 
kv5e
Ride Free
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Mesquite, TX | Because We Can Like it or Lump it! | |
|  | | | | chesney09
Premium
join:2004-07-26
Redford, MI
clubs: | Re: Because We Can THAN DON'T MARKET IT AS UNLIMITED BROADBAND! That is the ONLY point everyone is making reagrding this issue. Sell it and limit it how ever you want.. But then don't claim it it UNLIMITED! PLAIN AND SIMPLE. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Because We Can I agree - sell it, push it, promote it as it can do everything. 'Unlimited Broadband Access' - only you're limited to do narrowband tasks.
No VoIP
No streaming
No downloading videos/mp3's
I was thinking about purchasing this (or something like it) for my work. However, I need to be able to run X/Motif over VPN for monitoring, and remote desktop.
Just in case anyone thinks that its only Verizon - I checked Cingular's out, and it has a similar EULA. I thought about Sprint (haven't checked its EULA), however store sales reps assure me (yeah right!) that there's no limits, and can be used for VoIP, streaming, etc. | |
| | | | | adsldog
join:2000-12-01
Woodstock, GA
1 edit | Re: Because We Can 'Unlimited Broadband Access' This means you can log on any time you want for as long as you want, not Unlimited Bandwidth that is not what it states. And yes it is standard with most all ISP's, read what you are agreeing to and if you don't like it then don't sign up.:D | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Finally, someone without this "hate Corporate America" attitude on this board! | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Because We Can said by rachelsfx  :Finally, someone without this "hate Corporate America" attitude on this board! And boy do I get hammered for it on a regular basis. But I laugh all the way to the bank as my portfolio grows.
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Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Re: Because We Can Me 2! LOL | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Re: Because We Can Maybe you two should read what is this all about. Yeah I hate people like you but that's not the point.
The point is you can sell your product but without false advertising. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Hahaha... What a pair of LIARS..Please explain how you are 'laughing all the way to the bank' when your 5 year returns on those companies you 'support' average -50% rate of return?
Comcast : 5 year return - -28%
Verizon : 5 year return - -44%
SBC : 5 year return - -58%
Hahahahaha... busted.. liars..
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Because We Can said by G_Poobah :Hahaha... What a pair of LIARS..Please explain how you are 'laughing all the way to the bank' when your 5 year returns on those companies you 'support' average -50% rate of return? Comcast : 5 year return - -28% Verizon : 5 year return - -44% SBC : 5 year return - -58% Hahahahaha... busted.. liars.. I wasn't aware that every other company in America went out of business between 3 pm and now. Good to know.
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HOLY CRAP, LIONS! | |
| | | | | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| said by GOLFnSUN :And boy do I get hammered for it on a regular basis. But I laugh all the way to the bank as my portfolio grows. Did you ever stop to consider the ethical implications of collecting corporate "blood money", because of their (often illegal - as in this particular case of apparent outright false advertising), and attempt to understand the disconnect that you apparently have, with the general populations' problems with this sort of grossly unethical corporate behavior? You're getting rich, by effectively helping corporations to sell out and destroy the rights and liberties of fellow American citizens. Now that's something to take to the bank for sure... 
(Pure capitalism == pure greed, without regard to the side-effects that such a system causes, which lead to an inherently unsustainable future for all of us.)
PS. You sure change usernames a lot, don't you, Old_Repub? | |
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stickfigure
join:2002-06-11
El Cajon, CA
| said by GOLFnSUN :Verizon is selling browsing and email for their EVDO offering. They aren't selling a p2p music downloading machine or a VOIP machine, etc. If you don't like that - use another product. "Speed
Quickly download complex files and view email attachments with average download speeds of 400-700 kbps capable of reaching up to 2.0Mbps." straight off Verizon's website: »www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/mobi···view.jsp
I'm not sure of your understanding of "Complex Files" but it sure as hell doesn't equal browsing/email and nothing else.
I think what everyone is frustrated about here Tomkcr is that they sell the product as "Unlimited" and then in the small print disclose it as "well as long as your only browsing or looking at email...." | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Yea keep your money in a company that sells a product that no one is obvioulsy going to want.. Excepect for the "few" businesses that sign up.
Use another product... We will!
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Who do you want to pay off today? | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Because We Can said by packetscan :Yea keep your money in a company that sells a product that no one is obvioulsy going to want.. Excepect for the "few" businesses that sign up. Use another product... We will! Who said I had any money in Verizon? All I said was I had a portfolio that was making very good returns, which I do.
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Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL | Re: Because We Can Cool, thanks for sharing. Now, would you mind piping down so the rest of us can discuss the TOPIC? Thanks. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | Re: Because We Can said by JoeOnSunset :Cool, thanks for sharing. Now, would you mind piping down so the rest of us can discuss the TOPIC? Thanks. I love how you guys try to drag people thru the mud in an off topic manner and then accuse them of being off topic when they successfully defend themselves.
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HOLY CRAP, LIONS! | |
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tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: Because We Can said by Combat Chuck :I love how you guys try to drag people thru the mud in an off topic manner and then accuse them of being off topic when they successfully defend themselves. Hey Chuck...do you know you're being off-topic by calling out the people who are being off-topic while accusing others of being of being off-topic? 
OT: What happened to Radical Ed???
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Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Because We Can said by tapeloop :Hey Chuck...do you know you're being off-topic by calling out the people who are being off-topic while accusing others of being of being off-topic? I was just pointing out the irony; I don't really care if people are off topic.
said by tapeloop :OT: What happened to Radical Ed??? Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky the 4th went bai bai. Den will be taking her place for now.
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HOLY CRAP, LIONS! | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
1 edit | said by Combat Chuck :I love how you guys try to drag people thru the mud in an off topic manner and then accuse them of being off topic when they successfully defend themselves. I think you're imagining conspiracies. I wasn't participating in the argument at all. I'm just a guy passing though, who thought your comment about how great your personal investment strategy is was really, really lame. But I admit, it's true: it was hypocritical of me to admonish you for being off-topic, but I thought it was gentler than what I really wanted to admonish you for. | |
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la2ralusyahoocom
@verizon.ne
 from:
GOLFnSUN
| Although the majority of posts have some very compelling definitions of "unlimited" I think the point has been overlooked.
Tom, you made a valid comment on another thread that has been ignored here '»Verizon EVDO: Unlimited, Isn't' . Verizon's website claims (unless updated recently) "Unlimited Broadband ACCESS" To me means I can log on as many times as I want w/o incurring an additional charge. They also mention "Unlimited Monthly Home Airtime Usage" Which I understand to mean that I won't be charged for the amount of airtime I use when logging in as many times as I wish. What I do not see mentioned is "unlimited data-transfer".
I can agree that the advertising can be misleading (it is easy to assume that one could login as many times as they want and d/l as much as they want for as long as they want, when just glancing at the ad) -especially if one hopes the golden goose is real, however, I think the ire resulting from this should be shouldered upon those whose misinterpreted the advertisements, We as consumers have the right and responsibilty to ask. If then verbally mislead, Verizon (or it's CSR agent is responsible) No one likes paying for "x" and recieving "y" - especially in a proven bait-n-switch. But I fail to see that here (I am not infallible, I can and have been mislead by my own interpretations- but since I happen to work with small print for a bank and am used to looking for it) | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | wonder what they mean by games, do they mean you cant download games or do they not want someone to play MMOs over the connection.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| What goes around comes around.
Make ISPs Read YOUR Fine Print
Rogers customer creates his own EUA
(This was news posted a while ago, 2005-04-19 11:28:39 to be exact.)
Tired of ISP EULAs that throttle your bandwidth, limit your privacy, and sell your personal information to marketers? One Rogers cable user in our forums has included his own, lawyer approved (so he claims), end-user-agreement on the back of his checks. "By taking this payment" the user's fine-print insists, "Rogers agrees to forfeit the right to cap/throttle my Internet Service." While he'd face a steep uphill battle in court, it's funny all the same.
»Make ISPs Read YOUR Fine Print
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Back in the days before the Army Corps of Engineers chained the Mississippi River to a fixed course the locals knew damned well not to build anything you’d miss on a floodplain. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Does This Mean Pulver Broke the EULA? When Pulver attended the FCC meeting remotely using EVDO, was he breaking the EULA? If so, did he tell that to the FCC?
»More on Telecom Act Rewrite | |
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hurl8
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Ontario, CA |  I'm sure they can hear you now
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Re: I'm sure they can hear you now No, you...sky..cket is go..g .t. C...t he** yo... | |
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Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | Who is forcing you to use verizon? Waaah waaay cry cry. use something else. Complaining wont get you anywhere. Market pressures will. | |
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dilettante
join:2002-01-01
Haslett, MI | Re: Who is forcing you to use verizon? There are no market pressures in our monopoly-friendly legal environment. That's the point. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| You'll never convince the corp wonks The term unlimited to them means 'What the corporations say unlimited means'. The term unlimited to everyone else means exactly what the dictionary says.. 'without limits'.
Verizon is lying. Verizon is using false advertisement. It's an open and shut case. "If you're going to restrict consumption in any way, then don't tag your service as "unlimited"."
They know the value of the word UNLIMITED. It excites the customer. It makes the customer think they are getting a great deal! It's a VERY powerful marketing word.
Time for the Attorney Generals, FCC and other agencies to step in and start penalizing Verizon. And not slap on the wrist penalties, I'm talking forcing verzion to live up to what they advertised they were selling. UNLIMITED bandwidth, UNLIMITED everything over their network, for all existing consumers, for as long as Verizon locked them into a contract. I'm talking personal penalities on ALL the executives of Verizon. I'm talking making the executives hurt financially, personally, for the damage they caused by their lies.
Of course, the corporate drones think that we exist to serve Verizon. The reality is quite different of course. Look at the damage Sony is taking already. As more and more people become technologically aware, the big corps are playing bigger and bigger risks. As soon as all the neocons are kicked out of congress in 2006/2008, hopefully we can go back to an internet that benefits the people.
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL
1 edit | My Thoughts on the Hate Corporate America Types Oh, please! You really think words, not $$$$, talks? All most people on this board do is gripe because biz is pulling the plug on stealing, P2P, and making hogs pay for bandwidth. I own stock in these companies. I say DUMP HEAVY USERS USING P2P since 99% is for stealing anyway. It's in most "EULA's." Most of us biz types use secure means to transport data. As far as VOIP, if these bozos can't figure out 911, they should go out of business. They also should pay FCC access charges just like every other telephone provider (they use the network--why should pots customers subsidize Vonage?). Personally, I'm sick of hearing all this "I want it free" from the Gen-Yers and people that view everything as "free" if tech can do it. Stop whining and pay for what you use and quit thinking we are going to give you everything for free. DSLReports.com users have become a whimpering, stammering, hodge-podge of "hate Corporate America" with simple intelligence that doesn't understand nothing's for free. Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. Why can't you? | |
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mrbum21
@frognet.net
| Re: My Thoughts on the Hate Corporate America Type >I'm sick of hearing all this "I want it free" from the >Gen-Yers and people that view everything as "free" if tech >can do it.
Well, lets see. There are "free" operating systems out there that you download with "free" P2P programs, which you can load "free" video and music editing and authoring programs to record and then replay whatever passes into the system.
If my friend records say "The Simpsons" from cable TV that he PAYS for with this mix of "free" stuff and sends it to me using that "free" P2p software because I missed the episode is it really wrong? Again, we're talking about a TV program that can be picked-up over the public airwaves for "free."
If he recorded the exact same program on VHS tape and shared it with me is that any more or less wrong. Is it because a computer isn't involved?
>Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. >Why can't you?
Are you happy? You don't sound happy.
I get the impression that your pi$$ed that you've paid for so many worthless consumer goods, and feel cheated that someones who grew-up in a different time and place is able to make the most out of what is available to them.
I'm sorry you paid so much for your Cd's and Dvd's, but that doesn't mean that "Unlimited" should mean, limited to those who get the greatest utility out of the product, or perhaps "Unlimited..." to those who don't really use it that much. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: My Thoughts on the Hate Corporate America Type said by mrbum21 :
If my friend records say "The Simpsons" from cable TV that he PAYS for with this mix of "free" stuff and sends it to me using that "free" P2p software because I missed the episode is it really wrong? Again, we're talking about a TV program that can be picked-up over the public airwaves for "free." Yes it is because he's distributing a copyrighted television show without sufficient copyright permissions.
said by mrbum21 :
If he recorded the exact same program on VHS tape and shared it with me is that any more or less wrong. Is it because a computer isn't involved? It's also wrong, but he's not likely to get caught or prosecuted for it. It's kind of like driving through a speed trap going 60 while in a 55mph zone. You're not likely to get pulled over for that, but if you were going 80, you would be. The P2P example is worse because, while the VHS tape was distributed to one person, the P2P copy can go to hundreds or thousands of people.
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-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| said by rachelsfx :...I own stock in these companies.
...which explains your views, no?
... Personally, I'm sick of hearing all this "I want it free" from the Gen-Yers and people that view everything as "free" if tech can do it. Most people want what they thought they paid for. They also don't want to be gouged or otherwise taken advantage of.
quit thinking we are going to give you everything for free. Another revealing statement. What are you giving to whom? Oh yeah, you're a stockholder. Big deal, so am I. That doesn't make me a part of "we" anyway.
It's also interesting that you come out swinging, screaming about "free" when the whole point here has to do with Verizon delivering what people are PAYING for. These people are not carrying around free phones. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Said by corporate whore: Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. Why can't you?
When my parents bought things, they got what they paid for. They didn't get a "right to use" that was limited by a EULA or was accompanied by things that damaged their equipment (all in the name of protecting content). Perhaps if the Corporate America that you're so keen to protect actually held up their end of the bargain and dealt honestly with the consumers, the consumers might feel some obligation to return the favor.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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Razgriz
Pandora rocks
Premium
join:2005-05-31
Fayetteville, NC
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: My Thoughts on the Hate Corporate America Type said by nixen :Said by corporate whore:Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. Why can't you?
When my parents bought things, they got what they paid for. They didn't get a "right to use" that was limited by a EULA or was accompanied by things that damaged their equipment (all in the name of protecting content). Perhaps if the Corporate America that you're so keen to protect actually held up their end of the bargain and dealt honestly with the consumers, the consumers might feel some obligation to return the favor. -tom Give this man a prize. He hit the nail right on the head.
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Want to talk about music? Then go here: MP3.com, the place for music discussion! | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| said by nixen :Perhaps if the Corporate America that you're so keen to protect actually held up their end of the bargain and dealt honestly with the consumers, the consumers might feel some obligation to return the favor. Perhaps if consumers did what they've done throughout history and implicitly distrusted the seller because of the inherent-in-the-transaction conflict of interest, you wouldn't have these companies walking all over you.
A business isn't a living entity; it doesn't have empathy, it doesn't have a conscience; it's like a crocodile looking for food, the business' only goal is to make money for someone; yet you all click thru the eula without a second thought and then blame ignorance when you get screwed. Here's a thought, if you don't understand it you probably shouldn't be accepting it. You see the edge of the cliff coming up but you keep driving because the guy selling the snake oil told you it's ok.
You want companies that treat you a certain way? Stop buying from the ones who don't.
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HOLY CRAP, LIONS! | |
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| said by nixen :Said by corporate whore:Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. Why can't you?
When my parents bought things, they got what they paid for. They didn't get a "right to use" that was limited by a EULA or was accompanied by things that damaged their equipment (all in the name of protecting content). Perhaps if the Corporate America that you're so keen to protect actually held up their end of the bargain and dealt honestly with the consumers, the consumers might feel some obligation to return the favor. -tom Her post on sony drm.How is that provisio going.?
My 2 Cents
Personally, I think DRM has gone too far. In fact, I also believe that the DMCA is Unconstitutional on the grounds that it interferes with interstate commerce. Let one of those RIAA jerks sue me and we'll find out their sharks' tailfins aren't as big as mine. I am working on posting a "friend of the court" brief to help people these morons are suing. Email me at @gmail.com for me to send a copy to you. I'm not ready to yet, but should by the end of the week. It will also include a provisio for a defence against RIAA lawsuits as well.
Maybe this is of a manure revealing nature.?
Rachel Alice Hunter
Chairwoman
Teardropfilms Entertainment Corporation
BTW: I edited out her email she posted, Which may or may not be real.
My spidey sense warns of a spy.
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Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| "Your parents did. Why can't you?"
Well, my parents watched TV in black and white, why do I need color tv?
Well, my grandparents didn't have TV, and listened to the radio, why do I even have tv?
Well, my great grandparents rode horses to work, why the hell do I have a car?
It's called progress. Something you're terrified of.
I'm sure you intelligent design supporters who haven't quite figured out that the earth revolves around the sun have quite a problem with progress. It's strange and scary to you, so you lash out at anything that represents change. Luckily, there's a place called 'Kansas' that will welcome you. A place where the definitions of words like 'science' and 'progress' aren't scary, cause they've been changed to satisfy the neocons.
Just because a company in the past made money doing something, does not give them the right to make money in the present or the future. Some day, we'll all have to introduce you to our friend called 'reality'. Why should I pay FCC access charges if I 'talk' over a packet based network instead of a switched network? Why should I buy the DVD when I can't watch it legally on the devices I want to? Why should I buy a CD that will mess up my computer? I paid for it, it's mine. I choose to ignore the 'law' if the law is stupid, and much to your dismay, the VAST majority of Americans (especially the younger generation) and the rest of the world share my view. You are a fossil. You don't understand the reality of the world today, and it shows with your posts. Sell your shares of Verizon/Comcast/etc, it's the best business move you can make.
We don't hate corporate America. We hate specific companies that we feel are ripping us off. The reason we hate the RIAA is that they are charging more, providing less, and taking away rights we used to have. There are similar issues with Verizon, Comcast, Rogers, etc. They take take take (greed), and don't give us anything in return (except higher bills). It's not my responsibility to make sure they make a profit.
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Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
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See 10 replies to this post | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| said by rachelsfx : I own stock in these companies. The salient phrase. The rhetorical "money shot" if you will.
No, Rachel, this is not, I repeat NOT all about you and your dreams of total world economic domination. There are still some things that are empirically wrong. False advertising is one of them.
Might I suggest that you work a deal with Verizon and a few of the others and get paid for astroturfing? I hear you can make some cake doing it. That way you can buy some more stock and fuel your economic fantasies a bit more.
At least until the stock takes a big dump. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
1 edit | said by rachelsfx :Oh, please! You really think words, not $$$$, talks? All most people on this board do is gripe because biz is pulling the plug on stealing, P2P, and making hogs pay for bandwidth. I own stock in these companies. I say DUMP HEAVY USERS USING P2P since 99% is for stealing anyway. It's in most "EULA's." Most of us biz types use secure means to transport data. As far as VOIP, if these bozos can't figure out 911, they should go out of business. They also should pay FCC access charges just like every other telephone provider (they use the network--why should pots customers subsidize Vonage?). Personally, I'm sick of hearing all this "I want it free" from the Gen-Yers and people that view everything as "free" if tech can do it. Stop whining and pay for what you use and quit thinking we are going to give you everything for free. DSLReports.com users have become a whimpering, stammering, hodge-podge of "hate Corporate America" with simple intelligence that doesn't understand nothing's for free. Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. Why can't you? I am over 50 years old and don't agree with anything you've said (of course as a stockholder I suppose you'd feel obligated to play the role of corporate defender), but what really gave me a good laugh was your comment about what "your parents did." Get a clue, they didn't sell all those boom boxes with cassette tape recorders built in so people could record their friends singing. Then, as now, people bought the songs they really wanted and made copies of the rest off of FM radio, or friends' albums or 45's. Don't talk down to the younger generation as though we didn't do such things - maybe you didn't, but I can guarantee you that a lot of people of my generation did.
Another thing we did was to wait for 45's to show up in what was then called the "cutout" bin, which was records that were no longer at the top of the charts. You could buy individual songs for as little as a nickel that way - not totally free, but certainly not what the record companies had hoped to make. The younger generation doesn't even have that option.
The BIG difference between then and now is that back then, nobody seriously tried to claim that people who made tapes of songs were evil criminals, unless you sold the tape you made. The perception was that you could tape nearly anything for your own personal use and it was okay, but just don't try and sell the tapes you made. I realize that the actual law was probably the same, but people had the perception (and it was pretty much the reality) that such laws were only enforced against people who tried to turn a profit on the work of others. I think if those laws had been enforced against the common people from day one, there would have been a huge outcry against them (also I suspect that the recording industry would never have become the behemoth that it is today).
In any case I find your post truly offensive, because you presume to preach your view of how the world ought to be and your ideals, which in my opinion stink to high heaven (a place you may never see, given what the Bible says about the love of money) and do not reflect the views of the majority of people in our generation, or (I certainly hope) the younger generation. Oh, and by the way, with your "out of the blue" slam against VoIP, I have to wonder if you work for one of the major phone companies, or one of their front organizations that hire people to push their agenda in forums like this, without actually revealing their connection to the company.
If you really think we are such a bad bunch here, and you are so sick of hearing what we have to say, why do you bother to come and read, and then post? Do you think it is your calling to enlighten us, through the use of rude and insulting messages? In any case, if you think that everyone of your generation shares your views on the younger generation, I would like to disabuse you of that notion forthwith! | |
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yzerman
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Grand Rapids, MI
| Re: My Thoughts on the Hate Corporate America Type The problem is now its a quality issue.
Back with analog recording after a while those tapes broke, sounded like crap. eventually if someone like the song they would break down and be forced to go buy it.
Now with digital recording, in seconds you have a near perfect movie, song, etc.. copy of whatever you heart desires. The only thing that puts that in check is encryption that even though is weak is better than nothing.. so they toss the DCMA in there to try to help with that weak encryption but all that does is makes more work for a already taxed court system. | |
| | | | | gar8182
Premium
join:2004-02-18
Seattle, WA
| Re: My Thoughts on the Hate Corporate America Type Not to mention that back then maybe you would distribute a song to a few people...maybe even 10 say. With the internet that song distribution went instantly into the millions.
Don't get me wrong, I can't stand RIAA and am against everything they preach; it's all self-serving bullsh1t on their part.
I do, however, understand why they are upset. The fact that they are too stupid to capitalize on a new revenue stream still amazes me. | |
| | | | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| said by WhyADuck :The BIG difference between then and now is that back then, nobody seriously tried to claim that people who made tapes of songs were evil criminals, unless you sold the tape you made. The perception was that you could tape nearly anything for your own personal use and it was okay, but just don't try and sell the tapes you made. I realize that the actual law was probably the same, but people had the perception (and it was pretty much the reality) that such laws were only enforced against people who tried to turn a profit on the work of others. No, the law itself was also actually structured that way.
The idea being, that creators of copyrighted works, were entititled to exclusive *commercial* exploitation of those works. Recording for personal use, and in some cases even distributing, *so long as no money changed hands*, was more-or-less legal. The line of thinking was that there were no commercial damages. Copyright law was mainly civil, not criminal, back then, so the idea was that one would normally launch a copyright suit, intending for civil damages to be awarded, which was really only feasable against commercial bootleg shops. End-user recording and "sharing" was largely ignored.
Eventually, though, the idea caught on, that those shared end-user private recordings, being distributed, could constitue a "lost sale", and thus were economically damaging to the record companies (and other content producers), and the law was eventually changed (due to lobbying), and the "No Electronic Theft Act" of 1997 was passed, which actually criminalized certain non-commercial copyright infringement. Here's an easy-to-read writeup: »eric_goldman.tripod.com/articles···tact.htm | |
| | | VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| said by rachelsfx : Stop whining and pay for what you use and quit thinking we are going to give you everything for free. DSLReports.com users have become a whimpering, stammering, hodge-podge of "hate Corporate America" with simple intelligence that doesn't understand nothing's for free. Buy the CD, the DVD, and pay your way. Your parents did. Why can't you? It's obvious that you don't read this site enough, because if you did, you would understand that it isn't that simple.
For example, take the Sony DRM issue recently - it's a case in which the exchange of value for goods, results in LESS value by actually doing the right thing and paying for a commercial product, rather than MORE.
If you take the stance of Old_Repub, and view money as the be-all and end-all, then in a pure capitalistic system, you would use every means available to you, and thus naturally choose the means to obtain the goods that give you the most value, and at the least cost. Which would mean downloading music instead of buying poisoned CDs that can damage your PC and OS.
You strongly misunderstand, it's not just that end-users want to download for free - it's because these huge mega-corps. effectively *force* them to, if they want an unadulterated product, free of commercial poisoning.
To put it a different way, if the corporate slave-master was poisoning the drinking water set out at the table for the slave-serfs, don't you think that some of the more intellegent ones, might start to steal *clean* drinking water from the master's well late at night, and then distribute it (secretly) to some of their close friends? Would that be morally or ethically wrong to do?
The game works both ways, and if you think that the corps. are somehow not at fault here for creating exactly this sort of disproportionate-value economy for their goods, then you're wrong. They made their bed, now they have to lie in it. If anything, this recent Sony stunt may have in fact cast long-standing doubt as to the viability of the CD format itself, as more and more people simply choose to stop buying CDs altogether, due to fear of some other new as of yet undiscovered mutilation that could hurt them or their PC.
To close - for most "ordinary Americans" - they have no problem exchanging reasonable money for a product with reasonable value, one that is not poisoned and arbitrarily limited by technological (DRM) or legal (EULA restrictions) means. But the utter greed and sheer folly of the supply-side record companies, that think that they can FORCE both a (fixed) price increase, and at the same time limit well-entrenched customer freedoms to do with the product what they want, is what has (in part) sparked the consumer-awareness revolution, one that will eventually cause those greedy record companies to be "routed around" almost completely.
Sell an honest product, and make an honest profit. But don't sell a dishonest product, because eventually, one won't make any profit at all. You can see which path the record companies, and companies like Verizon, have chosen. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: You'll never convince the corp wonks said by G_Poobah :Time for the Attorney Generals, FCC and other agencies to step in and start penalizing Verizon. And not slap on the wrist penalties, I'm talking forcing verzion to live up to what they advertised they were selling. UNLIMITED bandwidth, UNLIMITED everything over their network, for all existing consumers, for as long as Verizon locked them into a contract. I'm talking personal penalities on ALL the executives of Verizon. I'm talking making the executives hurt financially, personally, for the damage they caused by their lies. Because, you know, all-you-can-eat buffets have to let you eat as much as you can with no restrictions whatsoever (so what if they do not want to stay open until 5 am) and unlimited minute phone plans have to really give you unlimited minutes (even if you decide to run a telemarketing service on your line) and a disneyland annual passport really does have to give you access to all parts of every disneyland park at any hour for as long as you want.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association | |
| | 
MrChupacabra
Premium
join:2003-03-26
Florida
·Bright House
| I'm gonna have to side with Verizon on this one too. The terms of service are very clear on what you can and cant use the service for. Remember, just because you pay for something doesn't mean you can do what ever you want with it. After all, you pay taxes for your roads. Try to setup a toll on it or modify the road as you see fit. I'm sure you'd find out you cant do that either even though you pay for it.
And for the the terms.
Subject to VZAccess Acceptable Use Policy, available on www.verizonwireless.com. NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions may be used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force and field service automation). Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections.
So yes, it is open and shut. Abide by the legal terms you agree to when you set up the service or go elsewhere. But there are a lot of entitlement whores out there that want it their way. | |
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See 8 replies to this post | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Does unlimited buffet mean that the restaurant should stay open until you are ready to leave even if it is the next morning?
Does unlimited minutes mean that you can use the minutes as a commerical resell venture?
Should Disneyland be required to allow you to ride Space Mountain 18 times in a row, hang out in Cinderella's dressing room, and ride the monorail at 3:45 in the morning if you want?
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Member: American Association of Geographers, American Geophysical Union, American Water Resources Association | |
| | |
Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: You'll never convince the corp wonks For the first and last, the hours of operation are usually clearly posted so those restrictions are acceptable. If the restaurant is open from 11am until 10am, then when I arrive at 11am and buy an "all you can eat platter", I shouldn't be told at 12:30 that I have to leave because I've eaten too much.
As for the second example, so long as the plan was clearly labled as "for personal use only" or "not for resale", then I'd have no problems with the restrictions.
It's when the ISPs with "unlimited" plans bury the restrictions in fine print (sometimes spelled out, sometimes hinted at) or don't make mention of them at all that I take issue with them. If they said "unlimited up to 30GB per month" I might call them on a technicality of their definition of unlimited, but I wouldn't argue with them cutting me off after 30GB.
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-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO | So you just want easier to read fine print and no implied restrictions? | |
| | | 
LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
| Re: You'll never convince the corp wonks A clearly posted list of limitations would be good enough to me...
Implcations are subjective. If there are restrictions, list them in a manner as clear as you listed the word "Unlimited"
And yeah, the "unlimited" word is rather clear in the dictionarry. If there are limitations, then they need a new commercial slogan to label the service. Most ISPs are already staying clear of the "unlimited" word because they caught too much flak over it in the past. | |
|
yepgor
@optonline.net | are you reading their ads correctly? Are you sure they didn't advertise it as "uhh... limited" internet access. | |
| | 
MsGeek
We Jam Econo On This Ship, Sailor
join:2001-06-06
Panorama City, CA | Re: are you reading their ads correctly? No, it's UmLimited. | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Not only are their ads claiming unlimited they also make comparisons on file download speeds with their service. Interesting considering the EULA says you can't download files with this service. | |
| ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC | Sounds like our old friends Bait and Switch are back from vacation... | |
| | 
Red Dragon
Imagine BBR in 20 years
join:2005-04-30
Scarsdale, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Sounds like reminds me of OOL capping. A hidden aspect thats wrong, makes the TV ads false advertising and just gives you another new reason to scream in the phone and get talked down by corporates. How come "im the customer here and you have to please me" sort of attitude only works in face to face
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That light that you see at the end of the tunnel. You know that reealy bright one; well its not salvation. Its the 6 o'clock freight train | |
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goodforthem
| Not for you... Sounds like a service that will be DOA. despite the huge amount of money they are pumping into the technology and advertising... I really wonder why the things they charge the most for (ie wireless) they are such control freaks about in the User Level Agreement. | |
|
biteyourownhand
@comcast.net
from:
rachelsfx
| Marketing and upselling This is the status Quo in every marketing dept of every business. Where have you nay sayers been? Have you watch a commercial for anything lately? Let me see; car advertising of hp and speed, oh yea but please obey all traffic laws, don't speed. How about free credit report, oh buy the way,you must subscribe to one year of credit reporting service. Buying a new car; 3.9% APR, wait that is only if you have a 760 credit score and no other bills. Need I show anymore examples?
You call it false advertisement, the companies call it smart advertising and up-selling their product. It is up to the consumer to know what they are buying,read the contract; the fine print. If you sign it,but did not understand or ask questions about your purchase; who do you call GHOST BUSTERS.
Stop always bitching, crying, moaning and making defamatory statements. A WELL INFORMED CONSUMER IS A SMART CONSUMER. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Marketing and upselling While all of these mareketing tactics may be true, if it becomes more common that enough of a stink gets raised on product release that such limited products never "gain traction", they might think twice about their tactics.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
1 edit | So you're saying, since marketers do this all the time, it's okay, and no one should complain.
Where have the nay-sayers been? Right here all along! I'm sorry that BBR doesn't have a forum about auto financing, but I bet if they did there'd be complaints about any deceptive advertising people encountered.
Deceptive advertising is a problem, and it often goes unaddressed. That doesn't mean no one should complain about it. | |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Re: Marketing and upselling said by JoeOnSunset :Deceptive advertising is a problem, and it often goes unaddressed. That doesn't mean no one should complain about it. Very true, and it's a symptom of companies who care only about profits in the short term as opposed to building a long term relationship with customers.
I can remember a time when, if I took my car to a mechanic and he pointed out that certain work need to be done, I probably believed him. Now I find that very often they are simply trying to sell more work that doesn't really need to be done - certainly not right away, and maybe not at any time while I still own the car. The sad part is that the auto dealers repair facilities are the worst - I have caught them outright lying about what repairs needed to be done on more than one occasion (if I ever hear the phrase, "I wouldn't drive this car out of the parking lot until that is fixed", I know to drive quickly away and get another opinion, because every single time a mechanic has said that to me, they were lying through their teeth about the severity of the problem, or in a couple cases, that there was a problem at all).
Because of such incidents, I and many other people (at least in my neck of the woods) don't trust auto mechanics in general, and dealership mechanics in particular. I wonder if telecommunications companies really want to acquire that same type of reputation - that you can't trust a word they say in their advertising, you can't trust what their marketing people tell you on the phone, and you can't even trust what they say to your face when you walk into one of their stores. Doesn't seem that would be healthy for the industry, but that certainly seems like where they are headed. And all the advertising in the world won't convince customers that have been "burned once" to trust them again (just as no amount of glowing television advertisements for dealership mechanics will ever get me to trust one again). | |
| |
smalldifference
| Well, there are numerous companies whom take this tact:
geico insurance(car), allstate(flood insurance policies), verizon wireless, cablevision (all services),etc.
Its more out in your face with advertising, these companies or (sections of them) are more ARROGANT about these sevices... and it shows in the marketing. I tend not to buy these services, and SO SHOULD YOU. Maybe, just maybe this might change-- or maybe they market to certain personalities who like getting overpaying for crappy service, its fascinating to see companies acutally make such money from dupes.. it just goes to show, a business that fails (goes bankrupt) really screwed up BIGtime.. when this nonsense makes money today in 2005.
Consumers are geting stuipider and stupider... | |
| jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL | Phones use same net 4 video But yet Verz is selling the vidoe via phones. it is using the same network. So it is ok to stream to the phone but not the laptop. And Verz is pushing streaming video as the big selling point of its network. | |
| 
kevin25a
join:2001-10-19
Livermore, CA
| Unlimited Unlimited
Unlimited -
Having no restrictions or controls
Having or seeming to have no boundaries
Without qualification or exception
Limited -
Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess: NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions may be used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and individual productivity applications such as customer relationship management, sales force and field service automation). Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess is for individual use only and not for resale. Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess cannot be used: (1) for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games; (2) with server devices or with host computer applications, including, without limitation, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, telemetry applications, automated functions or any other machine-to-machine application; or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections.
Nuff Said
--
DPC SRS, 990, Win98SE, ICS, Proxy Off, Tweaks applied | |
| |
in other words
| Re: Unlimited In other words, when you see that broadband access (ahem, EVDO) commercial on tv in the coffee shop when the guy bends over, thats you the customer when verizon sticks it to you with restrictions.
You have to look for the fine print in the hole.
Probably wimax will kill this off in a year or two, with an external antenna, you can be almost as powerful as a wireless telephone company: 20 mile xmit capability, if you combined this with open access.. the cell phone industry is screwed. | |
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Verizon EVDO: One Mean EULA