 | | Desperation? Seems like it. If theres only 38mbps between 100 users, how can Cox offer 15mbps to everyone? Smells like a stall tactic. | |
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 | | | Re: Desperation? said by tbaker397:Seems like it. If theres only 38mbps between 100 users, how can Cox offer 15mbps to everyone? Smells like a stall tactic. ALL providers oversell their bandwidth. They always have.
Do you think Verizon has enough Internet bandwidth to cover all of its 15 and 30meg customers?
If providers didn't oversell bandwidth, your connection wouldn't be cheap.
Find me a provider that has a 1:1 Internet bandwidth to customer bandwidth ratio. Heck, there probably isn't a provider that has a 1:1 ratio on their own backbone, it would be economic suicide. | |
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| | | | Re: Desperation? yes verizon does have enough bandwidth to offer 15 mbs to 30 mbs, fios is a dedicated fiber line, bandwidth over fiber is almost unstoppable, the only things that keep fiber speeds low is the hardware at the sending and receiving end. then with encryption and compression verizon could maintain these speeds across their whole network. not only that but they have stated if your speeds drop below 14. something for the 15mb tier they will send a tech to your home to fix it | |
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| | | | | Re: Desperation? I don't think you understand what is meant by "Internet bandwidth."
Verizon just can't magically make Internet bandwidth by running fiber. Their Internet bandwidth has nothing to do with FIOS installs.
Verizon must peer with major providers, they must keep these external circuits big enough to support the users behind them. The Internet doesn't just magically come to them, they have a backbone that must be maintained that has nothing to do with FIOS specifically.
And FIOS is not a dedicated fiber line, you're not connected directly to the Internet with all bandwidth dedicated to you. It's a 622mbit circuit that is shared between 32 homes they say. Reasonable, but NOT dedicated.
I'd love to see a Verizon tech come to my house and fix a drop in available bandwidth FROM my house, that would be a sight to see.
Encryption and compression have NOTHING to do with maintaining speeds. Encryption and compression require TIME and COMPUTING power to DECRYPT and UNCOMPRESS the data. How exactly would that keep speeds up? No major provider encrypts and compresses customer traffic, unless someone is paying for that special service. But most do it for themselves, out of security concerns. | |
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|  Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2
1 edit | Finally... The news guy gets it correct... last time the 15mbps Cox article was put up I posted mbps/user dillemma and got flamed for it.
see:
»Race is already WON
Nodes *can* have more capcacity, but most systems currently do not.
My favorite part:
Verizon FIOS on the other hand currently has 622mbps for up to 32 houses with their current BPON fiber technology. In a year they are slated to switch to GPON which has 2.4 Gbps downstream, 1.2 Gbps upstream, to each cluster of up to 32 homes. | |
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| | | Re: Desperation? It seems fishy to me... they can give 15mbit service to SOME people who croan about going to verizon... an then they have to cheat people who should be getting 5-6mbit to 3.8?? I'd switch to Verizon and tell them to go to hell, get directv or dish network! Screw 'EM! Its your money! And make sure 100 of your closest friends switch also, and 100 of their friends, etc! | |
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| | | | Re: Desperation? the math on that is 38/100=.38....not 3.8, it's worse than you think. the pain here is, people are arguing hype/marketing vs. actual bandwidth per user at any given time. Until DOCSIS 3, Cox cannot handle the promise of the hype, they can barely handle upgrading their DNS without hosing a couple thousand people for 15 mins or more. | |
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| bibbit
join:2004-02-28
Cumberland, RI | Just got off the phone with a Cox tech and was told they are rewiring areas like mine (in RI) and that the entire state will have 15mbps service by end of summer. Some parts of the state already have it available. It's about $15 a month more. I was also told that people with 5mbps service would be bumped to 2mbps upload without any notice or added cost once the upgrade is completed. The 15mbps service will also be 2mpbs upload. | |
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 jarablueAlways be true to yourself
join:2001-06-11
Boxborough, MA | 38mbps between 100 users??? Can you say sucka me bandwitdhy. Guess ping times will be shot to hell with that. | |
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| | | Re: 38mbps between 100 users??? That's funny, a single home on FIOS can run 2.5x what COX's entire node can handle. Nice, I am glad to see we are really advancing in technology which is becoming cheaper and cheaper to deploy. | |
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| |  zoom3148SupermanPremium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA | Re: 38mbps between 100 users??? Sound more like COX Propaganda to Me.:D | |
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| | | | | Re: 38mbps between 100 users??? u know it cox cable companies will do any thing now...they sure are scared | |
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| |  DrTCPYours trulyPremium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX
1 edit | said by dsanders16:That's funny, a single home on FIOS can run 2.5x what COX's entire node can handle. Nice, I am glad to see we are really advancing in technology which is becoming cheaper and cheaper to deploy. A CMTS can have multiple upstream and downstream cards. Typically the 1 downstream is paired with 4 upstream channels. So, capacity can be increased without restructuring much. In other words, 38Mbps (40Mbps raw) is not the node capacity as quoted. There is much more upscaling capability based on load on the CMTS.
Still, companies oversell their capacity since not all customers are using all the bandwidth all times. Verizon needs a lot more bandwdith to sell TV service. Since cable company has dedicated TV channels, they can get away easily by overselling the data capacity. | |
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 oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | DOCSIS 3? Have they deployed DOCSIS 2.
Seems like the 'until they deploy' theme is a popular one in the cable industry. | |
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|  fegulPremium
join:2004-08-23
united state | Re: DOCSIS 3? Agreed, they are just trying to attract customers with this ploy until they can beef up their infrastructure to handle it all.
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|Networking Help|My Blog| | |
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|  imrfPremium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI | said by oliphant:Seems like the 'until they deploy' theme is a popular one in the cable industry. They learned it from the best, the telcos. | |
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| DrTCPYours trulyPremium,ExMod 1999-04
join:1999-11-09
Round Rock, TX | said by oliphant:Have they deployed DOCSIS 2. Seems like the 'until they deploy' theme is a popular one in the cable industry. Is there a DOCSIS 3 standard at all. It is a work in progress yet! | |
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oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
2 edits | 38mbps per 100...EASY With capping the crap out of their users. They've already established a fairly harsh TOS/AUP...they need only start the mailing of nastygrams if 38mbps doesn't cut the mustard. Works for Comcrap. | |
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| | | Re: 38mbps per 100...EASY Think I'll start a topic to see if anyone has gotten "the letter" from Comcast lately. It would be kinda dumb to keep referencing an old practice. | |
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| | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: 38mbps per 100...EASY Qumahlin  claims they have since the upgrades. I guess it depends on what you consider lately. To me an old practice would be something done 2 years ago, not 4 months. | |
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 scoobyPremium
join:2001-05-01
Schaumburg, IL
kudos:1
 ·Comcast Workplace
 ·Future Nine Corp..
| oversubscription Its all about overselling. The chances of 3 or 4 of those 100 users downloading at the same time is slim and even if they are the other side has to support 15mbps. Those numbers fit in to the standard 40-50:1 over subscription that cable and dsl providers use. | |
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| | Fear the Fios Fios is really starting to worry cableco's now.The Exec's that must compete with fios must have looked into a crystal ball,and seen their worst nightmare come to life.I also believe they don't like the future bottom line for themselves.I myself may never get Fios,but it sure will be fun watching the repercussions of fios.Users will be surfing the net in lil four cylinder cars.When fios takes the wraps off a L-88 corvette.  | |
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|  TimePremium
join:2003-07-05
·Cox HSI
| Re: Fear the Fios said by guitarzan:Fios is really starting to worry cableco's now.The Exec's that must compete with fios must have looked into a crystal ball,and seen their worst nightmare come to life.I also believe they don't like the future bottom line for themselves.I myself may never get Fios,but it sure will be fun watching the repercussions of fios.Users will be surfing the net in lil four cylinder cars.When fios takes the wraps off a L-88 corvette. Incase you didn't know, Cable Co have fiber to every node, if they wanted to deploy their own FTTH, all they would have to do is replaced the last-mile cable. A "Brand-X" Cable Company in Atlanta and Florida is testing out this system right now.
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First rule of fiber optics: you do not talk about fiber optics | |
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1 edit | Re: Fear the Fios said by Time:said by guitarzan:Fios is really starting to worry cableco's now.The Exec's that must compete with fios must have looked into a crystal ball,and seen their worst nightmare come to life.I also believe they don't like the future bottom line for themselves.I myself may never get Fios,but it sure will be fun watching the repercussions of fios.Users will be surfing the net in lil four cylinder cars.When fios takes the wraps off a L-88 corvette. Incase you didn't know, Cable Co have fiber to every node, if they wanted to deploy their own FTTH, all they would have to do is replaced the last-mile cable. A "Brand-X" Cable Company in Atlanta and Florida is testing out this system right now. That is true I do not how the cable co's deploy their HSI other than it being coaxial wiring.Were it not for the way fios is being deployed.Betcha dollars to do-nuts.Current users of HSI would not see those tests you mention.Why in fios areas being lit do Cable Co's suddenly have an abundance of speed.? Proves they ARE worried.
A lot of users and "speed freaks".Will jump ship at the drop of a hat.I certainly would,the reasoning being.That were it not for fios becoming reality.The cable co's would offer the same speed for years with no change in sight.
To be fair most tele co's would follow the same pattern.I see fios giving tele co's and cable co's the choice.(lead,follow or get left technologcially left behind).The future is happening now,little by little.Not waking up one morning,then suddenly we have "George Jetson" as a neighbor.That would be cool though.
Even as you say they(have fiber to every node, if they wanted to deploy their own FTTH, all they would have to do is replace the last-mile cable).They could have been "one up" on Verizon,since it existed at the node.As for Conducting trials and tests NOW proves what I said is a valid statement.?
I really wish ALL of AMERICA gets wired with fiber.I feel anything less is going the route of the dinosaur. | |
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| | | | | Re: Fear the Fios Cox is desparate. there is no way they can beat fiber to the prem. the best they can do is fiber to the curb. for those that don't know, that means there is still a stretch of copper lines they have to squeeze their bandwidth thru.
fiber lines are much cheaper to maintain, and have a much higher bandwidth capacity. they will be allowing ALL customers to have consistantly over 100meg download speeds in the next couple years. Try doing that on copper. Any stretch of copper at all will cause leakage and signal loss. put it this way, the current lines out there are already super-saturated. try squeezing even more electric signals thru that, and you get even more signal loss. try to pull down consistant speeds that way. its not possible. I challenge all of you copper fanatics to prove that your cable companies will still be competing when FiOS surpasses 50 meg standard. and remember, each FiOS customer has a DEDICATED fiber line to their house, while every cable customer has to share with everyone else. | |
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| | | | Incase you didn't know, Cable Co have fiber to every node, if they wanted to deploy thei
*r own FTTH, all they would have to do is replaced the last-mile cable. A "Brand-X" Cable C
*ompany in Atlanta and Florida is testing out this system right now.
(*) WARNING 1 long line(s) split
Yeah. because its so easy to replace the last mile. Incase you dont know that usually is the most expensive part of the deployment. And also cable cos have spent billions upgrading their networks, and it would cost billions more to take it the last mile. | |
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| | Time to Follow up I need to run a speed test when I get home to see if I have my 15Mbps connection yet. I ordered it about a week ago.
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4 More years and we won't have a country. | |
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| | techies know fios is better the problem is the non-techies. Any techie with a choice between cox 15mbps and vz 15mbps would choose fios because of pings, reliability, oversubscription etc... However vz can't become profitable based soley on techies and early adopters. It's sad marketing has the potential to damage a far superior product. | |
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| | | Re: techies know fios is better said by aaron12345:the problem is the non-techies. Any techie with a choice between cox 15mbps and vz 15mbps would choose fios because of pings, reliability, oversubscription etc... However vz can't become profitable based soley on techies and early adopters. It's sad marketing has the potential to damage a far superior product. Who cares if FIOS is better. The human brain can't perceive the speed difference between a web page rendered at 15 mbs and 10 mbs (all things being equal). Therefore, FIOS will have to compete on price not just speed. Besides cable is capable of having 100 mbs down and up. FIOS will have to give speeds over 500 megabits/sec to have a clear advantage over cable, and we will not be seeing that kind of speed in a decade. Cable companies are not worried about FIOS speed. They are worried about the 800 pound gorilla (Verizon) offering VOIP, TV programming and fast Internet in a package. That's were the real money is these days and cable companies have to protect their market. | |
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| | gh4456Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-07
Beverly Hills, CA | Re: techies know fios is better I agree, at these speeds, there are going to be other factors in play:
1- Price
2- Reliability
3- Tech Support / Customer Service
4- Ping Times
5- Ability to Run Servers
There is no real need at this time for 15mbs connections. Until other services are offered over the internet (VOD, TV) 99% of the users would rather pay $20 for a 3mbs connection than $50 for 100mbs connection. | |
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 TsumePremium
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN | FioS can do no wrong Title says it all eh. | |
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 ArchonXD40Docsis 3.0
join:2003-02-24
Bossier City, LA | :D 15000/2000 for only $15 more a month. drewls...:p
I hope (TWC)Roadrunner will do the same.
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More upload please! | |
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 HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2
·Comcast
1 edit | First hand knowledge.... The Verizon techs are working at a very fast pace putting in FIOS in North Kingston and Warwick. Cox has always had a very nice hold on the broadband area there. Verizon's DSL service hasn't done that well. Now Cox is trying to keep folks from jumping over to FIOS.
Rhode Island is a Verizon State. By that I mean Verizon has one of the 3 FIOS call centers in the USA. Verizon, the IBEW, and the State Government are always talking about something. It doesn't hurt Verizon that the Business Manager of the Verizon Technician's Union (IBEW 2323) in Rhode Island is also the chairman of the Rhode Island Board of Examination and Licensing of Telecommunications System Contractors, Technicians and Installers.
Verizon is going through the State legislature to get a State wide franchise for the FIOS television service. | |
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| |  Fios Aint Even Coming to My Town
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Reviews:
·Midcontinent Com..
1 edit | FIOS is cheaper than cable at least in my city roadrunner is $45 for 5000/384 and verizon FIOS will be $40 for 5000/2000
you tell me which is cheaper... faster... and more reliable. i think that we all know the answer
if we had COX i am sure the same would be true. vz costing $50 for 15000/2000. Cox costing ?? i would guess around the same price but probably with slower speeds(actual throughput, and probably upload being slower too). and to have the latest technology available out there right now. what would u choose. i know its FIOS if you do say otherwise your need to think again. | |
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| | | Re: FIOS is cheaper than cable My point exactly. Ping times, reliablity, consistent speeds, no specific usage limits in TOS (standard legal stuff still there of course), no record of throttling or capping even for servers are all strengths to verizon. Anyone that understands the tech can see that. However for fios to be profitable verizon needs to get the average Joe to buy fios, and that is where the cable companies, "same speeed, no digging" adds hurt verizon. | |
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| | Get ready for dial up speeds..... you get 2 pigs in your neighborhood, and will wish you were on dial up. Bumping up the cap may be the final nail in their coffin. Just my opinion. Hell on my system 1 torrent user will destroy the experience for 300 others. Thank god for QoS. | |
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| Rob850
join:2003-04-11
Mary Esther, FL | Re: Get ready for dial up speeds..... Not really. If you have problems just give them a call or private one of the tier 2 volunteers in the cox forums.
Hopefully Gulfcoast will be next in the upgrades.
-Rob
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»rob.luniac.com/w0kie | |
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| | Yup.... I've heard it coming down the pipe. The new DOCSIS standards are really helping Cox be competive.
Expect this speed upgrade to roll out to all Cox markets over time.  | |
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|  bigfitchPremium
join:2005-06-01
Murrayville, IL | Re: Yup.... Most people who live in the city have so much more bandwith then they actualy can utilize or even toutch.
Try having a connection that is Wireless 512kb/s / 512kb/s.
15 Megs, Dont make me cry for it  | |
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thornnnn
join:2002-02-14
North Kingstown, RI | fios verizon and cox 1. cox is fast enough i only have issues with their aup and latency and how they "conducted tests" that caused degraded service for years. and their customer service.
2. where is verison.. i'm in NK and have been waiting for years for a cox alternative?
3. i wont forget past customer service. cox loses that battle. I walked away from cox cable for dish tv and have never regretted it. dish tv is an example of how something works right. where cox was an example of a monopoly that couldnt give 2 cents about customer satisfaction.. (till verizon showed up)
4 is verison fios going to have a no *personal/private* server policy too? myself in NK and my son in Warwick, neither of us can listen to external connections.. on any port. (no i dont file share, i wanna host a game with my kids and talk to them on teamspeak)
regardless, even if fios is more expensive, that's the way i'm going.. i ran out of any patience for cox a long time ago. even tho cox is relativly stable now i cant forget the years it wasnt or their horrible customer service (quote the cox rep* "you need to reinstall windows on all your lan computers" unquote the cox rep *cus their routers were dropping packets)( and the routers were dropping packets cus they were playing withe their network.. day in .. day out.. constantly.. then denying there was a problem cus 1 ping could get thru.
where are you verison.. when's NK RI going to be done.. have you even started? how many people are suscribed now in NK compaired to target goal? will there be complete coverage? whats the plan verizon.. i hear rumors but see nothing solid.. just a few posts here and there of hearsay... what's verison/fios thread in these forums? | |
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