page: 1 · 2  |
 chesney09
Premium
join:2004-07-26
Redford, MI
clubs: | Typical... Someday.. people will start fighting for the these companies for services that they are paying for.
How on earth can they market "unlimited", when it isn't?!?! | |
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timeshadow
join:2002-08-25
Tucson, AZ
1 edit | Re: Typical... That's why I use Lingo, They Market an Unlimited plan that gives you 43,200 minutes per month. That is truly unlimited. I dont understand why people say unlimited and then cap it. | |
| | | Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Re: Typical... quote:
They Market an Unlimited plan that gives you 43,200 minutes per month. That is truly unlimited.
What a rip-off. What about the other 1,440 minutes in a 31-day month? That makes you go a WHOLE DAY without service.  | |
| | | 
Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
| said by timeshadow  :That's why I use Lingo, They Market an Unlimited plan that gives you 43,200 minutes per month. That is truly unlimited. I dont understand why people say unlimited and then cap it. Unlimited means unlimited. Period. Even at 43,200 minutes per month, some months have 31 days. Now I'm not saying their limit is unreasonable, but its a limit, and therefore not UNlimited.
5000 minutes per month though...thats a joke. Another case of corporate america dictating what "normal life" means. I set a lady up with VoIP several months ago so she could save on her long distance. She has 6 kids and 19 grandkids she likes to talk to. Add to that any number of other family members and friends (she's old, can't drive, and lives hours from everyone). 5000 minutes per month for her is normal AND within reason, as she is a resident using her residential UNlimited service.
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AMD X2 4400+/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler | |
| | | | MikeVx
join:2005-04-02
Southgate, MI
| Re: Typical... said by Camelot One :said by timeshadow :That's why I use Lingo, They Market an Unlimited plan that gives you 43,200 minutes per month. That is truly unlimited. I dont understand why people say unlimited and then cap it. Unlimited means unlimited. Period. Even at 43,200 minutes per month, some months have 31 days. Now I'm not saying their limit is unreasonable, but its a limit, and therefore not UNlimited. Well, a little math gives me 44,640 minutes in a 31 day month. Usually my plan minutes on Lingo list 45,000 minutes. For some reason my minutes used at the moment shows 23,400, and my remaining shows 2,676,600. Methinks the system has a fault.
One thing to remember, as far as I know, there is no accounting software for phone systems that does not bill by the minute. So-called unlimited plans simply set a rate class with an impractical to reach number of minutes with a per-minute charge of zero, which is scrupulously tracked and billed. | |
| | | | | icenyne
join:2005-08-08
Austin, TX
1 edit | Re: Typical... said by MikeVx :Well, a little math gives me 44,640 minutes in a 31 day month. Usually my plan minutes on Lingo list 45,000 minutes. For some reason my minutes used at the moment shows 23,400, and my remaining shows 2,676,600. Methinks the system has a fault. Lingo's usage numbers are in seconds. There are 2,678,400 seconds in a 31 day month. | |
| | | | | | MikeVx
join:2005-04-02
Southgate, MI
| Re: Typical... Hmmm....Well, the numbers work out. I wonder why they changed from minutes to seconds? The calls are still listed in minutes, and even giving the large numbers on the current details page, the page still says minutes rather than seconds. Somebody must have mis-typed a translation formula somewhere. Still, the service continues to work. | |
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rideboarder
welcome to the social
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Snohomish, WA
clubs: | Re: Typical... at least verizon states the limit, unlike comcast. | |
| | | | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Typical... I have to agree with you there...
Its similar to cell phone plans - 5000 Night and weekend is just that, not unlimited. I think that consumers rights groups have to help set a law or policy about the use of the term 'unlimited' in advertising due to its deceitful nature. | |
| | | | | jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY
| Re: Typical... Well, I don't think there needs to be a new law, just enforcement of the old laws.
IIRC the reason CHEEZ WHIZ or whatever that canned chedder like stuff is that is pressurized isn't called Cheese Whiz is because legally they cannot call it cheese as it does not contain cheese. Also why Velveta isn't marketed as cheese.
Well, this would seem to be a cut and dry application of that law. You can't call something with a finite and specific amount of allowed use an unlimited use service. I'm not sure why they aren't being sued under those laws.
And with VoIP, it's not even ambiguious as to what the unlimited might refer to as it may be with data services - I mean, it's not unlimited time connected, and I can't see any way they could claim it's unlimited data transferred during the x minutes.
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JoshNJ
Premium
join:2001-12-25
Freehold, NJ
| Re: Typical... said by jp10558 :IIRC the reason CHEEZ WHIZ or whatever that canned chedder like stuff is that is pressurized isn't called Cheese Whiz is because legally they cannot call it cheese as it does not contain cheese. Also why Velveta isn't marketed as cheese. both cheez whiz and velveeta do indeed contain cheese and are both considered cheese
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheez_Whiz
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I support the RIAA | |
| | | | | | | joebrumbe
join:2004-12-04
Akron, OH |  Re: Typical...
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| In order to save everyone some time, as well as the pro corporate posts from our favorite right wing drones, I've taken a moment to write up their replies. These replies are sarcastic, for those not able to understand in advance, as well as those corporate drones who agree with the statements made below.
#1: It's verizons network, they can do what they want with it. If you don't like it, you can go to another network.
#2: Verizon isn't providing the service for free. They have a right to make money, and if you abuse it, they have a right to terminate you.
#3: Only terrorists need unlimited minutes. You're a terrorist if you don't support verizon, and you probably kick dogs when you walk down the street.
#4: Unlimted doesn't mean unlimited. You don't understand how the business world works. Unlimited means that verzion gets to rape you for all the money it can, not that you can make unlimited calls. You just don't understand if you think verizon is wrong.
hopefully, this will fulfill the needs/desires of the corporate drones who feel that the sheeple of the world should be THANKFUL they get to give there money to a mighty fine, patriotic corp like VerDisneyonMegaConglomerIAA/*AAcorp.
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Grand Poobah | |
| | | joshpo
join:2002-09-24
Philadelphia, PA | Re: Typical... This is without question the best post ever on this site. Congrats. | |
| | | | 
TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Typical... said by joshpo :This is without question the best post ever on this site. Congrats. That's a pretty hefty compliment. Such praise should be slung around with care.
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home | |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
1 edit | said by G_Poobah :In order to save everyone some time, as well as the pro corporate posts from our favorite right wing drones, For you "screw the rule of law", and "there is no controling legal authority" left-wing drones....
What is the definition of "is"?
It's funny how you throw politics into they fray when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I am a "right-winger" so to speak and I disagree with Verizon's "Unlimited" definition. If they are going to market ANYTHING as unimited (minutes for instance), there should be ABSOLUTELY NO limit to those minutes.
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secundum umbra EGO specto lux lucis | |
| | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Typical... said by DaveNJ :Like Left wingers dont own, or work for large corporations. We're too busy rolling our doobies.  | |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN | Ignorant comments in first two sentences and last sentence aside, that post was entirely truthful. | |
| | | wilburyan
join:2002-08-01 | Your my hero, that post rocks... | |
| | | 
gheezer
Compooters R Us
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Henrietta, NY
| It IS Verizon's network. As a business, they have every right to market their network as they see fit.
Let the Market decide. If the service doesn't suit you, by all means, go elsewhere. The most important vote ANYONE in a free market society can make....is with their wallet.
I despise the socialist drones who continue to insist the federal government should run our lives, protect us from ourselves, and prevent companies from making bad business choices.
Moscow folded up the tent on socialism, I think you should too.
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Join the NAVY, see the world....It's mostly water! | |
| | | |
Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
| Re: Typical... said by gheezer :It IS Verizon's network. As a business, they have every right to market their network as they see fit. They do NOT have the right to market their product deceptively. It is against the law. However, someone has to call them on it first. And I would imagine at this point enough other companies are doing it, Verizon could make a good argument that the dictionary definition of "Unlimited" really means "See Fine Print for Limits", and therefore they haven't lied.
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AMD X2 4400+/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 2x 512Mb Kingston HyperX PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler | |
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gheezer
Compooters R Us
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Henrietta, NY | Re: Typical... Fair enough...truth in advertising laws already exist. Again, it's Their company, they are allowed to screw it up.
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Join the NAVY, see the world....It's mostly water! | |
| | | | | 
verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eagleville, PA | Re: Typical... If I have to use that phone to call D-Link "consumer" tech. support that can easily be more than 3 hours a day waiting in a queue only to be disconnected. | |
| | | | | | | noogoo
join:2005-06-27
| unlimited as in use the service unlimited but in the month your unlimited is too much the service will be cancelled.
unlimited for a limited time.
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noogoo vs. the copyright law - »noogoocopy.blogspot.com/ | |
| | | | | phaqu
join:2005-05-26
Marietta, GA
1 edit | Re: Typical... I hear you.....A few law suits and bad publicity might set them straight. If you mean 5000 mins....say 5000mins. | |
| | IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
| I can understand an independent VoIP company limiting minutes to 5K, however, with Verizon you have also to purchase:
1) A POTS line with all the enherent charges from Verizon
2 VerizonDSL/FIOS line with monthly charges
3) Verizon VoIP product and pay their more than market standard monthly rate.
Hence Verizon should really allow at least 10K minutes to be fair. | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by chesney09 :Someday.. people will start fighting for the these companies for services that they are paying for. How on earth can they market "unlimited", when it isn't?!?! This really isn't *news* of any sort to Verizon.
If you look at ANY phone or cable phone company, (Comcast, SBC, Qwest, Cincinatti Bell, Charter, Cox, and now Verizon) you will see that they all state that "unlimited long distance" is 5,000 minutes a month.
I agree that unlimited has a definition and should mean what it says. I also believe that they should ALL sell these services as 5,000 minute packages and do away with this bullsh*t fraud.
I think it's sad that no one has leared their lesson from the AOL unlimited use debocale in the late 90's...
Again, one thing is for sure, this is NOT isolated to just Verizon. | |
| | Mastertux
join:2001-06-19
Mountain View, CA | People who talk on the phone more than 5,000 mins a month for personal reasons need to re-adjust their lives. As far as unlimited goes they should just mark it as 5k. | |
| | vannyx
Premium
join:2003-07-07
Bronx, NY
| Cablevision does it. Cap abusers or cancel ( unreasonable definition of abusers). who they feel is using more than their fair share, but i think the term unlimited should be lifted and that all limits on an account of any kind should be stated clearly and easily not in the fine print. Users needs to know and understand their limit before they sign up for a service. They should never Get a surprise from the service provider. Usage Caps suck , if you have them then you should never stated UNLIMITED. Near Unlimited with Limits. is what they should call it. | |
| | myokitis
join:2004-06-19
Alexandria, VA
| This limit isn't uncommon . . .AT&T's Callvantage plan has the same threshold:
"If you subscribe to a calling plan which included unlimited calling of any type, unless otherwise specified by your specific plan in marketing materials associated therewith, any usage in excess of 5,000 aggregate minutes per month (or 7,500 minutes for the 2-Line Plan, and certain AT&T teleworker plans offered to end users in conjunction with a corporate service), taking into account all types of calling in your plan which are provided on an unlimited basis, shall be presumed to be not consistent with these restrictions and shall be subject to the conditions above. AT&T also reserves the right to impose usage caps on second lines offered as part of a Service offer.
" | |
| donjuan2002
join:2002-10-06
Kearny, NJ
 ·Verizon FIOS
| unlimited They lied to consumers, unlimited in unlimited not 5000 minutes, this will hold in court.
Definitions:
1. not restricted: without limits, restrictions, or controls
2. infinite: lacking or appearing to lack a boundary or end
3. complete or total: not subject to qualification or exception
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| 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Verizon must leave "unlimited" out Whereas I cannot imagine anybody average using up 5000 minutes, I protest against this deceptive marketing crap. Verizon should be sued for using the word "unlimited" - it's plain English, for God's sake, unlimited means no limits but their service has a hard limit.
This is unacceptable. | |
| | 
mustang03282
join:2003-01-10
Bridgeton, NJ
clubs: | Re: Verizon must leave "unlimited" out lol try having teenage kids | |
| | | 
hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Re: Verizon must leave "unlimited" out average minutes here is around 6000 per month had them a year, and i have two teenagers.:D:D:D
Vonage keep up the good work! | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| It's 83.3 hours a month. Yes, it's obtainable in a month. There are 3 people in my home. Each on of us has family scattered all over the U.S. - We keep in touch all the time.
Not to mention, with the advent of UL long distance, many people are moving away from 800 service knowing that the need is dwindling.
You all own computers. Minus the name brand owners out there, more specifically the white box people, many of the parts companies have direct dial long distance support numbers now.
The landscape is changing on a large scale. If you took the 83.3 hours a month is divide it by the average 4.5 person home, that's 18.51 hours a month per month per person. That's about a 37 minute long distance call per day per person per month.
One other "little" thing. Many states have provisions in their laws, like we do here in Minnesota, that says that if the phone line is installed in the home and is used for business purposes, it's still a "residential" service. In Minnestoa (as others) the line is determined SOLELY on the dwelling it's attached to. (with a few small exceptions) | |
| 
ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | Congressional hearings needed.... Why not?? They have them for everything else...
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FWD#: 223611 | |
| | chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | Re: Congressional hearings needed.... This is false advertisement, even if they posted in the terms and conditions. | |
| | |
ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Congressional hearings needed.... Agreed... And I was only being slightly sarcastic. AS there probably DOES need to be some kind of Govt. intervention as it is very wide spread. Not only in the realm of VoIP, but look at how many large ISP's advertise unlimited internet but then send you a letter when you download too much.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
| | | | chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | Re: Congressional hearings needed.... I agree with you... my coment was in general not to you only.. | |
| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by ropeguru :AS there probably DOES need to be some kind of Govt. intervention as it is very wide spread. Not only in the realm of VoIP, but look at how many large ISP's advertise unlimited internet but then send you a letter when you download too much. There needs to be something done, especially if Verizon is going to market their VoIP service as a replacement for traditional voice services.
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This space intentionally left blank... | |
| | myokitis
join:2004-06-19
Alexandria, VA
| This is not uncommon . . . AT&T's Callvantage plan has the same threshold:
"If you subscribe to a calling plan which included unlimited calling of any type, unless otherwise specified by your specific plan in marketing materials associated therewith, any usage in excess of 5,000 aggregate minutes per month . . . shall be presumed to be not consistent with these restrictions and shall be subject to the conditions above. AT&T also reserves the right to impose usage caps on second lines offered as part of a Service offer." | |
| 
jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | It's Verizon... Do we expect better from Verizon?
Don't do business with Verizon. | |
| jshfld
join:2005-08-06
Dundas, ON
clubs:
| Read the quote "More than 5,000 minutes a month is considered beyond normal residential use and may be investigated, resulting in potential termination of service," will hold just fine in court because what they're saying is they *may* investigate and that has the *potential* to get you terminated. Translated this means if your using well over 5000 minutes they'll have a look and if they see your single and without kids and the numbers your calling are for businesses then your gonna get the axe. Verizon just doesn't want their SOHO clients switching to this, which is probably stated in the AUP. In short, they're just fine in court because for the uses their AUP authorizes it is unlimited and they've in no way guaranteed a limit. | |
| |
See 11 replies to this post | |
bsdaiwa
join:2004-06-04
Fullerton, CA
| When is Unlimited, Unlimited? Cambridge Dictionary defines Unlimited as:
adjective
not limited; having the greatest possible amount, number or level
American Heritage Dictionary defines Unlimited as:
ADJECTIVE:
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines Unlimited as:
Function: adjective
1 : lacking any controls : UNRESTRICTED
2 : BOUNDLESS, INFINITE
3 : not bounded by exceptions : UNDEFINED
I rest my case….. | |
| |
See 8 replies to this post | |
stonecolddsl
Linux Junkie
join:2004-01-07
Sarasota, FL
·Rapid Systems, Inc.
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Verizon Online DSL
| Unlimted that really not unlimited. I have the verizon freedom package ( landline)
It states unlimited long distance to the US and Canada i wonder if i use more than 5000 long distance minutes will they get mad? what about unlimited local service if i use more than 5000 minutes on my local land with is very possible as the phone rings ever 2 minute litterly | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Unlimted that really not unlimited. said by stonecolddsl :I have the verizon freedom package ( landline) It states unlimited long distance to the US and Canada i wonder if i use more than 5000 long distance minutes will they get mad? what about unlimited local service if i use more than 5000 minutes on my local land with is very possible as the phone rings ever 2 minute litterly You know, you actually bring up a good point here. Unlimited local services have been advertised that way for many years. We all know that people have used the "unlimited local service" for WAY more than 5,000 hours a month. Ask anyone with a dial up internet connection on a line specifically for their computer's use. I'd be willing to say there are people that are on their dial up for more than 3 hours a day on average.
With this, the consumer is tuned to expect that unlmited long distance has been defined by the industry as exactly what it is, "unlimited"....
Here's the problem with all this. Phone companies are selling this service because they know that many people won't even come close to 83.3 hours a month in LD use. They know that their useage WILL rise but probably to about 20 hours a month. Their goal is to get many people on the $60.00 bill in general. In the background, there is still per minute charges being waged to the operators. The phone company has to keep a control of long distance use by their customers so they themselves don't get hit with charges from their LD providers. In other words, they are OVER selling service based on what they feel is the "average" use which is where the 5,000 minutes comes in. People that go over all the time are considered NON AVERAGE in their eye and they want them off that plan. Problem is, they sold unlimited service.
This will get interesting. | |
| | | jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY
| Re: Unlimted that really not unlimited. This may be bad for the consumer in some ways, but why are companies allowed to oversell service - sell service that they cannot provide?
My understanding is it is illegial to sell more tickets for an event than there are seats at the event. Why isn't this principle carried over to other sorts of services?
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Opera 8.5(Build 7700); Windows XP Pro SP2;Athlon 64 3400+; 1GB PC3200 DDR; 1M/128k DSL; NOD32(Version 2.5.25); Outpost Pro 2.7;Proxomitron 4.5j Grypen 8/28/05(Opera mod),GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3 | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Unlimted that really not unlimited. said by jp10558 :This may be bad for the consumer in some ways, but why are companies allowed to oversell service - sell service that they cannot provide? It's not that they can't provide it, rather, it's what they are purcahsing on the wholesale market for ld time. However, there has never been doubt that the telephone system in America in whole is being over sold but that's reality. There are far more people than there are available lines. It's expected that not everyone will be on the phone at the same time. This is why, in cases of disasters or emergencies, they ask that people think twice before making calls as it overloads the system. | |
| | | | | MikeVx
join:2005-04-02
Southgate, MI
| Re: Unlimted that really not unlimited. said by fiberguy :said by jp10558 :This may be bad for the consumer in some ways, but why are companies allowed to oversell service - sell service that they cannot provide? It's not that they can't provide it, rather, it's what they are purcahsing on the wholesale market for ld time. However, there has never been doubt that the telephone system in America in whole is being over sold but that's reality. There are far more people than there are available lines. It's expected that not everyone will be on the phone at the same time. This is why, in cases of disasters or emergencies, they ask that people think twice before making calls as it overloads the system. Ding! Pet peeve time here.
Organizations that sell a communication service have the intrinsic obligation to be able to handle perpetual saturation by the entire customer base. Billing for usage is a seperate issue. If it is possible for your system to tip over because your entire customer base uses it at once, you are guilty of extreme stupidity at absolute best.
Communications companies deserve every barb slung at them when the service falls over during a crisis. I have no sympathy at all. By definition, they know the load they need to cary because they know how many customers thay have. There is no *legitimate* reason for overselling communications capacity. Or anything else for that matter, he says, remembering how airlines jerk people around on seating.
I am even harder on wireless systems as they need to be able to handle over 100% of thier known customer base to allow for roamers.
In a disaster or crisis, communications systems need to work. I concede pracitcal limits. The communications provider cannot be at fault if someone cannot be reached because that partys connection is maxed out (either no call waiting, two calls in process already, or all stations in use for any sort of call center) or they are not there to answer, or such. The provider is at fault if thier customers cannot all simultaneously be connected if those practical issues do not apply.
I consider 911 a different issue, as I am less than trusting of the system and keep local direct emergency numbers taped to the wall by my phone, but if you cannot get a dial tone because the system has crashed, 911 doesn't work anyway.
The one break I will give any provider on capacity is if a disaster damages facilities. Such things are difficult to get around with redundant facilities because there are only so many ways in and out of a given area.
I am sure that this will generate a flame fest, so I will go put on my nomex long-johns now... | |
| 
RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA
| False Advertising If the usage is limited, it should not be advertised as unlimited. Sure 5,000 minutes is a lot, far more than most residential users would ever use in a month. But it is not unlimited, which is how you advertised it.
This is no different from advertising an all you can eat buffet, then stopping somebody from going for his fifth helping. Sure he ate more than most people, but he paid for an all you can eat buffet - not a 4 plate maximum buffet.
Why don't they just advertise it as "up to 5,000 minutes per month?" What is wrong with truth in advertising? I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for lying to your customers.
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One nation, under Zod! | |
| dylking
join:2001-07-31
Saint Paul, MN
1 edit | Unlimited maybe it means 'unlimited access' - you know: You can access it whenever you want, up to 5k minutes.
My apologies - I went back and read it. It's 'unlimited nationwide calls' - which means you're not limited to where you can call in the US and Canada.  | |
| | 
Anon Name Here
@dsl-w.verizon
| Re: Unlimited quote:
My apologies - I went back and read it. It's 'unlimited nationwide calls' - which means you're not limited to where you can call in the US and Canada.
when did we annex Canada? :D:D | |
| | | dylking
join:2001-07-31
Saint Paul, MN
| Re: Unlimited said by Anon Name Here :when did we annex Canada? :D:D "nationwide calls including Puerto Rico and Canada". I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried | |
| 
Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Unlimited is NOT Unlimited No it is not fair. You advertise unlimited, you should sell unlimited. Now, if they suspect abuse of service "phone calls from a residential address 24X7" then I think they have a right to investigate/terminate service. We all know unlimited doesn't mean unlimited, but it SHOULD mean VERY VERY LIBERAL usage. This means if you like to use it 12 hours a day, you should be allowed too. If you are using a phone in your home for 20 hours a day this isn't normal and Verizon DOES reserve the right to disconnect you since you are paying for a SERVICE. They are not required to provide VoIP just like you are not required to buy VoIP from them.
-Tzale | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Unlimited is NOT Unlimited said by Tzale : We all know unlimited doesn't mean unlimited, but it SHOULD mean VERY VERY LIBERAL usage. Actually, I agree with you in spirit, but the above quote, you are wrong. The words we use are defined in our language. Unlmited doens't mean with limits. When deciding court cases, the dictionairy is often consulted. The term unlmited DOES mean UNLIMITED.
There are, however, user agreements that outline the services. Promlem with the whole thing is the ol' hook-line with the word UNLIMITED. When that word is used, no user agreements are in motion, and the plain english language is in play.
Unlimited = Unlimited. | |
| | |
Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Unlimited is NOT Unlimited said by fiberguy :said by Tzale : We all know unlimited doesn't mean unlimited, but it SHOULD mean VERY VERY LIBERAL usage. Actually, I agree with you in spirit, but the above quote, you are wrong. The words we use are defined in our language. Unlmited doens't mean with limits. When deciding court cases, the dictionairy is often consulted. The term unlmited DOES mean UNLIMITED. There are, however, user agreements that outline the services. Promlem with the whole thing is the ol' hook-line with the word UNLIMITED. When that word is used, no user agreements are in motion, and the plain english language is in play. Unlimited = Unlimited. I would like to see that, but I have to give the companies rights to knock people off who are abusing the service. I think "unlimited" constitutes what 95% of the people on a network use. So that means if the other 5% are making thirty phone calls an hour for 20 hours straight, this isn't "normal usage" and would not fall under "unlimited service."
This is network abuse.
There are times I don't agree, such as with Optimum Online. They cap people for uploading files. If I want to upload a 1GB file today I should be allowed too. OOL shouldn't cap people unless they repeat massive "server like" usage several times a day on a constant schedule. I rarely use my upload bandwidth to the extreme, but if I did I would be capped if it was for a prolonged period (30 minutes or so).
-Tzale
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Was ich nicht weiß, macht mich nicht heiß.~*~Keep learning because knowledge is the key to power.~*~Czego Jaś się nie nauczy, tego Jan nie będzie umiał. | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Unlimited is NOT Unlimited said by Tzale :said by fiberguy :said by Tzale : We all know unlimited doesn't mean unlimited, but it SHOULD mean VERY VERY LIBERAL usage. Actually, I agree with you in spirit, but the above quote, you are wrong. The words we use are defined in our language. Unlmited doens't mean with limits. When deciding court cases, the dictionairy is often consulted. The term unlmited DOES mean UNLIMITED. There are, however, user agreements that outline the services. Promlem with the whole thing is the ol' hook-line with the word UNLIMITED. When that word is used, no user agreements are in motion, and the plain english language is in play. Unlimited = Unlimited. I would like to see that, but I have to give the companies rights to knock people off who are abusing the service. I think "unlimited" constitutes what 95% of the people on a network use. So that means if the other 5% are making thirty phone calls an hour for 20 hours straight, this isn't "normal usage" and would not fall under "unlimited service." This is network abuse. Ok, First you say "we all know" that unlimited is not unlimited. Now you are saying that what 95% of the people use is called normal and companies should be able to cut loose the 5% that abuse.
Again, I think you are missing that argument here. The main reason these phone companies are getting people to buy the level of service they are is because they advertised "UNLIMITED LONG DISTANCE CALLING"... they didn't advertise "Unlmited, wink wink nod nod" and they didn't sell "Unlimited service that most people would consider normal use"... they sold "UNLIMITED SERICE."
You can't sell something to somebody that you never intended to sell in the first place. That's just not legal. This is going to be one of the rare casis that I will NOT give companies a break or the ability to "protect" themselves because it's deceptive practices at best. The big hang up here is on the word UNLIMITED. IT's a work in plain english with a VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD MEANING.
Many people sign up for the service and do not get a stich of documentation outlining the rules. I am willing to bet the world on the fact that the AG would not allow them to drop many people for "abusing" the service. Again, the practice of selling long distance service was what got them a customer that they may not have gotten without offering an "UNLIMITED" service.
Now, using YOUR OWN terms, how does someone "ABUSE" an unlimited service? Also, when you start on that "NORMAL" word, it's going to be more subjective than the word "unlimited" ever will be. What's "normal" to one person may not be "normal" to others. | |
| mythology
join:2002-10-16
Seneca, SC | No No its not fair its false advertising and lying. | |
|
lastholdout
@71.241.x.x
| VOip prices$$ Verizon is probably the last holdout on a system that forces per minute reciprocacy on a network that sends calls through digital packet based networks, POTS, or VOIP.
Perhaps the only service that is actually worth what they charge is the FIOS internet packages. With that being said, the VOIP industry has alot to clean up in terms of what each vendor means on terms such as 'unlimited', surcharges, 'bottom line pricing', and features.
Perhaps an industry association could get together and solve some of these issues and allow voip to move forward, beyond early adopters. | |
| haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA | My teenaged sister in law would kill that... ...I've seen her on the phone for 5+ hours easy... | |
| 
jsimmons
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-24
Falls Church, VA
| Others do it too !! Cox digital telephone has an "unlimited" local and long distance plan similar to the Verizon plan. In the fine print, they say "Excessive monthly usage may subject accounts to review to ensure consistent Unlimited Plans tariffed terms. Other restrictions apply.".
If you read the tarrif and the terms and conditions, you find that if you use something like 3000 minutes (can't remember the exact number) you will be scrutinized.
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"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."- Albert Einstein | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| UNLIMITED: Definitions of unlimited on the Web:
* having no limits in range or scope; "to start with a theory of unlimited freedom is to end up with unlimited despotism"- Philip Rahv; "the limitless reaches of outer space"
* outright: without reservation or exception
* inexhaustible: that cannot be entirely consumed or used up; "an inexhaustible supply of coal"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
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| 
ss4vegito7
join:2004-07-24
Cranbury, NJ
| They Just Don't Want Buissness's Using It!! Come on you guys how can you not see this! They are making sure buissness users don't use thier resendential services! They don't think you a terrorist if you go over they think your running a buissness in your home!
Also, If you use more then 5,000 minutes and its NOT for buissness, just personal calls then GET A F*** LIFE! | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: They Just Don't Want Buissness's Using It!! said by ss4vegito7 :Come on you guys how can you not see this! They are making sure buissness users don't use thier resendential services! They don't think you a terrorist if you go over they think your running a buissness in your home! Also, If you use more then 5,000 minutes and its NOT for buissness, just personal calls then GET A F*** LIFE! What an idiotic post. The point is that in today's world, people have distance between them and want the unlimited service.
You make this sound simple but I am also guessing that you have never "worked" in the industry have you? I have. I know what they do on the back end in the phone billing systems.
This is not about business vs. residential. Read further up in thie forum about laws regarding services in dwellings. It's purley about the amout of useage one uses per month. They don't care if you are business or not. They care what you use. The "it's for business" line the phone company gievs you is their "justification" on the termination. However, they have terminated MANY residential people for excessive use.
They don't "investigate" your useage. Jack Slooth doens't show up at your home to see what you have, they don't ask the kids questions, none of that. They look at the number of minutes and determine if you use too much for their own billing structure and selling points. They do not want you to even use the 5,000 limit. They actually do look at you at much lower thresholds. You get to 50% regularly, for example, your account is flagged for further watching .
Again, many states don't let the phone company restrict busines use on a redidential service line as long as it's in a home dwelling. The PUC steps in there. They WILL, however, stop you from installing a residentail line in a comercial dwelling - no doubt about that.
And I don't care what their disclaimers say about "not for business use" either since that term applies again to the installation of a residential service line in a commercial dwelling. Many people work from home and the PUC says it's A-O.K. - and for the record, they say the same thing on metered residential long distance and NEVER squak about that aspect of it. They don't require you to pay business rates on home business measured long distance service either. They can't unless you have a "business line"... | |
| Kkrunch
join:2001-09-03
Puyallup, WA | Different "Unlimited" for Verizon My teenage daughter has used over 5,000 night and weekend minutes on Verizon so I guess the cell phone unlimited is different than VOIP unlimited. Maybe the cell phone is "unlimited". 5,000 minutes a month is not unlimited. Thats a fact. | |
| | 
needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
Glendale, AZ | Re: Different "Unlimited" for Verizon I read the fine print and Verizon doesn't distinguish between local or LD. It just says 5000 minutes. I wonder if someone screwed up the fine print and meant 5000 LD minutes?
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Of all the people I know... you're one of them. | |
| 
ablack6596
join:2005-01-28
Scarsdale, NY
| It depends It depends on what they do after they investigate. Investigating the account after 5,000 minutes doesn't mean they cut you off after that. They could just want to check that you are actually using that many minutes in a way that is allowed by the service. If you're running a call center for HSN on the connection they have the right to cut you off.
Now I don't like these limited unlimited plans either, however you have to see how Verizon actually reacts to a case like this before you can decide what they're actually doing. | |
| | 
wwdubbia
join:2002-06-03
Clinton, NY
1 edit | Re: It depends I'm sure they did market research and found that .00001% (or some similar figure) of the population falls below the 5000 minute threshhold and used that as the benchmark for which 'unlimited' could rhetorically apply.
Theoretically, it IS unlimited in terms of minutes per month, it's just that they'll start billing extra for the calls after 5000 minutes, right? Does it say unlimited FREE minutes? Again, that wouldn't technically be right either since you're paying for the minutes anyway via your monthly recurring charges.
If they cut your service off after 5000 minutes that would be limited.
What about the phrase 'unlimited nights and weekends' on cell phone plans? Isn't that oxymoronic as well? | |
| | |
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: It depends According to the quote off of Verizon's web site - use of over 5000 minutes could cause termination. I have seen cell phone plans that offer 5000 night and weekends, you pay extra when going above that amount (I have 'unlimited').
For packages with unlimited calling, more than 5,000 minutes a month is considered beyond normal residential use and may be investigated, resulting in potential termination of service. | |
| 
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Its fine Ok so who would talk for that long anyway? Plus you could probably go 8,000min and they wouldn't even glance at your account. | |
| | 
TechSponge
join:2001-05-14
Hillside, NJ
| Re: Its fine "Ok so who would talk for that long anyway?"
I take it you've never had to call your cable company(ComCrap), or the RBOC itself(Verizon), or your cell phone company(Verizon Wireless),or your Manufacturers PC Support hotline(Dell/Hell).
There goes your 5000 minutes. And 65-80% of that is YOU ON HOLD waiting to talk with someone. And when that someone gets there...its takes double the amount of time to have the numbnutz on the other end understand WHAT the problem even is!
Now, Does that time your ON-HOLD actually count? I mean...your not TECHNICALLY doing any TALKING to anyone but yourself, right? Is UNLIMITED FOUL language while ON-HOLD Allowed?
Is there a lwayer in the house??? | |
| | public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| said by Rob A :Ok so who would talk for that long anyway? Plus you could probably go 8,000min and they wouldn't even glance at your account. Many users would be interested in a 5000 min or even 8000 min plan. But what does that have to do with an unlimited plan??? | |
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Verizon VoIP: Unlimited Means 5,000 Minutes
