 neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA Reviews:
 ·QuantumVoice
·SIP Global Phone
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Finally It will be interesting to see what actual results/performance will be when companies like Wildblue finally begin service. Even if its Ka band, latency will be still be the problem for interactive applications with the approx .5 second additional delay. Remember with Satellite you can't beat the speed of light and no matter how bright the light is you can't shine it through a brick wall for example in a downpour of rain. | |
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 |  OptimizedPremium,Mod
join:2001-05-03
Ringwood, NJ |  Re: Finally
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| Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| said by neftv:
It will be interesting to see what actual results/performance will be when companies like Wildblue finally begin service. Even if its Ka band, latency will be still be the problem for interactive applications with the approx .5 second additional delay. Remember with Satellite you can't beat the speed of light and no matter how bright the light is you can't shine it through a brick wall for example in a downpour of rain.
wouldn't the high latency be like using an older pc on those applications anyway? I think most of those people who need it would be more interested in the speeds for moving big files I would guess.
Rather interesting though.
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This package does not contain a winner... | |
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|  jasboydMr. LuntPremium
join:2004-05-06
Pine Mountain, GA | said by neftv:
-snip- Remember with Satellite you can't beat the speed of light and no matter how bright the light is you can't shine it through a brick wall for example in a downpour of rain. -snip-
Yup. I got rid of Primestar back in the day because when a bad storm would wake us up in the middle of the night and we would turn on the Weather Channel to see what was happening; we wouldn't have a signal for all of the cloud cover. | |
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| | neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA | Re: Finally Well I still got Dish Network and it really takes a heavy downpour to make it go away. I got my Dish so well peaked using a spectrum analyzer from my work. | |
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| | | | said by jasboyd:
said by neftv:
-snip- Remember with Satellite you can't beat the speed of light and no matter how bright the light is you can't shine it through a brick wall for example in a downpour of rain. -snip-
Yup. I got rid of Primestar back in the day because when a bad storm would wake us up in the middle of the night and we would turn on the Weather Channel to see what was happening; we wouldn't have a signal for all of the cloud cover.
i never had primestar but i have had dish and directv and i have never had it go our for more than a minute or 2 even during bad snow storms. maybe you had a bad install or something. and if all it took was a downpour of rain to block the signal there would no be so many subscibers to dish and directv. | |
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|  fireflierCoffee. . .Need CoffeePremium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo | Anybody happen to know why nobody has yet put a LEO broadband service satellite out there? These other services I presume are all geosynchronous satellites and are waaaay out there which is why the latency comes in. With LEO, it wouldn't be nearly as bad, so I'm wondering why no LEOs? Is it because you'd need several to cover the U.S. and canada since they're closer in?
I've read the Iridium project used LEOs to get around the latency which made phone communications somewhat annoying.
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My wife keeps complaining I never listen to her... or something like that. | |
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| | JonR800Premium
join:2003-08-06
Farmington, MI | Re: Finally Several is an undertatement. Deploying a LEO sat network is expensive. At this point it doesn't make economic sense. | |
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| | | Here is a quick update and a some answers to some of the questions out there.
Most of the technical questions can be answered by doing simple searches on the net for Ka-Band in general so I am not going to duplicate that info here.
Since this is new 'commercial' level Ka-Band high speed multimedia and internet services, there will be a period of breaking in the systems and getting the bugs out when it becomes available the end of 2004. This by far will be the most turn-key and easy to use mobile and fixed technology than what is currently out there like Direcway, DatStorms, and StarBands.
I have found information about the most asked question about the latency involved. Most of the other posters here are correct in that you cant get faster the the speed of light however the Ka-Band is pretty close. Which allows us to get around 200-milliseconds of latency round trip of about 3-4 hops. The popular belief is that because the new sat technology will give us massive amounts of bandwidth capability both on the download and upload, that does not help the fact you are still held back by the physics of the speed of light. It will seem like things are moving very fast however you will still have the minimum of 200ms of latency or so and not counting extra hops around the net.
With that being said, there is a great opportunity for us to get access to this technology in a short period of time. Right now we are offering the FIRST certifications and industry level training plus SBCA Level 3 certification in Nov 2004. If you are in the state of TX or are going to be in the area for this event, please contact us for more info or visit our site. »www.datasatplus.com
Cheers
John | |
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| neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA Reviews:
·QuantumVoice
·SIP Global Phone
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: What is Ka Band? Ka band is frequency of 18 to 40 Ghz. It's practically light. What makes this Satellite so special is that it can be very directional in patterns over North America so that there can be multiple regions or zones using the same frequencies if they wanted for different purposes. With internet they can put more zones so to speak and therefore one would think there be more bandwidth for each zone. | |
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| | | Aside from the technology, this also opens up some competition in the satellite broadband market. Until now, your choices were Dish or DirecWay. Neither are a very good. Better than dial up...well, most would say yes, atleast on the download side. But far from being technology for say, rural farmers. (or any non-techie's) Lots of bugs in the hardware and software, high latency, high up front (or long term) hardware costs, etc. And believe if or not, even after buying the hardware, the monthly service rivals even the most expensive wired options, while giving the user speeds that would make most of us with true broadband laugh. (128k max upload, I believe most are lucky to break 70k.)
And then there is the download cap.....Use your connection too much in a 4 hour period, you really are slapped down to dial up speeds for awhile.
Have a read through our satellite forum if you want to learn more.
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AMD A64 3200+/ MSI K8N Neo/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ Gainward GF4 4600/Gainward 5200PCI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler | |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Hmmm This might not be too bad for our rural friends that don't have other options. From their FAQ:
How fast is this service? How does it compare to cable modems and DSL? Does it have the capability to be faster?
WildBlue's always-on broadband Internet connection provides speeds that are comparable to DSL and cable modem service. At launch, we will offer downstream speeds of up to 1.5 Mbps - more than 25 times faster than today's 56k dial-up speeds and upstream speeds of up to 256K which exceed most current satellite broadband providers. WildBlue's high bandwidth also opens up a window to a world of rich content that is largely unavailable through dial-up modems.
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Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out. TheTechPub | |
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| neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA | Re: Hmmm Yea for the rural areas this service may be good since it's their only option (which is meant for them) next to dial up if they have that as an option. | |
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 shanerPremium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB | Nice.quote:
Telesat is Canada's national satellite communications company. Anik means "little brother" in the Inuit language. BSS built Telesat's first satellite, Anik A1, in 1972. Two additional Anik A series satellites, all Boeing 333 models, were also built in the early 1970s. Boeing built the Anik C series in the late 1970s and, along with Canada's Spar Aerospace, built the Anik D satellites in the early 1980s.
The C and D series were both Boeing 376 model satellites, which were state-of-the-art spacecraft at the time, with about 1 kilowatt of power and 16 to 24 active transponders. The Anik F series was introduced in 1998 and is the first in the Anik line to use the Boeing 702 spacecraft. Anik F1, a Boeing 702 that was launched in 2000, operates with 84 active transponders.
With 35 years of engineering and technical experience, Telesat is the world's longest-standing commercial satellite operator. The company made history in 1972 with the launch of the first domestic commercial communications satellite in geostationary orbit. Telesat now provides telecommunications and broadcast distribution services in the Americas and is a leading consultant, operator and partner in satellite ventures around the globe. Telesat is a wholly owned subsidiary of BCE Inc., one of the world's leading telecommunications companies.
Just posted to offer a shameless plug for the people I work for.  ;)
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»www.fiberal.ca »www.canadianally.com »Canadian Wireless FAQ | |
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| | Speeds? How fast will broadband speeds be? | |
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 b_zenPremium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO | Koukou??? It's Kourou dammit... | |
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| | Europe brings broadband to North America! This is a good thing since north american corporations refuse to deploy! If the service and price are good,then I'm in! fu^ck Comcast and Verizon! | |
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|  chd176
join:2003-01-10
Winfield, AL
 ·CenturyLink
| Re: Europe brings broadband to North America! it would be CRAZY to drop a "real" broadband connection (DSL,cable,wireless,ect.) in favor of satellite. The ping times along make it feel as slow as dialup sometimes when not using a proxy. I had Direcway a few months and in the beginning it was ok and then the service slowly began to degrade...I feel this is what is going to happen with Wildblue as well...but mabey they can make better choices than Direcway and Starband. | |
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|  Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | said by huk44:
If the service and price are good,then I'm in! fu^ck Comcast and Verizon!
No you probably will not do that. First off the price is surely going to be higher.
Plus, as hinted to by other posters - SAT is HIGH LATENCY.
What does that mean? No online games, VOIP, or time sensitive interactive programs. This also makes web browsing awkward - pages do not load instantly like one cable/dsl - normally there is a large pause and then chunks of the page come in all at once. This is due to the 600-800ms delay with high orbit sats (most cable and DSL have 5-10ms of delay).
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Want an OC3? Go to college! Washington State University OC3 MRTG | |
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 dslwanterIt's comingPremium
join:2002-12-16
Niles, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Sounds good. Sounds good but will it be reliable? Will it things from space interfere the with the connection? And more importantly, how much will is cost a month?
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Broadband allows me to run my own internet radio station, »www.thebomb102.tk, something I could've only dreamed of. | |
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 TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | EXCELLENT! This is good. It'll provide broadband at 1.5mbit at the start to North Americans, specifically rural areas with no options. This will also be good for people in urban areas with horrible cable service and/or no or slow DSL.
Even though we're getting FTTP here in the next few years, the FTTP won't be for rural customers. This is good for them, even if it's only going to be around 1.5mbit (FTTP will be up to 100mbit), it'll provide enough bandwidth for the time being while new idea's for rural broadband are researched.
-Tzale | |
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 AuthorityObama Biden '12
join:2000-03-29
Woodland Hills, CA | Will it cover Mexico? Anyone know if the coverage hits Mexico? | |
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| TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | Re: Will it cover Mexico? said by Authority:
Anyone know if the coverage hits Mexico?
Don't know.... But Mexico is part of North America, whether or not this company thinks North America includes Mexico or just the United States and Canada, I don't know....
-Tzale | |
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| | AuthorityObama Biden '12
join:2000-03-29
Woodland Hills, CA | Re: Will it cover Mexico? said by Tzale:
Don't know.... But Mexico is part of North America
Yes - it is. The coverage maps are probably out there... | |
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ced06
join:2004-03-12
Towanda, PA | Latency? quote:
The WildBlue system is engineered to help offset the impact of latency. However, there is a delay of about a quarter second as the signal travels up to the satellite and back down to the ground. For most Internet applications this latency does not affect performance, however, there are some applications like voice over IP, or real-time interactive gaming, where latency will have a noticeable effect on performance over the WildBlue network.
Is this 250ms with routing latency figured in? If so, 250ms is quite playable in a fps, assuming that it is a rather stable 250ms. | |
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| donaldkPremium
join:2000-10-19
Thunder Bay, ON Reviews:
·Eastlink Cable
| Re: Latency? Satellite has a minimum of 250 - 500 ms not counting the routing... the new Inmarsat phones that the Canadian military just installed on the ships on has a delay of 0.5 to 2 seconds since it links through France Telecom (IIRC..Vodaphone) with horrid routing. It is a nice touch that they put these phones on but the delay makes a normal phone conversation with my mother seem like I am talking to brick wall so I only use it when necessary. Usually I can wait till the next port of call and use a payphone dialing the home 888 number I got. | |
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| | | | Re: Latency? Well,
If they can launch another 702 satellite, better coverage areas, and overlapping redundancy.
To increase performance, the USA DSC3 Satellite has many Flights in obrit, as well as the USA Milstar I and II in addition to its redundant backbones. This is still not enough. High speed multiplexers can incorporate Doppler effect, once again, still not enough.
I am sure the 702 satellite uses a similar Cross Links technology similar to the Milstar II satellite. Other countries use this similar technology.
Instead of having to beam down to ground stations which does cause delays or beam coverage issues caused by the obrit of the earth etc. Traffic can be sped up if the Satellite beams to another satellite line of site in while orbit.
They are also moving typical satellite technology from circuit switching to packet switching. So imagine if the Satellites use OSPF in orbit. Some of these satellites have high speed multiplexers and routers on board to help cut the delay, about 10 to 20ms of delay can be saved.
There is a new move however, to go to light transmission. But the effects of scintillation could be a problem over long distances. I could imagine through the use of light, that the satellite could maybe at most offer 60ms of delay.
Be patient, this is where it will all go. Optical transmission.
As it is KaBand (SHF) Super High Frequency is used on a lot of military and civilian satellite terminals.
I have worked with the L-3 USC-60A and the Harris Corporation LMST Satellite terminals which are both capable of 10Mb/sec bandwidth in hub spoke configuration. 10Mb/sec total network bandwidth is not too shabby. You should see what Ka and Ku band terminals Viasat and TriPoint Global Vertix have in store.
The satellites are evolving and providing better accuracy, equipment range, response time and redundancy.
As previously launched satellites degrade in peformance from the effects of the solar weather, the satellites will be replenished by satellites with capabilities of 2 to fiver different satelites all into one. 1 launch may have full capabilities. 2nd launch may have much more, but less weight. 3 launch will have all 2 and much much more.
Be patient. There will be great advances. | |
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What is Ka Band?
