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story category Utilities Skeptical About BPL
Industry doesn't share rampant optimism
(old news - 03:59PM Tuesday Oct 26 2004)
tags: BPL
Broadband over Power lines (BPL): FCC commissioner Mike Powell thinks it's a competition cure-all, and the number crunchers at utilities see it as a new profit source. But as CED Magazine notes, the utilities who will actually be deploying these systems are "overwhelmingly skeptical". Out of 160 investor-owned utilities in the United States, dozens have conducted BPL trials, but only one (Cinergy Corp. in Cincinnati) exited the trials with plans for further expansion.

Related:
  1. FCC, Hams Spar Over Powerline Broadband
  2. Tasmanian BPL Trial Scrapped
  3. BPL is Back with a New Face
  4. Princeton IL Completes BPL Network
  5. DirecTV, Current Offer Broadband Over Powerline
  6. Court Agrees with ARRL in FCC BPL Issue
  7. Broadband Over Powerline (BPL) Stumbles
  8. BPL: Only 4,776 Subscribers
Forums » Utilities Skeptical About BPL
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Iceman4u2
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Rochester, NY

Let the broadband speeds speed across the lines

I hope this works out. People need choices, and this is a another possible way to get broadband. If it fails..then it will be tweaked and tinkered with. ILECS should be on their toes.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
clubs:
·ProLog

Re: Let the broadband speeds speed across the line

said by Iceman4u2 See Profile:

I hope this works out. People need choices, and this is a another possible way to get broadband. If it fails..then it will be tweaked and tinkered with. ILECS should be on their toes.
You already have cable, satellite, wireless and dsl. How much choice do you need?

felix_j
K I 4 I L U
Premium
join:2004-08-24
Harrisonburg, VA
·Comcast

Re: Let the broadband speeds speed across the line

DSL: Low availability outside major metro areas
Cable: Better than DSL, but still not enough availability
Satellite: Not cost-effective, slow and expensive
Wireless: New technology, still blossoming
BPL: Expensive, slow, high RF interferance
Fiber: Still spreading, long range for low cost.

-----

DSL, Cable, and BPL (if it doesn't die) will continue to be confined to major metro areas. Satellite is hampered by the laws of physics, Fiber is hampered by laziness of investors, and Wireless isn't seen as a viable option by everyone. So, for those who aren't in major metro areas, two of the three options are still growing and aren't getting the attention they deserve, and Satellite needs to curl up and die unless quantum physicists can come up with a way to increase the speed of light.

broadbandless in sea



You already have cable, satellite, wireless and dsl. How much choice do you need?
I have no wireless, cable or DSL providers that service my house. Unless you count $8000.00 to install cable (yes that is the real quote from the cable company), or iDSL which is expensive and slow (and doesn't qualify as broadband).

So if BPL can serve me I'm interested.

Yes I could get satellite but it is relatively expensive and the latency makes it useless for some applications such as VPNs and games.

dandeman

join:2001-12-05
Chapel Hill, NC
·AT&T Southeast


edit:
October 28th, @09:34PM

I followed the field trials pretty closely in the Raleigh, North Carolina area, with Progress Energy. It was pretty trying to fill the holes in swiss cheese in terms of solving the interference problems..

Sorry guys, interferencing with other over the air services given the limited frequency bandwidth available by trying to use power lines that were never designed to be RF transmission lines (antennas, maybe) is not going to cut it...

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast


edit:
October 26th, @03:29PM

Power companies just don't want into telecomm

Power companies just don't want to spend the capital dollars to try and get into a business their management teams don't really understand. The only way this will ever work is if the power companies can find a way to lease access to their infrastructure to companies that want to provide telecomm services over power lines.

Come visit the Red Room forum
Iceman4u2
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Rochester, NY

Re: Power companies just don't want into telecomm

How do you know? Are you speaking for All Power companys?? I think you need to put away your broad stroke of a brush and get a number 2 pencil.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Power companies just don't want into telecomm

said by Iceman4u2 See Profile:

How do you know? Are you speaking for All Power companys?? I think you need to put away your broad stroke of a brush and get a number 2 pencil.
Did you read the news item referenced. The power companies basically said they aren't interested.
Dozens of utilities that ran trials of the service in the last three years took a pass on making a business venture of it.

"This is not our core business," said Deborah Drew, a spokeswoman for Massachusetts Electric Co., the state's biggest utility with 1.3 million customers. "We think it works, but we certainly wouldn't want to be in the business of being an Internet service provider."

"You also need to talk about whether there's a business model for coming in late with what is basically a me-too broadband service," said Matt Davis, an analyst with The Yankee Group in Boston. Because of lingering bitterness over their disastrous 1990s forays into telecom, like NStar's big losses in RCN, Davis said he thinks many utilities' investors are pressuring them to steer clear of running broadband networks, even if they use their existing electric lines.

Mass. Electric's Drew said that while the Westborough-based utility has no interest in providing Net service directly, it would be open to a partnership with a provider like EarthLink. "We're open to talking to ISPs," Drew said. "We'd basically take a landlord approach and rent out space on our lines, but we wouldn't participate in providing the service."

--
Come visit the Red Room forum
Bush/Cheney 2004
When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.- Winston Churchill
Iceman4u2
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Rochester, NY

Re: Power companies just don't want into telecomm

Did you read the article???? It said "nearly 160 investor owned", not ALL POWER COMPANIES as your broad brush painted for us. There are companies that are moving forward with this and private owned utility companies investing in this.

SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

Re: Power companies just don't want into telecomm

If that's your only point then drop it. Lets not argue semantics here.
KB2PSM

join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY


edit:
October 26th, @03:51PM

Iceman4u2,
I don't want to appear argumentative, but you seem to be guided by the hope of this working while wearing blinders with regards to the facts.

Don't just react...do the research.
More choice is great, I am with you on that...but faulty choices (search for the many threads at BBR to see what I mean), do not make the mix better or more attractive.

The previous poster is right. If the power line companies wanted a piece of the profit, without promoting an RF polluting and globally "tried and failed" technology, they could have offered their poles for lease, or help to finance/build someone else's cutting-edge and non-intrusive fiber optic infrastructure.

Be well,
Rob

neosolace
Stay In It

join:2003-08-25
Verbena, AL

Re: Power companies just don't want into telecomm

True. From what I have seen, BPL looks like a good idea, but it looks to be a band-aid (even if it did work flawlessly). I don't have access to broadband, but I'd still rather see something more feasible used for rural deployment, like possibly wimax or even just plain old wifi.
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

PECO (Philadelphia division of the power company Exelon) tried to make a go at it as a CLEC, a joint venture with Adelphia (a bit that split off before the fall), but they sold out their stake to their partner (now TelCove). As far as I know PECO has had nothing to do with BPL. I believe this is a fiber network.

roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
·Voicepulse Connect
·Teliax VOIP
·Speed Factory
·Cingular Wireless

Re: Power companies just don't want into telecomm

said by russotto See Profile:

PECO (Philadelphia division of the power company Exelon) tried to make a go at it as a CLEC, a joint venture with Adelphia (a bit that split off before the fall), but they sold out their stake to their partner (now TelCove). As far as I know PECO has had nothing to do with BPL. I believe this is a fiber network.
you'd be correct...

-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend

No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/
BBWEST

join:2004-09-05
Port Angeles, WA

It is very expensive to deploy correctly

BPL is almost as expensive as FTTN not H to deploy correctly meaning Filters and tuning and truck rolls.
Plus it really doesn't work that well in rural areas.

Sorry not negative just the facts.
Iceman4u2
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Rochester, NY


edit:
October 26th, @04:36PM

Re: It is very expensive to deploy correctly

See...this is where your reading has FAILED you. If you read what the article said " it said investor owned (STOCK TRADED) companies were not interested. Business models can change, and to these that can and want to chance a hit on there bottom line with the hope of ROI in a 5 years here is a vehicle to invest in.

I'm not blinded, as some poster stated, I wish all technology's have a chance to grow. I'm a network engineer, and see the change face of technology and cutting edge. Saw it when we were doing routing for IP6 at the Universities for Internet 2. Worked it for the testing of MPLS 5 years ago, when we were in labs testing the idea with Cisco.
All I'm saying was the poster should not use broad stroke statements to speak for ALL POWER COMPANIES. Especially when the article states INVESTOR OWN POWER COMPANIES.

SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: It is very expensive to deploy correctly

The largest power companies out there are publicly owned. Do you have the list of privately owned ones that are interested in implementing after trials? If the big companies with the large revenue streams coming in to help absorb that up-front cost don't see a lot of incentive the smaller ones will have a hard time to as well.

From what I've been reading BPL under its current state won't be able to compete with the other broadband technologies for that long a time. Unless something is done to improve bandwidth speeds, interference issues and high cost of ownership this idea will be dead in the water in just a few years.
KB2PSM

join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY

said by Iceman4u2 See Profile:

I'm not blinded, as some poster stated, I wish all technology's have a chance to grow.
Hey, I (we!) are with you on that point. The technology should grow. -BUT- BPL is NOT a technologically sound method of providing broadband. To embrace it, simply because it may be another offering does not excuse all of its detriments. The technology should grow and fiber seems to still be the holy grail. Other methods such as WiMax also may hold promise, but the electric companies wouldn't want/embrace it since it takes away the piece of pie they are looking for.

CheeseWare
Premium
join:2003-04-24
Burnaby, BC

Who is not skeptical?

Other than the truly desperate for broadband at all cost (i.e. FCC, unserved/underserved subscribers), is there really anyone not sceptical? It costs an arm and a leg to deploy, has got no substantial trial to this day, has got no roadmap, no scalability, no throughput, and huge RF interference disruption risks.

If utilities really want to take advantage of their right of way and get into telecoms for their own network needs, they really should look at other access technologies.

roamer1
sticking it out at you

join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
·Voicepulse Connect
·Teliax VOIP
·Speed Factory
·Cingular Wireless

With good reason...

BPL requires "jumpering" of transformers, which absorb RF, and unlike in Europe and NYC (which is a rather special case), where many electric customers may be served by one transformer, in most parts of the US only a handful (as few as one or two in many rural areas) of electric customers are served by a single transformer. Therefore, deploying BPL in the US tends to be extremely troublesome and costly, because of the need to jumper transformers all over the place. This pretty much keeps BPL out of rural areas, the very areas that need broadband.

Hybrid BPL/wireless approaches (using BPL as "trunks" to neighborhood wireless stations) like the recently concluded Progress Energy trial in Raleigh help alleviate some of the cost by permitting the electric company to jumper fewer transformers, but coverage is necessarily more limited.

-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend

No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/

Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY


edit:
October 26th, @07:38PM

It is going just the way....

I thought it would. It is the money that is going to kill this turkey. Investors have once been burned by the Dot-Com's and this looks very much like that. When you crunch the numbers, the cost of installation, the limitations of bandwidth, the potential of damage from electrical ingress, Idiots plugging their computer into a wall socket without the modem, etc
will throw any smart investor off. I have no doubt utility engineers don't want to have anything to do with BPL either.
--
»www.gobpl.com
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: It is going just the way....

But didn't someone else *cough* Kamper *cough* see the numbers and thought they looked "attractive?" (insert sarcasm here)

Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: It is going just the way....

If you look a the cash flow in BPL it is almost like a pyramid scheme. the ones who started it are in the money but the later investors will loose.
--
»www.gobpl.com

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable


edit:
October 27th, @07:07AM

As a "utility engineer", I'll have to agree with you. BPL isn't part of our core business and to integrate that into an electric utility business model, would require significant investment in personnel and equipment. I'm sure some utilities will consider it, but I frankly would prefer to divest myself of involvement in it.

In the past 8 years, we've had so much other crap added to our respective plates (thanks to FERC 888, 889), I don't even want to think about having to coordinate transmission and/or distribution outages to also keep communications available for grandma checking her email from the grandkids. We already have some rights-of-way with fibre embedded static wire that's utilized by outside companies for long distance services. It makes working on those transmission lines more cumbersome.

Maybe BPL is a promising technology for those who have no other options, and maybe some day it will get developed enough to be simple, but for now, my primary concern is keeping the lights on and anything that interferes with energizing and de-energizing transmission/distribution affects reliability.
--
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

country boy

@wvnet.edu

Seems like you have some experience with plugging in a computer without a modem-- It's called a POWER cord.

Rural Electric Power was brought about by rural co-ops(owned by customers)--not investors looking to make a buck.

21 years ago most of the items you reference were not at issue--Because Ma Bell still had a strangle hold on the communications industry. Ma Bell was not going to allow ANY competition.

My money is (and always has been)on the free enterprise system, and not on the nay-saying "experts".
Forums » Utilities Skeptical About BPL


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