  odogMinister of internet doohickies
Premium Member
join:2001-08-05
Atlanta, GA
Asus ET12
2 edits |
odog
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 4:01 pm
why dump billions into a deadend technot counting all the ARRL/ham guys out there looking for blood. quote:
"To tell you the truth, if utilities are really going to get into driving telecom services it likely will be through fiber"
you're damn skippy fiber is where the money should be spent. | |
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Re: why dump billions into a deadend techPower lines were designed to carry electricity to homes and businesses. Fiber and phone lines were designed to carry data. What engineer in his right mind would use very poor substitutes like this? Wrong material, wrong tool.
Can it be done? Sure. And it pollutes the radio spectrum from 2MHz to 80MHz as well. Anyone that denies that is ignorant or a liar.
Why have a number of BPL trials ended with the decision to not go forward? Because of interferenece, and lack of economic viability.
BPL is junk technology. It should be banned, as it has in other contries (Austria, Japan, et al). | |
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| |  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA |
Re: why dump billions into a deadend techInteresting. For once in my life, I agree with a Gartner Group quote.
Calvoiper | |
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 Vamp5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD
1 edit |
Vamp
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 4:01 pm
good..f... ham radio  | |
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|  TexasGuy49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX |
TexasGuy
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 4:02 pm
Re: good..ditto | |
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| |  Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA |
Re: good..
Bite my ass, dude! |
said by TexasGuy:
ditto
Here's to you... | |
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| | | Vamp5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD |
Vamp
Premium Member
2004-Aug-30 3:06 pm
Re: good..you shown your true self as a troll too, good job. | |
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| | | TexasGuy49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX |
to Radio Active
If you are offering young boys for sexual purposes then I should call cops on you, perv.  | |
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| rdiedrich
Premium Member
join:2002-11-25
Mchenry, IL |
to Vamp
Just a note about Ham Radio. It is considered a viable and essential backup in emergencies for communications and disasters. Especially when there is no broadband or power available. I would assume it was used heavily during the disasters recently in Florida.
_-Rdiedrich-_ | |
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|  tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA |
to Vamp
Precisely how many times do you need the following fact pounded into your skulls?
HAM RADIO REPRESENTS LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE AFFECTED SPECTRUM.
If a broadband-enhanced education creates the sort of deep thinkers that can't absorb this information, we are well and truly doomed. | |
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| | Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA |
Re: good..said by tenbase:
Precisely how many times do you need the following fact pounded into your skulls?
HAM RADIO REPRESENTS LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE AFFECTED SPECTRUM.
If a broadband-enhanced education creates the sort of deep thinkers that can't absorb this information, we are well and truly doomed.
Please do not feed the trolls...  | |
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Re: good..said by Radio Active:
said by tenbase:
Precisely how many times do you need the following fact pounded into your skulls?
HAM RADIO REPRESENTS LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE AFFECTED SPECTRUM.
If a broadband-enhanced education creates the sort of deep thinkers that can't absorb this information, we are well and truly doomed.
Please do not feed the trolls...
What, not even arsenic? | |
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| | | ced06
join:2004-03-12
Towanda, PA |
to Radio Active
said by Radio Active:
said by tenbase:
Precisely how many times do you need the following fact pounded into your skulls?
HAM RADIO REPRESENTS LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE AFFECTED SPECTRUM.
If a broadband-enhanced education creates the sort of deep thinkers that can't absorb this information, we are well and truly doomed.
Please do not feed the trolls...
said by Radio Active:
said by tenbase:
Precisely how many times do you need the following fact pounded into your skulls?
HAM RADIO REPRESENTS LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE AFFECTED SPECTRUM.
If a broadband-enhanced education creates the sort of deep thinkers that can't absorb this information, we are well and truly doomed.
Please do not feed the trolls...
I just glanced at your name and assumed a troll comment. Oh how I was right. | |
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| | | | Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA |
Re: good..[QUOTE=ced06 ] quote:
I just glanced at your name and assumed a troll comment. Oh how I was right.
Ouchkabibble! Was I talking to you? Or about you? Flame off, please. | |
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|  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
4 edits |
to Vamp
said by Vamp:
f... ham radio
Please I invite you to stick your favorite member in question into the transmitter cage on My SB 200. You can make love to a pair of 572B triode's with 2400 volts on their plate cap's. Nothing will be same afterwards, but a set of nudicles would help  | |
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| |  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY |
n2jtx
Member
2004-Aug-23 6:35 pm
Re: good.. | |
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| moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD |
to Vamp
said by Vamp:
f... ham radio
Another uneducated troll.  | |
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| | Vamp5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD |
Vamp
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 9:55 pm
Re: good.. | |
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| | | moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2004-Aug-23 10:03 pm
Re: good..said by Vamp:
another person that lives in this crap hole state
The only place I live is in your head RENT FREE! | |
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| p51d007Naa-P51d Mustang
join:2002-06-07
Springfield, MO |
to Vamp
You might want to ask the people of Florida about it.
When the power went out, and the cellphone connections die,
Amateur radio is the ONLY communications source available.
Just about anytime there is any sort of natural disaster, you
can COUNT on amateur radio being just about the only means of
communications for 24 to 72 hours after the disaster passes, until the cell phone companies can get portable communications
established again.
If you understood anything about electromagnetic propogation, you would know why the amateur radio community is up in arms about BPL. You watch, it will most likely be the ARRL, or some other amateur radio organization that comes up with a solution to this problem. At least if BPL, in its current form
keeps going, when there is a storm, and the AC is DOWN, the good ole amateur radio community will still be able to operate. | |
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| | TexasGuy49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX |
TexasGuy
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 11:56 pm
Re: Before you dump on Amateur Radiosaid by p51d007:
You might want to ask the people of Florida about it.
When the power went out, and the cellphone connections die...
I don't know what these people bitch about. When power dies there will be no more interference. Ham away, call for emergencies and etc. When power is up, please use a freaking chat room or a telephone. | |
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| | | Vamp5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD |
Vamp
Premium Member
2004-Aug-24 1:34 am
Re: Before you dump on Amateur Radiosaid by TexasGuy:
said by p51d007:
You might want to ask the people of Florida about it.
When the power went out, and the cellphone connections die...
I don't know what these people bitch about. When power dies there will be no more interference. Ham away, call for emergencies and etc. When power is up, please use a freaking chat room or a telephone.
 | |
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| | | moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD |
to TexasGuy
said by TexasGuy:
I don't know what these people bitch about. When power dies there will be no more interference. Ham away, call for emergencies and etc. When power is up, please use a freaking chat room or a telephone.
Geesh, another one with little knowledge. What do you tell a firefighter? You can't practice or train unless there is a fire? How about a cop? Can't target practice only use it when needed? Come back when you can provide a reasonable argument. | |
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| | | tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA |
to TexasGuy
It's time to think beyond the basement. Radio is a means of communication that can be used anywhere at any time, completely independent of commercially provided infrastructure. This may be hard to grasp, but some of us actually get up from the computer and go outside (gasp). And even more incredibly, there are a number of us who like to tinker and build stuff for ourselves, with our hands. I know it's pretty easy to just sit back and be a consumer, but believe it or not there are still people out there that enjoy experimenting and creating things on their own. "Chat rooms" indeed | |
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to Vamp
Yeah... F ham radio and their god awful ugly antennas! | |
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Re: good..How about you look into how much the government uses the ham operators for disasters. You know hams are used for emergencies from Amber alerts to fires to major disasters like the September 11th attacks. How bout this if a disaster strikes in your town and you cant find you family don't ask a ham for help even though you cant use your cell phone or any other communication!!! I am a ham and I am 25 years old. It is not just for the old either. kd7oas. | |
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| | moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD |
to Sunburn
said by Sunburn:
Yeah... F ham radio and their god awful ugly antennas!
So many uninformed empty skulls, so little time.  | |
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| KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY |
to Vamp
said by Vamp:
f... ham radio
And if BPL affected radio frequency sensitive devices in your home like your satellite dish, your cordless phones, baby monitors, cell phones, stereo equipment, GPS devices, opened and closed your garage doors at will, put hash in your television reception, would you be as equally quick to take a stance likened to "GO BPL"? I don't think so. But luckily for you, you can discount ham radio because you are unaffected and are able to dismiss the potential interference to public service, public safety, military, aviation, etc, users because all of those are probably as equally insignificant to you given your stance (or lack of understanding about the physics behind BPL). Some of you cannot differentiate between BROADBAND and BPL (BROADBAND OVER POWER LINES)- and others still wish to ignore the facts to continue to promote a "sounds-good" but failed technology. I bet if any or all of the above devices in your house were affected and you had irrefutable proof of such, you would still want, support and demand better broadband coverage, but would not say that it MUST be sent over power lines. Rob | |
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| | Vamp5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD
1 edit |
Vamp
Premium Member
2004-Aug-24 4:35 pm
Re: good..that's easy for you to say mr. optimum online .. but us that want more speed and more coverage, BPL is capable of offering that. And how it's going fiber is going to take several years to start being deployed.
sometimes you have to make a hard choice, on most new technologies there is a choice that needs to be made. | |
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| | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY |
KB2PSM
Member
2004-Aug-25 11:10 am
Re: good..said by Vamp:
that's easy for you to say mr. optimum online .. but us that want more speed and more coverage, BPL is capable of offering that. And how it's going fiber is going to take several years to start being deployed.
sometimes you have to make a hard choice, on most new technologies there is a choice that needs to be made.
You don't get it. Whether or not I have optimum online or never even heard of the internet, it does not change the facts, the physics and the outcomes. Even if I never heard of or was concerned about ham radio, it would not change the fact that others rely on this valuable HF spectrum for their services. And, BPL is a pipe dream. If fiber is too expensive to send to rural areas, what makes you think that the power line companies will invest in all of the expensive repeaters and hardware to make the signals reach you? If BPL lives, it will, despite all of the flag waving, serve the cheaper-to-address metropolis where there are already choices in DSL and cable modems. I am sorry if the cold hard facts do not support BPL, but it is a flawed technology. I do hope that you get your broadband service, but that you get it reliably and not at the expense of others who need to rely on the frequencies that will be affected. Rob | |
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| Radio ActiveMy pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA |
to Vamp
said by Vamp:
f... ham radio
Right back at you, troll... | |
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 TheToro
Premium Member
join:2003-06-05
Atlanta, GA |
TheToro
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 4:01 pm
Why the BPL is known like PLC in SPain/Europe?what is the difference if its the same? | |
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I don't buy it....quote:
"most people agree it's going to happen and that it's a good thing."
Considering the failed and prematurely ended trials, I would take this quote with a grain of salt. | |
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 SuperJudgeRaiden Wins
Premium Member
join:2002-11-14
Atlanta, GA |
The BB concept that wouldn't die.Maybe somebody will make something of it someday.
I guess it's the possibility of all that money that keeps it prospective. | |
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tenbase
join:2000-07-19
Alexandria, VA |
...quote:
"there is general acceptance now that broadband over power line is here to stay," notes a member of the Power Line Communications Association in the article who believes "most people agree it's going to happen and that it's a good thing."
should read quote:
"There is general acceptance now that broadband over power line is here to stay. Most people agree it's going to happen and that it's a good thing," says Alan Shark, president of the Power Line Communications Association.
Other notable quotes from our friend Mr. Shark include: quote:
"Let me say that had the author called upon our industry association we would have told him there is simply zero empirical evidence that power line communications causes harmful interference with ham radio frequencies." (source)
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Broadband Over Power Lines Runs Out of GasThe lack of research that went into this BPL PR effort is clearly shown by this statement: "EarthLink, for example, is partnering with Progress Energy to deliver BPL in a field trial outside of Raleigh, North Carolina." A quick visit to BBR would have found this; » Another One Bites the Dust(Another One Bites the Dust - Raleigh BPL trial ends; no expansion planned) BPL under a host of names - DPL, PLT, PLC, BPL - has for the last 8 years moved from country to country like a drunk staggering from bar to bar in search of one last drink. A better (and more accurate) headline would be Broadband Over Power Lines Runs Out of Gas. | |
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 sabersaw
Premium Member
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH
1 edit |
sabersaw
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 4:47 pm
to the power companies.Just worry about getting my bill right and keeping the electricity close to spec. Don't pollute HF bands either. You guys have a right-of-way in my back yard. But not in my house. How much more money are you suckers going to waste? Enough to effect my bill? | |
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Aircraft communications - serious BPL interferenceBPL does not just interfere with the Amateur Radio Service it also interferes with aircraft communications which is a safely of life issue. Full details here; » gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/e ··· 16183088The comments were filed by Boeing – the folks who build a lot of planes (747, 777, 737 etc.) | |
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| sabersaw
Premium Member
join:2001-08-21
Dayton, OH
2 edits |
sabersaw
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 5:06 pm
Re: Aircraft communications - serious BPL interferenceoh I know its host of services. Aircraft, Maritime, general shortwave, WWV (self setting clocks), government utility, MARS, CAPS (ofcourse, the ignorant would argue the last two as "ham radio"), WeFAX, RTTY... the list goes on, but those are the only ones that effect me. If the frequency range they claim is true.. The Ohio State Troopers could potentally be intereferd with. Hopefully, these "projects" fail on their own... it is becoming quite clear nobody @ the FCC cares. Open, balanced "feedline" and they wonder why its interfering. Someone should have their head checked. | |
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| David95037 |
BPL is the worst choice for rural areasThe totally bogus claim that BPL is suitable choice for rural deployment is one of the many lies along with “no interference” propagated by the BPL morons. The BPL strategy is to get the FCC to ignore the high levels of interference / spectrum pollution as the FCC wants to get broadband to communities that don’t have it
In reality, if the BPL companies succeed, they will abandon the rural areas and immediately focus on the wealthy suburban markets that are profitable and already have cable and DSL.
Check the numbers - DSL can work out to about ~ 16,000 feet from the central office. BPL can only go 2,000 feet from the BPL equivalent of a DSLAM, then it needs an expensive repeater installed by an linesman trained to work with 11,000 volt cables. So for a 16,000 foot run 8 BPL repeaters are needed.
At the customer’s pole transformer a bridge needs to be installed to couple the signals from the 11,000 volt line to your 110 volt line, if this bridge fails, say from a lightning strike you will have 11,000 volts on all of your outlets – ouch!
However the math is worked, there is no way the power companies can implement this vast array of expensive equipment in rural areas with any hope of meeting the projected pricing.
The existing DSL broadband technology is proven and could be provided to almost everyone who has a phone, the barriers are political (and FCC failure) not technical. The solution to universal broadband lies in ensuring the phone companies serve all of their customers equally. BPL is a broken legacy technology that is a pure distraction to the objective of universal broadband. | |
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 dslwanter20 years on this site
Premium Member
join:2002-12-16
Mineral Ridge, OH |
UH.I think I'll just stick with my DSL. I won't get shocked using it and it usually won't get overloaded and black out the whole Northeastern US. | |
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 owenhomekeeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium Member
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR
1 edit |
owenhome
Premium Member
2004-Aug-23 10:11 pm
Same song, different verse. A little bit louder..AND A WHOLE LOT WORSE!
All of this money is being spent to utilize an existing infrastructure when a new infrastructure is required. How many people are going to spend so much time and money re-inventing the wheel before somebody realizes a wheel is not what we need.
Look at DSL and cable, all that money to improve an existing technology when we really need to bite the bullet and revamp the entire system.
It's like swapping out the motor in a Pinto when what you really needed was a new car. | |
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