 
Favre04
Premium
join:2002-08-03
USA | Pipe Dream 1/3 of existing cable or DSL customers would switch?? BS | |
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cjynx
Whatchu Talkin' Bout
join:2003-01-13
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Pipe Dream said by Favre04  :
1/3 of existing cable or DSL customers would switch?? BS
They only asked 3 people and one of them said that they might switch leading to their 1/3. ha ha | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | Re: Pipe Dream that's just plan crazy | |
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| oranges
join:2003-12-24 | is it any faster? i mean by the time it's gonna come around taiwan, fiber optic'll be up.  | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: Pipe Dream 1/3 of existing Cable or DSL customers are ignorant of the issue (and I'm being generous) | |
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| | macmouse
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Saratoga, CA
| Its not quite clear... it will definitely be something like cable (where the bandwith is shared in your block). The highest I've seen is 54mbits from a press-release (»www.ebusinessforum.com/index.asp···ch_story) shared across all customers. So, calculate that as you will. The current one's are offering, 512kbits (symetrical?) service at the moment.
Not to mention, that there *are* distance limitations as well just like DSL, except they are even shorter. Also, because the equipment is experimental/new it also costs a lot more to deploy. So you get the negative of both cable/dsl in one service, yay!
I admit, there are some area's that only have power (no phone or cable) but those are few and far between. Definitely not profitable markets..Well, over the short term anyway. | |
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Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium,VIP
join:2003-11-26
| Re: Pipe Dream said by macmouse :
Its not quite clear... it will definitely be something like cable (where the bandwith is shared in your block). The highest I've seen is 54mbits from a press-release (»www.ebusinessforum.com/index.asp···ch_story) shared across all customers. So, calculate that as you will. The current one's are offering, 512kbits (symetrical?) service at the moment.
Not to mention, that there *are* distance limitations as well just like DSL, except they are even shorter. Also, because the equipment is experimental/new it also costs a lot more to deploy. So you get the negative of both cable/dsl in one service, yay!
I admit, there are some area's that only have power (no phone or cable) but those are few and far between. Definitely not profitable markets..Well, over the short term anyway.
Wow, shared bandwith limitations like cable and distance issues like DSL? My god, it's the best of two worlds. 
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Jesus saves, but only Buddha makes incremental backups. | |
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| karlj1
join:2004-01-25
Ottawa, ON
| Heck if that's the case I'd jump on board BPL in a New York minute. I'll admit, it may take a while to get a comparable offering. But once it's there, I'm all for it.
My take on this is forced bundling. Most phone companies force you to get a phone line in order to get DSL. Most cable companies force you to get at least basic cable in order to get their broadband.
As for BPL, don't know too many people that will want to cancel their power service. If anything BPL will force the Phone and cable companies to abandon forced bundling. | |
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| xp4fibroptic
join:2004-03-15
Ephrata, WA
| I agree , besides , doesn't anyone realize that if BPL is allowed to be implemented, it will effectively eliminate HAM radio communications for people like FEMA! There are a long line of very nasty problems with this , that being one of many, its a bad idea plain and simple. Just think of all the do-it-yourself Tim Taylor types that are gonna electrocute themselves to death making it go faster. Two thumbs down on BPL.
Still waiting fo the mother ship , , , , Xp4fiberoptic | |
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| xp4fibroptic
join:2004-03-15
Ephrata, WA
| I agree , besides , doesnt anyone relaize that if BPL is allowed to be implimented, it will efectively eliminate HAM radio communications for people like FEMA! There are a long line of very nasty problems with this , that being one of many, its a bad idea plain and simple. Just think of all the do-it-yourslef Tim Taylor types that are gonna electicute themselves to death makin it go faster. Two thumbs down on BPL.
Still waiting fo the mother ship , , , , Xp4fiberoptic | |
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nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
| Re: Benefit? said by RXDOC :
What would be the benefit to BPL....my power goes out more frequently than my DSL.
Good point. Next, the BPL folks will be pushing for VoIP over BPL....great...Let's throw everything on powerlines so that a single point of failure will bring down all communications! Remember the blackout from last August? Eggs, meet the one basket.  | |
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RXDOC
Still alive but hanging on by a thread
Premium,MVM
join:2002-03-13
Palatine, IL
clubs:
| Re: Benefit? Not only that....one car accident hitting a pole takes out how many users....or a thunder storm knocks out power to how many? California will just love it with their annual brown outs.
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Join Team Discovery TSC! | Join The Health & Fitness Forum | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
 ·Comcast
| Well doesn't your DSL modem needs power doesn't it? Seems like if the power goes out, you'd lose service any way. After all a UPS only lasts so long.
As for the benefit:
1. Most homes have multiple power outlets per room, but not so for cable or phone jacks. So anywhere you can plug a computer in, you can have a BPL modem. Currently I have a long cat6 cable running along the walls from the room where my cable jack is, to where my modem is.
2. BPL modems would only need to be plugged into the power outlet to work. Meaning anyone could set one up.
3. Theoretically you could plug a BPL modem in anywhere serviced by your local power grid and it would work. So your modem would be portable and work at any house/business in your neighborhood (state or larger area). You can do similar things with cable modems, but only if the place is wired for cable (not sure if DSL modems are portable). The thing is every place is wired for electricity so it would work anywhere.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Benefit? Not if you use a power backup. At my hous ethat scenario hit yesterday. I surfed for quite abit with no power. | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL | 45mins of battery time on UPS's (mostly APC SmartUPS') and thats more than enough time to fire up the ol' generator
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BellSouth sucks | |
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| | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: Benefit? Keep in mind that most UPS's have built in EMI filtering.
These would not work with BPL as they would filter out the
higher frequency components for not only that room but the
surrounding rooms as well.
UPS's will need to be redesigned in order to work with BPL. | |
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kfolsom
Top of the foodchain.
Premium
join:2003-01-31
clubs:
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| said by Morac :
Well doesn't your DSL modem needs power doesn't it? Seems like if the power goes out, you'd lose service any way. After all a UPS only lasts so long.
My DSL modem operates with a "wall wart", and I have a 12 volt system made up of a bank of car batteries kept "topped off" by a solar array. My laptop, modem and router can function for quite a long time on this backup. Flick a switch and...
If power does go out, I can operate my computer network, radio gear, television(small B&W), beverage cooler and many other pieces of gear in my home. I acknowledge, though, that not everyone has this kind of backup.
But you are right about BPL losing connectivity during power outages. That is only one thing that makes BPL unsuitable...
Not swinging for hams in this post, only responding. The ham versus BPL argument is overdone...
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"Maybe" is twice as good as "No", but only half as good as "Yes"... »www.folsomtech.com | |
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polymers
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Petal, MS | More competition I don't know about the survey, but I do know that more competition is a good thing. Hopefully they will work the bugs out.. | |
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Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| Re: More competition said by polymers :
Hopefully they will work the bugs out..
Can't wait for the Ham down the street to swing his Tribander in your direction, and fire up the Kilowatt. It won't be pretty. BPL for blocks around will go poof! Or maybe a good long rag chew on 40 or 80 M should keep everyone in the neighborhood offline for the evening. Good luck with your BPL, your going to need it.;)
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Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Aldous Huxley | |
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kfolsom
Top of the foodchain.
Premium
join:2003-01-31
clubs:
·Verizon west (ex G..
| said by Mactron :
Can't wait for the Ham down the street to swing his Tribander in your direction, and fire up the Kilowatt. It won't be pretty. BPL for blocks around will go poof! Or maybe a good long rag chew on 40 or 80 M should keep everyone in the neighborhood offline for the evening.
Not only hams, but CBers, will be able to affect BPL in this fashion. CBers have, for years, used more power than necessary to carry out "reliable" communications. Not an indictment of CBers' operating habits-just a statement...;)
I await the day that BPL comes to my neighborhood. I imagine that some BPL customer will come to my door and "advise" me that interference from my station will not be tolerated...;) Maybe even a mob with pitchforks and torches a-la "Frankenstein". 
Back to topic; BPL will be defeated by RF communications, IMHO. Hams have thus far been unsuccessful in preventing the rollout of this train-wreck, and cannot keep BPL interference "in the wire", but hams and CBers will basically have the last word in the field and in the trenches.:D The CBers posting in the CB forums I have visited are "up in arms", too.:o
In the case of my station, I have antennae (all vertical) literally within 10 feet of the antenna with which my father-in-law feeds his TV... In the three years I have been operating thus, there have been NO interference issues. Proximity and horizontal polarization may be a different animal altogether for BPL, though. I predict that BPL will be adversely affected by proximity, too.
Disclaimer: I am a ham AND a CBer... I use no more than "legal limit" on CB (SSB, 12 W PEP/4W, AM) and no more than five watts on ham frequencies. I talk to operators all over the world.;)
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"Maybe" is twice as good as "No", but only half as good as "Yes"... »www.folsomtech.com | |
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polymers
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Petal, MS | I did not say that I would switch to the technology. I only said that more competition is a good thing..unless you just like giving money away. | |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL
| Read the actual question Look at the quote:
quote:
In fact, more than a third would drop their telephone or cable company right now and switch to the local energy utility for the higher speeds and extra features of broadband over power lines (BPL) for the same or lower price of their present service, according to the just-completed survey.
So basically the question was - "If BPL offered the same service for less money, would you switch?" and 1/3 people said sure. Not terribly surprising. | |
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Big Score
join:2004-02-15
Atlanta, GA
| BPL Where BPL will have both DSL & Cable by the short & curlies, is with customers in rural areas.
It's simply not price effective to service people in low density population areas via DSL or cable, so the majority of these people aren't even offered the service. Their only possible Broadband provider currently, is Sattelite.
BPL will be a Godsend to these folks.
Now in the major metro areas, where both DSL & Cable are readily available, if BPL's price point and service is competitive, I'd switch in a New York second.
Why wouldn't I? | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| said by Big Score :
Where BPL will have both DSL & Cable by the short & curlies, is with customers in rural areas.
It's simply not price effective to service people in low density population areas via DSL or cable, so the majority of these people aren't even offered the service. Their only possible Broadband provider currently, is Sattelite.
BPL will be a Godsend to these folks.
Now in the major metro areas, where both DSL & Cable are readily available, if BPL's price point and service is competitive, I'd switch in a New York second.
Why wouldn't I?
The problem with your logic is money, BPL can't make money in a rural environment. the cost of running BPL to an isolated rural house is very high and for what you would have to charge no one would want it.
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»www.gobpl.com | |
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| gurugordon
join:2004-03-24
Sunbury, PA
| said by Big Score :
Where BPL will have both DSL & Cable by the short & curlies, is with customers in rural areas.
It's simply not price effective to service people in low density population areas via DSL or cable, so the majority of these people aren't even offered the service. Their only possible Broadband provider currently, is Sattelite.
BPL will be a Godsend to these folks.
Now in the major metro areas, where both DSL & Cable are readily available, if BPL's price point and service is competitive, I'd switch in a New York second.
Why wouldn't I?
So which planet to you live on? Why do you think that DSL and cable are not available in rural areas? Why do you think that it will be any different for BPL? Don't you realize that BPL requires equipment to operate too, and the same laws of economics apply to it as to any other kind fo broadband service.
BPL is only viable in urban areas, but even there its competitiveness is in doubt. As for this ridiculous survey, if they included dial-up customers, then there is little wonder that 1 in 3 said "yes". | |
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Lethal8472
join:2004-02-24
Loretto, KY
clubs:
| Surge Protectors I just thought of something...could a BPL modem possibly not work through a surge protector? The surge protector may determine the signal to be line noise and filter it out...rendering it useless. If this is true and I would have to plug it straight into a wall, it would be impossible, since all of my nearby outlets are full. Has anyone heard anything about this? | |
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electonicsnut
@bellsouth.net
| Re: Surge Protectors If your surge protector also has built in EMI/RFI protection like most of the newer ones do, it will definitely filter out BPL and quite effectively.
In fact the power supply on almost every desktop has a filter built-in and this filter may just make you have to plug the modem into a different socket. The filter looks like a short circuit to BPL signals.
These are just a few of the gotcha's. Me I wouldn't have BPL on a bet. | |
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dtbmjax
join:2001-01-03
Jacksonville, FL
| Switch???? I don't believe 1/3 of DSL and Cable customers would be interested in switching either. As a matter of fact, the direct quote from businesswire.com states "dial-up and cable modem customers express the greatest interest in switching." It's easier to reach the 1/3 number when factoring in dial-up and cable customers as opposed to cable and dsl customers. | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Oh this is just too funny... This survey must have been taken by "Baghdad Bob". The first question must have been, do you know what BPL is?
If they answered no the questioning continued. It turns out
the BIG energy companies are not interested in BPL as Broadband provider they know it will never be able to compete with Cable and DSL. They are interested in it for
grid control and nothing more. If you want to read about the true state of BPL go here... »www.gobpl.com/sharkbites.html
This is a report by someone who attended the latest stock holders meeting for Ambient. Not a pretty picture. I get the impression it is the market place that is going to end
BPL. Thank God there are people in the energy industry who
listen to their Engineers and Lawyers.
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»www.gobpl.com | |
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riturno
join:2004-04-20
Dallas, TX
| More questions than answers Without knowing the questions asked in the survey the conclusions of this survey should be questioned. Were the aims of the companies conducting the survey purely to gain information or was there an ulterior motive?
Other questions that would get to the heart of the issue include "Who funded the survey?" and "Who are the current major clients of BWGI?" A quick review of their website shows that the bulk of the client list is in the energy industry, not in telco.
Remember the surveys put out by Comcast and cronies to sway opinion about municipal broadband projects?
Survey methodology can virtually pre-determine outcome. | |
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kennz3
join:2003-05-24
nirvana
| BPL ?! BPL would most likely be like Powerline . So in if I am right then you can't use BPL if you are connecting to a power surge. Anything with a transformer is useless. Anything with a circuit breaker or even a switch or a fuse is USELESS. So why opt for this alternative I say go use the current technologies since I think the new technology would not last due to its many limitations.
just words that you need to ponder on. | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
| The lesser of two... errr three evils... either way, the phone company, the power company, and the cable company are all evil, they are all going to have their issues, and all the services are more than likely going to suck...
whtcha gonna do about it?
if your net connection is *that* important to you then you live in the wrong country...
so much for America the great or whatever.... more like america the greedy courrupt thing between asia and europe... not that other places arnt as bad... but at least you can get better net connections for less money lol
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BellSouth sucks | |
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asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| doesn't seem unreasonable... 1. Most people don't care much about speed as long as its in the right ballpark.
2. Electrical utilities tend to have significantly higher customer satisfaction numbers than either the ilecs or cablecos(I think it was just last week there was info on a report posted here about the pathetic ratings of the cablecos). | |
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| bigskank
join:2002-06-07
Norman, OK
| Re: doesn't seem unreasonable... Why on earth WOULD i switch? For the same speed at the same price, what is my incentive? I have to go through the hassle of cancelling my current cable (or dsl) broadband, then wait 5 days for the power company to come out and get me set up. Plus, how many powerline jockeys or meter readers are going to be able to work on the technicals? These power companies are going to have to hire lots of new people, and you can bet that they won't saturate themselves with techies who can fix a BPL problem in your home.
It's just wouldn't be worth it. | |
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warriors
It's A Great Time Out
join:2001-06-05
Alviso, CA | Re: doesn't seem unreasonable... I have DSL, and I definitely want to switch to ditch the landline if the price/performace is comparable to DSL. Cable modem ($45+) is just too expensive compared to DSL ($26.95) | |
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| | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: doesn't seem unreasonable... Yes agreed but cable is also three times faster than DSL.
In my area DSL is lucky to reach 800K, where cable runs
3Mb+ for only 15 bucks more a month - Go Figure. And cable is thinking of doubling that to 6Mb/s for the same price! Neither one of these services causes interference to licensed spectrum users. They adhere to strict radiation standards, and pay large fines when they don't, that's why you see the cable guys walking around alot, there checking for "leaks" in their system.
On another note BPL will be lucky to reach 300K especially when the user load gets high (the pilot sites are around 1Mb/s with only ten users) and the ingress from licensed services forces it to do multiple retries on packets if not fail altogether. Not to mention the random nature/condition of wiring in each building/neighborhood will cause unwanted reflections that will cause cancelling and reduction of signal in the most un-thought of places. If your next door neighbor who does not have BPL but has an EMI equipped power strip or UPS, your BPL signal will be degraded, how about your garage doors opening all of a sudden? I can see it now you will be saying "but I didn't press the button". The others won't do that. | |
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jmkraft
Essayons
Premium
join:2002-04-11
Paris, IL
| Ready for BPL? Gee just what those that already have broadband need - somthing else to compete with DSL/cable.
I will buy the first thing that reaches my house. AT least it will be faster that my 41k dialup and it can't be any worse than the sat. dish.
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"US Army Engineer" Dual 2.8 Ghz Xeon Server, 512MB Ram, Extigy, WinXP-Pro, CD Rom, Lite-On DVD Burner, Matrox G450PCI Video, USR 56k Modem, using Packet8 on dialup | |
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Spark05
@65.54.x.x
| Re: Ready for BPL? I'm ready for BPL. I live in the worst area in the world. I live in the suburbs, but my idiot Cable Company doesn't have fiber optic cable in my area. I've heard there's no easy way to find out if I could get DSL, so forget that. So right now i'm using a one-way cable modem and it sucks. My power company sent me a postcard offering for me to sign up. Since it is the only two-way connection in my area, i'm definately ready fo it. | |
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dforan
join:2000-12-09
Willoughby, OH | Oh pleeeze My power company, CEI, is Soooooo bad, compared to service with SBC.. My power goes out so often it is silly.. But last Aug 14, my power was only out 4 hours... I wish my prower provider had the reliability of my phone and yes, my cable service | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Survey and Human Nature 101 The survey is actually within a report entitled "BPL Strategies for Utilties". I'm sure other reports in their portfolio targeted at DSL, Cable, or Wireless carriers would carry a different tune.
Undoubtedly if you ask anyone if they'd like to have a better product X at less cost than what they are paying now, they'd say yes. You'd be a fool not to. The question is does a better, cheaper product X actually exist, without strings attached? Posing questions a certain way without the underlying facts will most always get the desired answer.
Product X in this case is BPL. We've discussed ad nausem the problems associated with it and the economic uncertainties, especially in rural markets. Despite political support at the FCC and carrier enthusiasm, the technical realities still exist.
Ask the question, would you buy broadband service that is about the same or maybe less speed at the same cost, with no regulatory protection and based on an unproven technology that may interfere with radio communications, you'll get a significantly different set of answers. | |
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me1234
join:2003-10-15
| im ready for it i am on direcway and i would switch from my 70 dollar a month to a 30 dollar more stable and far better ping time in a sec. even if it was only a meg by 256 i would still be happy. i can get a meg or even 2 but its not a consitant thing. and the upload well i am never able to beat dial up. ping time wow i would love to have one under 1000 mill sec. pretty much every person on satellite internet who had a need for uploading playing games or anything that satellite cant give would switch. i think its a good thing since i cant get dsl or cable and prob wont ever be able to. i could have internet at my cabin were i only get power...no phone no cable. you just have to look at the people how would want it. cant wait for it haha | |
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AzrAura
@bellsouth.net
|  Jump on the bandwagon
I have been promised by Bellsouth that coverage would expand to my area within 6-12 months. That was 13 months ago!!!! So naturally, I am a bit peeved that I still connect at 26.4
If BPL can bring service to my rural area(no one else has), then I will sign up the day they offer it. I would have Cable right now, but I live too far off the street to get that...
As for the surge protectors filtering out the signal, there is an easy way around that.
Either:
1.) A power company technician would come out to make a direct connect straight to the supply lines feeding your house
2.) More modern breaker boxes will start to include connection plugs that you can plug a BPL modem straight into.
These are just theories as to what can be done, I am not saying that it is possible, I don't know enough about it to say for sure. | |
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gwion
wild colonial boy
Premium,ExMod 2003-08
join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| WHO.... (1) conducted the survey;
(2) paid for the survey;
(3) made up the sample and control sets;
(4) supervised and validated the results and processing...
... there are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics. Benj. Disraeli
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Semper Eadem
Nobody can be exactly like me. Sometimes even I have trouble doing it. | |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
 ·Dreamhost
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| Fantasy This is all a fantasy. They have been working on 'Broadband over Power Lines' for years with little success. Just seeing that - years - is enough of a turn-off. I will stick with my DSL and wait a few years to see if that ClearWire Wireless Broadband catches on (being tested in FL). It may not since it uses 802.16, which is basically 802.1x... AKA "Line Of Sight". This technology barely works within a house, how can in cover vast areas? | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: Fantasy 802.11 is being used to cover vast areas, though, and there's non-line-of-sight (NLOS) now available that extends coverage areas. Granted 802.11 wasn't the most ideal protocol for outside environments, but 802.16 addresses those issues along with other items like mobility. The LOS limitations you speak of are not protocol related, though, they're frequency spectrum driven. Efforts by the FCC to open up unused UHF TV channels would provide some spectrum with much better propagation characteristics than the ISM (2.4 Ghz) and UNII (5 Ghz) widely in use today.
I wouldn't consider the Clearwire product to be a litmus test for wireless. There's numerous WISPs in business now. It may provide further ammo for NLOS, though. | |
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Ready for BPL?
Benefit?
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