium
join:2002-02-01
San Francisco, CA
clubs:

Finally

About time this was going to happen.. I foresaw this when I first saw BT come out. Come now, who didn't see all the IP's you were connected, and figure that all you need to do is to start the torrent and eventually, you'll see everyone downloading/uploading.

JE
Can I Taste It? Mmmm
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Brooklyn, NY

HaHa

GUESS WHAT....

When I use BT, most of the IP's I see come from COMCAST....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
DSLEXTREME
VERIZON
Those 3 RULE BT!
--
BLAZIN' FAST OOL @: 9400/971Can Your ISP Go This FAST? VRoOoOoOoOm!-- I Have: AVG 7.0 | ZA 4.5.538.001 | ICQ: 16705298 |AIM: EdGei365i --
batmanst

join:2003-12-23
Beverly Hills, CA

Re: HaHa

said by JE See Profile:
GUESS WHAT....

When I use BT, most of the IP's I see come from COMCAST....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
DSLEXTREME
VERIZON
Those 3 RULE BT!

I see nothing funny about that

TheSaint

join:2002-01-25
Hanover Park, IL
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·Comcast

Agreed, in parts. We must promote sites that have new music/videos/content/news that aren't the same recycled garbage found on the likes of AOL, MSN, CNN and the other major portal sites. Try using an different email than your hotmail account, turn off the damn t.v. and read a book or post your own news on your own site.

The average Joe needs to learn to grow up in terms of branching out from the crap that is produced by major companies that only enforce and promote censorship, laughable lawsuits against filesharers (instead of providing a cheap, legal download service > $.50 song, not $1.00 a pop, cd's are approx. $1 a song, where's the advantage of using a legal d/l service?).

If you must listen to the music that the RIAA puts out, try getting the cd's used on half.com or ebay. Quit putting money in the coffers of the greedy scam arists RIAA and start speaking out with the most powerful tool that the average Joe has:

The Almighty, Good Ol' Fashion American Greenback!

[/soapbox off]
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. --- Edmund Burke
Kill your TV, then Internet Explorer: »www.mozilla.org

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: HaHa

Try more than a $1 per song for the legal download services.
The riaa is talking of raising prices on files downloaded
from there, making it cheaper to buy the CD in many cases.
Either that, or they'll shoot themselves in the foot again
(they're running out of feet to shoot) by driving the users
of the legal services back to p2p.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.

SirXILE
The SolWar 2-1
Premium
join:2001-02-24
Brooklyn, NY

Hm

Damn IP's that show. It's a give away...
--
There can only be one..."X.I.L.E"

Yowzaaah
Ours Go To Eleven

join:2000-12-14
DamnFlat, OH
clubs:

Can you Socksify BT?

It would seem to me that if you could socksify the BT client, then using an anon socks5 proxy would sufficiently cover your tracks to prevent IP logging.

If it works I'd think there would be plenty of folks happy to start a subscription SOCKS server farm in China to take the $5 per month that the RIAA/MPAA refuses to accept as a general compulsory license fee.

Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23


1 edit

Re: Can you Socksify BT?

said by Yowzaaah See Profile:
I'd think there would be plenty of folks happy to start a subscription SOCKS server farm . . .

SOCKS farm?? LOL, I like the sound of that. Does such a thing even exist now?

It's usually best to find your own SOCKS proxies in any case.
--
"tick...tick...tick..."
»www.jtf.org/

Yowzaaah
Ours Go To Eleven

join:2000-12-14
DamnFlat, OH
clubs:

Is it really copyright infringement?

It would take a court case to argue it, but if I'm not mistaken, doesn't BT push and pull non-contiguous bits and pieces from individuals? In the end "I" actually transferred nothing even identifiable as the work in question but a few snippets.

Just some random musings.
jimboe

join:2000-08-14
New York
·Optimum Online

Re: Is it really copyright infringement?

said by Yowzaaah See Profile:
It would take a court case to argue it, but if I'm not mistaken, doesn't BT push and pull non-contiguous bits and pieces from individuals? In the end "I" actually transferred nothing even identifiable as the work in question but a few snippets.

Just some random musings.

I've always speculated precisely the same.
If you haven't xmitted only but a few small non-contiguous bytes of a "work", then how could it be infringement.

Likewise under the same premise, I don't see how anyone could prove you actually possess or are offering the entire work, since they would only get a few pieces (which by themselves as a group are meaningless) from you, and the rest would come from other users in the same fashion.

Unless they could actually rebuild an entire work solely from one user, I just can't see it.

I think it's similar to the way most rap music productions loop a short sample from a previously existing work to create their base "melody".

Sure, often they pay royalties to the creator, but that is ONLY if they use more than (if memory serves me) 2 contiguous bars of the original work, and then loop that.

Less than 2 bars looped, no royalties need be paid at all.

I believe one day, this type of argument will be held up in court regarding this type of p2p.

I felt this was the case way back when eDonkey 1st hit the scene, since it worked on the "piece from here", "piece from there" principle.

Albo

join:2002-09-06
Brooklyn, NY

Here's an Idea

How about making it Illegal to collect data ,Ip adress or any other info on the filesharing porgram from users ,all they have to do is put in on UELA agreement and it's done

Snide

@ph.ee

Re: Here's an Idea

If you want to stay out of the RIAA's view then use proxy servers.

Snide

@adelphia.net

Re: Here's an Idea

notice the host names =P

Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
·Verizon FIOS

"The majority of traders have simply fled to IRC"

"The majority of traders have simply fled to IRC."

This is completely false. Like someone using Kazaa or Bit Torrent would be able to simply flee to IRC. IRC takes a more "advanced" user than the 99% of people who use BT or Kazaa type clients.
--
F.A.M.I.L.Y. -- Friends And Music I Love You

jeetircnoob

@ezdigitalnetwork.net

Re: "The majority of traders have simply fled to IRC"

how do i get the tic toe board thing after the /join 3channel name

i keep getting 3's i need the tictac toe board
....

think dsl provider would awnser that?
lbolson

join:2004-02-24
South Lake Tahoe, CA

I keep waiting for someone to say "Usenet".

I have Charter Pipeline Internet. They contract their nntp from SuperNews, so we have "premium" feed for free.

Say I've got a copy of NewsReactor installed. I also happen to have the url for Newzbin. I can type in the names of movies or anything there, and be given the newsgroup where some neferious souls have uploaded the parts. New movies are usually available there before they make the move from IRC onto the mainstream P2Ps. And it isn't like new releases are only posted in newsgroups with helpful names, either.

I suppose they could get an order to read logs, but I think they'd have a hard time in general, as ISPs and nntp providers don't actually want to have their custommers jailed, and will only produce things they are specifically ordered to produce, not spread their legs.
Just thought I'd mention this. People going on about p2p and irc, when one the original distibution nets is still going strong.

Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: "The majority of traders have simply fled to I

I also have Supernews through my ISP.

My point though is that the authors statement that people will up and flee to IRC in droves is completely false. The same goes for USENET.
--
F.A.M.I.L.Y. -- Friends And Music I Love You
Forums » You Are Not Anonymouspage: 1 · 2


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