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 | dsdunbar
join:2004-07-24
Melissa, TX
|  Re: why dump billions into a deadend tech
Can it be done? Sure. And it pollutes the radio spectrum from 2MHz to 80MHz as well. Anyone that denies that is ignorant or a liar.
Why have a number of BPL trials ended with the decision to not go forward? Because of interferenece, and lack of economic viability.
BPL is junk technology. It should be banned, as it has in other contries (Austria, Japan, et al). | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: why dump billions into a deadend tech Interesting. For once in my life, I agree with a Gartner Group quote.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
edit:
August 23rd, @04:02PM
| good.. f... ham radio  | |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX | Re: good.. ditto | |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD | Re: good.. you shown your true self as a troll too, good job. | |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX
| If you are offering young boys for sexual purposes then I should call cops on you, perv. 
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| rdiedrich
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Mchenry, IL
clubs:
| Just a note about Ham Radio. It is considered a viable and essential backup in emergencies for communications and disasters. Especially when there is no broadband or power available. I would assume it was used heavily during the disasters recently in Florida.
_-Rdiedrich-_ | |
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tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA
| Precisely how many times do you need the following fact pounded into your skulls?
HAM RADIO REPRESENTS LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE AFFECTED SPECTRUM.
If a broadband-enhanced education creates the sort of deep thinkers that can't absorb this information, we are well and truly doomed.
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I would kill everyone on this forum for a drop of sweet beer.. | |
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kfolsom
Where the fit hits the shan
Premium
join:2003-01-31
Yucaipa, CA
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: good.. [QUOTE= ced06  ] quote:
I just glanced at your name and assumed a troll comment. Oh how I was right.
Ouchkabibble!
Was I talking to you? Or about you?
Flame off, please.
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"Maybe" is twice as good as "No", but only half as good as "Yes"... »www.folsomtech.com | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: good.. said by Vamp :
another person that lives in this crap hole state 
The only place I live is in your head RENT FREE! | |
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| p51d007
Naa-P51d Mustang
join:2002-06-07
Springfield, MO
| You might want to ask the people of Florida about it.
When the power went out, and the cellphone connections die,
Amateur radio is the ONLY communications source available.
Just about anytime there is any sort of natural disaster, you
can COUNT on amateur radio being just about the only means of
communications for 24 to 72 hours after the disaster passes, until the cell phone companies can get portable communications
established again.
If you understood anything about electromagnetic propogation, you would know why the amateur radio community is up in arms about BPL. You watch, it will most likely be the ARRL, or some other amateur radio organization that comes up with a solution to this problem. At least if BPL, in its current form
keeps going, when there is a storm, and the AC is DOWN, the good ole amateur radio community will still be able to operate. | |
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX
| Re: Before you dump on Amateur Radio said by p51d007 :
You might want to ask the people of Florida about it.
When the power went out, and the cellphone connections die...
I don't know what these people bitch about. When power dies there will be no more interference. Ham away, call for emergencies and etc. When power is up, please use a freaking chat room or a telephone.
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tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA
| It's time to think beyond the basement. Radio is a means of communication that can be used anywhere at any time, completely independent of commercially provided infrastructure. This may be hard to grasp, but some of us actually get up from the computer and go outside (gasp). And even more incredibly, there are a number of us who like to tinker and build stuff for ourselves, with our hands. I know it's pretty easy to just sit back and be a consumer, but believe it or not there are still people out there that enjoy experimenting and creating things on their own.
"Chat rooms" indeed
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I would kill everyone on this forum for a drop of sweet beer.. | |
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| Sunburn
join:2000-10-05
Denver, CO | Yeah... F ham radio and their god awful ugly antennas! | |
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| | murchisonj
join:2002-07-10
Fort Washakie, WY
| Re: good.. How about you look into how much the government uses the ham operators for disasters. You know hams are used for emergencies from Amber alerts to fires to major disasters like the September 11th attacks. How bout this if a disaster strikes in your town and you cant find you family don't ask a ham for help even though you cant use your cell phone or any other communication!!! I am a ham and I am 25 years old. It is not just for the old either. kd7oas. | |
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| KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| said by Vamp :
f... ham radio
And if BPL affected radio frequency sensitive devices in your home like your satellite dish, your cordless phones, baby monitors, cell phones, stereo equipment, GPS devices, opened and closed your garage doors at will, put hash in your television reception, would you be as equally quick to take a stance likened to "GO BPL"?
I don't think so. But luckily for you, you can discount ham radio because you are unaffected and are able to dismiss the potential interference to public service, public safety, military, aviation, etc, users because all of those are probably as equally insignificant to you given your stance (or lack of understanding about the physics behind BPL).
Some of you cannot differentiate between BROADBAND and BPL (BROADBAND OVER POWER LINES)- and others still wish to ignore the facts to continue to promote a "sounds-good" but failed technology.
I bet if any or all of the above devices in your house were affected and you had irrefutable proof of such, you would still want, support and demand better broadband coverage, but would not say that it MUST be sent over power lines.
Rob | |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
edit:
August 24th, @04:38PM
| Re: good.. that's easy for you to say mr. optimum online .. but us that want more speed and more coverage, BPL is capable of offering that. And how it's going fiber is going to take several years to start being deployed.
sometimes you have to make a hard choice, on most new technologies there is a choice that needs to be made.
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:: My current desktop :: | |
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| | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Re: good.. said by Vamp :
that's easy for you to say mr. optimum online .. but us that want more speed and more coverage, BPL is capable of offering that. And how it's going fiber is going to take several years to start being deployed.
sometimes you have to make a hard choice, on most new technologies there is a choice that needs to be made.
You don't get it.
Whether or not I have optimum online or never even heard of the internet, it does not change the facts, the physics and the outcomes. Even if I never heard of or was concerned about ham radio, it would not change the fact that others rely on this valuable HF spectrum for their services.
And, BPL is a pipe dream. If fiber is too expensive to send to rural areas, what makes you think that the power line companies will invest in all of the expensive repeaters and hardware to make the signals reach you? If BPL lives, it will, despite all of the flag waving, serve the cheaper-to-address metropolis where there are already choices in DSL and cable modems.
I am sorry if the cold hard facts do not support BPL, but it is a flawed technology. I do hope that you get your broadband service, but that you get it reliably and not at the expense of others who need to rely on the frequencies that will be affected.
Rob | |
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TheToro
Premium
join:2003-06-05
Atlanta, GA | Why the BPL is known like PLC in SPain/Europe? what is the difference if its the same? | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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jrobcet
join:2003-02-16
Moscow, ID | I don't buy it.... quote:
"most people agree it's going to happen and that it's a good thing."
Considering the failed and prematurely ended trials, I would take this quote with a grain of salt. | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | The BB concept that wouldn't die. Maybe somebody will make something of it someday.
I guess it's the possibility of all that money that keeps it prospective.
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Updated My Journal
TP&C | |
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tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA
| ... quote:
"there is general acceptance now that broadband over power line is here to stay," notes a member of the Power Line Communications Association in the article who believes "most people agree it's going to happen and that it's a good thing."
should read
quote:
"There is general acceptance now that broadband over power line is here to stay. Most people agree it's going to happen and that it's a good thing," says Alan Shark, president of the Power Line Communications Association.
Other notable quotes from our friend Mr. Shark include:
quote:
"Let me say that had the author called upon our industry association we would have told him there is simply zero empirical evidence that power line communications causes harmful interference with ham radio frequencies." (source)
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I would kill everyone on this forum for a drop of sweet beer.. | |
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odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs: | the infidels! LOL:) we will roast their stomachs! | |
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| Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
| Re: ... Even if the radio interference was not harmful to anything...
It takes energy to create radio waves. And if BPL causes radio to bleed out of the power lines. Why would a power company want to increase the power loss per feet of cable and decrease their transport efficiency by having a lot of it bleed out from the cable?
And it has been said that BPL does not break into any new markets... So, although it can provide broadband, and even if they fix the radio pollution, how can it be competitive with other technologies? WHAT ARE IT'S ADVANTAGES? | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by Samwoo :
Even if the radio interference was not harmful to anything...
It takes energy to create radio waves. And if BPL causes radio to bleed out of the power lines. Why would a power company want to increase the power loss per feet of cable and decrease their transport efficiency by having a lot of it bleed out from the cable?
Actually, the radiation or transmission of the high frequencies that BPL uses does not affect 60 hertz energy transmission. BPL (with power levels in microwatts) does not run high enough power levels to increase the temperature of power lines (which would in turn increase line resistance and affect 60 hertz current), or do anything else to affect 60 hertz power, that I'm aware. | |
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| | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
edit:
August 24th, @11:23AM
|  NIMBY...like the fears of cell towers?
Hey...no one wants a cell site in their neighborhood for fear that it will fry their children who will be so far out of the near-filed...but the fear prevails even if the data does not support it. If folks get the same fears about increased radiation from the power lines, I bet BPL would be trashed by the masses!
Rob | |
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David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
·Be There
| Broadband Over Power Lines Runs Out of Gas The lack of research that went into this BPL PR effort is clearly shown by this statement:
"EarthLink, for example, is partnering with Progress Energy to deliver BPL in a field trial outside of Raleigh, North Carolina."
A quick visit to BBR would have found this;
»Another One Bites the Dust
(Another One Bites the Dust - Raleigh BPL trial ends; no expansion planned)
BPL under a host of names - DPL, PLT, PLC, BPL - has for the last 8 years moved from country to country like a drunk staggering from bar to bar in search of one last drink.
A better (and more accurate) headline would be Broadband Over Power Lines Runs Out of Gas. | |
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sabersaw
Premium
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH
edit:
August 23rd, @05:18PM
| to the power companies. Just worry about getting my bill right and keeping the electricity close to spec. Don't pollute HF bands either. You guys have a right-of-way in my back yard. But not in my house. How much more money are you suckers going to waste? Enough to effect my bill? | |
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David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
·Be There
| Aircraft communications - serious BPL interference BPL does not just interfere with the Amateur Radio Service it also interferes with aircraft communications which is a safely of life issue.
Full details here;
»gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retr···16183088
The comments were filed by Boeing – the folks who build a lot of planes (747, 777, 737 etc.) | |
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sabersaw
Premium
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH
edit:
August 23rd, @05:21PM
| Re: Aircraft communications - serious BPL interference oh I know its host of services. Aircraft, Maritime, general shortwave, WWV (self setting clocks), government utility, MARS, CAPS (ofcourse, the ignorant would argue the last two as "ham radio"), WeFAX, RTTY... the list goes on, but those are the only ones that effect me. If the frequency range they claim is true.. The Ohio State Troopers could potentally be intereferd with. Hopefully, these "projects" fail on their own... it is becoming quite clear nobody @ the FCC cares. Open, balanced "feedline" and they wonder why its interfering. Someone should have their head checked. | |
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David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
·Be There
| BPL is the worst choice for rural areas The totally bogus claim that BPL is suitable choice for rural deployment is one of the many lies along with “no interference” propagated by the BPL morons. The BPL strategy is to get the FCC to ignore the high levels of interference / spectrum pollution as the FCC wants to get broadband to communities that don’t have it
In reality, if the BPL companies succeed, they will abandon the rural areas and immediately focus on the wealthy suburban markets that are profitable and already have cable and DSL.
Check the numbers - DSL can work out to about ~ 16,000 feet from the central office. BPL can only go 2,000 feet from the BPL equivalent of a DSLAM, then it needs an expensive repeater installed by an linesman trained to work with 11,000 volt cables. So for a 16,000 foot run 8 BPL repeaters are needed.
At the customer’s pole transformer a bridge needs to be installed to couple the signals from the 11,000 volt line to your 110 volt line, if this bridge fails, say from a lightning strike you will have 11,000 volts on all of your outlets – ouch!
However the math is worked, there is no way the power companies can implement this vast array of expensive equipment in rural areas with any hope of meeting the projected pricing.
The existing DSL broadband technology is proven and could be provided to almost everyone who has a phone, the barriers are political (and FCC failure) not technical. The solution to universal broadband lies in ensuring the phone companies serve all of their customers equally. BPL is a broken legacy technology that is a pure distraction to the objective of universal broadband. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Wichita Falls, TX
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Southwest
edit:
August 23rd, @10:11PM
| Same song, different verse. A little bit louder.. AND A WHOLE LOT WORSE!
All of this money is being spent to utilize an existing infrastructure when a new infrastructure is required. How many people are going to spend so much time and money re-inventing the wheel before somebody realizes a wheel is not what we need.
Look at DSL and cable, all that money to improve an existing technology when we really need to bite the bullet and revamp the entire system.
It's like swapping out the motor in a Pinto when what you really needed was a new car.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
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BPL 'Here to Stay'
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