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The Canadian DMCA
Industry tries to export controversial law Northward
They gave us Celine Dion, now we return the favor by giving them the DMCA? Canadian television is reporting that new DMCA-esque copyright laws will be proposed next week in Canada. The proposed laws offer new penalties for cracking copy protection, while also establishing a "notice-and-notice regime", which, like here in the States, allows the music industry to send legal threats to p2p users via their ISP.
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AbBaZaBbA
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Wildomar, CA
kudos:4

AbBaZaBbA

Premium Member

$$

it's gonna cost them an awful lot to buy all those politicans in canada since the CAD is awfully strong against the USD.
Damon85
Premium Member
join:2004-12-25
Cincinnati, OH

Damon85

Premium Member

Re: $$

The dollar is worth (a little) more than the CAD still, but the Canadian politicians could sell a bit higher if they aren't used to being purchased every 10 minutes or so...

buahaha
@ny325.fios.verizon.n

buahaha to AbBaZaBbA

Anon

to AbBaZaBbA
Yeah, but if its anything like the us coyright law.. it will be rife with loopholes! Its a relatively liberal government up north, so only the most agregious violations would probably be enforced...

n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

1 edit

n2jtx

Member

Taxes

I am sure that after this passes (love the "one party" rule just like we have here in the United States) I gather the tax on blank CD's, tapes, etc. will still be in place. I guess it means you will have "the right" to copy your DVD BUT it will be illegal to actually crack the code that allows you to do it. I hope Parliament gets its act together and scraps this. Canadians are smarter than to follow our lead on such a stupid piece of legislation.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

First thought that comes to mind...

To all the Americans who keep saying they will move to Canada:

Where you gonna move to now? Suckers!
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next!

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan

Premium Member

Re: First thought that comes to mind...

said by pnh102:

To all the Americans who keep saying they will move to Canada:

Where you gonna move to now? Suckers!
Don't matter just as long as they move
Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX

Talis

Member

Re: First thought that comes to mind...

.. and pretty small minds they are.

You "love it or leave it", "my way or the highway", "you're either with me or against me" types have my deepest condolences for having such small minds to believe there is only one way of living, one way of thinking, one way of being patriotic, or only one correct, inflexible, unchanging world-view. America has always been at its best when it has been a land of many voices. These kinds of exclusionary "if you don't like it, move" attitudes will only weaken us, not make us stronger. Grow some balls. It takes a strong man to live in a free state.

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan

Premium Member

Re: First thought that comes to mind...

said by Talis:

.. and pretty small minds they are.

You "love it or leave it", "my way or the highway", "you're either with me or against me" types have my deepest condolences for having such small minds to believe there is only one way of living, one way of thinking, one way of being patriotic, or only one correct, inflexible, unchanging world-view.
I agree.That seems to be the mantra of liberal democrats these days.
said by Talis:

America has always been at its best when it has been a land of many voices.
As long as it benifits everyone.Not a select few.
said by Talis:

These kinds of exclusionary "if you don't like it, move" attitudes will only weaken us, not make us stronger.
Strangely enough those words were said by the john Kerry supporters.If you can talk the talk,then walk the walk.NO MATTER if it was said from either party affliation.
said by Talis:

Grow some balls.
I have a good set of balls hanging. To both Talk the talk and then walk the walk.
said by Talis:

It takes a strong man to live in a free state.
I absolutely believe that.Then we have have witnessed the size of the balls or rather lack of then.When they first
had a hissy fit and spouted of there were moving.People
want to post they are leaving.Then grow a set of F'n balls
and F'n move then.Maybe grow an even bigger set and stay Dammit.So we can get something done.

Advoc8
@nftmyr01.fl.comcast.

Advoc8

Anon

Re: First thought that comes to mind...

>I agree.That seems to be the mantra of liberal democrats these days.

I apologize for the misspeaking of this individual. He seems blissfully unaware (as are most christians) that such mantras are now, and have always been the sole property (registered trademark i do believe) of the conservative republicans. It is a simple matter to see that conservative = republican and conservative = keeping things the same. Following that, you can see that keeping things the same = not wanting to change and not wanting to change = trying to remove things that would necessitate change, like people who don't agree with you. Again, on behalf of this person, I apologize.
modan
join:2003-09-12
canada

modan

Member

As expected

Just as I said, it was only a matter of time before they buy off the Canadian politicians as well.

CPM
Broadband, DSL, cable
join:2001-08-24
Brooklyn, NY

CPM

Member

Celine Dion

And they gave us loverboy and other singers are groups. Oh and the most of all. this.

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan

Premium Member

Re: Celine Dion

said by CPM:

And they gave us loverboy and other singers are groups. Oh and the most of all. this.
So thats what Canadien Politicians look like.? I have to ask Conan O'brien. If this person and Orrin Hatch got together and had a child.What would it look like.In his next comedy sketch

mrherzog
join:2001-05-06
Calgary, AB

mrherzog

Member

Not worried

So long as I pay a levy on my blank media, then I'll continue to download as much as I want....uploading is another story..nudge nudge wink wink say no more know what I mean know what I mean.
Given Shaw's stand on this....I don't think I'll be seeing a letter anytime soon....but then again...I only download..nudge nudge.
In any event...I'll be sure to warn my mother that my dead grandmother is about to get a cease and desist order from some stuffy law firm about her downloading habits.

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan

Premium Member

Re: Not worried

We pay the same levy on blank cd's here as well.One has no say in the matter.It's already included into the price.BTW tell your dead grandmother to be careful.Since she will not talk in the **AA's courtroom.She will be found guilty on all charges.:D

Brownbay
Premium Member
join:2005-03-13
North York, ON

Brownbay to mrherzog

Premium Member

to mrherzog
I don't think there is any levy on blank media or mp3 players/recorders etc...

There once was... but quite a few people threw a bit fit and it was taken off. They way I found out was when i went to Best Buy to buy some blanks and an mp3 player... I asked the cashier if there was any "music tax" and she said no. I checked the bill as well and only PST/GST were charged. BUT... it's quite possible that this 'music tax' is built into the price.

Can anyone confirm is there actually still is a 'music tax/levy' in place?

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan

Premium Member

Re: Not worried

said by Brownbay:

I don't think there is any levy on blank media or mp3 players/recorders etc...

There once was... but quite a few people threw a bit fit and it was taken off. They way I found out was when i went to Best Buy to buy some blanks and an mp3 player... I asked the cashier if there was any "music tax" and she said no. I checked the bill as well and only PST/GST were charged. BUT... it's quite possible that this 'music tax' is built into the price.

Can anyone confirm is there actually still is a 'music tax/levy' in place?
»www.webmasterworld.com/f ··· 1344.htm

»emperor.tidbits.com/TidB ··· Talk/370

About DRM and copying

At 7:42 AM -0800 3/9/05, Kirk wrote:
>This says that when I buy a 60 GB iPod, I pay EUR 23.92 (incl. VAT) as a tax
>that is collected by SORECOP, some sort of organization like the ASCAP that
>distributes money to artists. Theoretically...

At 12:23 PM -0800 3/11/05, Geoff wrote:
>But also, I go through a fair bit of media, including a few hard
>drives (for network backups) and a lot of blank CD-R and DVD media.

I'm not sure if this applies to DVD media but in the US music CD-R
media (but not Data CD-R media. (yes I know its the same thing, but
look at the labeling next time.) as well as CD burners carry a
licence fee/tax for the same purpose, that goes to the artists.

I'm not sure if this applies to DVD media but in the US music CD-R
>media (but not Data CD-R media. (yes I know its the same thing, but
>look at the labeling next time.) as well as CD burners carry a
>licence fee/tax for the same purpose, that goes to the artists.

Only a (tiny) portion goes to the artist. The majority is supposed to
go to the "rights holders," who are usually not the artists, if it's
distributed at all. Here's the deal as I understand it:

In the US, these "license fee/tax" are royalty funds which are
supposed to be paid by the manufacturers of digital audio recording
gear and media (tapes, CDs, DVDs, anything which can store audio).
The system was set up under the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992.

In reality, these fees are not paid by the manufacturers, but by
consumers, and now I'll just set the ethics and implications of that
aside (shove shove thump!) as a different topic.

Anyway. These royalties, once collected, are divided into two funds.
A third of the money goes to the Music Works Fund, and two-third goes
to the Sound Recordings Fund.

The bigger Sound Recording Fund is for "interested copyright
parties," which theoretically means the artists and the
rights-holders. But the breakdown is amusing. About 2.6 percent goes
in an escrow account jointly managed by the AFM (American Federation
of Musicians, e.g. "The Musicians' Union") and "copyright parties"
for distribution to "non-featured" musicians. Another 1.3 percent
goes into an escrow managed by "copyright parties" and AFTRA
(American Federation of Television and Radio Artists) for
non-featured vocalists. The remainder goes 60 percent to rights
owners and 40 percent to featured artists.

The smaller Musical Works fund is subdivided into a Publishers
subfund and a Writers subfund.

"Interested copyright parties" are supposed to voluntarily work out
how these funds get distributed within the groups, but the reality is
that performance rights organizations like ASCAP and BMI rep most of
the artists clamoring after the Musical Works fund, and big media
conglomerates rep themselves or proxy through groups like the RIAA.
Disputes are handled before a Copyright Arbitration Royalty Panel,
which doles things out according to how the recordings were
distributed, which means broadcast and sales.

And there's the catch: the data used in the arbitration process -
broadcast performance and sales - are not collected by disinterested
objective third parties. Instead, they're collected and/or published
only by polling organizations and/or distributors, who have financial
interests in reporting these numbers in different ways. These numbers
are the subject of much controversy, rarely add up, and seemingly
bear little resemblance to any reality with which any living person
is familiar. Without diving in, I'll just note artists who own their
own copyrights seem to have remarkably few metered performances,
while artists who've signed away everything to giant media
conglomerates are astonishingly popular. And the way industry
accounting works, in many cases any money due to the artist goes
straight to the label's pockets anyway to pay off "label debt" owed
by the artist.

Artists do not have to have BMI or ASCAP (or whatever) represent them
at the Copyright Arbitration Royalty Panel: they can represent
themselves or appoint some other party to represent them. However, if
you don't represent yourself or appoint someone, you're SOL.

I do know artists who've received money via these mechanisms, and,
no, they could not use the funds to buy a cup of coffee. I haven't
personally seen a penny.Yes Canada pays Either a duty tax or a vat tax as well.

mattei
Moderated, now muzzled
join:2001-03-19
Canada

mattei

Member

Reading is ok but books are illegal

Does anyone have a link or source for the actual draft legislation?

Oh, American friends: sorry about Celine.

99664227
Heavily MODerated
Premium Member
join:2002-11-21
USA

99664227

Premium Member

Re: Reading is ok but books are illegal

said by mattei:

Oh, American friends: sorry about Celine.
How about Jim Carey, and Bare naked Ladies?
--
Plan your trade and trade your plan.
kpatz
MY HEAD A SPLODE
Premium Member
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH

kpatz

Premium Member

What do bad laws and viruses have in common?

What do bad laws and viruses have in common?

No one wants them, but they just keep on spreading due to the actions of idiots.
--
SMTP: Spam and Malware Transfer Protocol. Also used on rare occasion to transmit e-mail messages.

LordMalak
join:2003-07-02
Brazil

LordMalak

Member

Fair swap.

They gave us Celine Dion, now we return the favor by giving them the DMCA?
Good, now we're even...
avin0
Harbinger of Doom
join:2005-02-04
Brampton, ON

avin0

Member

D:

CANADA GAVE YOU PAMELA ANDERSON DAMMIT

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121

Premium Member

Re: D:

said by avin0:

CANADA GAVE YOU PAMELA ANDERSON DAMMIT
Kind of funny that this was posted right below the joke about viruses...
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Redmond, OR
·Consolidated Sma..

kd6cae

Member

is there anything we can do legally anymore?

What is it with the **AA's and there obsession with making it illegal to copy something? I'm sick of all the crap laws being put in to place, preventing me from basically doing anything relating to copying something even for my own personal use! I never knew backing up purchased CD's in case they should get lost or the like was such an awful thing! The sad part is, these jerks are passing these laws left and right and it seems there's nothing we the consumer can do about it. To put it simply it appears we're screwed! Pretty soon backing up your computer data no matter what it is will be illegal, after all you're copying it off elsewhere to back it up and we just can't have that. The even sadder part is I've browsed the rIAA site a while back and could find nothing on their site that indicates whether or not officially you can copy stuff for personal use, i.e. to back up your music collection. Yes obviously folks will put stuff on the net, but that's just a fact of life, and folks wanting to copy stuff for their own personal nonfinancial purposes should not be punished for excersising their right to fair use! I still say that if we had services like Itunes or Napster or the like, but without DRM, than we'd have a perfect solution. DRM pretty much throws out any possibility of backing up the content! Oh sure the file's there on the computer, but why bother having the file there when you put in on another computer, you can't even play the damn thing so you have basically 3 or 5 megs or space wasted on your drive, and that's for 1 track! It's sick, and I hope somehow someday we can overturn these rediculous antiConsumer idiotic laws!

perry-air
@verizon.net

perry-air

Anon

Re: is there anything we can do legally anymore?

said by "kd6cae":
Pretty soon backing up your computer data no matter what it is will be illegal, after all you're copying it off elsewhere to back it up and we just can't have that.
Given soon-to-be-released DRM-encumbered systems, assuming that the end-user does NOT hold the "keys" - then what you say is likely to be true.

The only recourse, will likely be if the sellers of those "DRM keys", are willing to hold your "purchase" (really, lease of virtually nothing) record for you, which likely will require giving them your CC number, or allowing them to track your every use of "their" media.

Not to mention the possibility of "system reserved areas" on your recordable media, such as your HD, set up in a way that only the "secure DRM facilities" can access - you're locked out of a portion of your own computer. Clearly, if you can't access it, you can't back it up either. Eventually, companies will get wise to the possibility that they can place users onto an ever-more-rapid "forced upgrade treadmill", and disallow the escrow/storage/backup of any of that "DRM key" material, forcing you to re-buy again and again, just to "keep" the things that you supposedly already "own" (even though this scheme ensures that the end-user never, ever, actually owns anything at all - they're selling you air - just like in the movie 'SpaceBalls').

ottawa-please-dont-b

Anon

Media Tax

Canada, unlike the US of A has a media tax on every single blank cd, on every single minidisk, on every single iPod or MP3 player, they're even proposing to tax every hard drive, regardless of where it's used (after all, they could store illegal music)

Why don't we simply ban internet access? It's clear that the internet is corrupt and useless, why would we want it again.

I'm going to mass voicemail every MP. Make sure they know that you won't elect them if they pass this kind of crap. We pay to download, in the form of the media taxes on all media, including stuff we use for backups and our own works. If this new law passes, they better repeal the media tax, otherwise, our goverment is double screwed up (not that it isn't already)

vdiv
Premium Member
join:2002-03-23
Reston, VA

vdiv

Premium Member

Re: Media Tax

What about online purchases, can you guys, freezing your ....s up there buy stuff from US based retailers, or take a road trip across the "border"?

Tell you what, we'll trade you blank CDs for prescription drugs, that's what NAFTA is for

Maybe the Canadian Gov't should consider media tax on blank paper (including TP) as it also might be used to copy music

myhoes
Michael Extreme User
Premium Member
join:2003-10-05
Laval, QC

myhoes to ottawa-please-dont-b

Premium Member

to ottawa-please-dont-b
said by ottawa-please-dont-b:

Why don't we simply ban internet access? It's clear that the internet is corrupt and useless, why would we want it again.
Lets Ban Paper too Since it can be used to copy Out of Copyrighted Books and public library's also !!!!
--
And that my friends is what they say is..That!

timetogetrealfool
@taylor01.mi.comcast.

timetogetrealfool

Anon

Time to GET REAL folks...

Ain't no one in the civilized World that is gonna stand by and allow Pirates to steal copyright protected works be it music, software, movies or whatever.

You wanna steal, fine, then there is a reserved room with your name on it at the Iron Bar Hotel.

DENIAL does not change reality so it's time to GET REAL.

BIGMIKE
Q
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Blythe, CA
·Suddenlink

BIGMIKE

Premium Member

Re: Time to GET REAL folks...

said by timetogetrealfool:

Ain't no one in the civilized World that is gonna stand by and allow Pirates to steal copyright protected works be it music, software, movies or whatever.

You wanna steal, fine, then there is a reserved room with your name on it at the Iron Bar Hotel.

DENIAL does not change reality so it's time to GET REAL.
»www.unregistered.org/

pcscdma
hi
Premium Member
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA

pcscdma

Premium Member

Re: Time to GET REAL folks...

I have no life?
--
Posting .sig

alex4life
Alex4life
Premium Member
join:2001-06-22
Delta, BC

alex4life to timetogetrealfool

Premium Member

to timetogetrealfool
said by timetogetrealfool:

Ain't no one in the civilized World that is gonna stand by and allow Pirates to steal copyright protected works be it music, software, movies or whatever.
If there's no law in Canada that says downloading music is illegal, then how am I in the wrong?
--
"For in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's future, and we are all mortal." - John F. Kennedy

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four to timetogetrealfool

Premium Member

to timetogetrealfool
And there's a room reserved for troll posts of your
type. It's called Post Jail. And I'm sending you there
now, Taylor troll. See that 'hey mods' link at the
bottom? This topic will be offline before too much
longer.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1

BonezX

Premium Member

Re: Time to GET REAL folks...

they haven't done anything with him yet, not likely they ever will.

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan to timetogetrealfool

Premium Member

to timetogetrealfool
said by timetogetrealfool:

Ain't no one in the civilized World that is gonna stand by and allow Pirates to steal copyright protected works be it music, software, movies or whatever.

You wanna steal, fine, then there is a reserved room with your name on it at the Iron Bar Hotel.

DENIAL does not change reality so it's time to GET REAL.
Hey as long as they have a T-1 or faster connection.Plenty of blank cdr's and dvd's.PC MUST have a dvd rewriter.State of the art latest computer.Access to the web.It'll be just like home in a few years anyway.One the Patroit Act 2 passes.

BTW: Denial is a river FYI

stealing IS bad
@verizon.net

stealing IS bad to timetogetrealfool

Anon

to timetogetrealfool
quote:
You wanna steal, fine, then there is a reserved room with your name on it at the Iron Bar Hotel.
Hello taylor01. Do you realize that coercively-forced "purchases", are JUST AS MUCH "STEALING", as copyright infringement? When are these companies' executives going to see jail time for their un-ethical and in some cases illegal marketing schemes or manipulations of the markets and laws themselves?
Methadras
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

Methadras

Member

my my...

isn't canada a little bit on the digitally fascist side i see...?

JammerMan79
VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10

JammerMan79

VIP

Re: my my...

huh?
This is just starting in Canada now and it's only because our courts are sane and have denied all the claims by the record industries. Can you say the same about the american system?
Methadras
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

Methadras

Member

Re: my my...

said by JammerMan79:

huh?
This is just starting in Canada now and it's only because our courts are sane and have denied all the claims by the record industries. Can you say the same about the american system?
of course not...? know why...? one word: lawyers...

your court system may be sane, but that is a perception that you seem to hold in esteem... here in the good ole' USA we are in complete agreement that our court system and justice system are screwed almost to the point beyond repair... but that is not to say that the canadian court system isn't as wacky when it comes to other things besides your version of the dmca... i realize that you have your CBA to deal with, but remember, eventually many of those CBA lawyers end up becoming your judges too...

either way, i'll take the american system of justice over any other any day of the week...
canadiancree
Crusin in the boonies
join:2004-02-10
Picton, ON

canadiancree

Member

Good to see....

They're taking care of important issues, over such things as medicare, keeping the country together, and you know, boring useless crap like that. The fiberals seem to have a nose for payoffs (then agian, what politican doesnt)
modan
join:2003-09-12
canada

modan

Member

Re: Good to see....

Who cares if the federal govt wastes tax payers' money? Who cares if medicare goes to hell? Who cares if QC gets separated? The most important thing is not to let the corporations be forced to price their cds and dvds reasonably!!

Annony name
@247.xx.45.Dial1.Tamp

Annony name

Anon

Amerika

Amerika........Love it or wait for mexico to get here. You don't have to move anymore.


How about ..