 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
2 edits | We are getting there All you have to do to see this is download a file on a P2P, or Bit torrent. In the old Napster days I though I was in hog heaven with a 10mbps download, I now see transfers of upwards of 200mbps, and I think nothing of grabbing a 2 gig file this would have been a pipe dream in the old days.
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Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you.
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|  | praetoralpha
join:2005-08-06
Mount Vernon, OH
| Re: We are getting there You can download as much as you (and I) please, but for most Americans, they dont really care how many gigabytes they can download in an hour, or how many days of music that can be downloaded in one hour. They just want to check their email, provided they even have email.
If I didnt have a job, my mom (and I) would still be on dialup. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: We are getting there Many people can't justify the price, but wouldn't mind broadband one bit. | |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
| Re: We are getting there Broadband, if considered a utility (as many here think), is very reasonable when compared to telephone, gas, electric, water & sewer, etc. Price is no longer a reason, for most people, not to get a broadband internet connection. "Availability" and "need" are the prime factors.
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huh? | AIM | Utopia does not exist. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
| Re: We are getting there When we're talking about the nation's poorer subscribers, yes, price is the prime factor. Broadband is still around double the cost of dialup, so many ask, "Why do we need to spend more for something we already have?" if they have it at all.
If it were considered a utility, the whole game would change. But, currently, it is not. | |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
1 edit | Re: We are getting there [rant on]
Are these the same "poorer subscribers" that are driving around Escalades and buying their food with food stamps? Collecting wages "under the table" and collecting welfare? Having more children than they can support? Please!
[rant off] | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: We are getting there No.
You sure have some funny ideas of what "poor" means, and I'm sure some people abuse a system that means well, but I was talking about the honest folks that have inexpensive dial-up, as that is all their budget can possibly allow. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| While that was not directed to me I understand how you feel on this one.
There shall be abusers to the system in any level. I know this for a fact because we see it every day, instead of cutting off welfare and other services I believe the services provide should be strict for the intended purposes.
One example is instead of giving out checks which people can cash into there accounts let the government give out debit cards but they also must use a certain amount on food and clothing, utility bills and with a small amount for misc items.
There are other ways to solve this instead of just cutting it off like that idiotic politician on CNN said. The system must be more strict and give out the money to the people who really need it.
Also some people have more than just one child some could have 2,3 even 4 or more there first time. It's not something the parents probably would not of known until it was too late.
So that last sentence was ignorant at best. | |
| | | | | | | | NDPTAL85
join:2002-01-23
Boston, MA
| Re: We are getting there The last sentence wasn't ignorant. Twins are rare, triplets rarer and quadruplets are rarer still and the original poster surely wasn't talking about these cases. He was talking about people who have 4 or 5 kids, all years apart from each other when they're poor and can't afford to take care of ONE kid. In addition to that, even the poor get sonograms and would know well before the birth of those kids if they were carrying multiples or not and at that point have the option of selectively aborting.
So they have many options, they're just too stupid to use them. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: We are getting there "even the poor get sonograms"
If they have health care sure, if not they need to pay $300 for one. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY | Re: We are getting there I guess it depends on where you live, cheapest dialup is about $20.00 where I live.
Broadband is somewhere in the $30.00 range with a package deal | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| "Broadband, if considered a utility"
It's considered a utility for a business, not for a customer.
"Price is no longer a reason, for most people, not to get a broadband internet connection. "Availability" and "need" are the prime factors."
No, just stop there broadband's average price is around 30-50 dollars.
Dialup average is around 10-19 dollars.
To someone who lives off a low income everything they have is looked upon as highly valuable, especially when it comes to money so while it does not look like much a difference to someone who has a normal or high income, for someone with low income it really does.
Price is still one of the main factors, availability is another. Need is not a prime factor because when I had dialup I learned to be patient, please don't confuse need from want.
Broadband is only needed to those who use applications that require such speeds. It's a luxury to the user like a car instead of driving a Meetro he/she wants a Dodge Viper. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: We are getting there said by Michieru2  :"Broadband, if considered a utility" It's considered a utility for a business, not for a customer. "Price is no longer a reason, for most people, not to get a broadband internet connection. "Availability" and "need" are the prime factors." No, just stop there broadband's average price is around 30-50 dollars. Dialup average is around 10-19 dollars. To someone who lives off a low income everything they have is looked upon as highly valuable, especially when it comes to money so while it does not look like much a difference to someone who has a normal or high income, for someone with low income it really does. Price is still one of the main factors, availability is another. Need is not a prime factor because when I had dialup I learned to be patient, please don't confuse need from want. Broadband is only needed to those who use applications that require such speeds. It's a luxury to the user like a car instead of driving a Meetro he/she wants a Dodge Viper. It's sheer stupidity and narrow mindedness to deny the fact that internet IS a utility.
It serves nothing but helps the greedy cable cos to maintain the current status quo, their high prices yet ridiculously slow upload speeds, keeping users miserably clueless, resulting falling competitiveness.
This is exactly the kind of mindset that resulted our shitty broadband speeds, high prices, laughable cable upload speeds etc etc, all together our pathetic ~16th place in the world when it comes to broadband. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: We are getting there Then please explain in detail on how is Broadband in fact a utility. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: We are getting there said by Michieru2 :Then please explain in detail on how is Broadband in fact a utility. ? Explain how it isn't... | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
1 edit | Re: We are getting there Maybe I misunderstood your post?
EDIT: "It's sheer stupidity and narrow mindedness to deny the fact that internet IS a utility."
I take that as your saying im narrow minded and denying the fact that internet IS a utility, so your stating that in fact the internet itself is a utility.
If that's not what you mean't please elaborate. | |
| | | | | | | | | NDPTAL85
join:2002-01-23
Boston, MA
| Broadband never was a utility. A utility is something you need to remain alive. Water, heat, gas, electricity all run appliances that keep us warm, keep our food from spoiling, allow us to cook our food, and allow us to have indoor plumbing to remove human wastes from our home and reduce the incidence of disease.
Now its up to you to explain just exactly someone would die from lack of internet access? | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | We are not falling behind, we are catching up. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: We are getting there We honestly shouldn't be "catching up." | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: We are getting there We are better off catching up than just sitting like a deadstick. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Transmaster :All you have to do to see this is download a file on a P2P, or Bit torrent. In the old Napster days I though I was in hog heaven with a 10mbps download, I now see transfers of upwards of 200mbps, and I think nothing of grabbing a 2 gig file this would have been a pipe dream in the old days. We sure are getting there. Many think we are falling behind. But it is more that many people aren't really interested in broadband because they have no need for it. Many of those on dial-up are only on that because their relatives browbeat them into getting an email address. As the older generation dies off and the younger generation get jobs and homes, broadband will continue to expand at a natural rate. BS. The problem is that your bosses at the cable company enjoy monopolies thus the high prices many cannot justify for broadband. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: We are getting there lmfao kamm just loves to bite your head off  | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: We are getting there That lying one, sure. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Ever notice how when the introductory rates are low (and slightly misleading), people sign up for broadband in droves (or, at least in numbers significantly higher than usual)?
Definately a liar. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | said by kamm :The problem is that your bosses at the cable company enjoy monopolies thus the high prices many cannot justify for broadband. All of the bitching and moaning in the world isn't going to change things. I have my broadband connection, and I could care less if Joe Hoodus in Screw Horses, Wyoming doesn't. I am not going to increase my stress levels over an issue I can do absolutely nothing about.
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Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you.
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Many slug it with dial up because................ They see no need for high speed.
The cost of a monthly ISP and another phone line would justify broadband. But for someone who just wants to hit email, very light surfing, and maybe a simple chat, then dial up is cheap enough for them.
You can't force someone to have it.
On the other hand, what about those areas either under-served or not served?
Also, did this survey take into account that some may call their work connection a personal connection too? | |
| | older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY
| Re: Many slug it with dial up because................ "Also, did this survey take into account that some may call their work connection a personal connection too?"
In a effort to appear with it. I think, that is where a good percent of the numbers came from.
My neighbor would tell you he has broadband in a effort to appear hip.
He pushes start on a touch screen at work, the office has broadband, so his terminal must have it to.
The study did not seem to give a indication on what if any quality control questions were asked.
To see if the answer given, was what the researcher intended to ask. | |
| 
sirwoogie
Blah
Premium
join:2002-01-02
Carleton, MI
·AT&T Midwest
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Bad news for the unlucky Broadband Black Hole User This simply makes it all the more convincing that those of us in Broadband black holes will not get service for the foreseeable future. More specifically, the people on the edge of broadband deployment have it the worse. Take my situation:
•500ft from nearest cable tap. Tap is the on the wrong side of a railroad track. Charter is the provider, and would require a node build-out on the other side of the track to offer service. 18 bil in debt makes this unlikely.
•Less than 4000 ft. for fringe DSL. No RT in the area, only 10 houses per block. Not "profitable." ISDN is available, but at $60/mo + ~$30/mo ISP. Great deal.
•WISP is 2 miles behind a large hill. They're so mom-and-pop they don't expect to expand EVER.
•EV-DO not deployed to our towers. Oops... it's on the towers farther down the road and out of range.
•Satellite is not a BB alternative when you can find landline access no more than few miles away.
I'm sure there are many of us stuck in this situation, and really have no hope whatsoever to see anything faster than 128kbps anytime soon. | |
| | amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| Re: Bad news for the unlucky Broadband Black Hole User satellite broadband actually impressed me quite a bit. It does have a slight latency of course, but the speed is fantastic from what I've experiencd... darn near dsl in terms of throughput. that has to really stink being just outside of reach of a good terrestrial broadband...
I just wanted to say that when I helped set up a wireless network for a friend who had to get satellite for vpn access, that it was actually very tolerable, and that I was highly impressed with the speeds, and latency wasn't as bad as some think... definitely not able to game, but if you need throughput, it really is worth it if you can take the initial investment hit in getting it going...
on another note, does a friendly neighbor have any wifi they'd be willing to share across the tracks???
I think price is also an issue for many... $40+ for internet just seems steep... esp. to some who were able to get free access from universities way back in the day.
If profits weren't such a huge motivator, many more like you would have had it years ago... and really, they might've even made some of their money back by now with long term subscribers and having a whole area feeling "included" with everyone else. | |
| | | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
| Re: Bad news for the unlucky Broadband Black Hole User "If profits weren't such a huge motivator, many more like you would have had it years ago... and really, they might've even made some of their money back by now with long term subscribers and having a whole area feeling "included" with everyone else."Verizon finally got DSL service to three villages in the area that I live in. Unfortunately, I live to far out for their service | |
| | | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Verizon finally got DSL service to three villages in the area that I live in. Unfortunately, I live to far out for their service | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
ispjournalist
@internet.com
| common misconceptions about subscriber numbers There isn't a 1:1 ration between subscribers and users. A family will have one subscription but many users.
Comcast reports subscribers; Pew is counting users.
Similarly, a home may have more than one internet subscription (tho few do). | |
| chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | WRONG!!! Is not that they do not want broadband... They just do not want to pay Comcast $40 bucks for it,,, | |
| 
P2PPirate2
join:2005-02-02
New York, NY | still on dialup?? Americans still believe Dial up internet is more safer then broadband (according to AOL advertisement on TV).LOL | |
| PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Alot of potential customers are unserved Is our poor showing in penetration statistics because Americans don't want broadband?
I think alot of the reason for the low numbers, in comparison to other countries, is that alot of potential broadband customers are left unserved. Of those areas where broadband is deployed, the carriers have captured all the "easy" customers. Going after the rest would require signficantly lower pricing, which they don't want to do since it would result in lower total profit.
Look at situations like the Shutesbury-Leverett one. A couple of towns filled with University professionals.; if broadband were to be available there, the adoption rate would be very, very high. If those towns were located in another country, they likely would have broadband, as in most other countries there is either an official commitment to universal access, or an unofficial understanding of the concept (even in countries like the UK, where BB deployment is privately-implemented).
But here in the U.S., they don't have BB simply because Verizon decided not to give it to them. And that's OK with government policy here, where broadband is regarded as a frivelous, luxury item, something akin to having a Starbucks at the street corner. It's not considered to be a driver of economic growth and prosperity, like it is in other countries. | |
| ajschmitt
join:2005-11-30
| Right On I think the analysis is right on. I looked at the same thing and concluded the penetration 'fell behind' once DSL became available in Europe and allowed people to drop their high-cost dial-up.
»www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/04/1···itution/
I have a link to stats on broadband availabilty - turns out 60% of US users of dial up could get broadband if they wanted it. | |
| | cluth
join:2004-01-06
Anchorage, AK
| Re: Right On I'm sure all of the reasons quoted above are valid (some can't get it, municipal franchise agreements inhibit competition and access, and some don't want it), but my personal experience has been the latter. My grandfather lives in a well-populated town near Los Angeles with several DSL and cable providers. Non-introductory DSL pricing averages $25-30 per month. He's currently paying $21 per month for AOL. He's only now starting to realize that the Internet is more than just email and checking a few airfares on websites--he just got an iPod, and I coached him through importing his CD collection onto his computer. Normally, iTunes will download the CD track information from CDDB, but since he wasn't connected to AOL, it didn't. I had to have him connect and then reinsert the CD. I told him that, to me, there isn't much of a difference between my computer and the Internet, whether it's my menubar temperature display, accessing files off of my home computer or university-provided file storage space, or whatever. Now that he's realizing this, he's about ready to jump ship from AOL (good thing, no matter how you look at that...). I think as more people realize the usefulness of the Internet and how it's transforming our society (you can't really, say, do anything "constructive" at MySpace over dialup), broadband usage will rise. | |
| | 
LoneGreyWolf
Premium
join:2002-09-09
Bath, NY
clubs:
| said by ajschmitt :I think the analysis is right on. I looked at the same thing and concluded the penetration 'fell behind' once DSL became available in Europe and allowed people to drop their high-cost dial-up. » www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/04/1···itution/I have a link to stats on broadband availabilty - turns out 60% of US users of dial up could get broadband if they wanted it. What are you considering to be broadband? Is Sat internet included in that? | |
| 
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | And soon... all americans will have broadband, just a matter of time. | |
| | attsbcisgay
join:2003-03-18
Beverly Hills, CA
1 edit | Re: And soon... They are forgetting the rest of the world as well, China, Taiwan, Laos, Cambodia, India, Africa, Japan, green land, south america, central america, the north pole, the south pole, alaska, canada, europe, the middleeast... The entire world in a sense. | |
| Sonofabeech
join:2006-04-25
Joplin, MO
| Internet history from a "typical" European-American BB user I find this thread fascinating on different levels. The differing views of the cause of low BB subscribers (in areas that offer BB) and the perceived view of BB demand in areas with no BB service. Then there are the tangents. First, my Internet history: 80's - Bulletin Boards! Slowwww modem speeds, little content, but fun. Early 90's - AOL (dialup) not really WWW, but access to Usenet, AOL community, email, instant news...later 90's - MSN (dialup, 3 year contract for instant $400 rebate on computer purchase...$21.95/mo.) OK, MSN contract was my most "Brokeback" moment in my life w/Internet. Slow, bad service, usual Microsoft product. 2002 - dialup with several providers, none really stood out, got my email, news, etc. Aggravating for doing research when working in my home office...Ahhh! - The change from WANT to NEED BB. 2003 - DSL w/SBC, 1 year contract @ $24.95/mo. Much faster speeds than dialup, timesaver doing research, time to play with the Internet...found out why publisher of Penthouse was whining about lower subscriptions/sales for his porn mag! Learned you can get a virus you don't want just by looking at porn on the Internet, didn't require a date, dinner and wine to get a virus anymore! 2004 - Fed up w/ SBC's DSL (outages they could not track down, cust. svc. in Costa Rica that no speaka da englese), back to "accelerated" dialup. Faster than before, same basic experiences/benefits. 2005 - SBC seduced me with promises and a rate just above accelerated dialup - $14.95/mo! Took the bait. Just a little better service than before...skipped any chances to get another virus (I'll stick - no pun intended - to the old-fashioned way of rolling the dice ). Still the Costa Rica thing, and still no speaka. 2006 - contract over with SBC's DSL. Took the leap to Cableone's cable BB. $29.95 for first 6 mos., then $39.95/mo. with a bump in speed. Why pay twice as much for cable BB than DSL? So I could drop SBC altogether and go with VoIP! Overall, saving money in total cost over the SBC/DSL combined costs. Am I a "typical" consumer? Yes and no. Dual citizenship, born, lived in Germany, educated in America and Europe. What are the differences between American consumers and European consumers? In a nutshell (at the risk of getting blasted by sociologists in this thread), No. 1) Socialist forms of government additions in Europe make it seem like an entitlement to have Internet at all, and even BB. No.2) Family/social structure in many European countries are "more" deeply rooted overall than in America. Not unusual in Europe to find adult children (20's-30's) still living at home with parents, or nearby. Structure of the EU supports trade, commerce, travel, technology, etc., hence, BB is also encouraged/expected and may be provided much as a utility (sort of like some U.S. cities now offer city-wide wireless BB). In the U.S., my family and social structure is wider, broader, somewhat insular. Public transportation in U.S. vs. EU...most folks in U.S. prefer to drive their own car to work, for errands, etc. Promotes need for cell phones (who is counting/including the Internet/BB users via their cell phone?) by almost everyone, even young kids in middle-class homes. In U.S., we are much more open/accepting to newer things be it tech related or the latest burger combination at Wendy's. We do not have the structure of the EU, nor the commercial constraints. What is keeping anyone in a non-serviced BB area from getting a government grant or at worst, a low-interest loan with a friend or neighbor and creating a wireless BB or satellite BB solution? Even getting gov't permission to require XYZ company across the tracks to allow users to form a co-op or non-profit (which is required by most gov't grants it seems) and tap into their service? I know this has been long, but after reading all the posts in this thread from well-educated/experienced BB users/providers/subs, etc., I thought I would post my input from a non-BB industry related person except purely as a consumer/user. Do I need the Internet? Yes, not just for research (which I do little of anymore at home) or email and news, but there is real value in entertainment (outside P2P and viral videos) with my BB connection. Firefox's browser has a neat lttle extension called "StumbleUpon." It does just what it says, you click on your interests, and then click the StumbleUpon button on the menu bar, and you can be taken to some really great/interesting/just "OK"/bad/and "waste of space" websites. Keep the sites you like. Get on IRC or even a Yahoo! chatroom with people all over the world. Try Google Earth and you can "visit" about anyplace on Earth you want. For old-times sake, pick a familiar place on the globe and you can zoom in at an angle and speed that will remind one of a target run in one's F/A-18 Hornet they used to drive. I agree that the Internet and BB will progress with society, as kids with computers and BB from grade-school on up experience the Internet in BB, BB will become as normal as a T.V. in the home. As consumers become driven to the Internet by advertising (what business/service advertising in T.V., and print media does not have a webpage/site? Few.), the want will become a need. Before I spend my valuable time shopping for most purchases outside a bag of chips, I go to the Internet first. I can sometimes get web-only offers, can research pros/cons of brands, or whatever I want. I can buy it on the Internet often cheaper than at the mall or big-box store, or find out in advance about a "coming soon" offer in a store or location. I can rent DVDs with no late fees, in short, the cost of my BB connection has done more for me by providing cheaper yet quality local/LD/Int'l phone service and free samples from major companies, offers, entertainment, and in some cases, a place to vent. Prices won't just come down unless BB providers want to gain market share to show a better balance sheet for the time when they are bought-out by another company (even outside the BB industry) or they actually do want to gain a larger subscriber base and find profits in volume. In the meantime, many forces will drive consuners to BB in it's various forms, just as it did me. It is now more of a perk than a need, and far beyond a want. Adam Smith got it right. The "invisible hand" will drive the economy of BB beyond what I may have identifed either strongly or by a slender thread. | |
|
75percent
@verizon.net
| of bandwidth.. 75% of broadband is sub 10megabits and is asymmetric...
so is it really that good?
Yes and No.
Yes, cause its enough to give telcos a thorn in its side with their $6 fcc line charge + taxes and fees for phone service compared to alternative VOIP.
No, cause its still not maxing out 100/100 routers by any stretch of the imagination nor will it by 2010, 2011, 2012 to any significant majority of broadband users. Video is stil not ready for prime time.. piracy or fee structure are both too slow to be mainstream. | |
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42% of Americans Have Broadband
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Simply Isn't Suitable