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story category WildBlue Yonder
Slow starter finally starts
(old news - 07:42PM Monday Jul 19 2004)
tags: satellite · business
When you haven't actually provided any real services yet, and your 2004 press releases sound roughly the same as your 2001 press releases, it's hard to call you a "start-up" with a straight face. But slow starting satellite broadband provider WildBlue finally did actually start moving today, announcing that they'd launched their very first satellite payload on their quest to bring affordable satellite broadband to the masses. According to CNET, WildBlue service starts at $49.95 a month for a 512kbps down / 256kbps up connection. Users also have to pay $300 and $400 for a rooftop dish installation.

Related:
  1. TiVo Wins Another Echostar Patent Ruling
  2. HughesNet Promises New Bird In 2012
  3. Dish Settles Do Not Call Violation Complaints
  4. WildBlue Adds More Capacity
  5. DirecTV Offers NFL Games Via Broadband
  6. Which Telecom Giants Will Merge Next?
  7. ViaSat Buys Wild Blue for $568 Million
  8. DirecTV Sale To Baby Bell Rumor Heats Up (Again)
Forums » WildBlue Yonder
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Toguro

join:2003-10-23
Ottawa, IL

cool

cool

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:

Re: cool

might have been cool in 2001.. now it's trash.

obeythelaw
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Bayonne, NJ
·DIRECTV

Re: cool

said by Mike See Profile:
might have been cool in 2001.. now it's trash.

Yeah, I mean, between cable and DSL is there a big need for satellite broadband? Besides, if its anything like DirecTV's former DirecWay, it's liable to be a POS.

Toguro

join:2003-10-23
Ottawa, IL

Re: cool

Cable and DSL are not available every where So yes it is cool don't forget there is more to this country than where you live

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

said by obeythelaw See Profile:
said by Mike See Profile:
might have been cool in 2001.. now it's trash.

Yeah, I mean, between cable and DSL is there a big need for satellite broadband? Besides, if its anything like DirecTV's former DirecWay, it's liable to be a POS.

I dunno. If I lived someplace that left DSL as an imposibility and either wasn't served by cable or was served by a lame cable provider, I'd be interested in the service.

-tom
--
"There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't."
"That's only 2 types of people, moron"

Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea

said by Mike See Profile:
might have been cool in 2001.. now it's trash.

?
--
»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online

said by Mike See Profile:
might have been cool in 2001.. now it's trash.

It's not trash. It's for RURAL customers in North America. So people who can't get DSL or Cable, or the service really sucks this is worth it for them. For you and me, who have access to good broadband we don't need this. I am lucky to live in the New York Metro area, with OOL dirt cheap.

-Tzale

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:

How is it different?

Just wondering, how is this different from existing satellite providers who advertise faster speeds than the 512kbps down / 256kbps up? I mean, its nice that they've gotten started, but this isn't anything new.

I also have a hard time believing that they'll be able to deliver 256 kilobits up...

Anyways, Satellite still isn't ready for me, since it is way to laggy for gaming.

Microwave still takes time to travel through air, then vacuum, then air, then traditional networking, then back.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
Sinclair80

join:2004-04-30
29871

Re: How is it different?

The pricing structure hasn't even been released yet according to their own Website.Must be 3 year old pricing.
______________________________________________________
What do you plan on charging for your service?

While pricing won't be finalized until the service is introduced, we expect that WildBlue will feature an affordable flat monthly fee for an unlimited broadband, always-on Internet service. Monthly pricing is expected to be lower than satellite broadband services that use Ku-band CONUS beam technology and comparable to cable modem or DSL service.

How fast is this service? How does it compare to cable modems and DSL? Does it have the capability to be faster?

WildBlue's always-on broadband Internet connection provides speeds that are comparable to DSL and cable modem service. At launch, we will offer downstream speeds of up to 1.5 Mbps - more than 25 times faster than today's 56k dial-up speeds and upstream speeds of up to 256K which exceed most current satellite broadband providers. WildBlue's high bandwidth also opens up a window to a world of rich content that is largely unavailable through dial-up modems.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
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join:2003-02-18
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Re: How is it different?

said by Sinclair80 See Profile:
At launch, we will offer downstream speeds of up to 1.5 Mbps - more than 25 times faster than today's 56k dial-up speeds and upstream speeds of up to 256K which exceed most current satellite broadband providers.

Um... In the news post it says 512 kilobits down, hardly 1.5 megabits...

I'd hardly call 512 kilobits per second "comparable to DSL and cable modem service". DSL, maybe, Cable, no way.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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join:2002-10-04
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·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: How is it different?

said by Nerdtalker See Profile:
I'd hardly call 512 kilobits per second "comparable to DSL and cable modem service". DSL, maybe, Cable, no way.
512 beats iDSL or cable around the time everyone gets home from school or work.

-tom
--
"There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't."
"That's only 2 types of people, moron"

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
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join:2003-02-18
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Re: How is it different?

said by nixen See Profile:
said by Nerdtalker See Profile:
I'd hardly call 512 kilobits per second "comparable to DSL and cable modem service". DSL, maybe, Cable, no way.
512 beats iDSL or cable around the time everyone gets home from school or work.
DSL? I don't know. Cable, no way.

I have cable, and what you've just said is one of the biggest cable myths/rumors/falsities. Satellite, DSL, and Cable are all shared connections!! When overloaded, any service slows to a grind.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
Goldengamego
Premium
join:2004-02-22
Okemos, MI

Re: How is it different?

said by Nerdtalker See Profile:
said by nixen See Profile:
said by Nerdtalker See Profile:
I'd hardly call 512 kilobits per second "comparable to DSL and cable modem service". DSL, maybe, Cable, no way.
512 beats iDSL or cable around the time everyone gets home from school or work.
DSL? I don't know. Cable, no way.

I have cable, and what you've just said is one of the biggest cable myths/rumors/falsities. Satellite, DSL, and Cable are all shared connections!! When overloaded, any service slows to a grind.

I have something you should read;)

»cable-dsl.home.att.net/#Asymmetry
--
Because Goldengamegod won't fit:p

e144539

join:2000-11-02
San Angelo, TX
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL

[OT] The link doesn't work right but thanks anyway

That link just goes to the top, so I'll quote it.
But I want to thank you because I had never seen anything about fixing Win2k/XP DNS 'negative caching'
It would have been more useful when I was on Cox and their DNS was consistently going down. I would always stop/start the DNS client, not even knowing about the ipconfig /flushdns option LOL

Besides, I think more people will read it this way.
quote:

How the Upstream Cap can affect Downstream Speed

Although downstream speeds are usually high (typically in the range of 768
Kbps to 1.5 Mbps), consumer-grade Cable or DSL service often has an upstream cap
(artificial limit) of 128 Kbps, which is only about 4 times faster than a V.90
(56K) dial-up modem (limited to about 31 Kbps upstream), and a fraction of the downstream speed.

What is not generally well-known is that the upstream cap can also affect
the downstream speed
-- if the upstream is saturated by uploading (e.g.,
sending a large PowerPoint file to the boss, or running a Napster
or other public service), the downstream will drop to about the same speed.
This is due to a weakness in the basic TCP Internet protocol, not
Cable or DSL per se, and not the service provider.

Cable Internet is more vulnerable to this problem than DSL. Unlike DSL,
where each subscriber has a dedicated connection to the head-end (DSLAM),
the Cable Internet upstream path to the head-end (CMTS)
is shared by all subscribers on a given cable segment. If that upstream gets
saturated, which might be caused by only a relatively few subscribers, downstream speeds
take a big drop for all subscribers on that segment.

As an illustrative example, consider a DOCSIS
cable segment with 4 upstream channels per downstream channel, and 1000
subscribers (a recommended maximum).


    •The upstream channels can be anywhere from 160 Kbps (200 kHz

    QPSK
    ) to 10 Mbps (3.2 MHz QAM
    16), with 800 Khz QPSK perhaps the most common in practice, giving an upstream channel capacity of 640
    Kbps.
    •The downstream channel can be 27 Mbps (QAM 64) or 36 Mbps (QAM
    256), with 27 Mbps (QAM 64) perhaps the most common in practice.

The aggregate upstream capacity of 4 channels would be about 2.5 Mbps, as compared to downstream capacity of 27
Mbps. If the upstream saturates, the downstream rate will drop to about the same speed, a dramatic slowdown of about

90%
(2.5 Mbps as compared to 27 Mbps).

Even with cable modems capped to 128 Kbps upstream, 2.5 Mbps
upstream capacity can handle only 20 (2.5 Mbps / 128 Kbps) simultaneously active modems before saturation. That's
generally not a problem if cable modem usage is typically (1)
infrequent, (2) downstream [e.g., web surfing], and (3) interactive [e.g., fetch-use]. The system can break down if those conditions are
not met.

This makes it easier to see why certain Cable Internet
providers condemn continuous
use of upstream (e.g., running a popular public service) as "abuse" -- each such
subscriber consumes capacity normally allocated for 1000 / 20 = 50
subscribers. Worse, there's a threshold effect: If the upstream is running at (say) 80% of capacity with typical subscribers, it takes only
4 (out of 1000) heavy upstream users at 128 Kbps to drive the upstream into saturation, thereby slowing downstream to a crawl for
all
subscribers on that segment. (Exact numbers, of course, depend on actual channel
numbers and speeds.)

For more information, see RFC
3449 "TCP
Performance Implications of Network Asymmetry"
.


--


Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:

Re: [OT] The link doesn't work right but thanks an

Okay, this is really off topic, but that article you cited is common knowledge.

Any service over-saturated exhibits the same effect! It is part of how TCP/IP works!

If you really want to debate the "shared downstream slowdown effect", which is really actually true, and the part where it says Cable is more vulnerable, (which it is not), start a thread in the Cable forum.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online

said by Nerdtalker See Profile:

Anyways, Satellite still isn't ready for me, since it is way to laggy for gaming.


No offense, but there are more important things for broadband to be delivered to rural customers then for gaming. If you truly are a gamer, and want broadband that will work for you out in the middle of nowhere, I'm sorry but you better move... . You can wait until a good method is developed. While FTTP/FTTH is being rolled out now by the telcos, I doubt it'll be installed in places where 1 person lives every mile or more. Satellite is good for these applications, this satellite covers the entire continent (USA, Canada and maybe Mexico). Sure it's laggy, but it's better than 56k (usually more like 28.8k) in rural places to get stuff done. Gaming just can't be done good with satellite, but the much more important things can now be done .

-Tzale

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:

Re: How is it different?

said by Tzale See Profile:
said by Nerdtalker See Profile:

Anyways, Satellite still isn't ready for me, since it is way to laggy for gaming.


but the much more important things can now be done .
True, but that depends on your definition of what's important... :D:D:o

Peace.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA

Re: How is it different?

A little latency won't hurt pr0n downloading much at all.

-- Rob
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network

Rfsjr2
Shop on Top
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Ferndale, WA
clubs:

A little competition would be nice.

But until I can actually call and order service, WB is still vaporware. At least there is some tangible proof of progress at this point besides press releases.
--
*Frank* EL SRS. DW4000. G4R 970_.42. W2K Pro SP4. DAK421_P15_C1. Wired LAN, 3 clients.
neftv

join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA

they scaled back

Originally Wildblue marketed 3.0 then 1.5 and now 512.
Anyway Satellite internet will only be good for those with no other choice.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:

Re: they scaled back

said by neftv See Profile:
Originally Wildblue marketed 3.0 then 1.5 and now 512.
Anyway Satellite internet will only be good for those with no other choice.

I agree, only people out in the middle of nowhere would (should) consider satellite.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey

Evil_Icon
Digital Pimp

join:2003-02-24
Bossier City, LA

Re: they scaled back

I think its good for the peeps that live in locations were that is the only option.If I was one of those peeps I would move if possible.
--
More upload please!

netwire
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Mooresboro, NC
·RoadRunner Cable
·Millenicom
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Vonage

erm

The installation and service fee is ridicules, and I doubt they will find many people willing to shovel out such money. Even for those out of reach to DSL and Cable would be unlikely to go this route just for a high-latency service that's a little faster than dial-up.
--
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neferefre

@mi.ch

Re: erm

No, it's significantly faster than dial-up, and the fees are high, but not something that's going to scare off people that would normally pay for DSL or cable.

They've actually made tcp/ip over satellite quite tolerable and in many places, it's not so easy to notice you're not on a terrestrial link. You'd be surprised, and you can thank companies like MTN for making it a possibility.

Older systems like the original DirecPC were simply trash.

But then, you're a ham radio operator, you already knew this because you know _everything_ about RF.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo

Re: erm

said by neferefre:
You'd be surprised, and you can thank companies like MTN for making it a possibility.

I have used MTN before. Worked on a cruise ship for three months. It was crap. Even when in port and not moving it was slow as hell.

rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
huh? There's simply no way around the physics of radio wave propagation and the distances involved. I SSH into servers at work from home all the time. If I had to do that all the time over satellite, I'd be spending a lot of time just waiting.

Gosh

@206.21.x.x

False Advertising

OK...isn't this some sort of false advertising. I remember when WildBlue first started talking about doing this and their site claimed that their would provide 2-way satellite Internet service that would have comparable speeds and price of Cable and DSL providers (without the huge upfront investment cost that companies like DirectWay have.) How is their current speed vs. pricing structure comparable at all with Cable and DSL. And $300+ dish on the roof isn't a huge up-front cost.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that it will provide service to millions of people who cannot get BB, but please don't entice people with such false statements and then turn around financially flog them. Deceptive practices and questionable business integrity before they even start offering service. I wish them luck....though I am sure they'll make millions. After all, how many companies can we name that really puts integrity above profits. Why should they when consumers only have one choice.

rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:

Re: False Advertising

said by Gosh:
Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that it will provide service to millions of people who cannot get BB, but please don't entice people with such false statements and then turn around financially flog them.
IMHO, shady business practices abound in the high-tech world. Any entity that tells you your modem, router, or cell phone is "free" with a straight face is either slimy, stupid, or both. Of course these things aren't free. In fact, they have significant costs associated with them (it's not like they're giving out gumballs or something). I would much rather have them give me a lower monthly rate and tell me I'm going to be spending $100 on a modem, and put the costs exactly where they should be.

I remember this from years ago with cell phones. Once your initial contract was up, where the fees they have collected have paid for the electronics they gave you "for free," you think they're lowering the rates? HAH! yeah, right...not a chance. Or why don't the cell phone/DSL/cable companies do like Verizon (and probably others) do with establishment of new service, and offer a 12 month payment plan? Again, it shifts the costs to where they should be instead of perpetrating the falsehood that electronics are "free." I'd like to pay $10/month for a year rather than to pay a higher rate in perpetuity.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here
Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!
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