Long Arm of the Law
Aussie one step closer to US extradition
A man which is accused of operating a global software piracy network, Hew Raymond Griffiths, 41, could be the first Australian extradited to the United States
over alleged breaches of copyright law. Authorities in the U.S. have identified Griffiths as the ringleader of the Internet group, DrinkOrDie
, which authorities say had illegally copied and distributed more than $50-million (U.S.) worth of pirated software, movies, games and music before investigators shut it down in 2001. Mr. Griffiths if convicted of the U.S. charges could face up to 10 years in jail and fines of $500,000. A federal court ruled on July 7 that Mr. Griffiths should be extradited and gave him 15 days to appeal.
bah humbug Of all the problems we have with national security, crappy intelligence data, illegal aliens, extremist nutcases, etc and this is something our justice Department focuses on. Its right up there with extraditing the ex-chess champion from Japan for playing chess in a sanctioned country for money 20 years ago. It all comes down to, who cares and take care of something important.
Only Australian in US prison, nice... Since he operates a global software piracy network, he must have commited crime in many countries, so why does US have the right to trial him? Shouldn't Australia be the first country in the line to trial him?
Anyway, if he goes to USA prison, he would have a rough life. You know, those USA prisoners may never have a Australian b*tch before. This Australian will be very "popular" in prison.
| |sivranSeamonkey's backPremium
Re: more money down the drain You and Hellrazor just don't get it, do you?
There is more to the justice department than one person, one team. This criminal's extradition does not in any way mean that resources and people have been taken away from other projects.
Are you saying that, because the hunt for terrorists is a high priority, every single employee of the DoJ should dedicate 100% of his time to this task, regardless of the effect it has on the enforcement of other laws and the prosecution of those who break them?
Let's see, to put it in computer security terms... this would be like spending all your time working on firewall rules, while letting your Anti-Virus definitions lay out of date.
Hm, how about another analogy? Perhaps you'll understand a car analogy. Here goes: What would happen to your car if all you ever did was put gas in it and take care of your tires? A lot of problems would crop up, that's what, ultimately ending with your engine dying for lack of oil.
Just because your tires are very important, doesn't mean you focus all attention on them and neglect everything else. Do you get it now? Do you?
| |BeeperPart Of The Problem
Re: more money down the drain
said by BosstonesOwn:Extradition from and to the US is a normal thing. It has been codified for quite some time. Various nations have mutual treaty obligations to do so.
Ok I get your point on some, but it's not right. He broke a US law from another country. How can we enforce that law. It's not right that we do.
said by BosstonesOwn:A treaty has the same force of law as does the Constitution, or at least is supposed to. It is doubtful that you'd be extradited on misdemeanor traffic charges, but this isn't what the fellow is being changed with, eh?
If I broke the law in some other country by going over the speed limit here how can they come and arrest me ?
said by BosstonesOwn:It's not ground breaking. Many people think that the Internet repeals national laws, rational business practices, or the need to call their mom each week. Felonies are routinely committed by people in one location and are prosecuted for such conduct in another. The Internet is just another tool in the arsenal of a criminal. Using the Internet does not automatically provide a shield or get out of jail card for people under indictment.
I don't know if you guys really understand why this is a sort of ground breaking case.
said by BosstonesOwn:That's a feature, not a bug.
If the RIAA decides your from Australia and decides to press charges on you for stealing music. They can site this case as a reason to get you sent to the US.
said by BosstonesOwn:The implications are stunning. US citizens may be prosecuted and subject to beheading in Saudi Arabia for producing "pornography" that in the US would be found on Sesame Street.
Think of other implications this can have on society.
said by BosstonesOwn:That already happened a long time ago. Most of the planet has abdicated defending themselves and their sovereignty, instead placing it in the hands of Washington DC. They have placed their national economies in the hands of the Federal Reserve. They have placed their best and brightest pupils in American universities, hoping that some of them return back home afterwards. They have entered into trade pacts that are quite lopsidedly in favor of the US.
The US government becoming the world wide government soon.
All that's left for most nations is traffic regulation and their rights to wear silly hats.
said by BosstonesOwn:Yes, and this could happen today, if the server was in a US jurisdiction.
In 10 years if a Japanese kid is caught hacking a porn site for cheap thrills are you gonna extradite him to the US to face charges ?
said by BosstonesOwn:Notice I said America, and not the current administration. Most of the planet hated us 10 years ago, and most of the planet will hate us in 10 years when the US is under new management.
And the government in this country is by the people for the people. This means if they hate our government they hate us as well. The government is our representatives.
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism.
Re: Follow The Money... the way the U.S. is behaving on a global scale - no it's not "our" country - it's yours and evidently, you're perfectly fine w/ that. If you want to have a discourse w/ me regarding the current situation of a file trader's position in Australia that's fine, but it's something else entirely to call me Disingenuous or not understanding of this country's history.
Let me break it down for you, conservative troglodyte; the world, as we know it, is in a far more grave position because of what Bush and his appointed (appointed meaning people he has chosen) administration. From the war on terrorism to the Kyoto accords, The United States has led the way in the last 4 years of how to run international diplomacy, economic development, domestic security, race relations (your boy Dubya snubbed the NAACP this week - first time an acting pres. has done that since Hoover) right into the ground. And in Bush's case he's got Cheney's buds over at Halliburton still raking the American taxpayer over the coals (The pentagon is investigating 3, i repeat 3 separate incidents of overcharging by Halliburton - lol, and these were no bid contracts to begin w/ - talk about taking the money and then some.
You spoke of the supreme court... they have had ZERO hand in the case of this young man in Australia. Learn to read. It is solely the U.S. Dept of justice, who is headed not by the supreme court, but rather the Bush appointed attorney general, John Ashcroft - pushed this through a lower federal court, Just like the RIAA has done with so many unjustified subpoenas. perhaps you might have been asleep for the last 4 years, not just in your history classes.
Now, let's see, if this Australian bloke sets up a server with copyrighted files on it in Australia (depending on the domestic laws), and then people from across the world download those files - How has he broken any U.S. law? He's not in the U.S.! Now if the Aussie's wanna string him up, that's their business, but maybe Ashcroft can determine that he's an enemy combatant, that would be great. Here's a more appropriate example for ya: Italy still has an old law regarding outrageous public behavior - how would you feel if the Italian govt. attempted to extradite you, from your Arizona compound, to try you for moronic behavior against the public? That just seems un-American to me, but again, maybe I was asleep when the red-neck, idiotic version of the history of the U.S. of goddam A was being taught.
The US laws should reach across the globe? Who the hell created that law? Please send me a link so that I can better inform myself. As far as gitmo goes - you mean those god forsaken, towelheaded, camel jockey, doo rags, actually having the audacity to challenge the fact that they've been held for over 2 years, by YOUR Bush administration and never been charged with a crime. Where the hell do they get off?? (*insert sarcasm here). Not to mention how many of them have most likely been treated as bad, if not worse than Abu grieve prisoners - especially since your boy Rummy told the US armed forces generals to "take the gloves off".
Please, never speak to me about being disingenuous or stupid - I take world politics very seriously. Perhaps what you outta do is take your blinders off, get out and go for a hike and get some perspective. Furthermore - it is MY country, yours is the one that's leaving come nov. 2nd.
Re: Follow The Money... Ebone,
I am so happy you learned name calling at such an early age. Pinch a nerve did we , Too bad... How about this: More people have died in YOUR beloved Senator Ted Kennedy's FRONT seat than died at the hands of guards at Abu-Ghraib.Kerry worked the system in Vietnam with non life threatening injuries to get out after 4 mos and then stated in Congress under oath that he was a war criminal and had committed atrocities. Hmmm, and he was such a nice boy. As far as my AZ compound goes, I'd guess you'll never know how nice it is since you can't get out of SF without a GPS and detailed map. As far as Bush goes he should've snubbed the NAACP, He was invited there in 2000 and afterwards they ran attack ads against him so where was the sense that he should go? I would've done the same thing. Mfume and his ilk are just as bad if not worse than the corporate fatcats, they can't abide good race relations or they may need to work for a living. So long as there's enmity they can provide their brand of leadership.. I am sooo happy you take world politics so seriously, too bad, when Osama comes for you I bet you go to the UN and ask them to help. The world has taken our aid for YEARS and then we need their help and what did we get in return? Seems you've overlooked the Oil for Food snafu, run by the UN and administered to their great delight. Lots of Luck to you. As far as the Supremes having zero input, when did you land? They set the entire tone of the legal system. In case you haven't yet seen this on the Alphabet networks, BTW it's no surprise, there is a push to extend the laws of the US across the globe. here's a hint: It's not the conservative lawyers pushing for this. Why else would we want to have those poor downtroddens in Gitmo in US courts? See the title above? Follow the money. So get a life and work to think with more than 3 brain cells working in unison. Next time you want to insult someone you should read up on the subject. It's so nice discussing in a civil manner, matters that affect all the people of the US with such a diseased mentality as you obviously have. I am so happy that you are truly so worldly and can share your insights with the rest of us mere mortals. Have a great day, and come Nov when Dubya, as you so playfully called him, wins the election you can then WHINE for 4 more years. That's so nice, it'll give you something to occupy your time. You know what I like about George? He doesn't give a tinker's damn about what you or I think. He works to do what's best for the country. I really appreciate the discourse. Thanx for playin.
Re: Follow The Money... It's rather interesting how hard facts simply don't stick with your kind. Once again, let me break it down for you, GOP chimp-
#1 - Fact
So far 15 deaths at the hands of American soldiers in Abu Ghraib - fact. I'm certain there will be more to come as light is shed upon this situation. As it is well known in the military, orders of this magnitude come from up on high; so far it has stopped with Rumsfeld, who takes the blame but dodges the responsibility - which is a rather quaint way to perform your job - I wish I could get away with that. Ted Kennedy crashed his car and his passenger unfortunately drowned. The comparison of Chappaquiddick to U.S. Military torture and killing at Abu Ghraib is at it's best idiotic and uninformed and at it's worst, fucking retarded.
#2 - Fact
John Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star with V, three awards of the Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, Navy Presidential Unit Citation, Navy Unit Commendation Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, and the Vietnam Campaign Medal. Irrespective of these awards, as we all know, Vietnam was a horrible part of this country's history, a plethora of bad political maneuvers placed squarely on the backs of our young men and women in uniform. Bush and Cheney both requested NOT to serve period or not to serve overseas. Bush's Air National Guard records have been "lost", as the NY times reported last week - quite convienetly 5 months before the presidential election. However, it has been widely reported, before the unfortunate disappearance of Dubya's records that he was AWOL for 9 months, before his daddy, then the head of the CIA got him an Honorable discharge. Kerry is still carrying shrapnel in his hip, while Bush and Cheney avoided service. Once again, get your facts straight.
#3 - Fact
"Mfume and his ilk are just as bad if not worse than the corporate fatcats"
Yes. The NAACP is running around pillaging the consumer and creating massive offshore holdings so as not to pay domestic taxes... oops, nope, heh, that's Halliburton or Enron or WoldCom or Tyco... The NAACP is in fact holding Bush responsible for "No Child Left Behind", 2.9 Million lost jobs and an unemployment rate of almost 39% in most Black communities throughout the U.S. and how does Bush respond? By simply not meeting with them, and telling the GOP community that the NAACP are a bunch of meanies (not to mention, they're black...ewww). I'd prefer a president who welcomes discourse not avoids it.
#4 - Fact
Osama Bin laden will "come for me" - as in, yes al-qaeda will attack again, in large part because the Bush administration let him get away and focused all the country's attention to the mushroom cloud of another "evil doer", Saddam. And here we are, almost 3 years after 9/11, Afghanistan is being retaken by the warlords and the Taliban, opium crops are at an all time high, Iraq is a veritable vacuum for terrorists, almost 1,000 American soldiers dead, countless billions spent on the war on terror, countries we have called allies for over 250 years hate us, No WMD's, our -yours and mine- civil liberties have been curtailed by our government and the economy, no matter what kinda shine Allen Greenspan puts on it, is in the shitter - all in the name of freedom®. Let me ask you this - since when did the GOP become the party of huge overwhelming govt. power and regulation? You little monkeys have always been small govt. big business - how can you stand this, if you call yourself a republican? Cheers idiot, good to hear from you again.
P.S. And remind me again of what your generic conservative babble has to do with the topic of the Australian file trader? C'mon champ stay on course here...
Re: Follow The Money... Ebone,
You are absolutely correct there were allegedly 10 deaths at Abu-Ghraib! However I have seen the Nick Berg video; I have seen the Daniel Pearl video; I have seen the video of the four Americans massacred, their body parts hung from a bridge to burn. I have watched them not because theyre enjoyable, but because they remind me we are fighting a battle for humanity more than for any alleged democracy in the Middle East. Its nearly impossible to give a damn about the nude pyramid which you declare as "torture" and the guy on the leash and his alleged humiliation. It certainly seems that there's a bit of divide between definitions don't you think? You call Abu-Ghraib torture, I don't agree in the least when youve seen a man scream until the exact moment his head is removed from his body. Did you get a degree? You may want to request a refund because from this page it looks like they took you for a long ride.
Why is it that if it's Kerry it's he did this and that? Never alleged? Bush is alleged to have been AWOL, has this been reviewed in a court and I missed it, hmmm need to get my TV checked. I find it very funny that you believe that the Millionaire Kerry will welcome discourse, what a crock. He's so busy NOT making up his mind how will you ever tell?
As far as Enron and the others go wasn't that whole gig promulgated on Billy's watch? Oh I forgot your WORLD View doesn't include the ability to remember the years Billy was in the Whitehouse... I am very happy you care what the world thinks of the US, you're such a considerate citizen we should all bask in your aura... Personally, I care not one whit what the "worldview" is of the USA, they're so filled with jealousy they can't handle the intrinsic greatness of America. If we're so bad how come you haven't left for Paris? I am sure you'd be so much happier in France with all those nice snotty people. Or do they remind you of yourself? Do you really believe the French are our ally? You're a bigger knucklehead than I initially contemplated, even for a smarmy Liberal, you can't be so stupid or thick. You have obviously never been out of country or your "world view" would be moderated, oh I forgot, we see Liberals like you and the immediate thought of Mushroom comes to mind. Just remember to keep your mouth shut here in Arizona, we don't like your kind and any real citizen will make sure that you get mebbe 3 words out then who know? Could be even uglier than Paris. I perceive you're the kind that would sell the US out to the UN in a heartbeat. The kind that doesn't have the balls to defend the country and work to make it right. The kind that cheers Moore and his ilk. Really, you must sure be proud of yourself! All fat and happy in the P.R.CA. working to make sure that Mexifornia becomes a reality in your lifetime. The real problem with a puke like you is the diseases you spread, and I'm not speaking of flatulence you Pinhead.
Re: Follow The Money... Lol - for a second there I thought you were the cabin boy for Fox news, or on second thought maybe just the pastry girl that wipes the crumbs off of sean hannity's luscious lips.
Love it or leave it - great motto; it's catchy, totally original and it just has a FABULOUS snap to it. Well I'll tell you what, jerky, the assault weapons ban is almost up - maybe once that happens you can unlock your arsenal and head over to Iraqistanarabia and cap yersself some nice islaminac trophies - "That'll look right nice in the double-wide, jus' over that there faux mantle."
And yet you still can't get your facts straight. You are too funny - just like any other GOP altar boy: "repeat it until their ears bleed, and then they'll believe it's the truth." Were you a hard lean in the schoolhouse? That's ok, cause America has a president who's just right for you...
And again, what does your homogenized GOP prattling have to do with the Australian file trader...? Focus, c'mon, you can do it.
P.S. - if you get out and mingle with other people (which does not include your television), it will give you a good sense of cultural relativity and larger social patholog...
...um, how can I put this? - "it'll make it so' as yer not afeard that brown peoples is gonna come clobber ya, seein' as yer arian and all"
somebody living in a cave,
especially somebody who belonged
to a prehistoric cave-dwelling community
somebody who lives alone and
has little to do with other people, especially
somebody considered to be antisocial or
| |shadowshackstrange daysPremium
the sky is falling So, when some terrorist gets his hands on an ICBM and blasts a US city from his home country (a country that does not make it illegal to shoot missiles at the US) he should not be held responsible because he's not an American citizen, nor did he fire the missiles from US soil? ICBMs are remotely operated and destructive tools, same as the servers this guy used to distribute pirated software. What if Australian laws do not view the offense and commensurate penalties as seriously as our laws do. The internet has changed the rules of the game significantly. A fact understood by this guy very well (you don't see him setting up shop here).
You get bombarded with spam everyday (if you don't filter it out) offering everything from pornography to penis enlargers to cheap (read: pirated) software. Child pornography is illegal in the US but may not be in the countries where such spam originates. If we had the opportunity to prosecute a mass spammer of child pornography should we pass it up because he didn't commit the act on our soil, knowing his country of origin would never prosecute because he broke no law there? Spamming pyramid schemes originating overseas, in a country where they are not illegal, are fraud when the spam is read in the US by someone who obliges then realizes they've been swindled. If a virulent, malicious virus causing millions of dollars in damage is sent by some kid (or terrorist) from a country with laws that view such acts as a minor crime (or no crime at all) is not punishable by US law, it may embolden copycats and severely affect the US economy. Should we not have the right to protect our interests abroad? That is what the argument is all about. It is not about your disdain of the entertainment industry or the software giants making more money than seems fair. Its about protecting our interests using established laws consistently.
I dislike the DMCA as much as you probably do. But somehow it was passed into law. The RIAA has consistently twisted and abused the law to intimidate parents and children, p2p network operators, software engineers, the scientific community, the public at large, etc. I think the RIAA is evil and the DMCA is a horrible law. But make no mistake, this is not just about the DMCA, the entertainment industry or software giants.
Please deposit any pennies for my thoughts in my tool points.
And Americans wonder why everyone hates them. You Americans wonder why most of the world hates you. Here's your answer. Of course, the current Australian government is as much to blame for kowtowing, but government ministers come and go, where as the enmity of the people lasts a long time.
So sit back, be smug, and come forward with the old 'whatcha gonna do about it, we're America!' line. Then one day you'll wake up, and discover that what the rest of the world did about it was form a massive network of alliances with China, which will by that stage have the world's biggest economy and biggest military.
That is when America will reap the reward for all of the ill will that it has generated. Even America's closest allies (Britain, Australia) can't stand it anymore. With friends like Americans, who needs enemies.