St. Louis Wi-Fi - City joins growing list

St. Louis Wi-Fi
City joins growing list
(old news - 10:50AM Friday Sep 17 2004)
tags: wireless

Add St. Louis to the list of cities suddenly considering a city wide wireless network. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, the city, like many others, is watching Philadelphia to see what kind of hardware and financing the city settles on. Cleveland recently added 4,000 wireless transmitters to its lakefront and University Circle districts, while New York is preparing to affix transmitters and signal relays atop some 18,000 streetlights.

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Forums » St. Louis Wi-Fi


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reub2000 Premium join:2001-12-28 Evanston, IL	Wait a little bit? I think they should wait a bit for the IEEE to finish future specs of future wireless protcols. Aren't there some in the works that have a 30 miles? Maybe the price will even come down.
	permalink · 2004-09-17 10:52:47 ·

tunasub2 join:2001-06-05 Manteca, CA 1 edit	Re: Wait a little bit? said by reub2000 : Aren't there some in the works that have a 30 miles? They have WiMax that will be up to 30 miles. But, you would have to connect to a central point in order to use this technology.
	permalink · 2004-09-17 11:04:46 ·

reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL

Re: Wait a little bit?

said by tunasub2 :

said by reub2000 :
Aren't there some in the works that have a 30 miles?
They have WiMax that will be up to 30 miles. But, you would have to connect to a central point in order to use this technology.

That's what I meant. Wouldn't that be better for giving an entire city wireless access?

BTW, what's the diffrence between WiMax and a cell phone data protocol like GPRS?

permalink · 2004-09-17 17:16:53 · Print ·

tunasub2 join:2001-06-05 Manteca, CA	Re: Wait a little bit? said by reub2000 : BTW, what's the diffrence between WiMax and a cell phone data protocol like GPRS? I don't know about the phone technology but I think that WiMax is direct line of sight. The site says that you can't connect to a WiMax signal directly like WiFi, you have to use an access point or ethernet hub to connect.
	permalink · 2004-09-17 19:53:28 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Wi-Fi is here people Wires are so last century, connectivity without wires is WAY better. I can(and do) connect at many shops in the Bay Area, to freely offered access. No need to piggyback onto someones access point illegally. Gotta love laptops! -- Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out.
	permalink · 2004-09-17 11:04:12 ·

furlonium Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes? join:2002-05-08 Bethlehem, PA	Re: Wi-Fi is here people Where I live (Bethlehem, Lehigh Valley), our entire south side of Bethlehem is looking to set up Wireless access to everyone down there. I don't think they'd use streetlights like NY plans to, but we have mountains and big hills right here and I think they'd use those.
	permalink · 2004-09-17 11:26:34 ·

telarium join:2004-02-28 Saint Louis, MO	Re: Wi-Fi is here people I work on the Executive Committee there, and I have heard a peep about Wi-Fi in Bethlehem. Now, maybe Lehigh might offer it - but I doubt that plan will ever come to fruition. Brad
	permalink · 2004-09-17 11:29:10 ·

korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

It's supposedly coming, Brad. One of the reporters at the Morning Call contacted me recently about contributing to an article she's working on about it.

I had looked into a wireless hotzone model for a neighboring town via my hotspot/hotzone model but, alas, it never came to fruition.

To self-contradict what I just said, I've been having my doubts that the Valley might not be as ready for this type of technology as I wish. Anyone care to prove me wrong?

Regards,
Kory
--
WISP & Wi-Fi Hotspot Industry News

permalink · 2004-09-17 12:29:49 · Print ·

korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:

Yeah, what they would probably do is coordinate an effort on South Mountain, for example, on AT&T's repeater to shoot back down into the Valley for coverage while, at the same time, shooting up from the Valley the backhaul to redeploy the signal across the subscribers.

Another idea would be to approach one of the mansion owners on the mountain, offer them free access in exchange for placing the retransmission antennas somewhere on their property. The antennas used are no larger than a typical cell antenna and can be quite inobtrusive.

Anyone want to try it out?

Regards,
Kory
--
WISP & Wi-Fi Hotspot Industry News

permalink · 2004-09-17 13:07:32 · Print ·

tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs:

·RoadRunner Cable

said by dadkins :
Wires are so last century, connectivity without wires is WAY better. I can(and do) connect at many shops in the Bay Area, to freely offered access. No need to piggyback onto someones access point illegally.

Gotta love laptops!

I can't believe people used to connect to the Internet with wires. Seems so silly now that I look back on it, kind of like the horse and carriage or the model T.

permalink · 2004-09-17 11:59:39 · Print ·

Skippy25 join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO	Re: Wi-Fi is here people Depends on what you do. For simply surfing the web and such it is fine as packet loss and restranmission of dropped packets really have no effect. But personally I think wireless blows and would never use it for my core use (gaming). Nor would I use it for things I think require security like online banking and online purchases.
	permalink · 2004-09-17 12:30:44 ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

·Comcast

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

said by Skippy25 :
Depends on what you do. For simply surfing the web and such it is fine as packet loss and restranmission of dropped packets really have no effect. But personally I think wireless blows and would never use it for my core use (gaming). Nor would I use it for things I think require security like online banking and online purchases.

I use it every day, hell, it's all I use.

When you have a latency of nil at 100', gaming is not a problem. From my router to the first hop is only 5ms, max latency from me to almost anywhere in the U.S. is 73ms...:D
--
Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out.

permalink · 2004-09-17 12:56:42 · Print ·

NetEffects

join:2002-03-05
michigan

Exactly! I have helped several small companies add internet access/networks. I have always strongly advised against wireless. Not only the performance issues but more importantly security. Usually starting my laptop ends the discussion. When all the neighbors SSID's start showing up, the realization that this information, passwords or not, is not contained in the office.

This brings me to another question about this whole wireless deployment. I am not referring to subscriber wireless, like I use, but open 'hot-spot' style. The wireless network I use at home is on a separate network from the rest of my pc's. Hidden behind a firewall, SSID off, WEP Encryption, and AV software. Still, I know it is vulnerable if a hacker really gave it a try. But, why would they if cities deploy 'hot-spot' style service. Everyone with their laptops connected without even a NAT?

It seems strange that these forums argue how a 128 WEP key can easily be cracked in less than 2 weeks while others are ready to open their PC's to everyone who cares to listen.
--
Im not an electrical engineer, but I play one on TV.

permalink · 2004-09-17 13:02:29 · Print ·

DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

·Charter Pipeline

St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Assuming they are talking about only in the City limits, that seems like an extremely high density...especially when it will only be used to lure more people to living downtown.

Nice idea, but completely half baked. How about they tear down the empty vacant homes and build up residential areas first? Fix my alley? How about doing more to give people a reason to stay in downtown after 5 pm.

--
] :: my trivial ramblings :: [

permalink · 2004-09-17 11:40:05 · Print ·

b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:

·TTNet

1 edit

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

LOL, right to the point if you know STL

.

Some changes have occurded tho in STL in the past 10 years. After the local gov expelled every one out with their ridiculous taxes and such back in the 80's.

The city has been developing the Washington street area, luring "developers" to revamp old factory-like buildings for the STL condo/loft elite... St. Louis city after 5pm, as you say, is still dead. (Unless everything changed since my last visit 6months ago).

Get the companies moving back, clean up the streets, put cops on the streets and build incentives to bring small shops back to the city... then go for Wi-Fi... in that order please...

Edit:
BTW, NYC has the 18K street lamps, not STL (ref. to the article

)
--

UWB over Wire is the future!
3Plink.com |Voice|Video|Data|

permalink · 2004-09-17 12:26:17 · Print ·

DaSneaky1D one wall to block them all Premium,MVM join:2001-03-29 The Lou ·Charter Pipeline	Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights? Oops, looks like I read that wrong...but my point still stands. StL doesn't need this. The area has changed and is getting better. The schools are horrid though. I agree, if those did improve, then the quality of life will draw people back, draw businesses back and really revitalize the area. -- ] :: my trivial ramblings :: [
	permalink · 2004-09-17 12:49:45 ·

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

said by DaSneaky1D :
How about doing more to give people a reason to stay in downtown after 5 pm.

I usually do my best to get out of downtown before five. As a person who grew up in the city and left for the outskirts of the county, the main reason most people leave is simple, the schools are awful. Instead of fixing the schools they try to bus the city kids out to the county. Fix the city schools (and there are a host of reasons why this never happens) and people will be much more likely to want to live in the city. When people come, business will follow.

Really, except for the people who work downtown and clear out at night, I'm thinking most people that live in the city of St. Louis won't have any use for Wi-Fi.

permalink · 2004-09-17 12:34:13 · Print ·

b_zen Premium join:2002-07-24 Saint Louis, MO clubs: ·TTNet	Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights? said by footballdude : said by DaSneaky1D : Fix the city schools (and there are a host of reasons why this never happens) and people will be much more likely to want to live in the city. Expand please. I'd like to know what you think... -- UWB over Wire is the future! 3Plink.com \|Voice\|Video\|Data\|
	permalink · 2004-09-17 12:55:33 · Print ·

DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

·Charter Pipeline

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Though you misapplied your quote, I'll give some insight...

You do realize that there were quite the number of schools that were closed this year. The city school system has lost its accreditation. True, they are trying to turn things back around, but the school system is still awful.

If the schools are improved, it is because they have their backs against the walls because deseg busing is completely ending in a few years. City schools will have a huge influx of new students. So, it's like a "too little, too late" scenario.

People are less likely to move into an area with no local schools and then send their kids to a school with over crowded classrooms. I live in the city, and I wouldn't do that.
--
] :: my trivial ramblings :: [

permalink · 2004-09-17 13:07:17 · Print ·

David No,there is another. Premium,VIP join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL clubs:	Agreed On all points of saint louis, They still have a big slumlord problem as well. Fix the city first.... I still drive downtown and still see a panhandler as least one per block..
	permalink · 2004-09-17 13:24:50 ·

b_zen Premium join:2002-07-24 Saint Louis, MO clubs: ·TTNet	Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights? no, no, no... I don't know where you felt i Misquoted you... I wanted the other guy to expand, not you... But it's a forum, and your thoughts are welcomed. So thank you for responding I hope to hear more from you, as you are there 100% presumably. F. -- UWB over Wire is the future! 3Plink.com \|Voice\|Video\|Data\|
	permalink · 2004-09-17 13:47:16 ·

DaSneaky1D one wall to block them all Premium,MVM join:2001-03-29 The Lou ·Charter Pipeline	Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights? The quote was wrapped around my name, not footballdude 's. I only live in StL, but I'm not there 100% of the time. Enough of my money goes to them to not see wireless expantion as necessary, though -- ] :: my trivial ramblings :: [
	permalink · 2004-09-17 14:10:54 ·

b_zen Premium join:2002-07-24 Saint Louis, MO clubs: ·TTNet	Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights? said by DaSneaky1D : The quote was wrapped around my name, not footballdude 's. I only live in StL, but I'm not there 100% of the time. Enough of my money goes to them to not see wireless expantion as necessary, though What he said... I'm in the same boat... -- UWB over Wire is the future! 3Plink.com \|Voice\|Video\|Data\|
	permalink · 2004-09-17 14:14:38 · Print ·

footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

said by b_zen :

said by footballdude :

said by DaSneaky1D :
Fix the city schools (and there are a host of reasons why this never happens) and people will be much more likely to want to live in the city.

Expand please. I'd like to know what you think...

Since I bailed out twenty five years ago, I'm no longer intimately involved in the city school problem. It does appear that the school board either has no clue what to do or are too busy pursuing personal agendas to care. It's unlikely that impetus will come from the top, since St. Louis city is pretty much 100% Democrat. Meaning that anyone that can appease the party insiders will be rubber stamped by the city voters as long as they have a D by their name. That kind of situation doesn't lead to thoughtful reformers, but to crooks and con men gaining power.

permalink · 2004-09-17 19:40:39 · Print ·

quisp65

join:2003-05-03
San Diego, CA

This might screw competitive progress

The government getting involved in the ISP business is too close to comfort for me. Its just a vote away from your taxes paying for it and then less private ISPs will want to do business in St. Louis. Why would a wireless ISP (802.16) or Charter want to spend lots of money upgrading their city infrastructure when people are getting free or nearly free tax supported 384/128 ( whatever, low quality) wireless.

permalink · 2004-09-17 17:58:53 ·

MindBender

join:2001-06-26
House Springs, MO

Wake Up St. Louis

St. Louis is way off base wanting to get into the wISP market. As said they can't even keep the schools or the city itself up to par.

Typically the reason why WiFi is deployed in cities is that
they don't have Broadband. Thats not the case in St. Louis.

St. Louis has a multitude of Broadband available. SBC and Charter are all over.. if by chance SBC or Charter aren't available to you the city is "already" covered by WiFi access. If the city did setup WiFi I would expect that it would be ran just like the city itself is.

We have avoided setting up WiFi access in St. Louis because its already saturated with fixed wireless. We opted to head for the out laying areas that are under served. Festus, Pevely, Horine, Barnhart, Antonia etc.. Its the out laying cities that need WiFi.

In short fix the School system, knock down the old crack house buildings, and get our Ball Park done!

permalink · 2004-09-21 05:17:37 · Print ·

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Forums » St. Louis Wi-Fi


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Wait a little bit?

Re: Wait a little bit?

Re: Wait a little bit?

Re: Wait a little bit?

Wi-Fi is here people

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

Re: Wi-Fi is here people

St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Agreed

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

Re: St. Louis has 18,000 street lights?

This might screw competitive progress

Wake Up St. Louis