 
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ |  Blame the stupid voters
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 | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Blame the stupid voters said by TKJunkMail  :Don't blame SBC and Comcast for looking out for their best interests. Blame the stupid voters for buying any line of BS that these 2 threw out. That's a lot to expect from the average American... Analyzing claims and who makes them seems to be a dying skill.
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SHUTUP!
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
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Unclehomer
@focaldata.net
|  Re: Blame the stupid voters
The FTTH folks never published any business plan nor did they provide any information about the possibility of investing in there idea.
They only wanted the taxpayers to pick up the tab for there expensive hi tech toys that less than 40% of the local residents would have ever utilized.
One arguement was that "Johnny" would be able to do his home work faster but the FTTH folks never bothered to explain to the unknowing parents that they would have to invest in high tech computers, modems, cableing, monitors and software for "Johnny" to take advantage of these high tech toys.
It was defeated because FTTH could never answer an honest question with an honest answer. Always answered questions with more questions and a direct answer was never in there game plan because they (FTTH) wanted the taxpayers to pick up the tab.
The arguement that the cities of Geneva, St Charles and Batavia operate there only electric department never held water because the cities have no experience in providing entertainment to the masses.
May the FTTH rest in peace and never rear its ugly head again even though they mumbled something about the election being unfair.
The election was only unfair to those voters who wanted the taxpayers to pickup the tab for there high tech toys | |
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: Blame the stupid voters Lies Unclehomer...and I call BS on you. It was actually SBC who was at the County calling the election "unfair" also, along with several election judges and voters from precincts who got the broadband question who were ineligible to have the question on their ballots. However, if people got the question who were not supposed to have it, then that IS unfair, and a new election should be called.
Say what you will Unclehomer about no business plan as well, but there was a feasibility study done for 2003's election (750 pages worth) and there were always direct answers given. Just because you don't listen to any of the answers doesn't mean they weren't given.
It should always tell voters something that the PRESIDENT of SBC ILLINOIS and NETWORK PRESIDENT OF SBC were brought in to debate the head of the citizen's group (a housewife (meaning no disrespect)from Batavia, IL). Not to mention the big guns from Comcast! Do you think those folks from SBC and Comcast were the honest ones telling the truth to the residents to the Tri-Cities? HECK NO! Then they thought that looked a little heavy handed so Comcast hired a local media consultant to represent them to make them look more "community friendly"....turns out this guy also writes for the Kane County Chronicle in town and happened to be the only guy who had ever written in the paper as a columnist against the broadband issue. HMMMMMMMMMMM. Thing is, he never disclosed to his readers that he was working for Comcast. I hope the KCC continues to take heat for it's very poor discision not to disclose this fact that their writer Bill Page continued to write stories up until Aug. 19 about broadband then work for Comcast (he was first noticed out in public at a Comcast event Sept. 8th).
People like Unclehomer aren't visionary and certainly aren't even rational. Heck, Unclehomer doesn't even see the cities have been providing life critical services to the Tri-Cities for over 130+ years! But he is concerned about entertainment services. IT WAS A CHOICE FOR SERVICES! And we already know how to splice fiber....we have fiber rings in our three towns, we have for years. So, Unclehomer, either get with the times, get a clue, get a life or whatever. But I will not let you spread BS like this to others all over the country.
This was never a tax risk. The questions specifically prohibited taxes from being used. Readers/posters here are certainly savvy enough to know what FFOF was trying to accomplish here. Just because SBC and Comcast can outspend and steamroll grass roots initiatives does not mean that what THEY are saying is the truth. In fact, what they are saying is everything BUT the truth!
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Well unclehomer, as against this project as I was, I must say you sound more like someone with a personal vendetta than someone with an honest disagreement.
What FFOF had against them was, had this measure passed in its original form, it would have put taxpayers at risk. Tricities backpedaled and changed it only after the voters had a fit. Comcast and SBC notwithstanding, TCBB helped poison their own well and blew their only real chance to get this off the ground.
They also failed to explain why, if they had private money, did this need to go before the voters in the first place? The best answer I could get from anyone on this message board was that "the investors want it that way," and "the municipality has a good name," both of which are remarkably weak reasons for putting voters through this.
I'd like to see the TCBB movement go forward without the government. They have their own money and support of city leaders, so what's stopping them?
As for you unclehomer, lighten up. No matter what, they are sincere, concerned folks who are not out to lie or screw anyone over. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be against this without getting dramatic.
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Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
| Re: Blame the stupid voters Thanks Mo. I sincerely appreciate your comments today. I know we sit on opposite sides of philosophy on this one (to put it mildly-HA!), but, you are right, we are not out to screw anyone. Now, how about that beer we always talked about sometime? 
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It's muni-licious! »www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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| dustman81
join:2002-05-28
Tallmadge, OH
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| $60,000? Huh, funny that they would rather spend that money on propegenda instead of actually investing it in their infostructure. If they actually cared about their infostructure and customers, they wouldn't be having the threat of a muni telco/cable company. | |
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vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD | Taxpayer money for private projects Whats the difference between this and stadiums? | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Taxpayer money for private projects Stadiums use taxpayer money, and this FTTH project doesn't  | |
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| | vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| Re: Taxpayer money for private projects said by DaSneaky1D :Stadiums use taxpayer money, and this FTTH project doesn't And yet FTTH has encountered more opposition than a mother?
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Taxpayer money for private projects Yup. But you see, companies like SBC and Comcast can have the stadiums named after them and market in there everywhere.
That, my friend, is the irony.
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| | | | vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
1 edit | Re: Taxpayer money for private projects said by DaSneaky1D :Yup. But you see, companies like SBC and Comcast can have the stadiums named after them and market in there everywhere. That, my friend, is the irony. Exactly. But do the people who are voting for and against FTTH realize this?
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Taxpayer money for private projects Nope. The most powerful proporganda tools are fear and the dollar. The big companies are very well trained in using both (together).
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | 10,000/10,000 for $40 or 3000/256 for $58.95? which would YOU choose? LOL!
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
1 edit | More like... "An informed misinformed electorate will always make the right decision," says Comcast spokesperson Angie Amores.
It is obvious that these large corporations will lie about anything and everything to get what they want. They know they have the money and power to control people and they have no morals or ethics left to stop themselves. | |
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wavguy2003
370's Forever
Premium
join:2004-03-18
Saint Charles, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: More like... I live in St. Charles and the *crap* that SBC and Comcast threw out in the newspapers was disgusting.
The level of FUD was amazing. The reason the referendum failed was money. Pure and simple. Comcast and SBC can afford to spend any amount needed to protect their turf while Fiber for our Future had little in the way of funds and couldn't get the message out. So they couldn't battle the Comcast/SBC fudfest.
The $60,000 is not the real figure. It'll go *way* over that once all the bills come in. It could easily go way over $100,000.
It was Money, Money Money. SBC and Comcast don't want competition and will spend any amount of money to prevent it. | |
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| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: More like... The sweetest Irony was the bill price increase that people saw after the damn prop was shot down. And yet they were stupid enough to not do it. That my friend is pure irony.
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oroper
Patriots Rule
join:2004-06-01
Beverly, MA | I hope they succeed Nuff said:D | |
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jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
1 edit | Democracy Who would even think of a political system where the people actually get to express their opinion and decide on issues?
The people elected George Bush - obviously we should not trust the people to decide who should be president.
The people decided they didn't want fiber in their future (sounds like a dietary supplement) - again obviously not a decision to be trusted the the people.
What a bunch of whiners. If you are so opposed to the democratic process, move to a non-democratic country.
Edit: Didn't David triumph?!
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NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. | |
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KerryStillSucks
@149.152.x.x
| Re: Democracy quote:
The people elected George Bush - obviously we should not trust the people to decide who should be president.
quote:
What a bunch of whiners. If you are so opposed to the democratic process, move to a non-democratic country.
Maybe you should take your own advice. | |
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KerryStillSucks
@149.152.x.x | Re: Democracy Unless, of course, that was sarcasm you were trying to express. | |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Idiots Being offered fiber to the home, cheap, the DREAM of technologically aware people for 20 years, and they reject it because of a free Hallmark card. They must love cable's rate structure.
»www.tricitybroadband.com/2004.htm
I only wish more municipalities had this much gumption, to even have offered these stupid, stupid people this possibility.
Undeserving twits.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: Idiots said by B :Undeserving twits. Not everybody who opposed this is an "idiot": many oppose government competition with private industry, and I would have voted against it in my town even though I am neither "connected with the telcos" nor "an idiot". The government rarely does a better job than private industry, but in any case many oppose this on principle. That doesn't make somebody "a twit".
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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id10Terror
@165.236.x.x | Re: Idiots so maybe your company could do a better job? c'mon. | |
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| | wiggles4
join:2004-10-09
Eugene, OR
1 edit | said by B :The government rarely does a better job than private industry... Didn't the United States put a man on the moon over 40 years ago? Private industry will never do anything that won't assure them a profit, which leaves out a whole lot. | |
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| | | electric_dsl
join:2004-07-20
Pickering, ON | Re: Idiots The only reason NASA did that is because they are a massive monopoly that operates at a loss to keep private business out of the space business. | |
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| | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
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But, Steve! There IS no direct competition for cable-style services! DSL is a joke -- the bandwidth's just not there.
This would have BEEN the competition that is supposed to make the market fairer and better.
The same "principle" of disliking government-run utilities (which I am not alien to) should be the same principle that abhors de facto monopolies.
If you ignore the realities, a cable and broadband monopoly that has complete control over what you pay for a service, in favor of a principle (that government "rarely" does better), I just don't think you're being reasonable.
-- B
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: Idiots said by B :The same "principle" of disliking government-run utilities (which I am not alien to) should be the same principle that abhors de facto monopolies. I'm not a fan of de facto monopolies either, but this is what happens with cities have exclusive franchise arrangements for years: this all militates towards less government involvement, not more.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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| | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Idiots
Perhaps, but I really don't the government is standing between me and cheaper broadband! Rather, I think the ominous spectre of investing in infrastructure is what keeps any single-sourced wired competition at bay.
I'm viewing this quite practically -- in this case there is a viable proposed competitor in the marketplace, and it only happens to be sponsored via a public initiative. Their web page claims their current plan is ENTIRELY financed through private sector investment, with NO taxpayer dollars.
I just don't see objecting to this simply because the government is involved. I quite like having roads to drive on, sidewalks, a police force and military, and so on. And as you imply, the government was damn well involved in Comcast's ascendancy to this monopoly to begin with.
More to the point, government initiatives are involved in all KINDS of effort to foster private industry, successfully or not. "Economic incentive zones", sales tax wars, etc. If there's no reasonable prospect of a single private competitor starting from scratch, what's wrong with government jump-starting the project, for the benefit of citizens, in an effort to level a skewed playing field created by the "exclusive franchise arrangements" you bemoan?
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Idiots said by B :If there's no reasonable prospect of a single private competitor starting from scratch, what's wrong with government jump-starting the project, for the benefit of citizens, in an effort to level a skewed playing field created by the "exclusive franchise arrangements" you bemoan? Hello, Steve ? That wasn't a rhetorical question; I was wondering how you'd answer...
-- B
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lyls
@tele.dk | americans always believe that private is good and government is evil... i think the truth lies somewhere in between | |
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| | Urzumph
join:2002-11-06
Australia | Tell that to telstra. It's gone down hill ever since it was privatized (and it's not even fully privatized yet) | |
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