 
Anonuser
join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI | Big Deal, Ok, So, if you have internet access, why not just get VoIP, i'm sure at least one person testing BPL has already used it.
--
Chris Allessi ExaltedHosting.com Host of AlbinoBlackSheep KazaaLite Mirror at 2 terrabytes/month | |
|  | 
Wejo
@65.242.x.x | Re: Big Deal, Un-named power utility ..... GEORGIA POWER the state monopoly ! the ONLY power company you need, coming at a cinema near you. PG13 | |
| | | ParanoiaInc
join:2002-08-28
Tucker, GA
| Re: Big Deal, Mr. Comcast user, please understand that Georgia Power is not the only utility provider in the state of Georgia. I am glad to be a member of a EMC and they seem to be a lot more proactive in my neighborhood when needed than whenever I lived in a GP neighborhood.
I am a little curious as to why the neighborhood is not being mentioned, though. I do not understand the big secret. Its not like those neighborhoods, once made public knowledge, would suffer from a rash of phone disconnected from ma-bell, or an enticement to stay with ma-bell. | |
| | | | 
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
edit:
August 18th, @12:48PM
| Re: Big Deal, said by ParanoiaInc  :
I am a little curious as to why the neighborhood is not being mentioned, though. I do not understand the big secret. Its not like those neighborhoods, once made public knowledge, would suffer from a rash of phone disconnected from ma-bell, or an enticement to stay with ma-bell.
They are trying to conceal where this turd technology is being tested. They don't want those nasty Ham radio operators coming in and measuring all of the RF interference
that doesn't exist. The working thoery is "if there are no Ham's to hear the RFI it doesn't exist".
--
»www.gobpl.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Big Deal, said by MattE :
Perhaps they want to determine if anyone finds any interference without specifically looking for it.
Kind of like the falling tree in a forest addage:
If BPL is active in a neighborhood and no hammy is around to 'test', does it really cause interference?
They also will not give out the info on BPL transmission carriers sighting trade secrets. So if we hear interference they always blame it on something like a 50 year old Kirby vacuum cleaner.
--
»www.gobpl.com | |
| 
spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Rockford, IL | Why BPL So that's what is going to replace the Ham radio band. These guys are really thinking ahead! | |
| | 
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR | Re: Why BPL Yep, all 6 Mhz of it. Please...  | |
| | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
edit:
August 18th, @12:42PM
| Re: Why BPL said by wolfox :
Yep, all 6 Mhz of it. Please...
6mhz of what? it is my turn to say Please, get your facts straight, educate yourself by reading below
CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 97_AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents
Subpart D_Technical Standards
Sec. 97.301 Authorized frequency bands.
The following transmitting frequency bands are available to an
amateur station located within 50 km of the Earth's surface, within the
specified ITU Region, and outside any area where the amateur service is
regulated by any authority other than the FCC.
(a) For a station having a control operator who has been granted a
Technician, Technician Plus, General, Advanced, or Amateur Extra Class
operator license or who holds a CEPT radio-amateur license or IARP of
any class:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
Sharing
requirements see
Wavelength band ITU--Region 1 ITU--Region 2 ITU--Region 3 Sec. 97.303
(Paragraph)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
VHF MHz MHz MHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
[[Page 634]]
6 m............................. .................. 50-54............. 50-54............. (a)
2 m............................. 144-146........... 144-148........... 144-148........... (a)
1.25 m.......................... .................. 219-220........... .................. (a), (e)
Do.............................. .................. 222-225........... .................. (a)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
UHF MHz MHz MHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
70 cm........................... 430-440........... 420-450........... 420-450........... (a), (b), (f).
33 cm........................... .................. 902-928........... .................. (a), (b), (g).
23 cm........................... 1240-1300......... 1240-1300......... 124-1300.......... (j).
13 cm........................... 2300-2310......... 2300-2310......... 2300-2310......... (a), (b), (j).
do............................. 2390-2450......... 2390-2450......... 2390-2450......... (a), (b), (j).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
SHF GHz GHz GHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
9 cm............................ .................. 3.3-3.5........... 3.3-.5............ (a), (b), (k),
(l).
5 cm............................ 5.650-5.850....... 5.650-5.925....... 5.650-5.850....... (a), (b), (m).
3 cm............................ 10.00-10.50....... 10.00-10.50....... 10.00-10.50....... (a), (c), (i),
(n).
1.2 cm.......................... 24.00-24.25....... 24.00-24.25....... 24.00-24.25....... (a), (b), (i),
(o).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
EHF GHz GHz GHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
6 mm............................ 47.0-47.2......... 47.0-47.2......... 47.0-47.2.........
4 mm............................ 75.5-81.0......... 75.5-81.0......... 75.5-81.0......... (b), (c), (h),
(r).
2.5 mm.......................... 119.98-120.02..... 119.98-120.02..... 119.98-120.02..... (k), (p).
2 mm............................ 142-149........... 142-149........... 142-149........... (b), (c), (h),
(k).
1 mm............................ 241-250........... 241-250........... 241-250........... (b), (c), (h),
(q).
above 300......... above 300......... above 300......... (k).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
(b) For a station having a control operator who has been granted an
Amateur Extra Class operator license or who holds a CEPT radio-amateur
license Class 1 license or Class 1 IARP:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
Sharing
requirements. See
Wavelength band ITU--Region 1 ITU--Region 2 ITU--Region 3 Sec. 97.303
(Paragraph)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
MF kHz kHz kHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
160 m........................... 1810-1850......... 1800-2000......... 1800-2000......... (a), (b), (c).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
HF MHz MHz MHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
80 m............................ 3.50-3.75......... 3.50-3.75......... 3.50-3.75......... (a).
75 m............................ 3.75-3.80......... 3.75-4.00......... 3.75-3.90......... (a).
40 m............................ 7.0-7.1........... 7.0-7.3........... 7.0-7.1........... (a).
30 m............................ 10.10-10.15....... 10.10-10.15....... 10.10-10.15....... (d).
20 m............................ 14.00-14.35....... 14.00-14.35....... 14.00-14.35....... ..................
17 m............................ 18.068-18.168..... 18.068-18.168..... 18.068-18.168..... ..................
15 m............................ 21.00-21.45....... 21.00-21.45....... 21.00-21.45....... ..................
12 m............................ 24.89-24.99....... 24.89-24.99....... 24.89-24.99....... ..................
10 m............................ 28.0-29.7......... 28.0-29.7......... 28.0-29.7......... ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
(c) For a station having a control operator who has been granted an
operator license of Advanced Class:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
Sharing
requirements See
Wavelength band ITU--Region 1 ITU--Region 2 ITU--Region 3 Sec. 97.303,
(Paragraph)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
MF kHz kHz kHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
160 m........................... 1810-1850......... 1800-2000......... 1800-2000......... (a), (b), (c).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
HF MHz MHz MHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
[[Page 635]]
80 m............................ 3.525-3.750....... 3.525-3.750....... 3.525-3.750....... (a).
75 m............................ 3.775-3.800....... 3.775-4.000....... 3.775-3.900....... (a).
40 m............................ 7.025-7.100....... 7.025-7.300....... 7.025-7.100....... (a).
30 m............................ 10.10-10.15....... 10.10-10.15....... 10.10-10.15....... (d).
20 m............................ 14.025-14.150..... 14.025-14.150..... 14.025-14.150..... ..................
Do............................. 14.175-14.350..... 14.175-14.350..... 14.175-14.350..... ..................
17 m............................ 18.068-18.168..... 18.068-18.168..... 18.068-18.168..... ..................
15 m............................ 21.025-21.200..... 21.025-21.200..... 21.025-21.200..... ..................
Do............................. 21.225-21.450..... 21.225-21.450..... 21.225-21.450..... ..................
12 m............................ 24.89-24.99....... 24.89-24.99....... 24.89-24.99....... ..................
10 m............................ 28.0-29.7......... 28.0-29.7......... 28.0-29.7......... ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
(d) For a station having a control operator who has been granted an
operator license of General Class:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
Sharing
requirements. See
Wavelength band ITU-Region 1 ITU-Region 2 ITU-Region 3 Sec. 97.303
(Paragraph)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
MF kHz kHz kHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
160 m........................... 1810-1850......... 1800-2000......... 1800-2000......... (a), (b), (c).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
HF MHz MHz MHz ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
80 m............................ 3.525-3.750....... 3.525-3.750....... 3.525-3.750....... (a).
75 m............................ .................. 3.85-4.00......... 3.85-3.90......... (a).
40 m............................ 7.025-7.100....... 7.025-7.150....... 7.025-7.100....... (a).
Do............................. .................. 7.225-7.300....... .................. (a).
30 m............................ 10.10-10.15....... 10.10-10.15....... 10.10-10.15....... (d).
20 m............................ 14.025-14.150..... 14.025-14.150..... 14.025-14.150..... ..................
Do............................. 14.225-14.350..... 14.225-14.350..... 14.225-14.350..... ..................
17 m............................ 18.068-18.168..... 18.068-18.168..... 18.068-18.168..... ..................
15 m............................ 21.025-21.200..... 21.025-21.200..... 21.025-21.200..... ..................
Do............................. 21.30-21.45....... 21.30-21.45....... 21.30-21.45....... ..................
12 m............................ 24.89-24.99....... 24.89-24.99....... 24.89-24.99....... ..................
10 m............................ 28.0-29.7......... 28.0-29.7......... 28.0-29.7......... ..................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
(e) For a station having a control operator who has been granted an
operator license of Novice Class or Technician Class and who has
received credit for proficiency in telegraphy in accordance with the
international requirements.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
Sharing
requirements (see
Wavelength band ITU region 1 ITU region 2 ITU region 3 Sec. 97.303
paragraph)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
HF MHz MHz MHz ..................
80 m............................ 3.675-3.725....... 3.675-3.725....... 3.675-3.725....... (a)
40 m............................ 7.050-7.075....... 7.10-7.15......... 7.050-7.075....... (a)
15 m............................ 21.10-21.20....... 21.10-21.20....... 21.10-21.20....... ..................
10 m............................ 28.10-28.50....... 28.10-28.50....... 28.10-28.50....... ..................
VHF MHz MHz MHz ..................
1.25 m.......................... .................. 222-225........... .................. (a)
UHF MHz MHz MHz ..................
23 cm........................... 1270-1295......... 1270-1295......... 1270-1295......... (h)(i)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- --------------------
--
»www.gobpl.com | |
| | | | 
MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Re: Why BPL Wow, how about a link next time instead of three pages of misaligned junk. | |
| | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | So there, wolfox!!! | |
| | | | |
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR | Re: Why BPL *snicker* Yeah, and the pony you rode in on too! No, wait... you're talkin' about ME?!  | |
| | | |
c0
@hp.com
| I think all that info was unnecessary. You could have just said it's alot more then 6MHz and leave it at that. Nobody actually read that and did the calculations to see exactly how many Mhz..
Anyway, in what frequency range does this interference happen? If it's a small portion, maybe that section should be reassigned to be used as BPL so hams stop crying about it.
Don't you see? It's inevitable people, just because someone's interfering with your hobby isn't gonna let these companies mess with their possible huge profit by using this new technology. Hams should stop bitching about it and see what bands the interference occurs and request another band be used for their little conversations. | |
| | | | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Why BPL That is all I hear when you members of "the Church of
BPL" get hit with the facts. HOW MANY TIME DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU FOOLS ALL THE FREQUENCIES IN QUESTION ARE SPOKEN FOR. It is not a simple matter of tuning our radios to a different frequencies everything is being used by somebody.
We do not have to move over for a type 15 technology.
but even though you all know BPL is dead on it's feet.
The bottom line is IT CAN'T MAKE ANY MONEY!!!!
--
»www.gobpl.com | |
| | | | | |
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: Why BPL Man, get a sense of humour.... I referring to a BPL argument going back MONTHS ago. Being an Engineer, I DO KNOW better and was making thinly veiled attempt at humour and an even more obscure reference to one fellow's post on "Taking away 6Mhz of Ham spectrum @ 144Mhz to make VHF broadband possible." Lighten up dude, I am on your side. But I learned something...
F*ck me for trying to be funny again. Jeeze, sorry. Carry on.
--
Nothwest Arkansas' ONLY all Techno Radio Webcast, powered by SBC DSL! | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Why BPL Sorry Wolfox I wasn't flaming you, I took a shot at the visiting troll and missed, and at the same time I also had some lady screaming in my headset about you GD bastard, asshole, dumb son of a bitch, jerk VA, what are you going to do about the pills I didn't get you, you, piece of cow crap! ........I hung up on her;)
--
»www.gobpl.com | |
| | | | | | | |
wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: Why BPL Oh, oh.. okay. I guess this is license to carry on being funny when I want to. Thanks! But seriously, thanks man. No harm no foul. I too sort of work in a high stress environment and forget to take my sense of humour with me as I troll tromp about on the web.
--
Nothwest Arkansas' ONLY all Techno Radio Webcast, powered by SBC DSL! | |
| | | | | |
c0
@hp.com
| Well, for one thing I don't really care about BPL, I have cable with 10Mb/1Mb speed so I'm good there. The thing is I just did some research and found this out:
"ARRL has, upon diligent and exhaustive research, concluded that all Amateur medium-frequency (MF, i.e. 1.8-2.0 MHz), all HF, and all VHF allocations must be avoided by any access or in-building BPL system, without exception."
Also upon further research, I found out that it's not only hams that use these frequencies for hobby but some emergency, gov't and military also do...
So the problem is more extensive then I originally thought, I stand corrected. How about power companies that will be using this technology maybe put some sort of filter or shield on their lines? That would probably be costly for them tho...
And to respond to your "the bottom line is IT CAN'T MAKE ANY MONEY!!!" statement, they will invent anything to make money and it's a promising technology. It will cause fierce competition and that means price drop for the rest of us. Not to mention convenience and future possibilities when ALL of our electronics will be able to interact with one and other...
BPL is NOT "dead on it's feet" and if the demand is there, it will succeed and it will become illegal for YOU to interfere with BPL... Your radio will collect dust and you'll tell all your children these psycho stories like how there was once a thing called HAM and how you hate BPL and they will laugh at you. | |
| | | | | | | 
snorpus
join:2000-10-02
Export, PA
| Re: Why BPL
How about power companies that will be using this technology maybe put some sort of filter or shield on their lines? That would probably be costly for them tho...
What you're describing is coaxial cable, such as the cable companies use. But if the area is already served by cable, what market will BPL have? And if there isn't cable already, it's probably because it's not economic to do so. | |
| | | | | | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Thank you for your intellectual honesty and interest in learning about the whole scenario. Too many folk come her and attack the opposition to BPL taking a stand that is devoid of many facts or an open mind to really access the situation.
Most unfortunately, you tend to be a rare type out there!
Rob | |
| td2341
join:2002-02-17
Alexandria, VA
| Recycled News This trial was announced by LECStar on June 3, 2004 and is now being recycled as "new" news.
Only 20 of the trial customers are going to be offered VOIP services due to BPL's very low shared bandwidth, (from 1/10 to 1/2 of the carrying capacity of a single CATV channel). Modern CATV systems have 125 to over 160 channels of shared bandwidth available on each fiber node and xDSL systems are not shared at the individual consumer level.
BPL is in no way speed competitive with either xDSL or HFC with any kind of significant take rates. | |
| 
owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Wichita Falls, TX
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T Southwest
| The end of BPL I am a modeler, note the avatar. I fly model helicopters and airplanes. Been doing it for going on 20 years. Some of these models are very dangerous. A helicopter's 5' of carbon fiber blades spinning at close to 300mph. Or planes weighing over 10 pounds traveling at over 150mph. With equipment failures, or pilot error, these machines have killed people. Extreme care must be taken in their use.
We fly on 72mhz. That just happens to be a frequency designated to us by the FCC. It's for flying models only, and it's protected. 72mhz also just happens to be one of the frequencies interfered with by BPL. AMA has been lobbying heavily against BPL.
It will be interesting to see what happens to BPL the first time somebody dies because BPL interfered with the radio system of a model aircraft. And I guarantee you, a plane hitting you at 150mph, or a blade at 300mph, will kill you, dead.
--
Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
| | 
furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA
·RCN CABLE
| Re: The end of BPL said by owenhome :
It will be interesting to see what happens to BPL the first time somebody dies because BPL interfered with the radio system of a model aircraft. And I guarantee you, a plane hitting you at 150mph, or a blade at 300mph, will kill you, dead.
No argument that it would kill me dead; however, I think the chances of it are slim. How many people have been fatally wounded by these types of accidents? | |
| | | | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
|  Re: The end of BPL
| |
| | 
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by owenhome :
We fly on 72mhz. That just happens to be a frequency designated to us by the FCC. It's for flying models only, and it's protected. 72mhz also just happens to be one of the frequencies interfered with by BPL. AMA has been lobbying heavily against BPL.
{ sarcasm }
Well, more people need broadband access than to fly model airplanes, which are outdated anyway. You can fly in real planes these days, and if you had BPL, you could fly virtual airplanes on the Internet on flight simulators. This would be better than flying model airplanes and you wouldn't have to spend money. Plus, Internet flight simulators won't kill people like those dangerous airplanes you fly. And you'll be able to fly your model airplanes when the power goes out, because there won't be any BPL with no power. You could relocate your frequency to somewhere that BPL won't interfere with, although the interference hasn't been proven. It's actually politically driven lies. If the interference does exist, it's only a couple feet around the power line, so if you avoid power lines, you shouldn't have any problems. The FCC will probably outlaw model airplanes so we can all have BPL, especially out in the country. I haven't seen any problems with BPL and model airplanes, but I can't give you the details, because it's all under an NDA. You could control your model airplanes with signals on coaxial cable. This would shield the airplane control signal from any BPL interference. That way, the wireless radio spectrum could be used what it was really meant for, data on unshielded wires. Perhaps you could run fiber to your model airplane. You could just stick to model boats. I've never seen a power line on a lake. Would Christie Brinkley on a 747 be considered a flying model? I wouldn't want BPL to interfere with her.
{ /sarcasm }
( Sorry, I've gotten tired of arguing with BPL proponents, so I decided to take their side tonight  I'm glad to hear model airplane organizations are aware of the problem and letting their concerns be heard. ) | |
| | | TruthConcern
join:2004-09-19
Kennett Square, PA
| Re: The end of BPL
Dear rf_engineer:
You'd have to at least admit that using a flight simulator on your BPL-supplied Internet service, which is being hacked* by a hacker, terrorist or local schoolboy (a la Jobs and Gates at 15), or just your local motor's commutator screwing up, brings a whole new meaning to the word 'CRASH'!
* Of course, the hacker's jamming signal will emanate from a jamming device that's powered with as much power as it needs from same power outlet that's supplying the BPL signal.
Now, you've gotta admit it's a really neat idea to use the same two wires for mains power in and jamming signal out, the economies of it are excellent. Thanks to BPL's really brilliant designers this cleaverness doesn't stop there either: the BPL is all interconnected on the one and same circuit as the mains power, simplicity itself.
BPL just has to be a hacker's dream come true - think of all those many thousands of power points to choose from. No IP address to trace, quick, easy and anonymous installation, jammars can be located in hard to eliminate places, jammers can be multiple in number and use diffrernt jamming techniques to slow clearup, jammers can be made from a dollar's worth of bits from Tandy. Nothing could be more perfect, it's simply and truly a brillaint concept!
| |
| | TruthConcern
join:2004-09-19
Kennett Square, PA
| I'd thought I'd a good grasp on most of the problems and trouble this good-for-nothing BPL/PLC service causes, but this is one I'd not considered.
Hackers, hacking and jamming clearly come to mind when one thinks of BPL/PLC. Being hacked into or jammed is one of BPL's vulnerabilities but I'd not considered it could turn you and your hobby into a terrorist with a dangerous weapon.
Clearly, interference (RFI) from BPL into your model's communications is a real possiblity at these low VHF frequencies. What's more it'll become even more so with the new wider band BPL, which is capable of running all over these 72MHz frequencies - if not within the fundamental frequency range then certainly within its harmonics and overtones. With a bit of intermodulation (distortion of the RF signal) then your models really do have something to worry about.
Be very careful, put the models away, sit quietly in front of your BPL-supplied Internet service and look at images of your-once models and hope the so-called service doesn't fade to black too often.
In your quieter moments, consider the fact that you are actually being hacked by BPL and that the hacker is your local power utility facilitated by the FCC or other Spectrum Planning Authority regulators. (Without question, these guys have hardly opened the BPL textbook let alone touched their homework, yet they're supposed to be responsible for spectrum users' [your] intersts).
You can read more about BPL's nasties on another BroadBand Reports forum here:
»New BPL Trial
Oh, BTW, you might consider suing your local utility for ruining your lifestyle - your way of life, your hobby and giving you severe depression, not to mention the stess this will have caused you.
Good luck, you might just need lots of it!
| |
| Troy Brown
join:2004-04-10
New Albany, IN |  Japan tried BPL
| |
| TruthConcern
join:2004-09-19
Kennett Square, PA
| There's More about BPL / PLC Here guys....There's more about the BPL / PLC shambles over here guys....
If you're interested in how inadequate BPL / PLC is as an Internet service, then check out this BroadBand Reports forum here:
»New BPL Trial
There a bit of info and some good discussion on how BPL can be hacked by hackers (possibly even terroists), how it can be jammed with jamming devices, and stuff on why your Spectrum Management people (FCC etc.) aren't or can't do the job of regulating BPL. In short, why BPL/PLC is such a shambles.
Good reading.
| |
| | | |
|
|
VoIP Via Powerline
·