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merge or sellout
Anon
2005-Feb-25 9:41 am
ExtortionCan you say extortion?? | |
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moe fuel to the fire
Anon
2005-Feb-25 2:46 pm
Re: ExtortionThat's OK, there's always sprint/nextel, t-mobile, and others that will bring jobs to the state.. so that's a bad bluff to call any Red state on... GO FIBER GO!!!
Telcos are gonna learn sooner or later (like a certain Koren) that throwing a tantrum will get you nowhere fast, with or without nuclear weapons. | |
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| IGGY9No Guru Just Here To Help Premium Member join:2001-03-30 Chatham, IL
1 recommendation |
to merge or sellout
I say install the fiber. Do you know how many call centers will be knocking on their door after they get this network up and running? One good example of this was posted here in the news the other day. » If You Build it, Google Comes | |
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| yac898 join:2002-12-06 Stony Plain, AB |
to merge or sellout
if i understand this correctly, a GIANT telco, which had ALL of its underlying plant paid for by taxpayers, is scared of competition from a government owned consumer option? HAHAHAHAHAHA..... | |
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BK3 join:2001-04-10 Geneva, IL |
BK3
Member
2005-Feb-25 9:41 am
BlackmailIn my opinion, this is nothing more than economic blackmail. | |
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| WeSRT4 join:2000-11-20 Mobile, AL 1 edit |
WeSRT4
Member
2005-Feb-25 9:42 am
Re: BlackmailI smell a lawsuit coming.
Edit: You know the more I think about it, with all of Bellsouth's actions lately I'm going to dump them. C-ya BS!!! | |
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Re: Blackmailsaid by WeSRT4:I smell a lawsuit coming. Edit: You know the more I think about it, with all of Bellsouth's actions lately I'm going to dump them. C-ya BS!!! The problem is that ANY company would do this. I'm thinking...gee, I'm glad I don't have BS/Cingular. But then I realized, heck, Verizon (Wireless) would do the exact same thing. | |
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lyls
Anon
2005-Feb-25 6:52 pm
Re: Blackmailif any company would resort to blackmail then i guess the country and maybe even the western world is in a very sad state | |
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| | | | AthlGrond Premium Member join:2002-04-25 Aurora, CO |
Re: BlackmailWell since the government does the same thing all the time I guess we are all doomed. | |
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| ropeguru Premium Member join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA |
to BK3
I was thinking the exact same thing before reading your post.
Not sure who they would take this to in order to have Bellsouth whipped, but I think I would be looking for the correct entity now that it is public. | |
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Unregistered user
Anon
2005-Feb-25 9:54 am
Re: BlackmailTake it to the court of public opinion. Seriously. If they want to force a vote in Lafayette, make this threat public. Make BellSouth look like the extortionists they are.
If this thing does end up going to a vote, then those who favor muni broadband have an obligation to band together and help the people of Lafayette. Make that city a test case in the use of grassroots organizing and fundraising. It has to start somewhere. | |
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Re: BlackmailSadly propaganda doesn't work that way.
The more they publicize Bellsouth claims that the fiber plan could result in layoffs, the more "layoffs" and "fiber plan" are discussed in concert.
"Joe" doesn't pay much attention to the conflict, but he does remember some talk of job losses. Better vote against that!
By simply injecting the possibility into the debate, you've scared off would-be voters too lazy to really dig in and understand the issue. | |
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to Unregistered user
"Re: Blackmail
Take it to the court of public opinion. Seriously. If they want to force a vote in Lafayette, make this threat public. Make BellSouth look like the extortionists they are.
If this thing does end up going to a vote, then those who favor muni broadband have an obligation to band together and help the people of Lafayette. Make that city a test case in the use of grassroots organizing and fundraising. It has to start somewhere."
That's the problem. When it goes to the public they get scared. Every person who works for cingular, their spouses and friends will vote no. Blackmail works. | |
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to BK3
If they followed through with it they could be sued...that was their big mistake...hell that kind of comment could be construed as a sort of economic terrorism with the patriot act. | |
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| | AthlGrond Premium Member join:2002-04-25 Aurora, CO |
AthlGrond
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 10:45 am
Re: BlackmailWhat would they be sued for do you suppose? | |
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Re: BlackmailCoercion, illegal business practice, breach of contract... | |
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| | | | AthlGrond Premium Member join:2002-04-25 Aurora, CO |
Re: Blackmailsaid by haplo2112:Coercion, illegal business practice, breach of contract... Since when is Coercion illegal and what contract is breached? | |
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| | | JTRockvilleData Ho Premium Member join:2002-01-28 Rockville, MD |
to AthlGrond
said by AthlGrond:What would they be sued for do you suppose? Breach of contract with LEDA. Check out the article from the advocate in this (just released) BBR news item: » Louisiana Fiber and 'Economic Blackmail'?"The Cingular call center was opened in 2001 in a Lafayette Economic Development Authority technology park.
It is the result of about $18 million worth of concessions, LEDA President and CEO Gregg Gothreaux said Thursday.
The concessions include $10 million in state tax breaks, donation of land and the building from LEDA and discounted utilities from LUS, Gothreaux said." | |
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| packetscan Premium Member join:2004-10-19 Bridgeport, CT |
to BK3
*cough*
We as citizens need to take a stand.
-- Who are you going to pay off today? | |
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| SteveI know your IP address
join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA |
to BK3
I believe the proper term is "extortion" | |
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Re: BlackmailExtortion?
All it means is BellSouth adapted well to Louisiana. | |
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| tkdslr join:2004-04-24 Pompano Beach, FL
2 recommendations |
to BK3
said by BK3:In my opinion, this is nothing more than economic blackmail. It's called Extortion.. a felony in most states.. I think the appropriate punishment for Bell South Inc. would be the forfeiture of all assets in the state and a lifetime ban from doing business in Louisiana. That would put All mega corps on notice. Make an economic threat and pay the price in spades. | |
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Re: BlackmailSaying they're going to take their ball and go home isn't extortion. OK, it is, but I don't think you can charge them with extortion in a courtroom. | |
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| King PDon't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul Premium Member join:2004-11-17 Murfreesboro, TN |
King P to BK3
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 2:17 pm
to BK3
Exactly right. Isn't America great! Big Corporations control not only the Gov't, but the Media, and the Economy. Frankly, it disturbs me that some agencies aren't smacking BS (and I use that term liberally) around a little bit and telling them what's up. | |
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to BK3
And what pray tell, will bellsouth gain from their own actions?
And all because of one city wanting to provide broadband to their own citizens when BellSouth has failed to do so.
Just pathetic, straight pathetic. Pathetic enough to make me want to dance that I do not live in BellSouth Territory.
I got Qwest to play with.:D | |
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| KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to BK3
what i dont understand is if a company doesnt want to provide a service to people who are will and able to pay for it why do they protest a city offering something they never will. | |
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Robert Premium Member join:2001-08-25 Miami, FL 1 edit |
Robert
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 9:44 am
Ashamed..I'm ashamed in BellSouth. They aren't playing very fair. They had years to get their act together w/o any interference, now that other counties are tired of their crap and want something done, BellSouth screams foul. Not very nice. I hope Lafayette takes them to court and wins. | |
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| yockTFTC Premium Member join:2000-11-21 Miamisburg, OH |
yock
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 10:06 am
Re: Ashamed..These are the kinds of battles small localities have to deal with. Bellsouth shouldn't have to keep their call center there if they fear losing revenue. residents should be prepared to deal with these kinds of repercussions when they place these services in the hands of the government. What they should consider is the addition of government jobs. Will the new network require many new government employees? Will a new fiber network help attract other business and residents, and thus increased tax revenue?
They could come out very much on top by building a municipal fiber network and kicking out Bellsouth, and they wouldn't have to sacrifice jobs or tax revenue in the process. | |
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FiberNow
Anon
2005-Feb-25 10:29 am
Re: Ashamed..True, they shouldn't have to keep their call center here is they fear losing revenue. The only question I would ask is what does the Cingular Call Center have to do with fiber lines/service at all? It seems like this is just a dirty blackmail scare tactic more than anything else. | |
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| | | yockTFTC Premium Member join:2000-11-21 Miamisburg, OH |
yock
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 10:33 am
Re: Ashamed..said by FiberNow:
True, they shouldn't have to keep their call center here is they fear losing revenue. The only question I would ask is what does the Cingular Call Center have to do with fiber lines/service at all? It seems like this is just a dirty blackmail scare tactic more than anything else. It has everything to do with the class of the worker. A tech-savvy worker will no doubt gravitate to the exciting new jobs created in fiber optic network installation, management, and support. That beats helping, in gross detail, a clueless cell phone user how to send a text message using only number keys. I'm sure you can imagine. | |
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Re: Ashamed..quote: Bellsouth shouldn't have to keep their call center there if they fear losing revenue. residents should be prepared to deal with these kinds of repercussions when they place these services in the hands of the government.
And where you see it in the hands of government, when it's small-town government, I see it in the hands of people. It's a scare tactic, nothing more. Don't buy into their rhetoric. Threatening to fire people from a wireless division if you create fiber competition is utterly classless. They're going nowhere. If there is money to be made in an area, it will be served, regardless of whether or not one city runs fiber to a few thousand homes. Perhaps it forces Bellsouth to upgrade their paltry network upgrade plans and consider fiber instead of scattered ADSL2+. BellSouth isn't going to just pack up shop and run away because a muni is developed. If anything they'll be forced to improve, perhaps eliminating the NEED for the muni. | |
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to Robert
When I first read the newsbit's title i thought that Bellsouth was talking about reducing BST labor force to offset work reduction as business is lost to Muni Broadband. Its not only expected, but normal for any business to reduce workforce upon lost work.
This, on the other hand, is blackmail. Since Cingular is a co-owned company of BST+SBC I find it hard to believe that they would get away with it since Cingular and this Muni effort are not really competing businesses.
As such, I would have much more respect had they simply said they would reduce BST workforce in the area by 50% and double to triple POTS deployment. But, in reflection I can see this as something they would NOT want to do as it would just drive customers away faster.
So, its a lose-lose situation for everyone. Curious, what was the public vote on Muni Broadband in Lafayette? Was there a poublic vote? | |
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FiberNow
Anon
2005-Feb-25 10:39 am
Re: Ashamed..There will be one now, because Bellsouth won in court. Off topic, but it seemed almost like a dirty decision. Bellsouth filed suit a day late, which the judge completely ignored. He also ruled from the bench with no recesses in a couple hours, with a whole 10 days alotted for the hearing. Anyway, the thing that worries me about a vote is that there will be alot of misinformation, and people looking at this as a money only issue, instead of weighing costs vs. benefits for the future. | |
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Re: Ashamed..The judge didn't force a vote on this. The vote will only happen if the BS shills get enough public support for it, which they failed to do the first time. | |
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rstrandbHowl at the moon Premium Member join:2003-04-17 Albany, GA |
rstrandb
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 9:50 am
Truth is......they'll probably yank the call-center anyway and outsource overseas anyway. Screw them, put in the fiber. | |
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| rudnicke Premium Member join:2004-10-23 Rantoul, IL |
rudnicke
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 9:52 am
Re: Truth is......That's the whole reason I won't buy a Dell computer anymore. When I call in for support, I want someone on the other end that can understand me, and someone whom I can understand. | |
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| | morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
morbo
Member
2005-Feb-25 10:03 am
Re: Truth is......said by rudnicke:That's the whole reason I won't buy a Dell computer anymore. When I call in for support, I want someone on the other end that can understand me, and someone whom I can understand. same here. | |
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This is nothing newSBC always threatened to whack the locals if the Tri Cities project had ever moved forward. Now, we all have the benefit of knowing that they'll cut jobs regardless of what a muni does.
It was the same thing with the lawsuits against any muni that dares to go ahead and do it. We all know it was what was next in the bell's anti-mini playbook. | |
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JTRockvilleData Ho Premium Member join:2002-01-28 Rockville, MD |
How many jobs will Lafayette's network provide?I couldn't find information about how many jobs Lafayette's network would provide. Does anyone know?
Wouldn't jobs for Lafayette's network remain local, and not be subject to corporate threats? | |
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Out-sourced alreadyOne of the reasons I left BellSouth Fast Access (beside connection issues) was because their Tier 1 tech support is in the Phillipines. I had major problems understanding and getting myself understood when I would call in with a problem. | |
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Send them onWe have a Cingular call center here, send those jobs to us! | |
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digital k
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 10:32 am
As a Bellsouth CustomerI am very sad to do be doing business with them. I read the story and it seems that BS and Cox cable are trying to kill this. I don't see what the big deal is , and I hope like hell Lafayette decides to go thru with it, if for no other reason than to be able to thumb their noses at greedy Bellsouth. | |
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Sysadmin Premium Member join:2000-07-07 Elk Grove, CA |
Sysadmin
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 10:34 am
Minority ownerI think the city should move right ahead and proceed with the fiber-optic network and call their bluff. Bell South only owns 40% of Cingular. I don't think the majority owner (SBC) would think that is a cost effective move and would nix any move attempt on Bell South's part. It will take them a while to recover from the AT&T Wireless merger as well. | |
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TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY |
You knowI'll bet you BellSouth is just looking for an excuse to close down this service center anyway, as it is a call center Bellsouth wants to outsource and what better way of doing it by blaming a city for the move. What a bunch of corporate assholes. I hope Lafayette tells BellSouth to go for a walk in a 'gator inhabited swamp. And Lafayette can call BellSouth bluff by telling them, if you close down this call center we will help to people you screw over find other work. | |
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DrexBeer...The other white meat. Premium Member join:2000-02-24 Not There |
Drex
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 10:48 am
New BusinessWouldn't the city of Lafayette be able to benefit from this fiber network by being able to attract new businesses? They'd be able to offer them fast, reliable (we hope) connections for cheap. | |
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Drex |
Drex
Premium Member
2005-Feb-25 11:01 am
From the articleI read the USA Today article and just love this part: quote: It told local regulators in Lafayette that they should use the FCC's "Part 64" accounting rules, which have long been imposed on local phone companies, as a benchmark to set rules for the city. Lafayette countered that those rules would be an unnecessary burden.
Yet within days of making that argument last fall, BellSouth turned around and asked the FCC to relieve it of the Part 64 rules for its broadband services. It complained that the rules were onerous and outdated and force carriers to keep "extensive and tedious" records.
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flushls
Member
2005-Feb-25 11:49 am
The begining of the endThis could be a tipping point in the war for the Telco's where they might win another battle but they will lose the war. It goes back to the old saying cutting off their nose to spite their face. It think they should pull their call centre it would do wonders for their already tarred image. They are already looking for an excuse to send it to India anyway.
Flushls | |
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*shrug*A perfectly legal and legitimate tactic. I can see the Bellsouth execs now: "Hmmm. Our call center in Lafayette is...costly. It'd be cheaper if we moved it to Tampa, Call Center Capital of the World. Ah well. Such a pity."
It can't truly be called extortion. The definition of extortion is 'Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.' Bellsouth is not really attempting to do this. Let's look at the article:
--- Oliver said a successful LUS venture could create a monopoly in the parish.
Why would BellSouth want to keep all its operations in a parish where it had no other significant business interest, Oliver asked rhetorically.
The call center, which handles customer service tasks for Cingular, could be located in "Timbuktu" and still perform the same services, Oliver said.
"Would you still keep people there?" Oliver said.
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I cannot fault the man's logic; it is inescapable. Why put money into a community that they cannot make money from? They used the same logic at Earthlink...and to Earthlink's greater profit and increased stock values. I honestly am unable to fathom why a for-profit corporation would think otherwise. | |
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Re: *shrug*quote: Why put money into a community that they cannot make money from?
That buys into the logic that they can't make money there. Says who? Because 1-2,000 people sign up for fiber in a Southern city, suddenly it's a profit graveyard? Because of one small competitor? It's one of two things (or both): Propaganda designed to get locals tying job losses to the fiber plan. An excuse to use as cover for a pre-made decision to send those jobs overseas. | |
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| JTRockvilleData Ho Premium Member join:2002-01-28 Rockville, MD |
to DSL Oberst
Exactly, DSL Oberst . Why would BellSouth keep jobs in Lafayette, anyway? I mean, it's not like Lafayette can count on those jobs to stay regardless of whether or not they build a muni system. BellSouth has an interest in the economic viability of BellSouth, whereas the City of Lafayette has an interest in the economic viability of the City of Lafayette. The muni system will provide much better economic viability for Lafayette than crumbling to BellSouth's threats will. | |
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A$$hole corporationsMother f**king Greedy Corporations. This is exactly why the USA is so far behind in technology. Sh*t heads... | |
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Re: A$$hole corporationsThe US was the leader in the telecom world till sometime in the 80s.
Sure, blame it all on corporations. Whatever lie you want to believe is fine wth me. | |
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The big pictureLooking at the big picture. The benefits of a public FTTH infrastructure should more than offset the loss of jobs in the long term IMHO.
Lots of high tech companies are looking for just that sort of infrastructure to set up shop. Google just announced they are thinking of setting up an office in a tiny town in Oregon partly because it's wired with a public fiber infrastructure.
It's still too early to tell if this is how things should be heading but this public information highway way of thinking is even farther ahead in Europe. Sweden is the leader. I think a large percentage of their country is wired with public fiber to the home.
It's not that new of a concept. After all, if it makes sense for the highways to be publicly owned then why not the information highways?! | |
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1 recommendation |
Four letters for Bellsouth to contemplate...RICO. | |
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Unregistered user
Anon
2005-Feb-25 2:18 pm
Is there a pro-muni group in Lafayette?Is there a group advocating muni broadband that's active in Lafayette? If not, there needs to be, and soon. Here's what I think needs to happen. A group is formed and set up as a nonprofit organization. The group establishes a Web site and prepares to take donations. The group is publicized on muni-broadband Web sites, Slashdot, and any other news outlets that will run a story. Donations are used to produce materials and advertisements promoting the benefits of muni broadband. Look, we know BellSouth and Cox are gonna sink money into this, so the other side needs to do the same. You can't count on LUS to be able to spend serious cash to promote this because they probably don't have the money. Therefore, those who support this initiative need to come forward and get the ball rolling. If a group gets organized and active in Lafayette, I'd be willing to donate. I have a PayPal account ready, and I'm not afraid to use it. | |
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yac898 join:2002-12-06 Stony Plain, AB |
yac898
Member
2005-Feb-25 10:47 pm
not a dime of tax dollarstax dollars for any non CORE govt business SHOULD NEVER be funded by taxpayers. if the government now considers telecomunications to be a core business, i would suggest that before every taxpayer has broadband, every taxpayer have healthcare, period. the argument that with the extra dollars, we could do this & that for more WILL NOT HELP THE PEOPLE that need it the "this & that" now. | |
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| hurfy Premium Member join:2002-08-06 Spokane, WA |
hurfy
Premium Member
2005-Feb-27 6:05 pm
Re: not a dime of tax dollarsjust do it
A Local Call center is currently advertising for 150 more employees in Spokane for their client CINGULAR :0
Either they have such a need that it would be impractical to pull em out down there no matter what...or....else... | |
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