 Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
edit:
May 17th, @05:36PM
| no way... bpl will go nowhere and i hope it fails... | |
|  | 
DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA | Re: no way... And Wimax is any different...sheesh, that's a hype machine too, with a questionable future. | |
| | | David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
 ·Be There
| Re: no way... said by DHRacer  :And Wimax is any different...sheesh, that's a hype machine too, with a questionable future. At least WiMax does not pollute the most sensitive parts of the radio spectrum. | |
| | 
antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
| said by Asmodeus1 :bpl will go nowhere and i hope it fails... I can't get broadband service here. BPL would be fine.  | |
| | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA | Re: no way... bpl would be the worst thing you ever asked for... | |
| | | |
antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
| Re: no way... said by Asmodeus1 :bpl would be the worst thing you ever asked for... Worse than dial-up and satellite (expensive and slow)? | |
| | | | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: no way... said by antdude :said by Asmodeus1 :bpl would be the worst thing you ever asked for... Worse than dial-up and satellite (expensive and slow)? if you value your ability to use electronic communications properly, then i'd say YES, it would be and is worse than just about any type of electronic communication facility out there right now...
you have to compare BPL implementation with a similar situation involving a high tech company being taken public and making its owners wealthy... they don't want a bunch of hobbyists asking lots of questions and scaring off investors, greedy and stupid utilities and gullible municipalities... BPL is strictly a money making venture and nothing more, not because it will benefit you, but because it will produce nothing in the end and a lot of people would have and iwll pay for the privilege of saying they did and have nothing to show for it in the end... | |
| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| If you live in a sparsely populated rural area, you wouldn't get BPL either. Read the article and the companies even admit it would cost more to deploy it to rural areas than highly populated cities who, for the most part, already have some type of high speed access. | |
| | 
justmesqui
Just-
Premium
join:2004-05-14
BH9 2RJ | same here !!
i believe more in UWB over gas lines | |
| | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| the problem is, is that most of you people are dupes... you will believe any new piece of crap hype that comes down the pike... who says you need BPL...? why...? just because it comes down through your power lines...? do you even understand what you are getting...? it's hard enough to transmit power with the least amount of resistance across these vast lengths of lines and now you want to transmit signals and packets across them too...?
get a clue people, bpl is one of the worst things that could happen to broadband, ever... it will literally cause so much RFI and EMI problems that it will render many things useless... you have no idea what BPL is capable of in terms of the harm it can do... | |
| | 
Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA | While it may not go anywhere, success in BPL would further fuel competition between DSL & cable.
--
»www.ckt.com | |
| | | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: no way... said by Phil :While it may not go anywhere, success in BPL would further fuel competition between DSL & cable. uh, that is an absolute falsehood since cable and dsl providers already know what a scam it is anyway and do not see it as any kind of competitive vehicle to begin with... remember, they have already done the analysis and i'm pretty sure, they are just chuckling at how they can get into the money grab themselves... please don't fool yourself into thinking that this is a legitimate venture that will fuel some sort of competition because it won't... if anything, it will only serve to remove money from peoples pockets on the notion of its hype... | |
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | All BPL would do is drive people back to DSL or cable when it fails to live up to its hype and the speeds are no where near that of the competition. | |
| 
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Pangea | monorail.... who's buying? not me. they got one in shelbyville don't they? | |
| | 
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
edit:
May 17th, @06:24PM
| Re: monorail.... Monorail wasn't this one of Robert Crumb's favorite metaphors. I don't expect anyone under 45 to even come close knowing this:D | |
| | |
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Pangea
edit:
May 17th, @06:27PM
| Re: monorail.... as long as one person got it, then my mission has been completed. (lol quit editing for age.) | |
| | | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
edit:
May 17th, @07:13PM
| Re: monorail.... said by xdeadhead :(lol quit editing for age.) Point taken; I honestly wouldn't expect many people my age to get this. But unlike so many out there I was in San Francisco 1969 during, the so called, summer of love. It was at this time I was introduced to Robert Crumbs work, and learned why
Anglefood McSpade was illegal;)
--
Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you.
| |
| | | | | 
John Galt
Spricket24
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Oceanside, OR
| Re: monorail.... Natural..ly!
--
A is A | |
| | | | | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: monorail....
First Test of a new BPL hookup |
| |
| | | | | | |
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Pangea | Re: monorail.... LMAO at transmaster...bet you all didnt know he posed for that comic book cover. | |
| | | | | | | |
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: monorail.... No I didn't, but knowing Robert Crumb I am not surprised | |
| | | | | | | | |
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Pangea | Re: monorail.... you cant reply to a joke about yourself lol | |
| | | | | | |
John Galt
Spricket24
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Oceanside, OR | Ha-ha!
Boy, does THAT bring back memories...!
--
A is A | |
| 
woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
edit:
May 17th, @05:45PM
| ........ Instead of reinventing the wheel, just improve,fix the one(s) we have
--
BlooMe | |
| 
CPM
join:2001-08-24
Miami, FL | Pigs fly Yeah, when pigs fly. | |
| David95037
join:2003-04-16
Morgan Hill, CA
·Be There
| UK Ofcom (same as FCC) on BPL Ofcom the UK regulator ran extensive BPL tests and said;
“It is concluded that the Amperion PLT product as tested is not and cannot be, FCC part 15 compliant above 30MHz.”
“It was just possible to identify the characteristic sound of the PLC signal around 48 MHz at a distance of 3 km from the line”
More here;
»www.ofcom.org.uk/research/techno···werline/
DSL could be available to anyone with a phone line, the only barrier is the FCC. | |
| | hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
 ·buckeye cable
 ·Time Warner VOIP
 ·1and1
| Re: UK Ofcom (same as FCC) on BPL how is the FCC but barrier of DSL? Its up to the LEC to expand the RTs and the fiber that's needed. Not up to the FCC. The only thing the Bells don't like is they have to share their DSL. If it wasn't for wireless and cable we'd still be back on Dial-Up with the Bell's saying there is no need for broadband. | |
| markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| What a stupid thing Newsforge says I guess they don't want to account for the thousands of people who do use it without problems in other countries? Just because it did not catch on in the US its "over hyped"? please. Its being deployed, and being sold successfully in many Europe countries.
A handful of places are using it in the US, not trials mind you, working communities have access to it if desired. The only reason its not being deployed in the US as much other countries is:
1. The US electric grid is a lot harder to deploy it that Europe (read AC vs DC)
2. All companies that want to deploy it are in areas with other broadband options. IT IS NOT MEANT TO COMPETE IT IS A LAST RESOURCE BROADBAND. There i said it, the media needs to know that :P
Common sense indeed.. | |
| | 
AJ5TT
join:2003-08-17
Friendswood, TX
| Re: What a stupid thing Newsforge says markopoleo,
Catch on in the US? From what I read, several BPL installations did not meet the requirements imposed by the FCC so the sites shut down before any FCC intervention.
Can you elaborate on item 1. The last time I was in Europe, they were using AC for their power grid.
As far as BPL, as long it is within the existing laws on the books and regulations set forth by the FCC. | |
| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: What a stupid thing Newsforge says said by AJ5TT :markopoleo, Catch on in the US? From what I read, several BPL installations did not meet the requirements imposed by the FCC so the sites shut down before any FCC intervention. Can you elaborate on item 1. The last time I was in Europe, they were using AC for their power grid. Good luck. This guy has been called out multiple times and never backs up anything he says. Post and run troll. | |
| | | | 
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: What a stupid thing Newsforge says said by moonpuppy :said by AJ5TT :markopoleo, Catch on in the US? From what I read, several BPL installations did not meet the requirements imposed by the FCC so the sites shut down before any FCC intervention. Can you elaborate on item 1. The last time I was in Europe, they were using AC for their power grid. Good luck. This guy has been called out multiple times and never backs up anything he says. Post and run troll. Ditto. He's made the DC claim three or four times and has never posted any supporting information despite multiple requests. His credibility here is at about zero. | |
| | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
edit:
May 19th, @09:16AM
| markopoleo chimes into every BPL thread with baseless claims that he cannot and will never support with facts. He has been offered great insights and information about BPL and the laws of physics, but does not seem to let the truth bother or shake his delusions about BPL. He seems incapable of evaluating the whole scenario beyond his own hopes and wishes.
Good luck in trying though,
Rob | |
| | 
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | The only DC in use in Europe today is for cross utility feeds where one utility supplies another. This to ensure that the cascade that brought out a huge chunk of the NorthEast recently never happens there. | |
| | Asmodeus1
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| said by markopoleo :I guess they don't want to account for the thousands of people who do use it without problems in other countries? Just because it did not catch on in the US its "over hyped"? please. Its being deployed, and being sold successfully in many Europe countries. A handful of places are using it in the US, not trials mind you, working communities have access to it if desired. The only reason its not being deployed in the US as much other countries is: 1. The US electric grid is a lot harder to deploy it that Europe (read AC vs DC) 2. All companies that want to deploy it are in areas with other broadband options. IT IS NOT MEANT TO COMPETE IT IS A LAST RESOURCE BROADBAND. There i said it, the media needs to know that :P Common sense indeed.. i should never tempt a troll, but here goes... do a little bit of searching before any of your hands leave your pants and come near a keyboard again...
»BPL Trial Shelved
not to mention the japanese have already tried this and discarded the idea altogether...
also, the NTIA has already released a summary report with concerns over BPL...
»www.cq-vhf.com/NTIA%20Report%20May52004.html
and there is more from where that come from, if you would like, i can hammer you over the head with reeds of information on the failure that is BPL, just like your above post... | |
| | |
See 8 replies to this post | |
| w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| "I guess they don't want to account for the thousands of people who do use it without problems in other countries? Just because it did not catch on in the US its "over hyped"? please. Its being deployed, and being sold successfully in many Europe countries."
Uhhh they are testing it also in europe and other places, and they have failed in many countries already, BPL is for instance BANNED from Japan, and I will repeat a post above that says another place in europe is failing...the following is from the official ARRL website, and I as an ARRL member can post it.
NEWINGTON, CT, May 11, 2005--Ofcom, the UK's telecommunications regulatory agency, has concluded that Amperion BPL equipment deployed in a field trial in Scotland "as tested is not and cannot be FCC Part 15 compliant above 30 MHz." Ofcom today released a study, "Amperion PLT Measurements in Crieff," which summarizes measurements it took at the site in Scotland. PLT is another term for BPL. Ofcom's investigation also demonstrated the limitations of Amperion's "notching" capabilities to mitigate interference to radio reception. ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, says Ofcom's study reflects what the League and others have known all along about BPL.
"Ofcom's measurements and conclusions are consistent with ours, and with what we have been saying all along about BPL in general and Amperion in particular," Sumner said. "It's a shame that we have to look overseas to find a regulator who will say what truly needs to be said: Medium voltage power lines are no place for HF broadband data."
Read my keystrokes - another country in europe is saying this crap sucks! | |
| | emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | No its not... | |
| subman87
Another day in the Brentwood
join:2000-11-24
Harrison, NY | drop dead BPL I think the power companies better put there money into looking to alternative power so customers like me don't have to pay outrageous utlity bills each winter. | |
| | 
johnsea66
Cool Down
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Re: drop dead BPL Absolutely, totally and completely agree with you.
--
»monctonhigh.ca | |
| | | Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ | Re: drop dead BPL After the first 900 grammatical errors on the first page, I couldn't read anymore. I am not sure how accurate this information could be from someone who can't even write. | |
| | | | | | 
fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Um, hate to tell you this, but "alternative" does not equate to "cheaper". Most utilities currently generate using the cheapest available RELIABLE and proven means--primarily coal and to a lesser extent natural gas and fuel oil. There are plenty of "alternative" sources out there, geothermal, solar, landfill methane, waste gassification, and wind to name but a few. In almost every case, these options are more expensive and/or less reliable/available per kwh than coal currently is.
Nuclear is an "alternative" but it's more expensive (because of maintenance, regulatory costs, and waste disposal) and you won't find many people who want a reactor in their back yard after the whole TMI thing.
--
When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other. | |
| | | 
kangabil
Do It Now, Do It Right
Premium
join:2005-05-15
Australia
| Re: drop dead BPL Interesting.
I work a few miles from the town QUEANBEYAN, New South Wales, Australia, where the third News Forge "Here" link on the third page of their article points.
The trial seems to have been a complete dud using existing line systems and I think that says it all. Fancy comparing ADSL and optic fibre cable capability with 25 year old insulators and bolted open air connections across dirty insulators.
BUT if I could interest some suckers in buying shares in planting pineapples on the top of the Empire State Building I'm ready to trade!! | |
| 
ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| Always Diplomacy:
The art of saying "Nice doggie", Until you can find a rock.
There are always 2 sides to a debate, and facts will be buttered up from proponents of the same side, and melted down by opponents of the opposite side.
--
ASUS SK8N nForce3 - 8GB PC2700 - AXP 64 3400+ - nVidia 6800 Ultra w/512mb - CL Audigy 2 PP - WD SATA150 36GB + Hitachi GST 250GB - Plextor PX708A + Sony CRX300A - Dual 600 Watt PSU's. | |
| |
See 11 replies to this post | |
zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA
| Trolls and such Trolls(ARRL) hate BPL and to Me BPL is Like attracting a moth to a Bug lite(Zap):D, Although not everyone who wants to mention or talk about anything about It is a troll, But there are a few and BPL seems to bring them out. Even If one of the BPL projects doesn't involve the spectrum Ham radio occupies, Some would jump on It and try to denounce It anyway, At least DSL and Cable are safe from the ARRL.:D Unless they are "radical return to 19th century technology types"(RRTNTCTT).
--
Firefox forever!
»zoom314.blogspot.com/
»mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/ | |
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Trolls and such A troll puts out FUD hoping to catch fish in net. However, the ARRL and the rest of those who know have put up fact as to why BPL is bad.
DSL is safe because it does not interfere with anything. Cable did have issues with the VHF high band if the connections weren't tight. However, most of the times, the cable company is smart enough to make sure it doesn't put out spurious emissions and keep its signal in the cable instead of the open air. Also, if the connections are not tight then the signal going into the house is subject to degradation resulting in possible poor picture quality and slow internet connection. | |
| |
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by zoom314 :Even If one of the BPL projects doesn't involve the spectrum Ham radio occupies, Some would jump on It and try to denounce It anyway, At least DSL and Cable are safe from the ARRL.:D Unless they are "radical return to 19th century technology types"(RRTNTCTT). Hams don't oppose broadband, they oppose interference from BPL. Even if a particular BPL system doesn't use ham spectrum, there's plenty of other services it could potentially interfere with. Denouncing BPL, regardless of the frequencies it is using is based on engineering principles, not a dislike of the Internet or those opposing technology as you would suggest. No one has a problem with cable and DSL systems from an interference standpoint because they simply were designed properly to not emit the frequencies they use.
And by the way, copper pairs, fiber optics, coaxial cable were all invented in the 19th century. Unshielded wires like those carrying BPL were invented in the 18th century. | |
| | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| The fault of your premise is the misguided belief that the ARRL, Hams, NTIA, etc. are AGAINST broadband. The point is very clearly that the concern is about one particular method of delivery. No one anywhere has spoken against BPL because they were speaking against broadband. As I had mentioned a few threads in the past, cable TV signals are sent down the cable using a ham radio frequency. There is peaceful coexistence...why? Because the cable TV system was designed from the ground up to meet its intended purpose and is designed to shield the signal from being propagated beyond the cable. Likewise, they coexist because even though I may transmit on that same frequency (a local repeater uses that as an output frequency) I do not bring cable TV to its knees because of the shielding and the intended purposeful design of the CATV system.
said by zoom314 :Trolls(ARRL) hate BPL and to Me BPL is Like attracting a moth to a Bug lite(Zap):D, Although not everyone who wants to mention or talk about anything about It is a troll, But there are a few and BPL seems to bring them out. Even If one of the BPL projects doesn't involve the spectrum Ham radio occupies, Some would jump on It and try to denounce It anyway, At least DSL and Cable are safe from the ARRL.:D Unless they are "radical return to 19th century technology types"(RRTNTCTT). | |
| 
gwion
wild colonial boy
Premium,ExMod 2003-08
join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Two words: "fiber optics" ... which are, in fact, "new". X over power lines is roughly as old as those wonderfully nostalgic Crumb comics, up there. Anybody else use X-10 controls in the house? I love 'em. Here's the zinger; X-10 was a "new technology" in ~ 1968. You could also buy intercom systems, back then, that used the power lines of your home instead of dedicated wiring or radio frequencies. This is old tech. Old, second rate tech, for high tolerence communications. Seriously, ever used one of those intercoms? The refrigerator comes on and you hear the static. The only place the tech might have a place is local systems. And, even there, it's going to be second rate. Why didn't home networking over power lines ever catch on? Back before wireless became economical, there were quite a few very slow, marginally dependable networking schemes that involved using the power lines in your home. No cat 5! No market penetration, either.
Fiber optics to the neighborhood, the curb and the home will become ubiquitous in a decade or so. Every telco in the country will eventually have to move to 100% fiber, someday soon, or be hopelessly stuck in the last century. Cable will be forced to upgrade and expand their systems to compete. And BPL will, probably, still be a glint in some subsidized, grant craving tech ninny's eye. Hint: "works in theory" and "works" are two related but entirely different things.
When, exactly, all this said, do they intend to roll out a high QoS, dependable BPL system, anyway? The day after the Hooterville Telephone Company and Cattle Exchange finishes installing its last mile of FTTP? This has to be one of the most exasperatingly wasteful, retro, weird science ideas going, right now. If we're looking for good places to toss money, maybe a starting point might be getting more fiber out faster, and into some of these underserved areas. Bluntly, they don't have to reinvent the wheel to deploy BPL. That wheel was invented a half century ago. It never caught on, for a relatively good reason. It never worked altogether that well. It was alright for low QoS, localized use, controls operation, and things along those lines, granted. You can inject spikes into the sine wave trivially, and use them to make things switch. Getting them to cross transformers and switches and all that's another story, of course. But if you don't have to, they work famously.
Now, try sharing a huge copper line between tons of extremely low frequency electromagnetic radiation and a dependable communications network. Power companies, take note: you own the rights of way, demmit!!! Get it? Hang fiber on those poles, just below those power lines, and sell internet service on that. It'll cost less, and work better, in the long haul. And you can sell the excess capacity... duh! In the meantime, please, don't inflate my power rates tossing good money after bad down a deep, dark rathole ... where (I suspect) the rat's reading this story over a fiber optical connection on his little rat sized computer (I wonder what he calls his mouse?  ) and laughing so hard, he's sputtering cheese all over the keyboard.
--
Semper Eadem
I can saw a woman in two
But you won't want to look in the box when I do
I can make love disappear
For my next trick, I'll need a volunteer | |
| | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: Two words: "fiber optics" "X over power lines is roughly as old as those wonderfully nostalgic Crumb comics, up there. Anybody else use X-10 controls in the house? I love 'em. Here's the zinger; X-10 was a "new technology" in ~ 1968."
Yes I use X-10 to control remote cameras for our video camera alarm system. Just one more reason why I don't want BPL, it will totally screw up that system along with many other systems like garage door openers, baby monitors, wireless doorbell systems etc. the list goes on and on what BPL will screw up. And some of these types of equipment will suffer "conducted" noise rather than "radiated" noise, they both can render many things useless.
Now you also know that any EMI filtered power strips and/or UPS equipment must be removed from you system before BPL will work. I have noticed with my X-10 system that any power strip in the room or even adjacent rooms will block the signals. And I absolutely must have the UPS running on the master pc, it cannot be removed, but is well away from the X-10 stuff so it still works. Now if I wanted to run BPL on the pc, I would basically have to remove the UPS and any power strips/ line conditioners that have EMI filtering (99% do today), before the BPL signal would work on the computer. I don't know about you but I want my UPS running and I want the EMI filtered power strips/ line conditioners, with the lightening we get here it's a must! This is just another fact that the pro-BPL folks just won't tell you about. Until it's too late!!! | |
| 
anonono
@charter.com | Summer of Love I thought the Summer of Love was in 1967. | |
| | mc5w
join:2002-06-14
Independence, OH
| Re: Summer of Love The power companies around here already use Power Line Carrier for capacitor controls. Cleveland Public Power is also using PLC for Automatic Meter Reading. All of these systems operate below 300 KHz where interference is not a problem. The power companies have also chosen to use VHF radio for load control devices for certain kinds of discount residential rates. This is because getting a PLC signal to cross transformers is much more difficult than buying a pager frequency or subcontracting to a pager company.
There are also enough radio and television towers around here that I am surprised that there are no wireless ISPs.
If there is a shortage of raido and television towers then the power company will have a hard time getting 2-way voice radios to work. Therfore, a rural coop would be just as well to put up some towers and go into the wireless ISP business to help pay for the towers for the voice radios. | |
|
Ambiguous Existence
@net.au
|  I know the answer to cheap fast broadband
Move the control to government, such as we have in australia SBS and ABC channel, which show more educational, graphic media and shows which commercial channels woudl be to scared to broadcast. Our broadband companies are horrible we are so far behind in speed and competitive price compared to the rest of teh world, so teh only way to improve that is get rid of teh private companies that dont care about the customers eg. optus, telstra. Also the government has the power to change teh way teh connections and information will flow and can make each city a smal local area connected to each other and only passing information to and from recipitents that are within teh area or outside teh local network and hooking it all up to an external optic fibre that connect sto teh rest of teh world and only passes information through there if it is required to. to achieve this it is very simple, explain and show teh government how high speed cable and cheap cable exploits its wider area of residents to the outside world and enable them to communicate over the net through voice confrencing with other companies overseas increasing productivity efficiency and sparking new ideas into business within teh country therefore icreasing the revenue which teh government bebefits from, and also the kids having access to teh latest information and sparking there intrests in many different areas and educating them at a far greater level than currently is possible making more inteligent and smarter kids that will turn into more productive workforce and inventors as they get older. thast my $0.02 worth | |
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BPL: God of Hype
·