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Vonage Blame Game
Outage apparently a mystery

Om Malik points out that nobody wants to take responsibility for the multi-hour outage suffered by Vonage customers yesterday. According to Reuters, Vonage blames Global Crossing, but Global crossing claims an "investigation revealed no outages or routing issues on the Global Crossing network". Users of the popular VoIP service not only couldn't use the service, but they couldn't access the customer support website, either.

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loserhead
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA

loserhead

Member

THe Blame Game

well we might as well just get to it and start blaming the usual suspects:

George Bush (Daddy AND Dubya)

George Tenet

Micro$oft

Lindows (Linspire)

Osama bin Laden

Saddam Hussien

and of course:

ME (--AA--, dontshare, d0n7-5har3)
it's always my fault if they didnt do it.

just because it wasnt your fault doesnt mean they wont blame you. That goes for both of you, Vonage and Global Crossing.
72276539 (banned)
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA

72276539 (banned)

Member

Re: THe Blame Game

said by loserhead:
well we might as well just get to it and start blaming the usual suspects:

George Bush (Daddy AND Dubya)

George Tenet

Micro$oft

Lindows (Linspire)

Osama bin Laden

Saddam Hussien

and of course:

ME (--AA--, dontshare, d0n7-5har3)
it's always my fault if they didnt do it.

just because it wasnt your fault doesnt mean they wont blame you. That goes for both of you, Vonage and Global Crossing.

You forgot the telco's which are creating the outages to keep VOIP down.

loserhead
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA

loserhead

Member

Re: THe Blame Game

very very true.

but you can lump them in with the terrorists and bush if you want to.

--AA--
72276539 (banned)
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA

72276539 (banned) to loserhead

Member

to loserhead
Yeah, 'cause we all know the telco's are running around declaring jihad and trying to destroy America. And they have the support of Bush too.

loserhead
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA

loserhead

Member

Re: THe Blame Game

well put.

no i just meant that they all have their own agendas and are willing to do what is needed in order to achieve them.

AGENDAS:

Bush : World Domination/Oil

Bin Laden : World Domination/Oil/Death to American Pig-Dogs

Telcos : World Domination/$$$$$

--------------------------------

well, at least they dont want oil

--AA--
72276539 (banned)
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA

72276539 (banned) to loserhead

Member

to loserhead
Actually they might so they can fuel their backup generators.

loserhead
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA

loserhead

Member

Re: THe Blame Game

so then the conspiracy includes:

Terrorists

Bu5h

telcos

the weather channel

barney

&

bi11 gate5

right? or am i missing any?

--AA--

Toguro
join:2003-10-23
Rockford, IL

Toguro to loserhead

Member

to loserhead
And lets not forget Bert »www.bertisevil.tv/

stickside
join:2000-11-10
Worcester, MA

stickside

Member

Re: THe Blame Game

said by Toguro:
And lets not forget Bert »www.bertisevil.tv/

That is one of the funniest freaking sites I've ever seen. ROFLMFAO!!

magicalone
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

magicalone

Anon

Vonage's blame game

Vonage needs to take responsibility for their own services, blaming a carrier for their routing just shows imcompetance and/or mismanagement within Vonage. Service Providers like Vonage need to have at least 3 carriers if not also having globally diverse datacenters that work together with each other to make sure quality of service is what it needs to be. Also, if Vonage were diverse enough to have multiple carriers and be running BGPv4 with its' upstream carriers then they could have just simply shut one of them off until a maintance window when it would have been least noticeable to end users to correct the problem(s).

cob_
1310nm Of Goodness
Premium Member
join:2003-07-08
Tulsa, OK

cob_

Premium Member

Re: Vonage's blame game

Tracerts have shown that they are multihomed with Wiltel and others besides GLBX. This is an unacceptable excuse for THEIR outage.
rationale
join:2004-07-27
30323

rationale to magicalone

Member

to magicalone
I think the concept of 'start-up company' is escaping you. While you advice is good, I bet most start-up companies ran into trouble along the way to becoming big.

magicalone
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

magicalone

Anon

Re: Vonage's blame game

I don't think Vonage can qualify as a "start-up" anymore, since they only have ~150-200,000 customers; I can see a company with under 5-10,000 users having some small issues, but with those numbers times say 29.00 (subtracting for regulatory fees) that still comes up to be a huge number and yes I do reconize the costs associated with running a network of Vonage's size. Network Engineering and Security should be on the top of their priority list; especially since this is not their 1st outage in the last couple of months.
bp5138
Premium Member
join:2004-08-08
Plano, TX

bp5138

Premium Member

Re: Vonage's blame game

FYI - Vonage is still losing money. They originally raised $100 million when they started the company and now need an additional $100 million to get back to break-even. They are losing customers monthly due to their quality problems. You are absolutely right about their needing to accept responsibility for their network issues. Had they built a true VoIP network like Champion Communications did instead of laying VoIP technology on top of the old switching technology they wouldn't be having many of the probems they are experiencing.

bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium Member
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO

bistro777 to magicalone

Premium Member

to magicalone
Maybe they just forgot to pay their phone bill...

Old too soon...smart too late.
The Way Out
join:2003-01-20

The Way Out to magicalone

Member

to magicalone
I see Vonage through Level3, Global Crossing, and WilTel.

EGeezer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-04
Midwest

EGeezer

Premium Member

The real cause...

Some farmer was using a backhoe to bury a dead cow and cut through the trunk line.

(Usual response from phone company when there's a major phone or dataline outage)

pcscdma
hi
Premium Member
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA

pcscdma

Premium Member

Re: The real cause...

The excuse from Verizon that the beavers were eating out the fiber was at least funny.
mooty
join:2001-01-28
Riverdale, GA

mooty

Member

Blame it on those poor animals

Maybe it was those damn beavers - that is, if you read that article about the response one property owner had for a letter sent to him by his city govt. to notify him for the illegal diversion and construction of waterflow obstructing obstacle - the dam.

aitech
Guru. Kneel
join:2000-12-19
Boston, MA

aitech

Member

Simple..

Simple solution.. IF Vonage believes it was Global Crossing, then provide technical PROOF of what they are claiming. Not as a press release to everyone, etc, but to some tech forums, something where we will understand it, and allow us to determine if Global caused the problem. Then they will remain credible with us, and we can go to bat for them.

Just my 2c.

pcscdma
hi
Premium Member
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
ARRIS SB8200
Nest H2D

pcscdma

Premium Member

Re: Simple..

If GBX sufficiently screws up thier routing table, then it is possible that people using certain ISPs will have trouble getting through to Vonage. Some routers will route traffic in an infinite loop. That's why TTL exists. If the routers don't catch the problem or they are lax about it then the problem stays around that much longer. If the upstream ISP wants all the traffic to Vonage to go through GBX, usually to save $$$, then it is usually impossible to get through.

Or it could be that Vonage is lying.

Just blame it on the Democrats. Like Albert Gore Jr. or something. It seems to be a very popular thing to do.
Cybertoad
join:2001-11-08
Houston, TX

Cybertoad

Member

What Outage?

I was on the phone almost all day yesterday and
didn't have any problems whatsoever with my
Vonage phones.

No outage here!
hedyd4u
Premium Member
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY

hedyd4u

Premium Member

It was

Lee Harvey Oswald or maybe Fidel Castro

The MIB or Aliens

loserhead
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA

loserhead

Member

Re: It was

i still say it was the Weather Channel
scooterge558
join:2004-07-07

scooterge558

Member

Why play a game nobody wins

I'm not as concerned with whether Vonage or Global Crossing is to blame, and quite frankly could care less. What I am more interested in is whether Vonage is going to credit the accounts of everyone for the outage? That's the question I want answered. I have a feeling they are not, that would cost them way to much and let's face it, we're talking about cutting edge technology, bound to be some hiccups.

visio
join:2001-08-29
Austin, TX

visio

Member

No need to be credited

24 Hours (in a day) x 30 Days = 720 Hours

Vonage @ $29.99/month

29.99 / 720 Hours = ~$0.04 /hour

I was down for 2 hours, I'm not that hard pressed for the 8 cents...

Whats with some of you people?
hedyd4u
Premium Member
join:2003-12-16
Schenectady, NY

hedyd4u

Premium Member

Re: No need to be credited

They could not do the math.

MPScan
Premium Member
join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA

MPScan to visio

Premium Member

to visio
It isn't the actual cost of the service lost, but the value of that service to the consumer. I am only 27 years old, but cannot recall once in my lifetime that I lost a dialtone on my old copper line. I think most of us would be hard pressed to recall such an outage on the good 'ole POTS lines.

My point is that the value of your phone going down can go far beyond that $0.08. That's the problem here. If Vonage wants to market their product as a replacement for POTS lines, then they have to provide the same uptime that users have become used to. Who's to say this won't happen again in another week with Vonage.... I can tell you one thing, I can almost 100% guarantee it won't happen with my Verizon landline!

aaronfitz
Premium Member
join:2004-03-06
Cedar Rapids, IA

aaronfitz

Premium Member

Re: No need to be credited

»POTS' dirty little secret: big-time downtime

MPScan
Premium Member
join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA

MPScan

Premium Member

Re: No need to be credited

Your point? All that proves is that POTS really does have a phenominal uptime. Like I said, I am hard pressed to find one time that my POTS service crapped out. I bet you can't either.

aaronfitz
Premium Member
join:2004-03-06
Cedar Rapids, IA

aaronfitz

Premium Member

Re: No need to be credited

I can see you didn't read the thread

MPScan
Premium Member
join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA

MPScan

Premium Member

Re: No need to be credited

And you still haven't given me an example of when your phone service died?

The hardcord fact remains that for 99.99% of people, they have their POTS lines available 99.99% of the time.

You can post links to any thread you want, but you know what I just said is completely true.
MPScan

MPScan

Premium Member

Re: No need to be credited

Five days later, my point is proven.

»Another Vonage Outage?


visio
join:2001-08-29
Austin, TX

visio

Member

I dont understand why everyone has such as major issue with Vonage going down. It happens. Yes, I know, the Telco's dont go down as often as VOIP providers go down, but guess what..

(taken from Vonage TOS)
1.10 Service Distinctions
You acknowledge and understand that the Service is not a telephone service. Important distinctions (some, but not necessarily all, of which are described in this Agreement) exist between telephone service and the enhanced Service offering provided by Vonage.

If a company says they arent a telephone service, and you're holding them to the same standards as a telephone service, it's not the company who's at fault.
If you need a reliable telephone service (business, medical issues, etc) then you should sign up with a company that says theyre a telephone service. It's really that simple.

Looking as a cell phone for a replacement?

(taken from SprintPCS's website)
Coverage is not available everywhere, nor can we guarantee you will receive coverage at all times, or without interruptions or delays (e.g., dropped calls, blocked calls, etc.) in the coverage areas we identify. Actual coverage and quality of Services may be affected by conditions within or beyond our control, including network problems, software, signal strength, your equipment, structures (including buildings in which you may be located), atmospheric, geographic, or topographic conditions.

They dont claim theyre not a telephone service, but they do say that coverage is NOT available everywhere. I'm not going to quote each and every cell phone carrier, but you get the idea.

Need telephone service quality and stability? Go with a company that says they'll give it to you.

•••
Vonage User5
join:2004-05-15
Hillsborough, NC

Vonage User5 to visio

Member

to visio
I can agree with your assessment but what if you had multiple lines for a business and you had a conference call with a new client at 11' oclock.....

iforgotmypassword

Anon

Re: No need to be credited

If you have a such a critical situation, why in the world would you solely rely on a VoIP product?? That just seems like poor planning and bad decisionmaking

visio
join:2001-08-29
Austin, TX

visio to Vonage User5

Member

to Vonage User5
With any business, if you're relying on service, you should go with who will provide you the best service.
Which is why many business go for T1 lines, not cable.
Which is why they order name brand machines, and not have the local Radio Shack drop some off.
Which is why they stick with Verizon(* Bell), and not VOIP.

Look at it this way. You're running a business. Verizon offers you lines that will run you $50 a month, or VOIP offers service that will run you $30 a month. Meanwhile, your clients are each going to bring in at minimum $100/month. In your planning, is it worth losing $100 to save $20?
Doubledee32
join:2002-06-20
Charlotte, NC

Doubledee32

Member

Other Voip's were down also

Seems like Broadvox and Voicepluse were down during the time Vonage was as well......Has anyone any info on Callvantage from AT&T was wondering if its been reliable or not?
bp5138
Premium Member
join:2004-08-08
Plano, TX

bp5138

Premium Member

Re: Other Voip's were down also

AT&T has quality issues also. They chose to go with the H323 protocol instead of SIP. While H323 is more robust thant SIP, that robustness works against it in the VoIP environment. SIP is a simpler protocol that is very well suited to VoIP.

If you'd like to look at a VoIP provider that does not have quality or outage issues, go to www.championcommunications.biz/1001725.
yuckie
join:2001-05-07
Bronx, NY

yuckie

Member

Let's Shift the Blame Here!!!

Let's not blame Vonage or Global Crossing about this outage. How about blaming Verizon for it? I'll say Verizon is about to introduce their VoIP products, so they try to promote their products' stability by simply using some of their telcos to disable VoIP accesses from providers like Vonage, etc. How does that theory sound??:)

TercelChick
join:2002-08-13

TercelChick

Member

Re: Let's Shift the Blame Here!!!

*dons tinfoil hat*

If you have proof, give it. Otherwise, it was just an unfortunate incident. Remember the Ebay outage a few years back? The eventually got it together. Vonage will too, or be swallowed by another carrier who can.
Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT

Marckus0513 to yuckie

Member

to yuckie
said by yuckie:
Let's not blame Vonage or Global Crossing about this outage. How about blaming Verizon for it? I'll say Verizon is about to introduce their VoIP products, so they try to promote their products' stability by simply using some of their telcos to disable VoIP accesses from providers like Vonage, etc. How does that theory sound??:)



Oh Please.....spare me!!!! If you really think that is possible then you have issues!!

When there are so many pieces to the puzzle this is bound to happen from time to time, hopefully less often then more often. Its just the nature of the beast with VOIP, when you rely on multiple carriers and providers, and a switch that could be across the country from you processing your calls. Thats why I will keep my old-faithful POTS for my primary service with my local phone switch in my town providing me with super reliable dialtone and E911 service. For me it probably costs less too since I don't make many LD calls anyways.

As far as the Vonage outage goes, it is pretty bad that Vonage is trying to blame others for its service outage. It really doesn't matter whos fault it is, it is their responsibility to make sure their service had redundancy. Its Vonages service, if it doesn't work they should take the blame and move on. Management at Vonage shouldn't be so childish to play the blame-game.

Just my two cents.....Good night all!!