 doppler
join:2003-03-31
Blue Point, NY |
Intel spin controlSorry it has spun out of control.
Nothing said by PR can fix it. | |
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Re: Intel spin controlExactly, just more of this "you can't do that" nonsense with the goods I pay for. | |
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anonpronman to doppler
Anon
2005-Jun-2 3:52 pm
to doppler
Your computer Still remains under there control and it's only going to get worse.. Hold on it's going to be a bumpy ride. | |
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| | MordhemLove it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD |
Re: Intel spin controlThat's the reason god invented crackers. (or) who have you lol | |
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 oliphantI Have 8 Boobies
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit |
oliphant
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 1:14 pm
What's the pointif it can be disabled. said by News Item:
Several things of note: the DRM can be disabled, and other chip...
This sounds like the ill-fated processor ID. --
Life is good without the headache of Comcrap HSI | |
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Re: What's the pointI think it's to get the foot in the door.
This gen, it's "look, it can be disabled! No big deal!"
Next gen everything you own is locked down. | |
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Re: What's the pointFor sure. First they gauge your reaction, then after time passes and no one is looking make it permanent. | |
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| | |  intellerSociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK |
Re: What's the pointthis seems to be a popular belief in the various corporate circles of greed. | |
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Re: What's the pointAnything can be done, with enough persistence and patience. Remember how much people groaned about "product activation"? Given that we now have "services" like Steam, where you can't even run the application without permission, product activation doesn't seem so bad. Remember, folks - it all started with dongles and special codes.
And it's not just corporations, but government as well. The PATRIOT act was voted on just over a week after 9/11. Do you really think they wrote that entire bill in 1 week? No, that sucker died in committee several times. Eventually, though, they were able to use terrorism as an excuse to pass it.
It isn't without good reason that our founding fathers (I forget which) said that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty". | |
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| | | | |  guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA |
Re: What's the pointsaid by radarman7:Anything can be done, with enough persistence and patience. Remember how much people groaned about "product activation"? Given that we now have "services" like Steam, where you can't even run the application without permission, product activation doesn't seem so bad. Remember, folks - it all started with dongles and special codes. And it's not just corporations, but government as well. The PATRIOT act was voted on just over a week after 9/11. Do you really think they wrote that entire bill in 1 week? No, that sucker died in committee several times. Eventually, though, they were able to use terrorism as an excuse to pass it. It isn't without good reason that our founding fathers (I forget which) said that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty". You are 110% correct with your observation | |
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| | | | | |  nivagoThink For Yourself
join:2000-11-16
Little Rock, AR |
nivago
Member
2005-Jun-2 3:44 pm
Re: What's the point100% wasn't enough?  | |
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to radarman7
_quote_
It isn't without good reason that our founding fathers (I forget which) said that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".
-=-> Thomas Jefferson.... | |
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| | | | | |  TitusMr Gradenko
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1 |
Titus
Member
2005-Jun-4 9:29 am
Re: What's the pointsaid by presguy:
_quote_
It isn't without good reason that our founding fathers (I forget which) said that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".
-=-> Thomas Jefferson....
Actually, the quote was in a speech by Wendell Phillips; the Jefferson attribution is a common misconeption. But it's good to see not all the sheeple People® have their eyes wide shut  --
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass | |
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| |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:This gen, it's "look, it can be disabled! No big deal!" But anything you can tell your computer to disable, a rogue program can tell to re-enable. It's like setting the read-only flag on a file in Windows Explorer and telling another program which reads the file to unset the read-only flag so that it can overwrite the file. Making the DRM "optional" like this solves nothing. --
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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| | | oliphantI Have 8 Boobies
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA |
oliphant
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 1:38 pm
Re: What's the pointWhat if it's done in the BIOS? Meaning could a rouge program say enable or disable hyper-threading on the HW level?
--
Life is good without the headache of Comcrap HSI | |
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Re: What's the pointEver flash or upgrade your bios or firmware for some other hardware like a Linksys router?
All that is, is a program that knows how to talk directly to the BIOS. A "rouge" program can do the same thing, the BIOS doesn't know any better.
I believe there was actually a Java or Flash webpage that could re-enable the Processor ID in the BIOS, it would at least require a reboot. But that's easy to do, just a simple popup worded right telling a user to reboot and you've got it enabled.
This DRM crap needs not be put in any hardware at all. Right now, Intel has lost my next purchase because of the DRM stuff. AMD, if they know whats good for them, better not follow suit. Only thing Intel can do now is to say that they have changed their minds and won't be putting it in nor will it ever be in any processor.
I want a fast CPU. Fast, efficent and stable. Not handcuffs. Not limitations. I wonder how much this will slow down a CPU having to do all this extra DRM crap. | |
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| | | | |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY |
Re: What's the pointI dont understand why they would put DRM into it in the first place. Can someone please explain what intel hopes to accomplish by doing this?? I am very confused.....  --
Now THATS superfluous!! | |
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Re: What's the pointProbably paying Intel to do so. Most likely a ton of money. Actually probably several tons of money. Probably have to ship it in via train there's so much money. | |
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| | | | | | |  koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK |
koolman2
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 2:56 pm
Re: What's the pointI thought the **AA lost all their money due to pirates? | |
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to clickwir
said by clickwir:(snip) This DRM crap needs not be put in any hardware at all. Right now, Intel has lost my next purchase because of the DRM stuff. AMD, if they know whats good for them, better not follow suit. Only thing Intel can do now is to say that they have changed their minds and won't be putting it in nor will it ever be in any processor. (snip) What if AMD does it on all future chips, as well as Intel? What will you switch to? Mac/PowerPC? This isn't meant to be offensive - this whole idea of hardware DRM/a future of trusted computing scares me... In the U.S., for a free country, in some respects we already seem to be headed a little too far down the Orwellian path... | |
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| | | | | |  Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 3:49 pm
Re: What's the pointHopefully the Linux flavors become more desktop-friendly by that point to entice those of use phreaked by hardware DRM.
Should Windows realy become hostile, I'd easily have to say that I'd pick up Linux before I'd sell off my hardware/games/life to Macintoshes. | |
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to unigamer
said by unigamer:said by clickwir:(snip) This DRM crap needs not be put in any hardware at all. Right now, Intel has lost my next purchase because of the DRM stuff. AMD, if they know whats good for them, better not follow suit. Only thing Intel can do now is to say that they have changed their minds and won't be putting it in nor will it ever be in any processor. (snip) What if AMD does it on all future chips, as well as Intel? What will you switch to? Mac/PowerPC? This isn't meant to be offensive - this whole idea of hardware DRM/a future of trusted computing scares me... In the U.S., for a free country, in some respects we already seem to be headed a little too far down the Orwellian path... The day that happens is the day I swap to either a mac (if they don't bend to this) or it is the day i turn on my computer for the last time. I would probably wait for the one i had to die then after that it's over. Btw does any one know why this country has a tendency to destroy anything they can't regulate or gouge with taxes ? Also if it is fun and maybe "dirty" they tear it down till it has nothing left then wonder why it's gone, geee I wonder why that died. --
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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SMM rules all to oliphant
Anon
2005-Jun-3 10:02 am
to oliphant
said by "oliphant":
What if it's done in the BIOS? Meaning could a rouge program say enable or disable hyper-threading on the HW level?
This isn't very well-known, but BIOS (specifically, SMM mode, triggered by SMI and other means), has HIGHER priority than even "protected mode", even moreso than "Ring 0" kernel mode. That is - SMM mode/SMI interrupts, can actually *pre-empt* a running OS kernel, and from that point, do ANYTHING to the system - including spying on otherwise kernel-priviledged parts of the memory or hardware. | |
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| |  LegoPower77Abecedarian
Premium Member
join:2002-08-03
Midlothian, VA |
to Karl Bode
Tries to sooth fears over processors with DRM I think you mean "soothe." | |
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Re: everyone's a criticsaid by LegoPower77:Tries to sooth fears over processors with DRM I think you mean "soothe." I type at 140 words per minute. I drop letters sometimes. Want to fight? | |
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| | | | Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 3:51 pm
Re: everyone's a critic"So I got a hidden tunnel system. Big deal, wanna fight about it?"
Hehe...oh thank goodness for random Family Guy lines. | |
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|  dadkinsCan you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 |
to oliphant
I imagine it will be kind of like some security apps but on the hardware level... you disable it but parts keep running anyways. I sure hope I am wrong. Still not a good path to be starting down.  | |
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| | guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA |
Re: What's the pointMost likely Intel and other corps.Will buy off some politicians.To get it included in the Patroit Act
to have it classified national security,and as such it will be called a national security product.LEASED to not owned by end users.So that if tampered with to turn DRM bull shit off.One becomes an
instant felony,subject to 20 years in a federal pen without any hope of early parole release,not even work release.Then one must waive all future use of computers, including but not limited to all rights recoginized by the Constitution. | |
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Re: What's the pointsaid by guitarzan:Most likely Intel and other corps.Will buy off some politicians.To get it included in the Patroit Act to have it classified national security,and as such it will be called a national security product.LEASED to not owned by end users.So that if tampered with to turn DRM bull shit off.One becomes an instant felony,subject to 20 years in a federal pen without any hope of early parole release,not even work release.Then one must waive all future use of computers, including but not limited to all rights recoginized by the Constitution. OK.. I've been enthralled by conspiracy theories before, but you really need to wean yourself off the rogue Net articles, talk radio, and any related material - before you go insane.  | |
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| | | | guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA |
Re: What's the pointsaid by unigamer:said by guitarzan:Most likely Intel and other corps.Will buy off some politicians.To get it included in the Patroit Act to have it classified national security,and as such it will be called a national security product.LEASED to not owned by end users.So that if tampered with to turn DRM bull shit off.One becomes an instant felony,subject to 20 years in a federal pen without any hope of early parole release,not even work release.Then one must waive all future use of computers, including but not limited to all rights recoginized by the Constitution. OK.. I've been enthralled by conspiracy theories before, but you really need to wean yourself off the rogue Net articles, talk radio, and any related material - before you go insane. Here's you chance to jump on the ground floor and begin a new one | |
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| | | | | guitarzan |
to unigamer
How far from the truth am I? lets see.Orwin Hatch was bought off. In the news yesterday at BBR.A Pete whats his name is sponsoring a (HR)House Rule to ban muni-wifi at a national level no doubt from bucket loads of money fron telco's. Verizon recieved billions from Pa,then skipped town, scott free.Al Gore solicited campaign bribes err money directly from the Whitehouse.Vise Pres.Dick Chenny that name vise fits lol.Has a halibuerton skeleton around his neck.Microsoft has/had anti trust law suits in various countries.The Homeland Security HAS already shut down torrent sites.One already does not own,but leases the OS.Whats to stop corporations,from waving fist fulls of money to politicians, to fill up their coffiers err pockets.To get special treatment on an already registered trademark.? It's a stretch i know.With enough money anything can become reality.I do not visit or read,rogue Net articles, nor watch or listen to talk radio, and any related material TYVM | |
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to dadkins
said by dadkins:I imagine it will be kind of like some security apps but on the hardware level... you disable it but parts keep running anyways. I sure hope I am wrong. Still not a good path to be starting down. A best guess at this point.Is that the CPU in question.Will be hard coded with a set of instructions.(Like a mini OS) That runs on the chip itself.Shielded from The main OS.That includes it's own bios Pre-coded at factory level.Say for example MMX or amd's 3D-now technology.Contained in something like the on die cache or meg.?? Just my wild guess. Ideas anyone.? | |
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|  wmcbrine213 251 145 96
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1 |
to oliphant
This is how it works: A "content provider" will only provide their content to systems that have it enabled. If you disable it, you lose access to that content. So it's not really meaningful to say that it can be disabled.
Currently this type of system has very low market penetration, so few if any providers will do that... yet. But in the long run, the only way to keep this from taking hold is to not patronize the providers who do use it.
Which may be easier said than done; then again, look at Divx -- not the codec, but the crippled DVD format that was soundly rejected by the public. Divx proves that we can stop this sort of thing. | |
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| |  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 |
morbo
Member
2005-Jun-2 4:33 pm
Re: What's the pointsaid by wmcbrine:Which may be easier said than done; then again, look at Divx -- not the codec, but the crippled DVD format that was soundly rejected by the public. Divx proves that we can stop this sort of thing. ugh. divx. --
no sig | |
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| | guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
2 edits |
to wmcbrine
Look beyond the "content provider" What have we got? 1st off I see Microsoft,putting the most effort and money behind Intel.MS having the most to lose and the most $$$ to fund it.2nd Most likely software companies..IE (games,DVD software) as silent partners, so as not to disrupt it's sales or profit margins.3rd the regimes of the "content providers",Greedily happy and having their lust sated, because all P2P apps,burning & ripping apps have been put to pasture finally.Defeating right of fair use..etc I will stop at 3 examples.See post above about rogue sites and such.So I do not like getting accused of conspiracy theories. BTW: These Azz holes makes my cranium ache | |
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to oliphant
said by oliphant:if it can be disabled. said by News Item:
Several things of note: the DRM can be disabled, and other chip...
This sounds like the ill-fated processor ID. Where have you seen that it can be disabled? That doesn't make any sense at all. | |
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| | oliphantI Have 8 Boobies
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA |
oliphant
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 6:28 pm
Re: What's the pointThe news item that was quoted in that post. | |
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to oliphant
said by oliphant:if it can be disabled. said by News Item:
Several things of note: the DRM can be disabled, and other chip...
This sounds like the ill-fated processor ID. That was what I thinking too. Now, once it is disabled, how do I know for sure "IT IS" disabled? Or I should ask this question: Who is going to monitor the people who monitor the people who monitor us? | |
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the road to hell....i meanthe road is taking us back to the palladium!(or whatever the new name was) | |
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 C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ |
C0deZer0
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 1:21 pm
Disabled, nothing...How about I don't want it there, period?
Even Intel had to start making PSN-less Pentium 3's eventually. | |
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vernalex
Premium Member
join:2000-10-19
Manchester, CT |
vernalex
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 1:28 pm
No excuseThere's no excuse for this and it has significantly hurt Intel's credibility, in my eyes. I don't want DRM. I realize it could make computers more reliable in the futurevision, but it would make the computer less mine. I don't want to rent my computers. I don't consider DRM a feature and I don't want to pay for it. | |
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 DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 |
DRM inside ;)Lets see, will intel see a drop from investors, after this news leaks out, and geeks revolt ?
--
Liberalism weakening The USA everyday... | |
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My apologies to Shakespere butCrap by any other name still stinks  DRM / DTCP or whatever else they decide to call it - is all about content restriction. | |
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Unregistered User
Anon
2005-Jun-2 2:08 pm
DRM that can be disabled is no DRM at allWhat I mean by the subject line is that DRM that can be disabled is useless, so don't look for the ability to disable it to last. After all, how will DRM help the **AA if it can just be turned off?
No, offering the ability to disable it is just a ploy to deflect bad PR. If it's a user-centric thing, then why not sell it as an add-on card? That way, if you want it, you can buy it. Nope, this will become mandatory if it's allowed to gain a foothold. | |
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drthdharehaerdont trust them....id be willing to bet that the AA's are funding this kind of digital management in some way or another. | |
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| Newegg4Comcast steals modems
join:2004-11-14
Norcross, GA |
Re: drthdharehaerOf course they are funding it. | |
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| guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA |
to rob_in_chatt
While Intel says the new chips "do not have unannounced, embedded DRM technology".
Intel making a statement like that.INTEL can never be trusted again.This is just the trial version.Revisions soon to follow.
Once it's embedded and turned on.It will never be turned off,Regardless of how Intel's spin doctors spin this crap.
Intel has already placed it there.Can one honestly believe or trust what they say now or in the future.?
BTW:I always got the impression spin doctors.Are NOTHING but liars,to cover the truth,Purposely mislead.To try to keep up an image of credibility,once caught with red handed with
their hands in the cookie jar. Fuggin Azzwipe bastids | |
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Newegg4Comcast steals modems
join:2004-11-14
Norcross, GA |
This is just the beginningEverybody needs to buy shit now and stock up on everything. Everything is going to have this DRM shit soon enough. | |
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 envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA |
envoid
Member
2005-Jun-2 2:46 pm
no longer innocent...before proven guilty. all it boils down to. along with intel's option of making money out of it... i hope amd doesn't follow up with it. | |
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 9143930615,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT |
DRM Will Eventually PrevailThe shift in the industry will flow in the direction of DRM, after all, it is in the best financial interests of all corporations involved. And the method by which they will force users into is is to simply code applications that won't run without it. Features you will want, will require the new apps. You'll be caught between using legacy apps and wanting the whiz-bang new features that require the new CPUs and DRM. Like I was forced to move to Win XP just to run Adobe's new applications. I gained a benefit--increased productivity--but at the cost of aggravation from the OS' constant prodding, as if R2-D2 were inside of my computer. The average public won't realize what's going on, and unless tens of thousands return the PCs for a refund because of this, nothing is going to stop the trend. We've already gone from serial numbers to activation. DRM in hardware is the logical next step. MS is right: they will finally make the Chinese pay for software. --
Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: »www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
'http://www.mwcomms.com/auctions.htm
'http://www.mwcomms.com
'http://www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
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 kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY |
kamm
Member
2005-Jun-2 3:26 pm
Where's my post?Hmmm. Where did my previous post go? | |
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Another poor decision..You have been very bad Intel.
Please go stand in the corner with AOL-Netscape...
We will let you know when your punishment is over. | |
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|  xpbxNo Compassion
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Errington, BC |
xpbx
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 6:02 pm
Re: Another poor decision..ya see, this torture is never gonna stop.
it just changes flavors.
DRM is teh suxx0rs. | |
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Damon85
Premium Member
join:2004-12-25
Cincinnati, OH |
Damon85
Premium Member
2005-Jun-2 4:24 pm
Interception?Software that accesses the DRM features of the processor? How long until there's software the sits between the DRM product and the processor, hides the DRM bits from the processor, and tells the software whatever it wants to hear? | |
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 Toymaster
Premium Member
join:2001-12-27
Flint, MI ·Xfinity
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DRM? Asia?I wonder if this DRM will be shipped to the Asian countries as well? And if so how long before it is hacked or bypassed. I wonder if this can be applied to the broadcast flag for HDTV that the broadcasters are trying to make mandatory as well with the transition to all HD airwave signals? Lets see: Patriot Act Broadcast flag DRM... does anyone not see a trend here? --
Join SETI Now! | |
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Re: DRM? Asia?Broadcast flag is dead! At least not everything that the government does is evil... | |
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| | Toymaster
Premium Member
join:2001-12-27
Flint, MI |
Re: DRM? Asia?How can u be so sure? They my try to give the FCC the authority in a massive spending or budget bill the needs passing --
Join SETI Now! | |
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Alternatives to Intel for home users?AMD? They belong to the same DRM-loving organization. Is it a matter of time until they announce the same DRM "features"?
Ultrasparc? Highly unlikely for the majority of home users. (though i do have an ultrasparc workstation under my desk. lol)
Anything else? Do I need to buy a Via-based comp at Walmart to avoid this DRM silliness?
And don't tell me about how DRM can be disabled. It can be disabled now but what about a year from now? Will some sneaky BIOS or software update make that feature mandatory?
--
My server has been up longer than your server. | |
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PowahPC
Anon
2005-Jun-2 4:33 pm
DRM?Could somebody explain to me what this DRM stuff would stop you from doing? So... if you want to rip one of your audio CDs to .mp3 or whatever, the application you use wouldn't let you do it if you were using a DRM supported app, and a DRM enabled BIOS? Wouldn't the consumers start crying foul? I mean, if people can't copy their .mp3s to their ipods and such, aren't they going to get angry? I've switched to the Mac in 2003, and haven't looked back at Windows or Intel. I will say that if Apple ever gets in bed with Intel, I don't know what I'd do... And an Apple + Intel machine could be coming...  | |
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 ylen131
join:2000-02-09
Canoga Park, CA |
goodI hope they release the cheap soon. Time to put pirating out of business | |
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 viperpa33sWhy Me?
Premium Member
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL |
What will be next?If Intel can do this, what is going to be next on the agenda? We can't just limit the scope to just copyrights. I believe since it will be at the hardware level, it will give the software makers a whole bunch of possibilities and not a lot of it will be a good thing for the computer user.
What I said is in no way defending a pirate. | |
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