 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | LMAO! Just don't update.  | |
|  | 
digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana | Re: LMAO! If a human built it.... a human can take it apart. | |
| | questionguy6
join:2004-04-29
Brooklyn, NY
| ok, can someone tell me why it's "ok" and legal to sell and by "used" cd's and it's not ok to download music. I was under the impression that our copy right laws were created to protect those who created intellectual property. So if I create something I can sell it and if you get ahold of it and you didn't create it you do not have the right to sell it. So you cannot make a profit off of my work. Now when you buy a used cd the artist does not make a profit the record lables do not make a profit. Some business (kims, sounds, hastings or whatever business) makes a profit off a work they had no right to sell. So can anyone tell me why that is ok and has been for years and why the riaa is suing kids? | |
| | | 
asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| Re: LMAO! I'm not a lawyer.
There is the first sale doctrine
"..the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord."
There is a distinction made between ownership of a physical copy of a work and ownership of the copyright. The owner of that physical copy can lend or sell it, but cannot copy it.
Of course with a physical copy you can't legally copy it and if you sell it you no longer have access to it yourself.
In the case of downloading each download is a copy and does not remove the original copy from the possession of the original owner. There are arguments about extending the first sale doctrine to digital copies, provided the original copy is destroyed. Copyright law will never, however, allow the uncontrolled multiplying of copies. | |
| 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
1 edit | The RIAA loves it Those who write the DRM killers are giving the RIAA the ammution to kill all music distribution via the net.
--
"Remember when hacking a loogy
it comes not so much from the lungs but from the soul." | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: The RIAA loves it Like they can do that? Right. If you want to steal, er um, share music, you can do what I did when I was young. Get together with your friends. Each of you buys an album and the others make tape copies.
This will go on regardless of what anyone says or does until the availability of any device capable of recording an analog stream of audio is not available to the general public.
Even now, who can stop 10 friends from each buying a CD, using their sound card to digitize the analog signal, compress it to MP3 and then trade it with the others via e-mail, FTP or any old method that the 10 choose to use regardless of what the RIAA, MPAA or law enforcement agencies do? It's completely private, there's no way to track it and unless one of the 10 rats on everyone else, who would know or care?
The bottom line is that all of this will stop once the price of the music reaches a point where it's too cheap to cheat. It's clear we haven't reached that price just yet. We may never reach that price and if we don't, someone will always "break" the system to cheat. It's inevitable and there will never be a perfect system. There can only be a system that makes going around it, more costly than abiding by it. Right now this is the only real weapon that anyone has over how cheap, "too cheap to cheat" is. | |
| | | 
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: The RIAA loves it said by rradina  :
Even now, who can stop 10 friends from each buying a CD, using their sound card to digitize the analog signal, compress it to MP3 and then trade it with the others via e-mail, FTP or any old method that the 10 choose to use regardless of what the RIAA, MPAA or law enforcement agencies do? It's completely private, there's no way to track it and unless one of the 10 rats on everyone else, who would know or care?
Exactly. As long as the consumer physically has the CD, or the file, there exists a way to distribute it illegally. All that they can do at this point is make that process more and more inconvenient, so much that "average JOE" can't do it.
--
Science-fiction yesterday, fact today, obsolete tomorrow. - Otto O. Binder | |
| | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: The RIAA loves it Even if they don't have the CD, the tape or the file in any manner that they know as a file, unless the RIAA funds some sort of digital cochlear implant into which we plug our music players, something has to eventually decrypt, decode and render an analog signal for our ears.
As soon as that signal is analog, it can be sampled, digitized, compressed and shared.
Is it as good as the original digital source? It won't matter on the average portable consumers buy. | |
| | | 
BoredofTrade
join:2003-06-29
Wheaton, IL | But I don't have any friends! Wah!  | |
| 
technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| It's Coming.... "Do you hear that Mr Smith? It's the sound of inevitability"
I give it a month before this one is cracked and trashed... It's my music, I paid for it, I can do anything I want with it, including shoving it up your #@$ and cracking it...
Thanks, Drive Through...
--
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius - - - - - - - - - - - Streamfire.net- - AIM - CoNFuCiUsNiCk | |
| | 
Supafly
Premium
join:2000-07-15
Lancaster, CA
| Re: It's Coming.... said by technick :
It's my music, I paid for it, I can do anything I want with it, including shoving it up your #@$ and cracking it...
NO NO NO NO NO NO AND NO! You might of paid for it, but you agreed to the EULA before purchasing it! If you disagree with the licensing agreement, by all means don't buy the music! Just because you bought it does NOT mean you can manipulate the file in any way, shape or form.
I'm a audiophile at heart, but I download music "illegally" all the time. But you know what, 100% of my cd purchases are from music I liked after downloading, I don't watch MTV or listen to the radio, so I choose what I like.
I hate the RIAA as much as the next person, their fascist ways and their gestapo stunts make me sick, but you know what? I still buy music from artists under the RIAA umbrella because the artist I like and listen to the most should be supported. | |
| | |
rubber_ducky
@adelphia.net | Re: It's Coming.... If you want to support the artist, then send them a check directly to them in the mail.... don't give the greedy bastards (riaa) what they do not deserve...and the by the way.. downloading per se is not illegal, its what u do with it | |
| | | | jcolbert
join:2000-09-03
Springville, IA
| Re: It's Coming.... Strangely enough, thats one thing I do. I have found all kinds of new to me music on napster, kazaa, etc.. over the years. I often buy CDs if I like it enough. When I buy the CDs, I get them either directly from the artist's site, or used on Amazon. As a matter of fact, recently my wife aquired a taste for Chris Isaak after listening to 5 CD's worth of MP3s I got. She bought the 5 CD's worth, plus another one, all though Amazon. Total cost $32 shipped for about 6 CDs/72 songs. Beats the heck out of iTunes, and RIAA gets nothing. | |
| | | 
tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Supafly :
said by technick :
It's my music, I paid for it, I can do anything I want with it, including shoving it up your #@$ and cracking it...
NO NO NO NO NO NO AND NO! You might of paid for it, but you agreed to the EULA before purchasing it! If you disagree with the licensing agreement, by all means don't buy the music! Just because you bought it does NOT mean you can manipulate the file in any way, shape or form.
I'm a audiophile at heart, but I download music "illegally" all the time. But you know what, 100% of my cd purchases are from music I liked after downloading, I don't watch MTV or listen to the radio, so I choose what I like.
I hate the RIAA as much as the next person, their fascist ways and their gestapo stunts make me sick, but you know what? I still buy music from artists under the RIAA umbrella because the artist I like and listen to the most should be supported.
Haven't seen a new cd in a long time, are their EULA's on packaging? | |
| | | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Re: It's Coming.... The EULA when downloading songs from iTMS says you can't crack the DRM. | |
| | | | | | | | | 
Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state | Re: It's Coming.... He was referring to ITMS...not a cd store.
With ITMS the EULA is there when you use the service so yes..it is at the register per say
--
Forum Posts:4326 | |
| | | | 
rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| nope, no EULAs on (audio) CDs. But there is definitely an EULA/AUP/ToS for every music download site I know about (Apple, WalMart, eMusic, etc.). And most of them have language along the lines of: you agree to be bound by these terms; if you can't agree to these terms, your remedy is not to use the service.
I was quite disappointed when reading these license clauses too. Unlike forking over money for CDs, where all the fair use clauses of the copyright laws apply, we don't buy jack diddly squat from these online music places. We buy the revocable right to have proprietary programs cram some data into our sound controller drivers, or alternately, be transferred to a device with proprietary programming (WMA-compatible MP3 player or iPod) that's supposed to output some electricity to some headphones. I assert it's too difficult and abstract for the average consumer (who's used to buying vinyl or CDs) to wrap their mind around that concept (at least properly), so there's an awful lot of hand waving going on and they pretend it's like they just purchased a CD or a slice of a CD.
It's like a lot of technology...call it law technology if you like. One has to be a specialist to truly understand it (whether an EE, a CE, a SE...or in the case of law, a lawyer), and the average person chooses an approximation (or model if you like) to simplify it so that they can understand it. And details get lost (like, one doesn't really own anything). Music from these online places is a lot more like a really long season pass for a ski resort (theoretically perpetual, but not really; they add language to the ToS giving them the right to revoke your rights). You buy the right to use the slopes (work of music) as much as you can handle.
If end-users only understood this, they might not spend so much money on something as abstract as rights. It feels more concrete, like a CD, because now there is that much less free space left on their hard drives. But it only seems like it because it operates a LOT like a CD. I have a feeling if it were only understood for what it is, people would demand to own the file. The one saving grace is that these programs allow the works to be written to CD-R[W], so then it functions a lot more like the traditional CDDA model. That's what the RIAA members should do, and stop worrying so much about it. Remove this silly encryption technology, and prosecute people on copyright violation grounds instead of DMCA subversion grounds.
I love to refer back to The Adolescence of P-1, wherein it is written that locks are a dynamic delaying device. A new, more hardened lock is invented, then sometime later, someone figures out how to pick it. So inventors figure out how to make an even harder lock, but that only last for a while...and on and on.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here | |
| | | | | 
Wyattx17
Wyatt
Premium
join:2004-04-21
Stockton, CA | ROFL | |
| jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Two weeks... That's my guess on how long till this is a non-issue. | |
| |
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: Two weeks... I was thinking more like one week. LOL! | |
| | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Two weeks... What makes you fellas so sure?
While there will, probably, always be the "analog fly" in the DRM ointment, I fully expect that DRM will be locking digital things up very tightly before long.
All the more reason to ONLY deal with normal MP3 and Ogg Vorbis (and other) files, sans DRM. In for a penny to DRM, in for a pound. No matter HOW cool that mini-iPod is.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: Two weeks... B, my expectation is that the next phase will be some creative folks (not Creative(tm) mind you!) who start writing their own firmware for the various music players that are out there. This may have happened already; I don't follow music much.
I'd draw a comparison to to $1000 Canon digital SLR camera -- most of the same hardware capabilities of their "pro" line that costs a lot more, but with some features turned off in the firmware. Some Russian guys looked in the firmware, figured it out, and are continuing to unlock and improve some great features of the camera. No need to buy a 10D model any more -- just download the hack and your 300d is the same animal.
If the IPOD (or whatever) doesn't support MP3s or whatever other in vogue DRM-less format exists, someone who really likes the hardware will make it so that it does.
Now what I do fully expect is that some idiot in Congress is going to try to re-write the laws that allow reverse engineering, and try to mess things up. Or, put some sort of lame encryption in firmware that makes it illegal under the DCMA or something.
The anarchy of the internet is going to be a tough thing for companies to grapple with for a long time to come. | |
| | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Two weeks... Even if they do decide to encrypt the firmware. It does no good. They dump the code out decrypt and write their own legal firmware since they own the item.
I think Microsoft had this same issue with their xbox console. I was reading they swap the bios chips out in favor of a linuxable bios. Funny thing is they used them for web servers on the site. Was pretty amusing i must say.
--
This package does not contain a winner... | |
| | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
|
Thanks for the reply, jester121 ! I didn't know that anyone had hacked the Canons that way; very interesting.
I'm not sure how to respond to your other points; we're really touching on two things -- will hardware players be able to play un-DRMed media, and the (easy) answer to that question is sure, at least some will.
The other, separate, question is whether DRM will continue to be hacked out of the way, and my theory is that NO, it will reach a point of maturity where you will NOT be able to play a DRM'd piece of media, or crack it, without at least one digital to analog conversion.
As to policing RCA and headphone jacks.... it could happen!
Even something like a working version of Macrovision (has that company done ANYTHING to improve its technology in the last 20 years?) would cause trouble on the analog side.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Two weeks... And rather apropos, from Slashdot, is this article on Kazaa itself suing reverse-engineers...
»slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/28/1635219
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | | | 
Safron
join:2001-07-25
Gray, GA
clubs: | Accoustic Physics 101 If you can hear it, you can record it.
I don't see anyway the RIAA (or anyone) can get around that little physics flaw. | |
| | | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Hacked Already! Dadkins wins -- he said ONE week! hehe...
Wouldn't you just LOVE to be a fly on the wall in the conference room when the boss gets everyone together and hands out the slashdot story to the highly paid devs? | |
| apsinkus
join:2002-06-25
Chicago, IL
| XM radio baby! What made me stop buying CDs was not availability of Napster and etc.
Two things - on-line radio from Europe (since no one here sells reasonably priced imports vinyl or CDs) and XM radio. I haven't bought a CD for more than 3 years and I don't plan to for a long time.
In the car and at home I listen to XM, which is like an addiction to me, because you can listen 24 hours and they will repeat same song maybe twice, so everything is always fresh.
On-line radio stations are for my euro fix.
Once songs drop to 50cents per download with unlimited CD burns and they actually will have what I like (which RIAA calls imports, or in their terminology = no money for them), I will come back. Until then, I will support XM and get me EU music for free (which I can record without breaking fair use).
And re. Apple. Sell your overpriced $hit to someone else, Apple. I hate those sales people at Apple stores, they think they are something special. Hate to break it to you, you are no Bentley dealer, you are selling computers - cheap $hit in "designer" shell.
If I want Linux, I will get the real deal. | |
| |
See 10 replies to this post | |
Let us play fair
@sympatico.ca | big deal So Apple found a way to elminate Playfair...big deal. Another crack will be available soon. | |
| Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL | Pass the chains. I was thinking of posting a comment such as;
People are stupid for supporting such technologies
But then quickly remembered there those who still stick pencils up their noses. | |
| |
technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
| Re: Pass the chains. Grrrr.... | |
| | | Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL | Re: Pass the chains. Lol, close enough. Just shows technology can be used in ways not intended. | |
| | 
reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL | What does apple care? I thought that the RIAA forced apple to use the DRM, and it's the lowest amount of drm that the riaa would allow? | |
| 
TooMuch
So Much Coffee
Premium
join:2002-09-06
underbridge | Cosmetic changes? Hmmm... Lossless codec as a 'cosmetic change'. Nice job, Mr. Editor.
--
...so little sleep | |
| | 
JJ
Beat It, Bill
Premium,MVM
join:2000-02-18
Madison, WI
| Re: Cosmetic changes? said by TooMuch :
Hmmm... Lossless codec as a 'cosmetic change'. Nice job, Mr. Editor.
Go drink your Kool Aid Macboy. Don't you realize that Apple developed that codec and all the other features cosmetic changes over the past few weeks with the sponsorship of the RIAA, Opus Dei, and the paramilitary wing of the Girl Scouts as a smokescreen for this crushing blow against the noble pirates who only want to help idiots who are too lazy to burn to CD first? Screw the new codec it's all about DRM or I'll eat my tinfoil hat. | |
| | | | | | |
|
|
Apple Updates
·
