 
woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | Hmmmmm........  | |
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amenite
The Soylent - It's People
Premium
join:2002-11-21
Ridgewood, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Instability threatened by spyware? quote:
In late 2003 Dell took an image hit when they told support techs to avoid helping customers with spyware, even if customer system instability was being affected.
Maybe needs rephrasing?
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Time is an abstract concept invented by carbon based life forms to monitor their constant decay.-Thunderclese | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI | Re: Instability threatened by spyware? Based on my experience with a Dell laptop, maybe it is okay as written.  | |
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aol newbie
@aol.com
| I agree with the statement "- There's an increasing trend of companies releasing public relation stunts dressed up as removal tools - that do little more than protect marketing relationships with spyware vendors." I find it very suspicious that the free adware from aol finds nothing time after time, when others that I use like Spy Sweeper let me know about stuff that was there I didn't know about. Even if all a Spyware programme finds are low-risk cookies, its still nice to be informed that they are there, where they are and what they are doing by your Spyware programme, and not just have them ignored as something "the yokels don't need to worry about!" | |
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nozero
Eschew Obfuscation
Premium,MVM,ExMod 2003-06
join:1999-12-29
InnerSanctum
clubs: | May others follow... Good, I hope other PC manufacturers do the same.
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mwf
join:2000-11-26
Granite Quarry, NC | DUDE! you need a penicillin shot! | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Why? Why should Dell take an image hit for not helping customers with spyware?
Why should Dell now take the time to create a website and offer popup stoppers and spyware software?
It's pointless.
I have a buddy of mine who just got a computer. I took my time to teach him the menaces of the internet. I explained spyware, adware, popups, malware, blah blah blah. I installed popupstopper. I installed adaware. I showed him how to use each. I showed him how to update adaware.
So far, in the last 2 months I have had to go over to his house three times to fix a "slow computer". I find the same thing each time. Active-X turned back on, popupstopper turned off, and adaware finding 200+ instances clearly not being run at least once a week.
Please explain to me, why I, or Dell, should support people like this that refuse to listen or learn from their mistakes?
It's a waste of time, and in Dell's case a waste of money and resources.
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. | |
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amenite
The Soylent - It's People
Premium
join:2002-11-21
Ridgewood, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: Why? Just start charging him $80/hour including travel time, and he'll either get the idea or continue being a schmuck, it's that simple.
edit> I mean, if I were a professional auto mechanic I wouldn't rope myself into free transmission repairs for my friends who can't stop doing neutral drops. Why should the computer be any different? Give them a freebie or two, then for the saps who can't/won't listen and learn it's pay as you go.
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Time is an abstract concept invented by carbon based life forms to monitor their constant decay.
-Thunderclese | |
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| | shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA | Re: Why? EXACTLY! I have a neighbor sharing my DSL (SPeakeasy) and this is the 2nd time i spent several hours on the machine. I am explaining what i found and then telling him next time it is going to cost him. | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
1 edit | Re: Why? _________________________________________________________
EXACTLY! I have a neighbor sharing my DSL (SPeakeasy) and this is the 2nd time i spent several hours on the machine. I am explaining what i found and then telling him next time it is going to cost him.
________________________________________________________
You are wasting your time talking with someone who doesn't want to listen. If it was me, if a person doesn't want to learn then pull the plug.
That is is the main reason why their is huge problem with zombie machines on the internet relaying spam. Most people on the internet don't want to learn about security because they think it's to complicated or it just doesn't interest them.
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»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX
| said by Wills  :
Please explain to me, why I, or Dell, should support people like this that refuse to listen or learn from their mistakes?
It's a waste of time, and in Dell's case a waste of money and resources.
I agree.
I work for a small Telco/ISP and a good 60-75% of the support calls that come in are spyware/adware/malware related. 9 times out of 10, we're giving computer lessons over the phone. It takes (and wastes) a lot of time explaining to someone over the phone 1) what spyware is, and 2) where they should go next to get rid of this stuff.
We are not staffed nor equipped to handle every single *ware problem that comes in step-by-step until the computer is squeaky clean. All we can do is give a brief overview of the problem, and where they should go next.
Yes, we piss some people off...probably a lot of people, in fact...but the time and money it would cost to deal with spyware (especially over the phone) is a whole lot more than the measly $15/$40/mo. we would lose should the customer get angry and decide to cancel their service.
P.S. We don't read from scripts here either. | |
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heels_fan
1.20.09 The start of Socialism
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN
| Re: Why? i too work for a small cable ISP. And I know exactly what your talking about. When I mean small, I talking we have around 5000 subscribers.
and your estimates are about right concerning the percentage of support calls regarding spyware.
But because we are over-building charter, we have to provide a higher level of support than Charter. Very often we have truck rolls to customers sites to help them clean spyware. And we do not charge the customers (this will probably change in the near future)
But the good thing is, our company is starting to have little classes offered to the public, to help educate, and inform the customer on various topics. One being viruses and spyware
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I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a man that rises and sleeps under the blanket of protection that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! | |
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| | blah194
join:2002-03-04
Lake Charles, LA | Amen to that. | |
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| dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Wills :
It's a waste of time, and in Dell's case a waste of money and resources.
Well, I expect they're making a business decision.
Either they lose money by offering a service to their 'uninformable' customers, or they lose money by not getting repeat business from those same customers and their friends.
There's no should/shouldn't in action here, beyond the great imperative to make a profit. | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
 ·Skype
| Your dilemma is pretty much why I've stopped touching other peoples' PCs when they have issues. I'll give them advice on apps to use and web site addresses to check out, but physically touching the PC? Forget it. Trying to train the average user on what they should and shouldn't do is a waste of time in most cases if there's no financial incentive for them to learn. I stopped working on people's PCs 3 years ago after helping someone set up home networking. I set it up on saturday. On monday they called and said "when you set up networking, it screwed up Excel". I went over, checked their event log and found that the error they were experiencing started on FRIDAY. This kind of cause-effect behavior happens all the time. After my experiences, I believe in the adage: "Do someone a favor and it becomes your job".
As far as going back to help the friend resolve the same issue time and time again, another adage comes to mind: "People can only take advantage of you if you let them." I'd rather have them pissed off at me than have to spend all my saturdays cleaning up after their blissful ignorance. In the days of DOS, issues were usually easy to resolve and seldom had complications. These days, you touch someone's PC and something completely unrelated screws up 4 months later, and guess who gets blamed? I'll advise for free, but I won't touch someone else's system.
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Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| _________________________________________________________
I have a buddy of mine who just got a computer. I took my time to teach him the menaces of the internet. I explained spyware, adware, popups, malware, blah blah blah. I installed popupstopper. I installed adaware. I showed him how to use each. I showed him how to update adaware.
_________________________________________________________
Maybe you should show him the dangers by port scanning his computer. This would open his eyes.
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»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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ParanoiaInc
join:2002-08-28
Tucker, GA | Dell (any PC maker) vs. Microsoft This IS amusing. If Microsoft tried to offer free software in its operating system to control/eliminate spyware, etc. they'd get blasted, both by the general public and by the department of justice. | |
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PinHead
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-19
The Dungeon
clubs: | Dell is in the forums now! If this is true, it looks like they are setting up specialized techs for spyware.
»180 search assistant
you decide! | |
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heels_fan
1.20.09 The start of Socialism
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN
| i know first hand i used to work for Dell. I was a tech support rep at the Nashville call center. I was there when the whole "no spyware support" thing came out.
From my experience, I would be very safe to say that 70%-75% of the calls that I took was either related to spyware or viruses.
I was taking around 25-30 calls in an 8 hour period, so you can imagine the call volume.
In my opinion, Dell should not worry about spyware on a customers PC.
That is like saying, you buy a brand new car, 2 months later you installed a new cam, or a new carb....You cant expect to take it to the dealership and have them fix it or repair it without aying for it.
What needs to be done is EDUCATE...EDUCATE...EDUCATE the customers
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I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a man that rises and sleeps under the blanket of protection that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it! | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype
| Re: i know first hand I agree that education is an answer, however I think the dilemma is, how do you educate customers who have no incentive to learn? I suppose when they call in for customer support, you could direct them through a web page that walks them through mal/spy/ad/ware analysis and removal before you ever let them touch tech support, but of course there will always be the whiny clueless who'd balk at that and say "Why should *I* have to fix this?" They'll just skim through it, not act on any of the suggestions and wind up at tech support mad anyway.
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Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| _____________________________________________________
I was a tech support rep at the Nashville call center
______________________________________________________
I thought Dell outsourced Tech Service jobs to Bangalore
India?
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»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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heels_fan
1.20.09 The start of Socialism
Premium
join:2003-02-07
Columbia, TN | Re: i know first hand not all jobs were outsorced...matter of fact, Nashville has a history of being one of Dells best call centers.
When I left, there were over 400 techs there | |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Elitist snobs This is hilarious. Some of you sound like high school students. Perhaps you're overcompensating. If you don't want to help people, fine, but to assume everyone in the world should know as much as you about computers is ridiculous.
The real problem is the spyware itself. If I sent people a free coffeemaker in the mail to "promote my new coffee", but also included a hidden camera in the coffeemaker that would record people's kitchen habits, would you say the people who used the coffeemaker are idiots? No. They're getting scammed. Spyware is the same thing; just a bit more intangible.
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A good idea expressed in a poor manner is a bad idea. | |
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techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX
| Re: Elitist snobs said by TheMadSwede :
This is hilarious. Some of you sound like high school students. Perhaps you're overcompensating. If you don't want to help people, fine, but to assume everyone in the world should know as much as you about computers is ridiculous.
The real problem is the spyware itself. If I sent people a free coffeemaker in the mail to "promote my new coffee", but also included a hidden camera in the coffeemaker that would record people's kitchen habits, would you say the people who used the coffeemaker are idiots? No. They're getting scammed. Spyware is the same thing; just a bit more intangible.
You're partially right. BUT, at the same time, if people call up the manufacturer of the coffee maker to complain about the camera you put in, the manufacturer is not responsible for your (being the peeper) actions.
There's a fine line over liability that is being drawn here. Some of the larger companies are starting to offer more services to "save face", but it really isn't the manufacturer/isp's fault. They shouldn't be obligated to do anything for the customer if it has nothing to do with the product/service they are offering.
My company offers internet and all that comes with it, good or bad. If you let the bad stuff get you, we will point you in which direction to go next, but we will not hold your hand and we certainly will not do it for you unless you want to pay our standard "truck-roll" fee of $90/hr plus mileage if the customer is more than X miles away. | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
1 edit | Re: Elitist snobs ______________________________________________________
but it really isn't the manufacturer/isp's fault. They shouldn't be obligated to do anything for the customer if it has nothing to do with the product/service they are offering.
________________________________________________________
I would agree with you one hundred percent on this one.
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»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| Point taken.
My focus was more on spyware and people's elitist reaction to casual computer users.
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything outside of their business model to help people, I'm just saying it's ridiculous to treat (and even talk about) your customers like trash because they don't understand something.
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A good idea expressed in a poor manner is a bad idea. | |
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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Elitist snobs Agreed, Swede. And it was the trollish post by Wills that hijacked this thread away from a news story about Dell's flipflop attempts at maintaining a customer service reputation and into a scream of dispair about the hopelessness of Joe and Jane user, repleat with tales of personal woe. | |
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ttt2525
@cable.rogers | Some of them don't understand it but they still don't care when you explain it to them...those are the aggravating ones. | |
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techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX
| said by TheMadSwede :
My focus was more on spyware and people's elitist reaction to casual computer users.
True. But, on the same token, sometimes these people, who don't know any better, won't take the time to try to know any better.
We had a customer finally cancel service with us a couple of months ago when they got pissed off because I (or any of the other poeple here) wouldn't help them with their spyware issue...FOR THE 4th TIME in 3 MONTHS! They demanded to speak to a supervisor, and my supervisor told them exactly what I did.
It's the people like that who most of the tech-savvy people complain about. Because we do try. We try and we point people in the right direction once, twice, three times, etc. There comes a point where we have to draw the line. And if that makes me look like an elitist snob, so be it. At least I know that I tried at least once. | |
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poopdepoop
@mc.videot
| >I'm not suggesting anyone do anything outside of their
>business model to help people, I'm just saying it's ridiculous
>to treat (and even talk about) your customers like trash
>because they don't understand something.
The reason we become elitist snobs is because we are ALWAYS the end-of-line kung fu dummy for dumbasses who are always forwarding crap to each other, get infected and then get angry when their piece of crap machines are infected with spyware and they have porn popping up everywhere and when their computer stops working, it spells the end of their pointless little lives. If they can't be bothered to learn, then I sure as shit can't be bothered to fix it.
They should institute an "Internet Driver's license" without which you would summarily be locked out of the internet. Forever.
The driver's test for this license should be to install and configure debian linux and ipchains.
oh yeah, ;p hehehe. | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| Dell Changes Spyware Tune I will sleep better at night knowing that "Dell Tech Support India" will help me when it comes to being educated about spyware. It took them look enough to get with the program.
Now if you could only understand what "Dell Tech Support India" are saying ,then every computer user would be a lot better off.
By the way, in a PC World July 2004 article "Misadventures in Tech Support" (page 137)the magazine gave Dell high marks for Tech Support when it came to knowledgeable staff.
Dell Computer owner
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»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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techwench
I Work For Food
Premium
join:2003-06-26
Sherman, TX
| Re: HOOOT ! ... heehee But you gotta give Monica credit. At least she's making an effort to learn...which is more than I can say for some of the other call center folks I try to avoid...*cough* sbc *cough* | |
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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx | Re: HOOOT ! ... heehee Oh, I do! Re-read the last sentence of the post you responded to: that is intended as nothing but sympathy for her situation with "lurching forth" a nod to her chutzpah. Trial by fire is a lousy thing to do to workers. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Dell Sucks Anyway I am neither defending the pc manufacturers nor the juvenile nerds whose grade school mentalities preclude them from helping others but the way I see is that if you're going to own a pc then there are fundamental steps you can take to educate yourself. Even idiot drivers have to study and pass a driver's exam. It's the responsibility of the individual pc owner to take steps -steps that are readily available and FREE online- to protect his computer.
Your geeky pal can only do so much for you but if you're not interested, then you deserve the crap that hijacks your computer.
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MoveOn.org -MFSO.org -ArnoldWatch.org - DigitalConsumer.org - FTCR.org - Privacy.org - Adbusters.org - Eff.com - Democraticmedia.org - HealthPrivacy.org - Hacktivismo.com - ClearChannelSucks.org - Epic.org | |
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chunk73
join:2002-02-22
Fairfield, CT
| Let the spyware keep on rollin In my experience I have teached many of my clients over and over how to use adaware and how to use spybot, and when something pops on the screen telling you to install something to say no. But it just doesnt seem to stick in their heads. So the upside to this is that every few months or so these peole come crawling back to me with their tower or laptop in hand telling me to give the machine a clean sweep and format it back to the way it was the last time i formatted it. I have never seen so much money coming in. And its not that i enjoy charging these people everytime they need their machine reloaded, the part that makes me laugh is that i have educated these users, i have sent them link upon links of sites where they can read about spyware and browser hijacking, but when it comes down to it these people just dont get it. They dont understand and probably will never understand what is acutally happening to their computers. I think that what they are thinking is that even though they have the tools to get rid of the junk why not just pay this guy every few months to do it for me since i really could care less and dont really want to learn anyway since i have no interest in this stuff. That is just my opinion from my personal experiences. These people just dont care, at least the ones that i am dealing with. | |
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| Taranis
join:2001-12-06
Mount Vernon, WA
| Re: Let the spyware keep on rollin Agreed! I repair PC's on the side and I do the same thing - and I still get repeat customers who do exactly what they were advised not to.
Hey, it pays for my golf games, going out for a steak now and then, and most recently paid for my 21" flat panel.
Lessee: "A fool and his money are soon parted" applies here. | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| Preach on because you are so right !! _______________________________________________________
They don't understand and probably will never understand what is actually happening to their computers. I think that what they are thinking is that even though they have the tools to get rid of the junk why not just pay this guy every few months to do it for me since i really could care less and don't really want to learn anyway since i have no interest in this stuff. That is just my opinion from my personal experiences. These people just don't care, at least the ones that i am dealing with
_______________________________________________________
Some people won't learn and some people like myself have learned their lesson the hard way. I have had to reformat/ reinstall Windows on my Gateway computer and I will be damned if I will do it again. Some people do learn their lesson and benefit from the experience.
Other people are just to ignorant in regards to the problem of internet security. They will continue to make the same mistake, over and over again until the light bulb goes off in their head. This is when they will wake up and learn from their mistake. It just takes paying out a large sum of money before they come to the conclusion that they must change their ways.
Knowledge is power.
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Dslreports.com Forum No-Spin zone starts here.
»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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ITGuy04
@dynamic.cov
| Real Education Real education would be to list the 5 programs you must buy to rid your new Hell PC of some of the threat of spyware:
1) Mozilla or Firefox
2) Thunderbird or built in Mozilla Mail
3) Ad-Aware or other spyware prevention program.
4) Antivirus program
5) And, don't forget a good firewall.
Or you could just return the Dell and get a Mac which has 0 problem with viruses, spyware, and other malware. I would reccomend Linux, but for the most part, it's not ready for prime time yet.
If you were a good friend, you would do that and not have to deal with the BS.
But, if Dell would do this, their sales would drop.
But, I guess when your computers are huge POS's, it really doesn't matter. I've seen them all, and Dell is one of the WORST vendors in existance.
But, if you truly want to get rid of ad/spyware, get a Mac - you will not spend much more money than a PC (many Macs are cheaper than comparable PC's) and you won't have these sorts of problems.
If GM made a car that would constantly get broken into, would you buy another GM? Yet people keep going back to Windows. Odd, isn't it? | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| Re: Real Education __________________________________________________________
But, I guess when your computers are huge POS's, it really doesn't matter. I've seen them all, and Dell is one of the WORST vendors in existance
__________________________________________________________
I would disagree with one hundred percent on your opinion that Dell is one of the worst vendors.
Here's what I do on a weekly basis.
01) I check Microsoft "Critical Updates" once a week.
02) I check for Mcafee virus updates every other day.
03) I run a complete virus scan every three days.
04) I use Spybot Search and Destroy every day and use Ad-Aware version six every three days.
05) I update spyware and adware programs every three or four days.
06) I use Disk-Keeper to defrag my hard drive every day
07) I do a full backup of my hard drive on a external USB hard drive at least once a month.
If everyone did a maintenance routine,then every computer user wouldn't have any problems. After all of the above, I don't have any problems with my Dell computer.
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Dslreports.com Forum No-Spin zone starts here.
»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Franksville, WI
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Real Education said by antiphishing :
Here's what I do on a weekly basis.
01) I check Microsoft "Critical Updates" once a week.
02) I check for Mcafee virus updates every other day.
03) I run a complete virus scan every three days.
04) I use Spybot Search and Destroy every day and use Ad-Aware version six every three days.
05) I update spyware and adware programs every three or four days.
06) I use Disk-Keeper to defrag my hard drive every day
07) I do a full backup of my hard drive on a external USB hard drive at least once a month.
If everyone did a maintenance routine,then every computer user wouldn't have any problems. After all of the above, I don't have any problems with my Dell computer.
Ok. Maybe a little more worried then you are. I do mostly the same things, but I do them more often.
01) I check Microsoft "Critical Updates" at least once a day, sometimes more then once a day.
02) McAfee is checking for updates automatically EVERY 4 HOURS
03) I run a complete virus scan on my PC EVERY night at 2 AM
04) Unfortunately, I don't use Spybot Search and Destroy or Ad-Aware. Maybe I should, but I have not had a problem yet (key word there)
05) See #4
06) I also use Diskeeper 8.0 to defrag my system once a day
07) I perform a full backup of my needed files ONCE a day to another HD in my system.
But, I will agree with you. If every PC in the world had a user that did this every day, then we would not have the problems we do. I would rather spend my time working on hardware issues then trying to clean a pc. But, until that day comes, I know there are people out there willing to pay me $$ to fix there PC every 6 months or so.
--
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--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: saursesCancer@comcast.net
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail | |
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itguy04
@dynamic.cov | Dell - Stable - HA - that's funny That's hilarious. Of all the PC manufacturer's, Dell is the biggest POS maker out there.
Stability and Dell in the same sentence, that's hilarious!!!! | |
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antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| Re: Dell - Stable - HA - that's funny _________________________________________________
Stability and Dell in the same sentence, that's hilarious!!!!
_________________________________________________
I own a Dell and don't have a problem.
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Dslreports.com Forum No-Spin zone starts here.
»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
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Dell Changes Spyware Tune