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Fios Light?
A low-fat 1Mbps speed tier

There have been some complaints that when Verizon installs Fios, they strip the location of copper, preventing users from downgrading back to cheaper DSL - should they run into a hard financial patch. Granted the Fios have-nots will scoff at the worry, but it was a concern some users had.

When we discussed this in October, we wondered if such concerns could be solved by Verizon offering a "lite" Fios tier. Come this morning there's some rumor chatter in our Verizon forum that such a light tier is being considered.

"My father works for Verizon and told me he was informed they would be offering a new FIOS option for $14.95.," he claims. "The down speed will be 1Mbps, but he couldn't remember what the up will be." The poster is unsure whether or not this would be a competitive-market specific offer, and our contacts at Verizon cannot (read: won't) confirm such a tier.

The reason many cable outfits refuse to sell slower tiers, is the fear it will cannibalize profit made off of more expensive tiers. Many users simply use broadband for browsing, e-mail, and music - and would downgrade. Cable's solution has been to offer these tiers only when customers threaten to cancel, thereby minimizing impact on revenue.

It wouldn't be surprising then to see Verizon pitch a light Fios tier quietly, and only in markets with competition. It could also be trumpeted, since once Verizon has wired your home with Fios, you're likely a broadband, television, and phone bundle customer for life.
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TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

TexasGuy

Premium Member

Not even cable?

They remove "copper" that is telephone line and cable too?
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah

Member

Re: Not even cable?

Since they don't own the cable coax, I doubt they are touching that.

Especially if the customer has cable TV. Don't you think they'd notice if Verizon took away their cable?

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

TexasGuy

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

Well, I just wanted to clarify what the author meant by copper.

state
stress magnet
Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory

state

Mod

Re: Not even cable?

They remove their copper from the house to the distribution point (poll, box, etc). They can't touch anything that's not theirs.
ctaul5
join:2004-03-09
Dallas, TX

ctaul5

Member

Re: Not even cable?

they didnt remove my copper, they just put the ont next to the old copper box
VMSDCLGUY
join:2005-11-04
Keller, TX

VMSDCLGUY

Member

Re: Not even cable?

Given that I'm still using Verizon's copper-based phone service, they certainly didn't touch it when they did the fios install. I wasn't interested in using the fios-based phone service, as the packages they offered were all more expensive than the plain-vanilla service I already had. (I do all my long distance via cell phone, naturally.)

I would imagine that they've got a solution for it, but I wonder how my ADT home alarm system would hook into a fios-based phone system...

Luwigie
Premium Member
join:2002-06-06
Franklin, MI

Luwigie to TexasGuy

Premium Member

to TexasGuy
They just take out the copper for the phone lines, making it impossible to go back to POTS/DSL.

jtudor
MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC

jtudor

MVM

Re: Not even cable?

Nothing is impossible, but it may be against policy for them to re-install copper to a home that has a fiber connection.

There is nothing but policy that would prevent them from doing this however.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL

Member

Re: Not even cable?

said by jtudor:

Nothing is impossible, but it may be against policy for them to re-install copper to a home that has a fiber connection.

There is nothing but policy that would prevent them from doing this however.
So if a home which has FIOS is sold, they new owner is locked into FIOS since Verizon will REFUSE to supply Phone/DSL service via Copper? I can understand this policy for the CURRENT customer but once there is a new customer I think there might be an issue if they refuse to supply service. There might also be an issue if the new owner REQUIRES Copper connectivity due to needing a 24/7 connection that FIOS does not deliver due to the need for a UPS on premises to supply power if there is a black-out in the area.

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

TexasGuy

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

Good point. No 911 with localized power failure...

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

RARPSL

Member

Re: Not even cable?

said by TexasGuy:

Good point. No 911 with localized power failure...
The FIOS connection comes with a short-term UPS so you do not IMMEDIATELY lose your ability to call 911 (and others). I do not know how long it is rated for (either stand-bye or usage) but it is not going to be as long as a POTS Copper Connection.

starstuff
Fly By Wire
Premium Member
join:2001-12-05
Mcallen, TX

starstuff

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

said by RARPSL:

said by TexasGuy:

Good point. No 911 with localized power failure...
The FIOS connection comes with a short-term UPS so you do not IMMEDIATELY lose your ability to call 911 (and others). I do not know how long it is rated for (either stand-bye or usage) but it is not going to be as long as a POTS Copper Connection.
Most of the households nowadays use AC powered phones so what is the use of POTS when your phones don't work? Besides in the past 10 years I've lost power 2 or 3 times due to lightning strikes and only for a couple of minutes with this kind of reliability the power outage issue is irrelevant.
emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium Member
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX

emptywig

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

No, you've got it all wrong. You don't look at how often or how long you HAVE lost your power, you should be looking at what would happen IF you lose your power, just once, for a long time.

People who have loved ones at home that require 24/7 care, or who live in storm-prone areas and may need emergency help during a storm, or a long-term power-outage, would never make an argument like this.

And what is the use of POTS when your A/C powered phones don't work? The use is that you can still get that $5 non-powered phone out from under the counter and you plug it in.

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

TexasGuy

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

Where I live power at times goes out for an hour when there is a heavy rain and it floods something on the polls. At times you can hear explosions... and power goes out.

starstuff
Fly By Wire
Premium Member
join:2001-12-05
Mcallen, TX

starstuff

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

Looks like Houston is worse now than when I attended college at UH in the 80's
starstuff

starstuff to emptywig

Premium Member

to emptywig
said by emptywig:

No, you've got it all wrong. You don't look at how often or how long you HAVE lost your power, you should be looking at what would happen IF you lose your power, just once, for a long time.

People who have loved ones at home that require 24/7 care, or who live in storm-prone areas and may need emergency help during a storm, or a long-term power-outage, would never make an argument like this.

And what is the use of POTS when your A/C powered phones don't work? The use is that you can still get that $5 non-powered phone out from under the counter and you plug it in.
You are loosing the perspective here. POTS is not the answer to any emergency situation. You can easily substitute POTS with another service like a cellular or run across the street to use your neighbor's $5 non-powered phone to make the emergency call.

Nothing is 100% fail-safe, just ask Katrina survivors. I would feel perfectly safe with a fios-only phone system and probably my loved ones would be better off if the emergency response doesn't arrive

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

TexasGuy

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

If power is down in the area then the cell towers are dead as well...

state
stress magnet
Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory

state

Mod

Re: Not even cable?

said by TexasGuy:

If power is down in the area then the cell towers are dead as well...
That's not necessarily true.

A couple of years back when Isabel hit our area the power was out for well over a week...the cellphone towers and facilities they communicated with had backup generators and were actually more reliable than the land-lines because of all the downed trees and power lines.

There was of course a slight bandwidth problem, everyone trying to use their cellphones at the same time taxed the towers and sometimes we had to try making a call several times before it actually went through.

FLea973
Premium Member
join:2001-02-27
Morristown, NJ

FLea973 to RARPSL

Premium Member

to RARPSL
FIOS REQUIERS an UPS onsight to operate? In the last 3years I've lost power 2x for over 3days (once over 5) and POTS never went down. So IF this is true is that UPS ILEC/CLEC property or am I gonna have to replace that battery (or ups if that battery decides to swell before giving dead bat LED) at my own expense?

state
stress magnet
Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory

state

Mod

Re: Not even cable?

No, you shouldn't have to replace any of the on-premises equipment that they install.
VMSDCLGUY
join:2005-11-04
Keller, TX

VMSDCLGUY

Member

Re: Not even cable?

The fios installers make it absolutely clear that when the UPS battery dies, it's up to the subscriber to replace it. The documentation says that, too.

(I seem to recall the fios TV installer saying something about that in passing as well.)

I asked the original installers what the life would be on the battery, and they told me at least a year or two, depending on how many times it got used. We recently had a 5 hour outage when some knucklehead with a backhoe on a trailer pulled down a power pole. The Internet access came right back up (it took the TV settops about 4-5 minutes to get back up), so the UPS did what it needed to do that time...

CalvinatVerizon
@verizon.com

CalvinatVerizon to Luwigie

Anon

to Luwigie
You are correct, they are not required by regulation to go back to POTS/copper. And they are not required (yet) to share their fiber wire with anyone else. That's why Verizon is invested so heavily on Fios.

SolarPup
Office365 Rockstar
Premium Member
join:2002-03-07
Windsor, CO

SolarPup to smcallah

Premium Member

to smcallah
Well, ya know that's why Comcast has been upset with this whole FIOS thing being instaled, they've cut their underground cables when burying the fios cables... so yes, even the coax is being cut
RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN

RJ44 to TexasGuy

Member

to TexasGuy
""My father works for Verizon and told me he was informed they would be offering a new FIOS option for $14.95.," he claims. "The down speed will be 1Mbps, but he couldn't remember what the up will be." The poster is unsure whether or not this would be a competitive-market specific offer, and our contacts at Verizon cannot (read: won't) confirm such a tier."

More hot news from the BBR rumor mill If I post that my father told me pigs were going to fly, I wonder if it would make the front page here too?

TexasGuy
49 States And Texas
Premium Member
join:2002-12-02
Houston, TX

TexasGuy

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

Unless the pigs would offer Wi-Fi on their flight path then no.

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684 to RJ44

Member

to RJ44
I agree, I heard a rumor that Verizon was buying Sprint.
My Dad told me so...

Also, if it was true, would the Dad's job not be at risk?
What about the kids ass when Dad finds the forum?

Voodoo288
Common Sense Dictates
Premium Member
join:2002-08-19
Richmond, VA

1 recommendation

Voodoo288

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

My dad told me I'm special.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

said by Voodoo288:

My dad told me I'm special.
Grow up.

james16
join:2001-02-26

james16

Member

Re: Not even cable?

Nu uh! I'm rubber you're glue! whatever you say bouces off of me and sticks to you!
james16

james16 to Voodoo288

Member

to Voodoo288
special? like ... "good special", or "retarded special"?

sapo
Cruising Down Memory Lane
Premium Member
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA

sapo to keyboard5684

Premium Member

to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684:

I agree, I heard a rumor that Verizon was buying Sprint.
My Dad told me so...

Also, if it was true, would the Dad's job not be at risk?
What about the kids ass when Dad finds the forum?
Without names there shouldn't be a problem.

rms01
join:2004-12-01
Salem, OH

rms01

Member

Re: Not even cable?

Exactly.

And also, I don't see the problem in posting a mere rumor in the Verizon forum if there truly is talk of this.

This truly would be a great way to lure people in because of the low price and high download speeds for the price, and hit them with FiOS TV oppurtunities once subscribed, giving them no reason to stay with DISH or cable service.

telcotech
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium Member
join:2004-09-02
united state

telcotech to RJ44

Premium Member

to RJ44
said by RJ44:

""My father works for Verizon and told me he was informed they would be offering a new FIOS option for $14.95.," he claims. "The down speed will be 1Mbps, but he couldn't remember what the up will be." The poster is unsure whether or not this would be a competitive-market specific offer, and our contacts at Verizon cannot (read: won't) confirm such a tier."

More hot news from the BBR rumor mill If I post that my father told me pigs were going to fly, I wonder if it would make the front page here too?

Well, I work for Verizon and have not heard anything of the sort - but that's not to say that it is not a plan being considered. If true, it would be the fiber equivalent of the $14.95 768/128 DSL plan recently offered for those on copper.
dare99me
join:2005-11-25
Red Bank, NJ

dare99me to TexasGuy

Member

to TexasGuy
I'm a tech for verizon, even if they take the copper loop down, you will probably have to get a clec line, in which by law, have to give you with a copper loop. Otherwise contact your local Public Service Commision or Board of Public Utilities and file a complaint

FLea973
Premium Member
join:2001-02-27
Morristown, NJ

FLea973

Premium Member

Re: Not even cable?

Given Verizon's reactions to previous New Jersey BPU autocratic decisions, and NJ BPU's reactions to Verizon... I'd prefer they just shut up until I got fiber run to me and lit... after that... whatever!... j/k

OTH - my Avatar shows RCN as my provider but Patriot Media has bought my territory from them (thank God) & I never got around to correcting this -- I say this because I am very happy with the service and the customer support (well since RCN left the scene that is) and if FIOS pricing per speed is similar to my current service-I ain't switching. FIOS will have to offer me a compelling reason to switch including price and customer feedback (which I will use DSLR as the gold standard of responses)

CalvinatVerizon
@verizon.com

CalvinatVerizon to TexasGuy

Anon

to TexasGuy
Yes, Verizon is going to offer 1Mbps down and 500kb up for $15-$20 with one-year agreement. We are in the middle of testing it now so you should be seeing that soon (in area where Fios is available). Since Verizon have so much success in signing up 764kb/DSL service for $15-a-month, it is like selling hotcakes, lower-tier Fios is like an introductory package everyone loves to have. Once the reel is in, user tend to upgrade their speed as situation warrant (ex, online gaming). And it is also a good businees practice to keep the user hooked with Verizon (instead of the cable guy). Once you tried Fios, I bet you will never want to go back to cable. Also, when the Fios TV becomes available to your area, it is much easier to sell you TV bundled package since you have the Fios Internet already. It's a win-win situation for Verizon.

gwion
wild colonial boy

join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

1 recommendation

gwion

Catch-22...

Assuming, that is, that when the time comes you want to go back, there IS a copper plant to return to, in your area. Make no mistake, fiber op is the naked carrier medium, and Verizon wants very much to abandon their copper plant within the next two decades, entirely, absolutely and completely.

I think that's probably the single most misunderstood facet of FIOS... it doesn't refer to a service at all, but a naked carrier medium, meant to replace, not enhance, copper. FTTP. That's what it means, in a nutshell.

Verizon has their own reasons for fiberizing, and it's not just, or even mostly, because of ISP services or TV. It's to get rid of what they've decided is an obsolete outside POTS plant, ground up, by replacing it with fiber optical carrier. That means they'll want to quit spending money on maintaining an obsolete, parallel, redundant carrier network as soon as possible... and our major question, then, needs to be, "do I want to be an early adopter, and probably pay more to help debug a rougher edged, roll-out network, or do I want to hold out, and wait until price points even out, rough edges get worked out, or the copper system's phased out entirely?" Ultimately, it will be. It's not just no longer necessary, it's an albatross around Verizon's neck, once they have a full fiber network in a certain area, to have a copper plant running parallel with the fib-op.

PS - and, yes, I agree, I think Verizon would be foolish to sell "only" what we might call "high end" internet packages on FIOS... it will delay deployment, for some of the very reasons this news item brings up. Not everybody wants or needs super-quick ISP services, or, more aptly, not everybody wants to pay a lot for allocated bandwidth they personally never fill. In other words, while it's a choice, during the roll out, the single best selling point they have for getting us to BE early adopters is internet services and TV... customers understand that... they don't understand media versus content and all that... and a lot of customers are probably saying, hell, if I could get the same package I have on DSL or cable, and save a few bucks, I would switch... but I just don't need premium level internet services enough to pay that much.

That's going to lead to a lot more people than we realize yawning and saying they'll convert only either when TV hits their area, or when copper's no longer available. That's probably just what Verizon doesn't want happening, in terms of strategic plans...

••••

poorusers
@71.241.x.x

poorusers

Anon

Poor Users

Yeah, and what happens when a person files for subsidized POTS line over fiber and they have to give the person lifeline service and leave a $2,000 ONT sitting there on subsidized service. Hmm.... this is why parts of the bronx will never see FIBER. That's not my beef with Fiber, the rollouts are being carefully guided 'around' Ny metro and not accelerating in Ny metro. Maybe some Long Island techs can shed some lIghT on this...
My evidence: A. NEW DSL commercial in NY metro. B. No new press releases for NY.

wmcbrine
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD

1 edit

wmcbrine

Member

That's not the complaint

The complaints aren't about whether one can "downgrade to cheaper DSL". Except for the recently introduced $15 package (which this aims to match), Verizon's DSL really isn't cheaper than FiOS, anyway. No, the issue is what DSL has that FiOS doesn't: competitors. Well, semi-competitors. But it's better than nothing. You can get DSL from Verizon, Earthlink, Covad, Speakeasy, etc. You can get FiOS from Verizon.

•••

Kompressor
Premium Member
join:2002-02-12
Huntington Beach, CA

Kompressor

Premium Member

Is this fact or rumor?

In any case, you'll be stuck with Verizon and they'll have you by the balls.
Personally, I like to have other options, in case Verizon bends me over for whatever reason.
BTW, that's a pretty slick move the way Verizon is cutting out all DSL companies and cutting out most, and in some cases, all of their competition in one fatal swoop.

FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

FastiBook

Member

They pull...

When i had FIOS installed i'm pretty sure they left the copper in the ground. They gave me the old NID when the instal was finished. The phone wires (copper) go down the grass between the sidewalk and the street, under the concrete sloping portion of our driveway and then it takes a right hand turn up towards where the utility interface equipment is for our house. The sheath they put in for the FIOS line came under the sidewalk right from the box, under the paved part of our driveway, and then followed the driveway up to that same area. In some cases the line is on a pole and thereofe the coipper is removed, but i believe most of the time if the situation allows it is left in the ground. It would be interesting to see if anyone tried to have them re-connect the copper if it was left in place in the ground. I for one am glad to be rid of DSL and all of its problems associated with distance. At least fiber optic signals can be boosted over distance.

Nitrosoxide13
@optonline.net

Nitrosoxide13

Anon

I know

I Know that when my Fios gets installed in a week they aint removing the copper and they aint running a single cable into my house BUTCHERS! Doing Myself But anyway I will probably switch back to copper phone service because I know one of my phones won't work. Also Verizon is stopping repairs on Copper Lines I have heard