 
Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Pickpockets It's long been known that NY has the greatest number of pickpockets anywhere. Now it's proven. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
1 edit | Re: Pickpockets double tax?
So a Truck Driver that hauls on the east cost has to file in every state? (- taken to the extreme if NY can get away with it every other state will try)
He's not going to make any more..
This is just Ludicrous
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| | | SkyDude
join:2000-11-19
Raynham, MA
| Re: Pickpockets Interstate drivers are exempt from this type of taxation. By virtue of the fact they are engaged in interstate commerce, the Feds don't allow this.
In the case of the programmer, he should tell them to go pound sand and find a good lawyer to fight this. | |
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rtcpenguin
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Fairfax, VA
·Cox HSI
| said by Mike  :Technically yes. If money is earned within a state, it is their right by law to collect tax. But what is the definition of in? Telemarketers make out of state calls and earn commission from sales to out of state customers. Do they have to pay taxes in those states?
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All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings, and so give them the power to pull ours. -Aldous Huxley | »www.wikipedia.org | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | So what happens when I end up telecommuting to places like India or Canada ? Currently I end up supporting systems in 4 states and 2 different countries. | |
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WTF_WTF
| Well, I know some "Consultants" who travel around the country; working in this state an that; for say 2 weeks at a time. Would you beleive they have to file in each state they worked in?
Honest; it's what's happening..... this is just getting out of hand.
I know someone that last year had to file in 15 states... all with difering rules .... rates and everything else; makes it almost impossible to do your own taxes because it's such a mess. | |
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| | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Limits I am no accountant (I do work for an accounting firm), but it is my understanding, that if you work more than 100 hours in a state you are to file a tax return in that state.
So no a truck driver driving through a state or a consultant that works in multiple states for 2 weeks (assuming 80 hours) does not have to file in each state. | |
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| | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Limits I thought the rules were more than a year. My company is in the middle of a large third-party software package and the software company cannot allow their on-site consultants to be at our site for more than a year. (They don't live here. They fly home every week-end.) We recently lost the consultants who were getting close to being on-site for a year. I thought the reasoning was that more than a year and they have to file a return in our state.
Each state could be different. Perhaps that's the rules in MO.
Perhaps it's time for this:
»www.fairtax.org/ | |
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King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium
join:2004-11-17
Inman, SC
 ·Windstream
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Pickpockets NFL Players have to pay taxes for each (either)City or State they play in. Maybe that explains why their salaries are so high...lol
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Forget 'em, Support the Indies.»www.ind-music.com | |
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| | | gpancner
join:2001-09-27
Nine Mile Falls, WA | Do professional sport players pay tax in all of the states they play in? | |
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ag1010
join:2001-06-11
Kenosha, WI
| So that means since the company I work for is based in FL where they don't pay State Income tax, I can stop paying WI taxes................
NY needs to find another method of squeezing their residents and stop bothering people who don't live in their state with this B.S. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| hard part will be them enforcing this, and collecting the back taxes will be near impossible because they would have to take the guy in a TN court room since they couldnt make him fly to NY for trial without Extridition. odds are this is just money grubbing for press ink.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: Pickpockets I think the employee would have minimum contacts with the state for the courts to establish jurisdiction, unfortunately. | |
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ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA | Wonderful ... Tax ALL out-sourced & overseas work! Sounds like NY has been taking taxation lessons from CA. So, now OTR workers who work for NY companies are to be taxed, too, even if they spend little or no time in NY? | |
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| Plldwnyrpnts
join:2003-04-19
Chicago, IL
| Re: Wonderful ... Tax ALL out-sourced & overseas work! So people in India should be taxed if their employer is in NY.
I work for a company in Chicago. The parent company is in DC. Does that mean I should pay DC tax?
What about all of the other companies that have offices in different states? Should employees be charged tax from the parent company's state? If the answer is no, how hard would it be to set up an office in Tennessee and avoid NY tax all together? May be the only option to avoid this problem. | |
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GreggE
Thinking - Thinking
Premium
join:2003-06-01
Mid Tenn
| Re: Wonderful ... Tax ALL out-sourced & overseas work! said by Plldwnyrpnts :So people in India should be taxed if their employer is in NY. Good Point!!
I also live in Tennessee and we have no State Income tax, but we are taxed in other ways to make up for it. This is total crap for this guy - paying taxes for police, fire, roadways, and everything else he doesn't use in NY!
Just another way to get money from Joe Taxpayer  | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| said by Plldwnyrpnts :If the answer is no, how hard would it be to set up an office in Tennessee and avoid NY tax all together? May be the only option to avoid this problem. Yeah, seems as if NYC just set a standard of how to lose money quickly. I guess the people that pushed for this doesn't realize how cheap data is now. Imagine the largest companies moving their "work" to the cheapest county in America and simply telecommuting everyone from a "central location."
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] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
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| | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Different example altogether. The tax on the people who work in India is paid for by the company before they get paid. Same with you if you work for a branch of the company. This guy worked for the "only branch" of the company which so happened to be based in another state.
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BTK is Caught!!!! | |
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ColdFiltered
join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA | I'm not support the activity, but stating how absurd it can get if one follows along the lines of silly reasoning that court based its decision on. I think its stupid. | |
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Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
| Re: Wonderful ... Tax ALL out-sourced & overseas w Can't wait to see that happen.
But anyway, I believe that worker should be taxed for a state that he's physically in.
But yet I can find good potential "law" that would make taxing overseas outsourcing legal.
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Private First Class of United States Marine Corps | |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| I wonder if this will stand up in court? So basically, we can now charge commuter taxes. Say you live in a cheaper suburb but work in the expensive city. Should you have to pay taxes on where you work?
I can see a great many companies start moving operations out of high tax areas and into lower tax places.
Also, what about taxing people who telecommute from outside the country?
Say you have a satellite office in New York but work in Virginia. Should New York get to tax you too?
Oh this is going to get real messy, real quick. | |
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celeritypc
For Lucky Best Wash, Use Mr. Sparkle
Premium
join:2004-05-15
Caldwell, NJ | Re: I wonder if this will stand up in court? Commuter taxes on people who do not live in the state where it is levied has already been found unconstitutional. You know, that whole "taxation without representation" thing. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: I wonder if this will stand up in court? said by celeritypc :Commuter taxes on people who do not live in the state where it is levied has already been found unconstitutional. You know, that whole "taxation without representation" thing. For state-level taxes, yes. However, for city taxes... All I gotta do is point you to anyone that works in the city of Philadelphia.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: I wonder if this will stand up in court? Or Wilmington, DE.... | |
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| | | | shadow520
join:2002-04-03
Warren, MI
1 edit | Re: I wonder if this will stand up in court? Or the following Michigan Cities:
Detroit
Pontiac
Flint
Grand Rapids
Hamtramck
Highland Park
Lansing
etc
etc
etc
The point is that cities can and do charge income tax on non-residents, although at a lesser rate. States charge income tax on workers from other states who actually work in their states. Although most neighboring states have reciprical agreements to not do this. States also allow credits on their income taxes for income taxes paid to other states. However, since TN doesn't have an income tax, this is a problem for the taxpayer in this case.
All that said, I'm not sure this will stand up to federal scrutiny. He doesn't PHYSICALLY work in the state of NY. In ALL these other cases, they do PHYSICALLY work in the state or city. Even if he does have to travel to NY from time to time, that is NOT his primary place of work, TN is. I have traveled on business to DC, Virginia, Texas, New Jersey, and Tennessee. Does that mean I need to pay taxes to each of those states for the time I was there? I DON'T THINK SO.
Yes, I am an accountant and tax preparer.
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Common sense is not all that common. | |
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celeritypc
For Lucky Best Wash, Use Mr. Sparkle
Premium
join:2004-05-15
Caldwell, NJ
| The Vampire State NY tries everything it can to suck dollars out of every person who passes through.
The problem here is that if the programmer is an employee rather than a contractor, he is, indeed subject to the NY income tax. If he pays Tenn. income tax, he probably will get a credit for the tax he pays to NY. The problem is that he would most likely have a higher tax burden in NY then Tenn. This way NY not only screws the person, but the state he lives in as well.
NY has another nasty habit of taxing the total income of a married couple even if one spouse does not derive any income from NY. | |
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bmbarnes
join:2003-08-10
Derwood, MD | Re: The Vampire State There is no state income tax in TN. However, the state and county sales taxes are constantly bumping up against the 10% line. | |
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celeritypc
For Lucky Best Wash, Use Mr. Sparkle
Premium
join:2004-05-15
Caldwell, NJ
| Re: The Vampire State said by bmbarnes :There is no state income tax in TN. However, the state and county sales taxes are constantly bumping up against the 10% line. What are your property taxes like? | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
2 edits | said by celeritypc :The problem here is that if the programmer is an employee rather than a contractor, he is, indeed subject to the NY income tax. If he pays Tenn. income tax, he probably will get a credit for the tax he pays to NY. Taxation is based on where you live AND where you work.
Live in TN, work in TN = no income tax
Live in TN, work in GA = pay GA tax
Live in GA, work in TN = pay GA tax
What doesn't make any sense here is why the programmer's home office isn't being treated as a physical presence of the company in Tennessee. I live in Atlanta and work in the Atlanta office of a company based in Denver and pay Georgia tax and ONLY Georgia tax; even if I were to spend an extended amount of time in the Denver office, Colorado never comes into the picture.
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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celeritypc
For Lucky Best Wash, Use Mr. Sparkle
Premium
join:2004-05-15
Caldwell, NJ
| Re: The Vampire State said by roamer1 :Live in TN, work in TN = no income tax Live in TN, work in GA = pay GA tax Live in GA, work in TN = pay GA tax What doesn't make any sense here is why the programmer's home office isn't being treated as a physical presence of the company in Tennessee. I live in Atlanta and work in the Atlanta office of a company based in Denver and pay Georgia tax and ONLY Georgia tax; even if I were to spend an extended amount of time in the Denver office, Colorado never comes into the picture. -SC It depends on whether the states in question have reciprocity. NJ and PA have reciprocity. If you live in NJ and work in PA, you pay NJ. If you live in PA and work in NJ, you pay PA. This does not affect Philadelphia city income tax. NJ has no reciprocity with NY because the rates in NY are much higher so it does not beneift NY to have such an arrangement. | |
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raydog1
Feel Secure
Premium
join:2003-07-10
La Vergne, TN | That SUCKS! Sorry. Can't think of anything more constructive to say.
It's just how I feel as a fellow non-state income tax paying Tennessean.  | |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA
| Re: That SUCKS! Yeah, thats got to be a big hit too. TN does not have an income tax (or an ad valorum car tag tax...as anyone in Georgia can attest to). So, this guy will probably owe LOTS of money to NY if this holds up. Seems living and WORKING in TN aint such a bad thing (tax wise) | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | Probably will go to the Supreme Court It's no surprise that a New York court would rule that New York can tax non-New Yorkers. This will be decided in the Federal courts, whether in this case or another one. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Clearest Example of Taxation without Representatio I cannot see why this did not win on merits of Taxation without Representation which is one of the founding auguements that led to the formation of this country.
The guy works in Tenessee and will have to pay Tenessee state tax and New York state tax now and NY will probably sue for back taxes. Yet New York provides this guy no services that he's paying taxes for. His lawyers should immediately file a federal appeal.
This is clearly another assault on the middle and under classes who cannot afford to live in expensive cities and in some areas are forced to live in another state due to close proximity. New York city borders New Jersey and I know many who live across New Jersey in PA just to get affordable housing. | |
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| clecssuck
join:2002-01-23
Birmingham, AL | Re: Clearest Example of Taxation without Representatio I agree but Ocupational taxes are allowed to exist and they are clearly unconstitutional.
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Well never forget Dale Earnhardt #3 | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: Clearest Example of Taxation without Representatio said by clecssuck :I agree but Ocupational taxes are allowed to exist and they are clearly unconstitutional. I've got to agree. I have to pay taxes in Jefferson County, MO (which is where I live). I also pay St Louis City taxes, which is where I work. I'm not allowed to vote in St Louis City elections, though. | |
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clecssuck
join:2002-01-23
Birmingham, AL | It'll stop the outsourcing Go ahead and make Hashmish in India pay income taxes in NY and any other U.S. city he talks to. That $10 a day doesn't cut it now does it?
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Well never forget Dale Earnhardt #3 | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: It'll stop the outsourcing said by clecssuck :Go ahead and make Hashmish in India pay income taxes in NY and any other U.S. city he talks to. That $10 a day doesn't cut it now does it? That won't float , simply because it would hurt big business bottom line.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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bell_s
join:2003-08-22
Romania
| How about outsourcing? if your support center is in India and your employees there connect to the company and the customers through broadband i guess they should tax those people as well... right?
quote:
New York provides the job, New York provides the professional opportunity, and New York should be able to tax that income, even if the employee for his own convenience was working outside of New York State,'' said Marc Violette, spokesman for New York Assistant Solicitor General Julie Mereson.
i guess that outsourcing fits this description. right?
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Time travel is impossible.but i won't bet on it as the guy might be from the future and he'd already know that he's going to win. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Re: How about outsourcing? Your Correct | |
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| | dick white
Premium
join:2000-03-24
Annandale, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: How about outsourcing? maybe, maybe not. It is probable that the support center in India would be a contractor, not direct employees of the hypothetical NY company. Thus the employees are not paid by a NY-based company, and not subject to NY source income. If they are direct employees and the call center in India is operated as a field office of the NY company, then that field office is not a NY source. The NY headquarters will have some routine paperwork to send to the NY tax authorities certifying the out-of-state field office as a non-NY source. The problem here is that the guy in TN is an employee of the NY company and working from home. Even if he flew his private helicopter to Manhattan every day from his home in TN, he'd still owe NY (and NYC) income taxes. Folks that drive in every day from Jersey or CT have the same problem. They ARE that piggy in NY. And it is legal, has survived more than one court challenge. What the TN guy needs to do is re-negotiate his relationship with the company and become an independent contractor. He'll have to make sure his agreed-upon rate is high enough to provide himself for all the same company benefits, etc., but if he's valuable to the employer, they'll do it.
yup, taxes suck,
dw | |
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| wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | Even better. I work for a global company. Probably half of my work involves network devices in other countries. So do I get half of my taxes back?!?! Or will I have to file in India, Europe, and ASPAC too??
puritan | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | Give them the Jersey NY tried this in NJ, then surprisingly there was a tax on new yorkers coming into nj. Revolt, its the only solution. | |
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Plasticman
Will Work For Bandwidth
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Harrisville, RI
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| The Government is GREEDY I work for a Non Profit company in the state of Mass and I live in Rhode Island. I have Mass state taxes taken out of my paychecks. I do not have taxes taken out for Rhode Island. But I do have to file a Rhode Island tax return as well as a Mass Tax. I am lucky that my nephew is living with me cause I am actually getting a few bucks back from RI. If I could not claim him I would have to pay.
Plasticman
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Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today because they pissed me off | |
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Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
1 edit | Exhibit A This is one of the reasons income taxes ought to be abolished, and the nation switched to a sales tax. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | If this were me?? I would not pay and tell them to come to TN and get me!!!
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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Tax Man
|  Re: If this were me??
That's why it is so important that the federal government get involved.
That said, tax withholding is probably the most insidiously evil, yet remarkably clever, idea anyone has ever had in government. Most people don't realize just how much of their pay is being withheld in taxes. Can you imagine how different our government would look if you actually had to cut a monthly check for thousands of dollars to the IRS? I'd imagine there would be armed revolts in the streets if the tax withholding laws were ever repealed. Can you imagine what you could do if your gross income equalled your net income? | |
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| | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: If this were me?? Can you imagine what you could do if your gross income equalled your net income?
Not much more then you do now considering prices will go up with the demand and the ability to pay. In other words, if a loaf of bread cost .0005% of you net paycheck now, it will cost .0005% of you new net paycheck then. | |
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| | Uraki
Uraki
Premium
join:2003-06-22
Belle Plaine, KS | Your comment about tax withholding is right on target.
Here's my solution to ALL of our problems. It only takes the passage of 2 simple laws:
-- Abolish tax withholding
-- Move election day to April 16th | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| ny resident he commutes here and makes 10 times what he would make in his home state. you think it's unfair? as a NY city resident my local tax dollars provides the infrastructure he needs to get to his client from the airport, the police to protect him etc, etc. tell your local government to tax out of state workers that visit your state and get paid a lot of money. all you people grumping about unfair taxation stay in your own state and make less money. as far as India and other countries I am all for taxing corporations that eliminate jobs and move them overseas. like it or not a lot of people from all over the world move here because it is a fun, exciting city to live in and it is also a place to make a ton of money. they should not ride on the backs of the local residents. if I work in your state and use your city services I have no problem contributing to your tax base. it's only fair. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Robert Dupuy
@umpublishing.org
| taxes When you don't pay state income tax, you pay higher sales tax and property taxes.
This guy is paying for TN's taxes through those other mechanisms AND New York's tax too...but some companies operate in all 50 states, and those employee's don't file 50 state income tax returns.
What this company needs to do, is either put the guy on contract, or make his home a satellite office, and pay him from the TN office. | |
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| steve84o
Premium
join:2002-04-15
US
| Re: taxes said by Robert Dupuy:
When you don't pay state income tax, you pay higher sales tax and property taxes.
This guy is paying for TN's taxes through those other mechanisms AND New York's tax too...but some companies operate in all 50 states, and those employee's don't file 50 state income tax returns.
What this company needs to do, is either put the guy on contract, or make his home a satellite office, and pay him from the TN office.
Agreed. If you can't fight the beast of the NY government, just say you're a satellite office of the company. Or go contract so he can handle his own taxes in his own state. | |
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Just another guy wit
@cox.net
| Multiple states I work as part of a sales team and my territory covers 6 states. I travel to all six states throughout the year visiting [potential] customers. If I had to file 6 different returns, I wouldn't be in this job. I wouldn't CARE who got the money at that point - it wouldn't be worth the hassle. | |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| hmmmmm.............. California was doing this with home sales...if you sold your home and bought one in another state they were assessing you 3% I believe....I think that was overturned......not that this is any consolation, but it is nice to know that "kalifornia"
isnt the only state that tries to hose people....they just need to stop this cr@p....period......
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BlooMe | |
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| internetlol2
join:2005-01-04
Fairfax, VA
| Re: hmmmmm.............. It's not all that uncommon for an employee who works in one state and lives in another to have tax withheld from their working state. Just ask anybody who works in NYC but lives in NJ. Usually when they file their own personal taxes they get credit from their home state for whatever they have paid to their working state. The difference here is that the employee isn't located anywhere near his working state. | |
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klinker
join:2002-08-27
Schenectady, NY
| Sounds normal to me. As an Accountant in NYS I see this stuff all the time. We do taxes for a shipping business that derives income from 36 different states, and yes that means filing tax returns with all of them.
The man will not be double taxed however. What tax he pays to NYS will be a credit on his Tennessee return. If NYS tax rate is higher then he will pay nothing to Tennessee on that income. If Tennessee has a higher tax then he pays the difference.
NYS Tax Dept is greedy, no surprises here. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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cevans59
Premium
join:2003-08-14
Smithton, IL
| Really any different ? Is this really that much different from somebody that lives in one state but commutes to another for work? I live in Illinois but work in Missouri and I do about 50% of my work from home.
Now I pay Missouri tax but not Illinois, so according to the consensus here I should pay each state 50%, what a mess that would be with different tax rates.
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When the impossible becomes the probable, reality fades and the fun begins. | |
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Louis Cypherr
@208.2.x.x | Precedent | |
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Telecommuting Income Tax
