 11337845
Live free or die
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA
1 edit | Uhhhh? the company's primary interest: offering power customers instantaneous access to their power consumption data. Not like a calculator and two measurements an hour apart couldn't do the same thing. Are you kidding me?
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We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men. | |
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 | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
| Re: Uhhhh? The BBR synopsis is a little misleading. If you read the article you will see the real goal is minute my minute pricing. Eventually the price of electricity will be higher in the middle of a hot summer day than in the middle of the night. Encouraging people to operate their discretionary appliances like dish washers and washing machines during off peak hours is one way to reduce the overall peak power plant capacity requirements. | |
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| | 11337845
Live free or die
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA
| Re: Uhhhh? So it's not for the customers as much as for the company? If I understand you correctly, they wish to use this technology to do two things: All but eliminate meter readers and charge more for peak usage vs. non-peak usage. Is that the gist of it?
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We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men. | |
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| | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA | Re: Uhhhh? You got it! | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Qwest.net
| Re: Uhhhh? Yes and they will be able to shut down your air conditioner,
and any thing else they think is using to much power at your house, or barring this they will get laws passed so they can do the same thing except fine you for their illegal use.
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Real Men use Vacuum tubes, 25 pound filament transformers, and plate voltages no less then 2400 volts...BPL I'm coming to get you | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Re: Uhhhh? said by Transmaster  :Yes and they will be able to shut down your air conditioner, And anything else they think is using to much power at your house[snip] Now how would one do that? Last I looked AC units don't have remote capabilities through the power line. Show Me one unit that does this or fold.
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»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: Uhhhh? Oh this is one of the things the power companies, Microsoft and embedded CPU's manufacturers are pushing for the so-call Internet capable home appliance. To the consumer they are selling the Internet angle, the power companies are looking at the control angle.
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Real Men use Vacuum tubes, 25 pound filament transformers, and plate voltages no less then 2400 volts...BPL I'm coming to get you | |
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| | | | | | | 11337845
Live free or die
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA
| Re: Uhhhh? Easy solution to your tinfoil suggestion: Plug networked appliances into your own firewalled LAN. I'd like to see the power company try and hack someone's router.
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We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | Re: Uhhhh? Carrier is in the final stages of marketing an Internet enabled thermostat the chip set is being designed and build by Emware. Samsung has an Internet connected frig' and there is even a microwave that is connected.
All it will take is coding and some extra parts and any such device will be remote controllable.
»www.comfortchoice.carrier.com/de···SSION=NO
»www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,a···4,00.asp
Having said all of this. There is no way in hell I would let any such thing in my house!
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Real Men use Vacuum tubes, 25 pound filament transformers, and plate voltages no less then 2400 volts...BPL I'm coming to get you
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| | | | | | | | | 11337845
Live free or die
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Seattle, WA
| Re: Uhhhh? You might consider changing your avatar. 
Art Bell's #1 fan
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
2 edits | Re: Uhhhh? Na old fat freddie is an old school stoner, his brain is already fried on dope. RF would have no impact.:D | |
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zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| said by Transmaster :Oh this is one of the things the power companies, Microsoft and embedded CPU manufacturers are pushing for the so-call Internet capable home appliance. To the consumer they are selling the Internet angle, the power companies are looking at the control angle. Well that may be so, But the ability to turn off an appliance remotely has as about as much chance of becoming real as someone filling up the Grand Canyon on Mars with Liquid water anytime soon. If It were done, People would bypass It somehow. Me I'm not worried, As It would be a paranoid thought to Me. Think what You like, If You so feel like It.
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»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ | |
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| | | | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: HHS? said by zoom314 : But the ability to turn off an appliance remotely has as about as much chance of becoming real as someone filling up the Grand Canyon on Mars with Liquid water anytime soon. That capability has been implemented on a voluntary basis in exchange for lower rates for decades. They install a small radio-controlled relay on your air conditioner. Some folks opt for "interruptible rates" which allow the power company to shut you down entirely for a couple of hours. This isn't as exotic as you may think.
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The revolution will not go better with Coke. | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL | Re: HHS? correct, we have a small box on our air conditioner for just this purpose... although in the 12+ years its been there they have never turned it off
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BellSouth sucks | |
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| NetEng_Dude
join:2004-07-17 | SDG&E needs to stick to delivering electrical power. BPL is JUNK Internet technology. In this case California rate payers will end up paying for the BPL fiasco. Just say no to BPL. Buyer beware. | |
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
 ·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Good For Them If San Diego Gas & Electric can deploy BPL and make it work, then thumbs up to them.
There are a lot of people who will bash San Diego Gas & Electric or the BPL concept in general; but if it works (and people subscribe to it), BPL will be here to stay.
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glidereric
join:2001-12-06
Seattle, WA | BPL Unfortunately they won't be able to violate the laws of physics.. I'm just amazed how far these guys are trying to push a FAILED technology!
The dumb are getting dumber..... | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: BPL i can see all the liberals running to their phones, calling their lawyers and saying their privacy has been violated
are they doing this solely for the prospect of monitoring equipment or to provide future broadband?
i dont think a city as big as that needs any MORE providers
did they miss something with the interference issues or does this not apply to non broadband usage?
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Read this! | |
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JmGx
join:2003-04-08
San Diego, CA
1 edit |  Price/Speed?
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jgr5266
@fuse.net | BPL already works in Cincinnati Cinergy (Our local electricity co.) offers 3mbit broadband connections over their power lines for 49 bucks. It is only deployed in some neighborhoods, and the service is offered through an affiliation with Current Technologies (www.current.com). | |
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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
| said by jgr5266:
Cinergy (Our local electricity co.) offers 3mbit broadband connections over their power lines for 49 bucks. It is only deployed in some neighborhoods, and the service is offered through an affiliation with Current Technologies (www.current.com). You meant »www.currenttechnologies.com/ ... | |
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| | hrobins
Premium
join:2000-10-15
Regina, SK
clubs: | Re: BPL already works in Cincinnati Yea it works till they get in trouble with Part 13 of the FCC rules. Its only a matter of time. | |
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| | hrobins
Premium
join:2000-10-15
Regina, SK
clubs:
1 edit | Sorry for the double, hate it when I double click like that. | |
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warriors
It's A Great Time Out
join:2001-06-05
Alviso, CA | 49 bucks for 3Mbps and I can ditch my landline? If their upload speed is at least 384kbps, it's a great deal! | |
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AbBaZaBbA
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Long Beach, CA | well I say they take all the $$$ they spend on the pr to try and convince people to conserve energy and use it to build more power plants. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: well said by AbBaZaBbA :I say they take all the $$$ they spend on the pr to try and convince people to conserve energy and use it to build more power plants. It's actually cheaper to conserve power than build new power plants. I heard the term "negawatt" coined to describe a megawatt of power that was conserved rather than consumed. Negawatts are cheaper than megawatts from newly built power plants. | |
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footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: well said by rf_engineer : It's actually cheaper to conserve power than build new power plants. OK, Mr Obvious. It's always cheaper to do nothing than to do something productive. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: well said by footballdude : said by rf_engineer : It's actually cheaper to conserve power than build new power plants. OK, Mr Obvious. It's always cheaper to do nothing than to do something productive. {sigh} You're missing my point. Capacity on an older plant costs $X/megawatthour while it costs $Y/megawatthour on a new plant. If you spend money to reduce your consumption and stay within the $X/megawatthour range, you can save money if the conservation money spent per conserved megawatthour does not exceed the $Y/megawatthour rate.
Doing nothing in this instance means exceeding the capacity of existing plants. I think California did that two years ago? | |
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footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: well said by rf_engineer :Doing nothing in this instance means exceeding the capacity of existing plants. I think California did that two years ago? I think CA has been doing that for more than two years. They've been buying power from Texas (and some other states) for a number of years.
I'm all for turning out the lights when you leave the room, but the population is growing. Eventually we'll need more power. Why wait until the last minute? | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| How about just trying to keep the lights on When I lived in South OC (Laguna Hills) I had SDG&E and CONSTANT power outtages...3-4 a month. It was a joke. In talking to friends who still live there the problems persist. I would home that SDG&E would solve those problems FIRST...secure sources of new power FIRST...long before wasting ratepayer dollars on FAILED experiments like BPL.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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sancraig
join:2003-11-05
Saint Louis, MO
| lolololol I can just see it letter sorry but you've used your allotted minutes for the month and even though its only th 12th we have decided to cut your electric until the first of the next month. If this continues you will be deemed a "power user" and will be permanently disconnected... lol | |
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barky
Premium
join:2001-03-17
San Diego, CA
|  It wont matter to most people...
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footballdude
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: It wont matter to most people... said by barky :Last month my SDG&E bill was $450 I thought the weather was great in San Diego. Especially this time of year, I'd have thought you could go without any AC or heat. | |
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| Nighttime
join:2001-11-30 | As the old bumper sticker read...
Sand Diego County. Ownd and opperated by SDG&E. | |
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half empty
| ip addresses and our appliances i can see it now...everything in the house not working or malfunctioning due to the latest virus/worm or some h4x0r attacking our appliances...honey i forgot to update the virus scanner, download the latest update etc for the a/c unit...toaster...blender...microwave...ugh... | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA | Re: ip addresses and our appliances Hmm, Star Trek living in the worst possible way... | |
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| | JimmySask
join:2004-06-24
Regina, SK | Re: ip addresses and our appliances Why am I having visions of the movie Maximum Overdrive? I can the AC/DC soundtrack now...
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zentec
join:2002-01-05
Monroe, MI
·Verizon Online DSL
| Finally Someone Gets It! BPL has never been about residential Internet access, it's about real-time metering and billing. That's what the utilities want, to be able to bill you market rates when you're using the electricity. Finally someone in the press gets the idea of where all of this is going.
Advantage: You can really save money by running that dishwasher while you're in bed.
Disadvantage: Your electricity rates will be all over the map and subject to the whims and paranoia of commodity traders - just like gasoline. | |
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| glidereric
join:2001-12-06
Seattle, WA
1 edit | Re: Finally Someone Gets It! They have actually had the technology to do that for many years without using BPL.. It's capable of being done at much lower frequencies in the 100KHZ range.. | |
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David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
·Be There
| SDGE to playing at being a dot.com The SDGE plan is simple, get into the dot.com broadband business and have the long suffering California consumer pay the huge cost.
Technologies exist to day to dynamically price power, they are proven and don’t cause the massive spectrum pollution that BPL does. BPL is a very poor choice however you look at it.
SDGE needs to focus on keeping the lights on and providing service not on broadband delivery on our dime. | |
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vote4change
join:2004-10-19
Omaha, NE
| Information to note * There is not a single successful BPL trial in the country. Power companies will cite Manassas, VA and Cincinatti, OH. Neither of these places are "successful".
* Technology is therefore UNPROVEN and a huge RISK to utilities.
* No standards for BPL yet. If they build out today, next year, may need entirely new hardware at taxpayer / ratepayer expense.
* Risky for litigation. Technology pollutes the radio spectrum and DOES interfere. The FCC has been sweeping complaints under the carpet. This will eventually stop, it can't be hidden.
* Bandwidth speeds are always over-hyped. The fact is, given power line noise, best speeds will be about 256 kbps. That sucks compared to other technologies. So why the hell do it?
* The real intent is for the utility to provide "utility services" to its customers to save itself peak hour money, hike rates to by the minute as someone pointed out, and ultimately SCREW people.
This technology is BAD BAD BAD!!! Invest in something that is proven, that actually works, that has capacity for the future. Not this crap. | |
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b_keley
@Berkeley.EDU
| Re: Information to note I'll emphasize that this DOES pollute shortwave radio spectra. Not only does this jam international SW broadcasts (which are trying to go digital soon, see www.drm.org), but local police and fire department transmissions.
Forget this technology! It's garbage and there'll be something faster, wireless, and radio-friendly soon, I'll bet. | |
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| | jimpq40
join:2005-02-25
Escondido, CA
| Re: Information to note check out:
»www.rac.ca/regulatory/plc.htm#Ca···a%20firm
excerpt:
"Six weeks or so ago, I read a story that a California company, Corridor Systems, has demonstrated a BPL system that works at 2.4 and 5.3 GHz. The system, is designed to provide broadband (250 MHz) transmission suitable for high speed Internet access, using the existing power distribution system, but which does not pose any threat whatever to amateur radio or other users of the rf spectrum. "
there are more details at the link above. | |
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California BPL
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