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Bell Canada Gets Naked
Are telcos awakening to unbundled reality?
by MacGyver 01:48PM Monday Mar 07 2005 Tipped by Karl Bode See Profile
Bell Canada has finally announced they'll stop forcing the purchase of local service and will begin offering a stand-alone DSL line, also known as "naked DSL". It's a move North American telcos are slowly being forced to embrace as users migrate toward going VoIP or cell only, and regulators apply increasing pressure.

According to the Toronto Star, the company will be engaged in a "soft launch" (read: they won't shout about it) of naked Sympatico service this month.

"We want to be ready for the summer, the whole back-to-school season," says an Exec. "We think the whole concept of mobile (phone service) and Sympatico as a student offering is really compelling." Corporate-speak translation: Students want to go wireless or VoIP only, and are switching to cable, so we need to stop pretending naked DSL isn't possible.

Something not mentioned by the article: Bell Canada recently justified the "forced-bundling" tactic by claiming that without local service pushing 48-volt DC current through the lines, the lines "would oxidize and fail". We've seen similar excuses delivered over the years by American providers on why a dry pair can't be offered; ranging from "it's illegal" to "it's technically impossible."

It has been a painfully slow process here in the States for the bells to admit that the only reason to force bundle DSL/local service is to prevent local service defections. Only now that the land-line market is dying, are they slowly loosening their stance.

Qwest was the first to break down and begin offering naked DSL early last year. Verizon promised the option before the end of 2004, but so far haven't followed through. Verizon insiders tell us "technical issues" have slowed the shift, but it should be announced by mid-year. No word from SBC or BellSouth.

It became a hot issue after Bell DSL Customers found their DSL lines terminated after switching local carriers - without fully understanding why. We've even seen some customers forced to pay re-installation fees after they realized what happened and tried to return to their original carrier.

Responding to complaints, regulators in a growing number of states have ruled the tactic to be illegal. It's an issue many argue the FCC should have addressed long ago; though the market is slowly forcing telcos in that direction naturally.

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Fraoch

join:2003-08-01
Cambridge, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

Bell Canada Gets Naked

Heh, heh, just asked someone about this at a Bell World store a month ago.

Back then it was "impossible". They did state it would be "possible" when Bell introduced their own VoIP service near the end of the year.

Gee, how times change in a few weeks!

Corvus
Flaming Tards Since 2003
Premium
join:2003-11-26

Re: Bell Canada Gets Naked

said by Fraoch:

Heh, heh, just asked someone about this at a Bell World store a month ago.

Back then it was "impossible". They did state it would be "possible" when Bell introduced their own VoIP service near the end of the year.

Gee, how times change in a few weeks!
Funny how competition is changing things? Videotron is currently heavily harvesting Bell customers with our VoIP service. The soup is getting hotter, Bell know it's better keeping a DSL access than loosing everything.
--
Don't worry, it's not loaded. ~~Terry Kath, musician, Suicide playing Russian roulette. January 23, 1978
parkbear

join:2004-02-02
Kamloops, BC
I signed Up for Telus naked last week

hourensuman

@68.75.x.x

so

what did you do after they called the cops on you?

hourensuman

@68.75.x.x
was that before or after they called the cops on you?

dfymca

join:2002-10-25
Monrovia, CA
I've been in a Low-Voltage Telecom installer for 10 years, WE call it "Dry DSL" I prefer the term.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink

Duh

Been there done that ten years ago.

Bell doesn't want competition in any area they service -- even if they don't offer broadband. I have no sympathies for any Bell after I witnessed the way they treat local competition. Small mom & pop ISPs wait up to 9 months after a line upgrade is ordered for it to get installed. Bell upgrades their systems state wide in a matter of hours - and they don't want months to do it once they make a decision.

Historically, when it comes to internet service providers and connections, there is a huge difference between the bitch and the pup. .

Doci
Toothless Fairy

join:2003-02-01

Re: Duh

You're confused. Read the topic and text, Bell Canada has nothin to do with your baby bells.
--
An ISO 14000 registered service provider.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State

Re: Duh

Unless I miss my guess they are all cut from the same cloth. My one experience with Bell in Canada wasn't any nicer than my many experiences with the baby Bells.

quanta
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Toronto, ON

One experience?

According to DSLReports's weekly ratings, Bell Canada's Sympatico High Speed is the #2 telco DSL provider in North America.

»/gbu

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Speed was never an issue.

quanta
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Toronto, ON

Re: Duh

The Good, Bad, Ugly ratings are based on many factors, including reliability and customer service.

DaSneaky1D
what's up
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

How much?

What will the "line charge" Bell Canada will charge for this service?
karlj1

join:2004-01-25
Ottawa, ON

I Smell A Corporate RAT....

Notice how only Sympatico users can get Naked DSL?

What about third-party DSL providers? If I want say Magma, or another DSL provider and no local phone line, can I get it? Will Bell charge me though the nose to get it? Also will the quality of service be there or will Bell lag with connections/repairs for third-party DSL providers?

"Captain, there be rough seas ahead..."
t10

join:2003-05-25
Woodbridge, ON

Re: I Smell A Corporate RAT....

said by karlj1:

Notice how only Sympatico users can get Naked DSL?
Not an issue, other ISPs can run a copper dry line to your house and offer you free naked DSL.

Oh wait, you trying to tell me those companies dont want to run copper to your house for free?! SUCH NERVE!!
--
Sympatico Ultra + Rogers Extreme Dual WANage

RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

3 recommendations

Where's the facts?

"Responding to complaints, regulators in a growing number of states have ruled the tactic to be illegal."

What states, what complaints? Complaints here don't count. Where are the actual, filed complaints about line sharing?

"It's an issue many argue the FCC should have addressed long ago"

Why? There is no reason for the FCC to even stick their nose in this on their own motion. You can't have the deregulation that allows independent CLECs and VoIP providers to exist and then turn around and whine when that process results in a situation you don't like. Anyone can order an unbundled loop. Nobody wants to pay for it though. Sounds like you want it for "free".

"though the market is slowly forcing telcos in that direction naturally"

If this is the "way it should be" then it will get there through market forces. "Naked DSL" is little more than a marketing/PR buzzword. Ameritech/SBC (for example) ran all DSL on unbundled loops for a number of years until they were forced to line share. Some of those circuits are still in service. How ironic is that? Make up your mind whether you want to have your cake or eat it, Karl Bode See Profile.

Minister

join:2002-01-02
Fleeting

1 edit

Re: Where's the facts?

quote:
Anyone can order an unbundled loop.
What? For under say $60?

RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

Re: Where's the facts?

They used to sell UL DSL for $39. Haven't priced one out lately, but in the not so distant past you could get an unloaded dry pair "alarm circuit" for about $9. That's basically the same thing.

Covad sells their "naked DSL" product for about what it would cost to have basic POTS with linesharing so you pay one way or the other.

Minister

join:2002-01-02
Fleeting

Re: Where's the facts?

quote:
They used to sell UL DSL for $39. Haven't priced one out lately, but in the not so distant past you could get an unloaded dry pair "alarm circuit" for about $9. That's basically the same thing.
I don't understand. I can't call SBC, BellSouth, or Verizon and get stand-alone DSL on a dry pair without the local phone component.

RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

Re: Where's the facts?

Who said you could? If you want that call someone who sells it, like Covad. I was talking about the "unbundled" part of the equation. What you put on it is your business.
ldisimino

join:2004-08-17

Smart move by Bell - VOIP Soon

This seems to be a smart move on Bell's part. First of all, they're finally recognizing that they've been losing VOIP customers to cable internet. Secondly, it think this move indicates the launch of Bell's VOIP service in the very near future. Frankly, I think this was only done by Bell in preparation fo their VOIP service; it wouldn't make much sense for them to market VOIP and require customers to have a POTS line at the same time.

Bozono

@24.43.x.x

Hooray

Only sensible choice they can make. There are plenty of folks like myself who don't need a landline and can only afford $40-50 for the net. I do hope that them lying about feasability of implementation in the past surfaces with some smoke. Alas, don't screw us with a $10 surcharge please.

Azathoth666

@161.216.x.x

Bell Canada Gets Naked

Lets not forget that Bell need to identify you, just like the internet need to identify your computer. Altough internally nearly all their system is now on IP protocol, the old analog lines that connect every houses are not. They will therefore need to still asign a phone number to you 'house'. Since the CRTC 'rent' the numbers to the providers (last time I checked it was something like 6,25$/number) Bell (and others) will most probably have to charge us at least that.

Re: Bell Canada Gets Naked

I think you're on crack. Every copper pair has a circuit number. The phone number is something that gets attached at a much higher layer.

-b

goldenLad

@216.75.x.x

Modem Rentals

Now if Bell could be only be convinced to offer the service without the forced modem rental...

XNemesis

join:2002-11-16
Kitchener, ON

I can just imagine....

Currently I pay $27 for my land line. I'd love to just use my pay as you go cell since I don't use the phone that much and go with dry dsl instead. But I've got an inkling that Bell will charge just as much for the dry dsl, IF NOT MORE, than what I'm currently paying for my land line.

if so...WHAT A JOKE!!!

Would defeat the purpose of naked dsl.

Frank_IT
Premium
join:2003-11-01
Montreal

Unbundled Loop

So.. if I understand properly.. I can order a unbundled loop to my house, the connect a DSL modem, and use, for example, the username of my friend's dsl ?

giesen

@cpe.net.cable.rogers

Re: Unbundled Loop

No, they still have to enable DSL service on the line.

Nanika

@sympatico.ca

Dry DSL with Sympatico? Not yet...

Just called Sympatico today (March 26, 2005) to ask exactly when in April they will offer the dry DSL. They said that it won't happen, and if I cancel my landline it won't automatically cancel my Sympatico account, but the internet access would stop with Sympatico still charging me for the non-existent internet until I call them to cancel the service.
I am seriously thinking about cancel both Bell and Sympatico and move to Rogers and Vonage but I hate the idea of 60GB bandwidth with Rogers.

MaybeImWrong

@lsanca2.dsl-verizon.

Re: Dry DSL with Sympatico? Not yet...

They can't reduce prices without a huge writedown, since all the financial models for 5 yrs out are based on current rates at least. So, there will be extreme disengenuousnous all the way around as they say aaaannnnyyyything to keep the eps up over the projection.

max3000

@royalbank.com

Re: Dry DSL with Sympatico? Not yet...

Sympatico DSL without landline is available as of Apr 1 (no joke). You can call 1-888-590-2375.

Oshawapilot

@tor.primus.ca

Sympatico only?

I've been looking around and calling all kinds of DSL carriers for the last week (Including Primus, whom I've been with for several years) looking for one that would offer me naked DSL, and not one said that they could do it yet.

Of course, I called Sympatico back, and they begrudgingly said that yes, they could provide me a naked DSL service.

There *IS* a surcharge, but the signup lady couldn't quote it exactly - she "Believes" it's less then $10 per month, but wouldn't quote it exactly.

So, after departing Sympatico a few years ago when they first imposed the bitcaps (Which have since mysteriously dissappeared since customers like me defected) I had no choice but to return in order to get a dry loop.

Since I want to move to Voip since LNP came my way earlier this month, I had little choice - I didn't want to pay for a POTS line when I was not going to use it any longer.

Funny how that bitcap dissapeared, though.. Although I *never* ran up against it, I refused to be capped, and left for Primus, who never has had a bitcap. Rarely do I transfer more then 10 or 20 gigs a month, and that's exceptionally rare.

I guess Bell learned the hard way that "Unlimited" internet really should be "Unlimited".

So, once again, within a few days I will unfortunately be a Sympatico customer....and being forced to rent a modem again that I don't actually need, as I own my own.

One can bet that I won't be around any longer then necessary to allow the other DSL carriers to catch up and start offering Dry DSL themselves, at which point I'll likely move again to another DSL carrier that has better pricing, and actually offers a discount for those that own their own modems.

coolkidd

@sympatico.ca

they could always charge less for the pots

dont know much about how the telco business runs

but Bell could charge less for the pots

is this feasible ?

or it cost them so much to maintain it that we

all must pay $50 bucks every month just for

local calls and limited features..?