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story category 61% Of All Upstream Traffic Is P2P
At least according to a company trying to sell a solution....
(old news - 06:29PM Thursday Oct 23 2008)
tags: stats
Sandvine, a star player in this year's Comcast throttling controversy, has released a new study claiming that 61% of all upstream traffic is P2P. According to the network gear maker, P2P is responsible for more than 22 per cent of downstream bandwidth consumption. Sandvine wants to sell traffic management gear and has a vested interest in portraying P2P traffic as an uncontrollable nuisance, though some data suggests P2P's dominance of the pipe may be dropping; replaced by audio/video. "Effective network traffic optimization techniques use sophisticated policies that balance network capacity, application requirements and subscriber quality of experience in real-time," Sandvine pitches. Actually upgrading your infrastructure helps too.

Related:
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  2. Study: U.S. Fifteenth In Broadband Quality
  3. 5.3 Million North America Fiber Customers
  4. WiMax Is (And Will Remain) A Niche Player
  5. The "Death Of P2P" Is Relative, Possibly Wrong
  6. Sandvine: P2P Now Just 20% Of Internet Use
  7. JD Power's Latest ISP Ratings
  8. U-Verse Invasion Of BellSouth Territory Continues
Forums » 61% Of All Upstream Traffic Is P2P
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:

Really now.....

Another way to sell another product eh?

BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA

Re: Really now.....

61% Of All Broadband customer yous P2P.

Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:

Re: Really now.....

said by BIGMIKE See Profile :

61% Of All Broadband customer yous P2P.
You are assuming I P2P? No I do not.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Really now.....

said by Cheese See Profile :

You are assuming I P2P? No I do not.
You know what happens when you ass/u/me.

booticon

join:2007-07-31
East Lyme, CT

Re: Really now.....

I think the point of that joke is not to spell it out like that.
hihi

join:2007-05-06
Port Orange, FL

said by Cheese See Profile :

Another way to sell another product eh?
said by Cheese See Profile :

Another way to sell another product eh?
said by Cheese See Profile :

Another way to sell another product eh?
said by Cheese See Profile :

Another way to sell another product eh?
an excuse to reduce our internet usage whether we like it or not and put usage cap in place!
I see it coming!!! Just like what the canada are doing to its customers

Bellundo

@teksavvy.com

Re: Really now.....

Canada is also losing subscribers hand over fist. People in Canada have gone back to dial-up from America where they charge one third of what it costs in Canada.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
As I love to say... 99 percent of facts are made up =). Simple enough here.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Hmmm

Thats a lot of linux distros, home movies and game patches being tossed back and forth.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17

1 edit

Re: Hmmm

I'm surprised you didn't make 1st post on this story! I thought the RIAA paid you better than that.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Re: Hmmm

I got beat by 1 min. I was taking a number 2. Next time, I'll take my laptop with me.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

And In Other News...

Sandvine, a star player in this year's Comcast throttling controversy, has released a new study claiming that 61% of all upstream traffic is P2P.
Serial Rapists R Us released a study that proves 61% of all women raped were asking for it.

/sarcasm
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

Eh? So what?

Are the ISPs in the business of not providing bandwidth? What are they going to do, figure out what's the top at any given point and throttle it to death? If the phone company figured out that a majority of text messages sent on unlimited plans were content-free messages between teenagers, would they try to throttle those too?

sapo
The Internet is Down
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA

Re: Eh? So what?

Yeah, screw providing a service. Limit us instead so you can make more money with the same capacity.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN


1 edit
Just to clarify, ISPs are in the business of making money. Bandwidth is just one way of doing it.

Anything that can reduce costs or increase revenue is good. If the ratio of costs vs revenue for a given change is high enough, it's a good idea (in management/investors eyes). If it's low enough or fractional, then it's a bad idea (in those same eyes). Don't mistake what is good for you for what is good for the business.
chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23

ok by the numbers

if most p2p is fair tradings then how can it be that 3 tmes as many people are upping to 1/3rd as many people

the math quite simple flaws it self right into the realm of a time vortex of doctor who.
ualdayan

join:2004-07-17
Antioch, TN

Re: ok by the numbers

That's what I was thinking too. For every 1 byte you download SOMEBODY else has uploaded that 1 byte. No way to get around that - you didn't just get that packet of data from nowhere.
bzmeteorite

join:2006-02-15
Nipomo, CA

said by chronoss2009 See Profile :

if most p2p is fair tradings then how can it be that 3 tmes as many people are upping to 1/3rd as many people
As I understand it, they are taking a percent of bandwidth used. Since upload bandwidth is usually asymmetric for consumer connections and is less commonly used than downloading, a greater percent of upload bandwidth rather than the percent of download bandwidth is being used.

Example:
Average of all upload bandwidth: 200Kbps. Of that, P2P: 120Kbps. That's 60%.
Average of all download bandwidth: 600Kbps. Of that, P2P: 120Kbps. That's 20%.

Granted, these numbers are a bit out of proportion and I have no doubt they kludged the numbers to better suit them. Such an odd ratio like that would assume that people uploaded, relative to download, 1/3rd of the time they downloaded... (maybe people seeded longer than they downloaded, or vice versa...?) Then again 600Kbps download averaged over a whole month is about 185GB, and about 62GB for 200Kbps of averaged upload over the course of a month, which seems within a "power user's" (hypothetical) range.
--
What happens when you combine common sense and an outspoken personality?

hok

join:2002-02-27
There are people hosting files, just uploading, no download.
Taget

join:2004-07-29

So what they are measuring...

...is what their customers enjoy doing and offering ways to prevent them from doing what they want to. Now that's what I call customer service.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Re: So what they are measuring...

Or preventing these rogue customers from clogging up the network for legit customers.
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP

Re: So what they are measuring...

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

Or preventing these rogue customers from clogging up the network for legit customers.
Rogue users or no, my network isn't clogged. What's wrong with yours?
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.

cornelius785_nli

@verizon.net
i smell FUD, does anyone else?
robl27
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL

bullshit

this is about controlling what we say/do on the interwebs.

and again.. the MafiAA are the thieves, not the consumer.

-Rob

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

1 edit

Re: bullshit

So do you also believe that SPAM filtering should be forbidden, and DoS attacks should not be mitigated?

I'm just curious where you draw the line.

pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA
·DSL EXTREME

Re: bullshit

That is the stupidest reply I 've read in 1 day (Tk's about mailing patches best you to that honor). No one likes spam, and no one like DOS attacks except the individual behind it. But P2P is 50/50 from what I'm seeing. I don't see some guy walking down the street saying "shit those damn p2p thieves are so hard to clean." It just doesn't happen.

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq

Re: bullshit

said by pspcrazy See Profile :

But P2P is 50/50 from what I'm seeing. I don't see some guy walking down the street saying "shit those damn p2p thieves are so hard to clean." It just doesn't happen.
People are negatively affected by network congestion. When it occurs on business networks, the first thing any network engineering department does is investigate:
•What is the traffic?
•Does it need to be there?

The decision to filter spam is based out of that method of investigation, as is the decision to filter DoS attacks. Thanks for pointing out the obvious differences between the filtering I mentioned, but you still didn't answer the question: should ISPs be completely hands-off with traffic, or is it okay for them to filter some things?

These threads are great because it's the same regurgitated crap over and over again. "It's theft" "No it's not" To be honest, I don't care. What I do find amusing is that people pass this off as ISPs trying to stifle the creative thoughts of their subscribers on the Internet. Nothing says personal censorship like ISPs interfering with your ability to distribute content you didn't produce to a bunch of people you didn't know. Of course, if people honestly believe limits on a certain type of distribution of mainstream content constitutes censorship of personal expression, then maybe I shouldn't be surprised so few new arguments are introduced in these threads.

pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA
·DSL EXTREME

Re: bullshit

I see,
Well I strongly believe ISP's should be involved in the killing of DDOS type companies, spam not so much. Spam can be handled by smart software like gmail, ddos not so much. When I was ddos'd it was like an invisible attack which was unstoppable until I either gave in, or gave in to paying thousands just to mitigate the damn thing. There should be more work done to stop that from ever occurring. Of course even with that ISP's have little power so I doubt even they could stop it. So if you'd ask me now after some thought, yes I'd prefer if they be hands off, but I don't mind if they look into spam prevention and ddos prevention.

There is no such thing as one or the other in this case, but if i'd have to choose I'd choose hands off.

major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

said by espaeth See Profile :

So do you also believe that SPAM filtering should be forbidden, and DoS attacks should not be mitigated?

I'm just curious where you draw the line.
Since you are choosing to be willfully obtuse, let me put this in terms you may understand better....The difference between ISPs filtering wholescale across the board and arbitrarily choosing what or when they filter vs filtering SPAM and preventing DoS attacks is the difference between getting orally fellated vs anally pounded against your will.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley

53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone

join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

your assuming comcrap cares about DoS attacks and spam

for them its all dollar signs, if 60% of their bandwidth was trading pictures of goatse they would throttle that

the only reason they target p2p because it's a grey area for legality and morality so it's an easy target. issue a press release blaming p2p so that the stock will go up
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Wait

Woha...woha...woha...back the information train up...

So your telling me Sandvine went to every ISP and either asked or installed hardware to monitor P2P to come up with numbers for this survey? I beg to differ.

This is pure and simple made up numbers. At the very least its a *very* poor estimate based on what the average person actually does. Anyone care to bet if the FCC will request that Sandvine give up how they got the stats for that survey?

I should call them up and ask myself....
EZway

join:2008-10-25
Fort Collins, CO

Re: Wait

Why not just RTFA and then RTFR:

The data used in this study originates from 26 networks distributed evenly worldwide, representing 18 countries
from five continents and a balanced mix of Cable and DSL access technologies. Collectively, the service providers
in this report count more than 16 million broadband Internet subscribers among their customers.
Data was gathered between July 1st and September 12th, 2008, so the figures in this report accurately reflect
current broadband usage patterns.

Sadly seems like a decent sized sample.

Xizer

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

Wait for TK Junk Mail...

To come in and tow the corporate line.

This thread is the perfect bait.

BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA

Re: Wait for TK Junk Mail...

Encrypt the Entire Internet

The Pirate Bay Wants to Encrypt the Entire Internet

The team behind the popular torrent site The Pirate Bay has started to work on a new encryption technology that could potentially protect all Internet traffic from prying eyes. The project, which is still in its initial stages, goes by the name “Transparent end-to-end encryption for the Internets,” or IPETEE for short. It tackles encryption not on the application level, but on the network level, the aim being that all data exchanged on your PC would be encrypted, regardless of its nature — be it a web browser streaming video files or an instant messaging client. As Pirate Bay co-founder Fredrik Neij (a.k.a. Tiamo) told me, “Even applications that don’t supporting encryption will be encrypted where possible.” »newteevee.com/2008/07/09/the-pir···nternet/

»https://tor-proxy.net/cgi-bin/enc/nph-pr···2e64652f
ja2007123

join:2007-10-06

Re: Wait for TK Junk Mail...

and next thing you know, hackers paid by the government crack the encryption and there was much rejoice.....
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

and then other hackers rebuild the crypto. its an endless fight that the governments and corporations cant win. of course in 10 years when the media industry owns the government they would just use the CIA and have people doing file sharing killed.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

DSLGuy
thread killer
Premium
join:2000-12-14
Mckinney, TX
clubs:

wasn't this was done already.. it's called a layer two vpn, or even as they talk about network layer, isn't that a layer 3 vpn.. take your pick.. doh..

i use one too, anytime I'm using public wifi on my laptop or iphone... why not... a box parked on a FIOS 20/20 link as a PPTP server.. whose to say I couldn't sell my friends "the entire encrypted internet" for 100 bucks a month.. woo-hoo!!
--
"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity."
- Albert Einstein

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse

There are Lies, Damned Lies and Piracy Statistics...

To paraphrase Mark Twain.

When a company like Sandvine (who have a vested interest in controlling p2p traffic, or selling their hardware to ISPs that do this) says 61% of all upload traffic is p2p, it is suspect to say the least.

There is the issue of where they are getting their numbers from, and any such numbers are going to be tainted because they are partial to one side in the MAFIAA's war on p2p.

Similarly, if someone from say the Pirate Bay were to come out and say that only 20% of upload traffic is p2p, the same claim would be difficult to accept at face value.

Really, the only way to truly determine how much of the Internet's traffic is p2p, you would need someone who is not biased toward either side.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

osubuck

@rr.com

from:
CO_Chris See Profile

Where is he??

seriously, where is TK Junktalk? He's slacking on this one for sure, looks like payday might not be so good to him this week.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Re: Where is he??

said by osubuck :

seriously, where is TK Junktalk? He's slacking on this one for sure, looks like payday might not be so good to him this week.
Scroll up, ninja is here...
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
Mannus
Premium
join:2005-10-25
Fort Wayne, IN

61%?

That BS. My average is 80% easy.

I'm an anime fansub whore.
TheMG

join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB

Idea.

I wouldn't mind if ISPs gave us slightly more upstream speed, and throttled P2P to a certain maximum amount of upstream.

For example: 2Mbit/s upstream connection speed but P2P throttled to 1Mbit/s upstream.
hihi

join:2007-05-06
Port Orange, FL

Re: Idea.

said by TheMG See Profile :

I wouldn't mind if ISPs gave us slightly more upstream speed, and throttled P2P to a certain maximum amount of upstream.

For example: 2Mbit/s upstream connection speed but P2P throttled to 1Mbit/s upstream.
Dude I already done that LOL
My connection is 1.5/384 so I upload at 19kbps
if I upload anymore my download would would suffer
uploading at max mean the best i can download is 256kbps!
I rarely seed torrent so there is no need to cap anything
beside we're already capped!!!

arafey

@snet.net


1 edit

Re: Idea.

said by hihi See Profile :

said by TheMG See Profile :

I wouldn't mind if ISPs gave us slightly more upstream speed, and throttled P2P to a certain maximum amount of upstream.

For example: 2Mbit/s upstream connection speed but P2P throttled to 1Mbit/s upstream.
Dude I already done that LOL
My connection is 1.5/384 so I upload at 19kbps
if I upload anymore my download would would suffer
uploading at max mean the best i can download is 256kbps!
I rarely seed torrent so there is no need to cap anything
beside we're already capped!!!
I think you've missed the difference between kbps and KBps. 384kbps~19KBps, 1.5mbps~256KBps. megabits/kilobits is not the same as megabytes and kilobytes.
ShadezeRO

join:2006-04-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL
·AT&T Southeast

In a related Study...

I think this should be attached as well...
whiteyonenh

join:2004-08-09
Keene, NH
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: In a related Study...

said by ShadezeRO See Profile :

I think this should be attached as well...
sistafeed

join:2008-03-06
Lexington, KY

Re: In a related Study...

said by whiteyonenh See Profile :

said by ShadezeRO See Profile :

I think this should be attached as well...

lmao
Rilly

join:2007-10-26

Its My Fridge!

I have Kenmore harassing me now... apparently they found out that 61% of my fridge is filled with beer and that apparently I should be leaving room for some fruit and vegetables..
atigerman

join:2002-01-19
Tigerton, WI

Statics

61% of statics can be made up to say anything 50% of the time

xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA

1 edit

numbers please

n/m
Desdinova

join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD

Hmmm...

I've found that most statistics are 50% non-quantified data, 50% wishful thinking and 50% questionable math...
boast

join:2005-09-03
Miami, FL

what to throttle next?

they need to throttle youtube next. Its using up too many tubes!

FicmanS
Premium
join:2005-01-11
Brownsburg, IN
clubs:

Re: what to throttle next?

+1
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA

Over 61% of all statistics are just made up

32% are pulled out of someones a$$

ARGONAUT
got ping?

join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN

Re: Over 61% of all statistics are just made up

said by b10010011 See Profile :

32% are pulled out of someones a$$
Amen!
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
and 100% of bulls produce shit....
Forums » 61% Of All Upstream Traffic Is P2Ppage: 1 · 2


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