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story category Televangelists Against a La Carte
Putting them at odds with indecency warriors
(old news - 09:24AM Wednesday Nov 30 2005)
tags: Video · business
As we mentioned yesterday, the FCC has pulled a 180, and is now suggesting that "a la carte" cable channel pricing could lower costs for consumers. The LA Times explores how televangelists aren't happy with the push, one preacher saying they're eager to reach the "unchurched" as well as the devout. This ironically puts them at odds with the indecency crowd, who have fought for a la carte in order to get "family friendly" cable tiers.

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kalphearion
In nomine Patri
Premium
join:2003-11-08
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast

They will get what they want

Cable CO's will never provide "a-la-carte" service. yes it will save the consume some cash, but it won't profit for the greedy cable exec's.

a la carte will never happen, unless Hell freezes over and cable exec's grow a heart and cater to the end users' wants.
jeffs471

join:2005-09-16
Camarillo, CA

Re: They will get what they want

said by kalphearion See Profile :

Cable CO's will never provide "a-la-carte" service. yes it will save the consume some cash, but it won't profit for the greedy cable exec's.

a la carte will never happen, unless Hell freezes over and cable exec's grow a heart and cater to the end users' wants.
charge 5.00 dollars each for the very popular channels ie tbs, tnt, comedy central and charge 1.00 for the crub like fuse.

Advertise the service with wording such as "channels as low as 99 cents" however when you add up all the channels you actually watch, the popular ones, you end up paying just as much or more than before but are getting less channels. I see the cable company making money anyway it goes, don't worry they will figure out a way. Its people like espn and mtv who are against it because they like to force their crappy second tier channels on us in order to get the popular channel everybody wants.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12

Re: They will get what they want

Because the cable cos put out XX amount of dollars for crud like FUSE and the smaller channels like BBC and SCI FI and such.
With only a minority of people subscribing to these channels and the channels themselves setting their own prices what do you think you will REALLY be paying?
No cable company is going to give you a channel for .99 when it costs them 6.50 per subscribed sub to offer it becasue the subscriber base is so low. They cant make money off of locals either.
Those that like ESPN and OVATION and other niche, genre channels will be paying through the nose for these channels.

Hell if Im going to pay the same Im paying now to receive 10 channles I REALLY REALLY want and not be able to view the other 200 or so channels I used to get for the same price.

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26

Re: They will get what they want

Then, Like I said previously. If the channel cannot compete and support itself, it will just have to go black and good riddance. There are far too many niche channels as it is, all playing the same crap over and over in rotation, like time warner. If you watch over the period of a couple months, you will see the same movie shown on all the time warner channels one after the other.

CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12


2 edits

Re: They will get what they want

Like BBC is showing crap? Or Ovation? Or SCI FI? ESPN is showing crap as well because Im not into sports. CNN is also showing crap becasue I dont get my news from tv.
I wouldnt mind if those channels folded and disappeared but I WOULD mind if TLC folded because DAM IF I DONT LOVE ME SOME TRADING SPACES!

Let your cable company only offer the channels the MAJORITY want after the niches have folded and mine will offer everything that everyone wants and we will see at the end of the day which system works and which you wold rather live in.
In a broad way your would rather see cable ran like a communist country. No real choices. You must like what the majority likes.
People arent built that way.

Your comparing genre tv to movie channels in speaking about TW showing the same movies on all channels.
Premium movie channels already ARE ala cart. They wouldnt be affected by this ruling.

SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
·RoadRunner Cable

There is nothing wrong with niche channels. Some niche channels ended up becoming more than that after gaining popularity. There is a pretty simple solution to all of this. Have your standard cable come with a wave of default channels (HSN, public access, broadcast channels, weather channel, cooking channel, etc) and a list of choices from a secondary tier of channels (Sci-Fi, Comedy Central, A&E, TNT, etc). Say you can pick 5-10 from a list and if you want more you pay a little more for another block of channels. Then you have the special package you can add to that like a sports package, news package, movie package, etc).

The fringe channels that make cable so interesting still get their support, you get to choose the important channels you want to keep, and you can pay extra for the expensive channels if you WANT to. There. Was that so hard?

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

Re: They will get what they want

I think this might be a good compromise between only offering packages and complete a la carte. Have a bare-bones default lineup which would include broadcast channels, shopping channels*, and a few of the most popular cable stations. Then let users either add on packages like they currently do (Sports, Movies, Kids, etc) or buy a "custom channel package" which would let the user select 5 of their favorite stations. Want more than 5 more stations? Buy another custom package and add 5 more stations. Repeat until you've got a lineup that suits you.

In addition, to help promote niche channels, cable companies could include a "Preview Channel" in the default lineup. This channel would take its content from a different non-default channel from week to week. This week it's HBO. Next week, it's Sci-Fi. The week after that it's Oxygen. You never know quite what you'll find on that station. That might help generate interest in niche (or recently added) channels.


* They pay the cable providers for access as opposed to the other channels which require the cable providers to pay them to air their content. That's why I'd add them by default.

--
-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com

SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

Re: They will get what they want

Smart idea about the preview channel. I only wish these ideas would actually sink into the heads of the people who actually make these decisions.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

I don't think it'll never happen, but it'll never be cost effective. And not because a la carte is flawed in some way, but because the cable companies will make sure it is not cost effective.

If they are forced into offering a la carte programming, they'll do some studies to find out how many channels the average person would order. Then they'll price the individual channels so that the total price is about the same as (if not higher than) their package prices.

In addition, they may price popular channels higher than unpopular ones. This would mean that it would take fewer channels on average to make a la carte more expensive than packages.

They would run with this for awhile, then do a study on cable costs and find (*surprise* *surprise*) that a la carte households were paying more than package households on average. This study would "prove" that a la carte was fundamentally flawed and they would use it to lobby to remove the requirement to offer an a la carte option.
--
-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com
Zoly

join:2004-01-04
Houston, TX

I'm very surprised! In such religious country as USA televangelists are worried??? Just relax, a Bible belt will pay as much as needed to keep those channels alive.

What really needs to be done is adding a new TV rating like REL (religion) so customers can block it on their cable or whatever boxes. And then everyone will be happy.

Or, like if you want to watch sport channels or Encore channels, you have to pay extra 5 dollars a month. I think that Cable companies shall put all religious channels in one package and sell them in one Inspirational package for let's say 1$ a month and in that case I will be sure that not even 1 cent of my money goes toward those guys. And I will be happy.

guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix


1 edit

Re: They will get what they want

said by Zoly See Profile :

What really needs to be done is adding a new TV rating like REL (religion) so customers can block it on their cable or whatever boxes. And then everyone will be happy.
That is a good idea, then the other rating's we can have are SPO (sports) (OUT)outdoors for hunting,fishing and motorsports.FOX for FOX news,where the real news gets reported.

Then we can have HWT (hollywood trash) filter/block for the rest of the cable garbage line up.This way all HWT can be blocked.Better yet make cable ala-carte.This way one does not have to pay for all that gutter grade HWT.And then everyone will be happy.
--
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AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

said by Zoly See Profile :

I'm very surprised! In such religious country as USA televangelists are worried??? Just relax, a Bible belt will pay as much as needed to keep those channels alive.
Honestly, if these folks are so worried about their message not being spread to the "unchurched" via a-la-carte cable...then why don't they offer their channel services up for free? Sure, they won't turn as much (or any) profit...but if spreading the message is the ultimate concern, surely running the channel non-profit wouldn't be a big concern, right?
mr4july

join:2000-11-23
Park Forest, IL

Re: They will get what they want

What maks these "televangelist's" think that people watch these channels just because they are there......
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: They will get what they want

said by mr4july See Profile :

What maks these "televangelist's" think that people watch these channels just because they are there......
They don't...it's all for show actually. It wouldn't be impressive to say "We're watched by 5 loyal fans!", but rather, "we're televised to every cable consumer out there!" If anything modern-day broadcasting has shown, is that if you put enough crap out there...eventually, someone's gonna watch some of it.

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

I think that the only way it can work is if the a la carte offerings come in a tier style package, grouped by genre or similar interests. Otherwise it would become cost prohibitive to provide the service or subscrbe to it. For the same reason you get the value meal at your local fast food joint instead of buying a la carte... it costs less.

You got kids and want the kid channels, then you have to get all the kid channels, disney, nick, noggin, etc

You want the sports channels, then you have to get all the sports channels, espn, fox, oln, speed, etc. So on and so forth...
--
.:|:.Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch it to be sure. .:|:.
stunod2002

join:2003-11-07
Carol Stream, IL

What they should do is both.. Offer the packages as they choose.. maybe the most popular ones with a few gotcha in there like they do now.. Also offer the individual ones are some pricing based on popularity, advertising or some other baseline.. Once you get to a point you may want the package.. or maybe not.. Its a win-win for everyone..
--
Stunod

Maarvin
Premium
join:2005-04-11
Denver, CO
I agree wholeheartedly. Cable companies are in the business of making money, and that is all. They will even rob us if they can. No.."a la carte" will never happen.
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: They will get what they want

said by Maarvin See Profile :

Cable companies are in the business of making money, and that is all. They will even rob us if they can. No.."a la carte" will never happen.
Or if it does happen, the per-channel-price will be more than well padded out to make sure they're well within their projected profits. For cable companies to tell us that they will be losing profits is like Oprah to tell us she'll run outta Doritos.

ronpin
Imagine Reality

join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest


1 edit

Falwell to the rescue


VCHIP the terrorist fags!
It's all a conspiriacy to stop the tele-tubbies homosexual agenda
--
High ideals breed lowly hypocrites

N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

Re: Falwell to the rescue

VCHIP the fags?!?!

ROTFLMAO. Just too damn funny.

packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
·Optimum Online

Packages

Rather Than "a la carte" why not just make a Tv with a V-chip in it so that parents can control access.. Oh that's right that plan failed miserably and you guessed it we all paid for it. (It's obvious that it has failed other wise we wouldn't be discussing this.)

Direct Tv has 3-4 different packages..
Why not add another one that is the "decency package"

This is Just another way for media outlets to rape the customer.

skelet0r
Premium
join:2004-04-26
Florence, AL

Re: Packages

Its not about the V-chip. Its about being able to choose the channels you want and pay for only what you want.

anonpronman

@69.183.x.x

Re: Packages

Um no it's not..

Go read up on who is supporting this "pricing" scheme.

And Finally why would they do this if there wasn't a benefit for them. This will not help the consumer . Ok maybe it will help the people that no longer care for their children and leave the child's raising to the government.

skelet0r
Premium
join:2004-04-26
Florence, AL

Re: Packages

So, you mean every parent that gives thier child ADD drugs or any other psychotropic drug?
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

said by anonpronman :

And Finally why would they do this if there wasn't a benefit for them. This will not help the consumer . Ok maybe it will help the people that no longer care for their children and leave the child's raising to the government.
So you're saying that if we cut children's access to channels that are clearly not for them...we're somehow stunting their growth? Somehow junior won't come out right if we don't have him watch South Park? What the hell?

Somehow, I percieve next you'll be saying: "let the cable companies broadcast all they want or the terrorists win!"

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS

Every digital cable box and satellite recevier that I've come across has the ability to lock out either entire channels or programming based on content or rating. But of course for the religious right, that isn't good enough. Parents obviously shouldn't have to actually set limits for their children...it should be done for them.
--
"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard.
ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL
·AT&T CallVantage
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: Packages

said by cdru See Profile :

Every digital cable box and satellite recevier that I've come across has the ability to lock out either entire channels or programming based on content or rating. But of course for the religious right, that isn't good enough. Parents obviously shouldn't have to actually set limits for their children...it should be done for them.
BBR will always spin the FCC 'a la carte' discussion as a religious issue, even though it has little to do with them. It generates good forum volume and click through on the BBR site.

One group did a good job on the PR front but its been brewing for sometime before the 'family values' crowd got a hold of it.

Instead of a technical solution, some people have just come out and said, "give me a choice", which isn't all that bad for consumers, just not profitable to some fringe content providers. (like televangelists)

ifarrell

join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
·Vonage

said by packetscan See Profile :

Rather Than "a la carte" why not just make a Tv with a V-chip in it so that parents can control access.. Oh that's right that plan failed miserably and you guessed it we all paid for it. (It's obvious that it has failed other wise we wouldn't be discussing this.)

Direct Tv has 3-4 different packages..
Why not add another one that is the "decency package"

This is Just another way for media outlets to rape the customer.
or "Family Friendly Package" if you want to be totally PC.

mabus
Dissociated But Not Disconnected

join:2002-11-12
Fort Wayne, IN

televangelism is lame anyways

i'd rather watch infomericals anyways... listening to some blow-hard try to shove their beliefs down my throat via a one-way medium is just plain wrong no matter how you look at it.

now if tv was more interactive and you could turn those numbnuts preachers into enemies in an FPS (and subsequently fragging them repeatedly with a BFG), then subscribing to the channel might be more worthwhile.
--
MABUSLAND - a nice place on the web to call home!

STEREOLAB - THE GREATEST BAND ON EARTH

CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

1 edit

Re: televangelism is lame anyways

You want to bet on how fast the winger-fundies would get a game like that banned from cable?

F0R t3h Ch1ldrENS!!!!111*DROOL**FOAM**DROOL**
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl...

Thunderlips
Get It Up Fly A Hull

join:2001-12-07

said by mabus See Profile :

i'd rather watch infomericals anyways... listening to some blow-hard try to shove their beliefs down my throat via a one-way medium is just plain wrong no matter how you look at it.
Yes, because we all know once you reach a religious channel you are then put into a hypnotic state and not allowed to change the channel and are from that point forward forced to watch and listen.

Now, how about a speech about how you are the tolerant one and Christians aren't.
--
You could get hit by the boom and die. You could fall overboard and die. You could capsize and die. Or, you could stay home and fall off the couch and die.

See 15 replies to this post

r81984
Thread is
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL

Why do they worry???

Why do they worry, unless they know they are lying assholes who noone would ever pay to watch if they had a choice.

IHateGoogle

@mi.charter

Re: Why do they worry???

I hate to say it but that's not true. There is already a pay satellite service called Sky Angel that some people actually subscribe to, just so they can tune in the pulpit pounders day and night.

What gets me is that most of these guys have the same theme - "send me your money and God will bless you", as if God is some sort of cosmic slot machine where you put a quarter in and always get $10 out, IF you are patient enough to keep playing. Then when someone in their "flock" actually has some sort of income boost - even if it's just a big tax refund check (which is essentially a refund of their own hard-earned money from the government), these guys crow about it as if God personally sent an angel to deliver it on a golden platter.

To me, televangelists are the most likely the reincarnation of the old snake-oil salesmen and carnival hucksters. They have discovered that it's a lot easier to use the Bible to deceive the masses than any other method. All they have to say is that if you don't believe every word they say you are opposing God (and the ground may open up and swallow you!) and the fearful followers shut up and keep sending donations. If their channels were only available to those willing to pay for them, it would limit their ability to con new people into following them, and people might actually have to go to their local places of worship if they really feel the need to follow a religion. Of course now "local" worship is often in one of those big megachurches that preach the same unBiblical crap as the televangelists. Jesus WARNED his followers about the wolves in sheep's clothing, and about the difference between a true shepherd and a hireling, but too many people today just don't seem to be able to make that distinction, and those are who the televangelists prey on.

What gets me is how so many of these guys go into a state of degraded mental health right on TV in front of everyone and yet people just keep sending them money. I understand the concepts of Christian forgiveness and overlooking the faults of others, but these guys are dangerous and they are really causing suffering for many people, both by draining their finances (you'd be amazed at how many truly poor people send these guys money) and by preaching hate and general nuttiness that cannot be supported by any reasonable reading of the Bible. Of course, these guys are masters at twisting unrelated verses together to make them say what they want them to say, and then we could get into the whole issue of whether the Bible is really inerrant, as these guys believe (it has always seems strange to me that protestants berate the catholics for believing in papal infallibility, yet they simply substitute biblical inerrancy, so their "pope" is in effect a collection of ancient writings, but I won't say more about that since this really isn't the place for it).

I used to be a member of BroadbandReports.com. But, since going to "BroadbandReports.com" now redirects me to something called "DSLreports.com", I refuse to log in. I don't have DSL and don't want DSL, and will not register nor log into DSLreports. Please bring back BroadbandReports!

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ

Discussed by Howard Stern

A very funny discussion about this on Howard this morning.

These channels are going to go out of business very quickly.

Are you going to pay for the church channels? QVC? HSN? TV Guide? Lifetime?

See 8 replies to this post

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

Freedom of speech vs Right to be heard

said by the article :

"We don't just want to preach to the choir; we want to reach the unchurched," said Paul Crouch Jr. of Trinity Broadcast Network in Santa Ana. "The bottom line is that we want to be everywhere on cable."
I'm not at all interested in their programming. I can't hit the "change channel" button fast enough if their stuff comes on. So why would they want to force me to watch their shows? They might have a right to broadcast their religious opinions, but I have a right to not listen.

If I don't have a la carte cable, then I'll simply skip past their programming. Or, if nothing else is on, I'll (*gasp!*) turn off the TV. Maybe I'll surf the Net, maybe I'll read a book, maybe I'll play with my son or talk with my wife. All are more attractive options to me than listening to some televangelist preach.

said by the article :

But Winters contends that religious broadcasters oppose more cable choice because they "are very fearful of losing any market share."
Ah, there it is. It's all about the eyeballs. Just like a spammer wants to keep my e-mail address on his list because he thinks saying that he reaches 100 million e-mail addresses is more impressive than saying he reaches 10,000 interested e-mail addresses. The telemarketers would like to claim that they could be viewed by 100 million people rather than say that they have an actual following of 10,000 people.
--
-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
·HughesNet Satellit..

Least Commercial

This is what they are worried about. Tho loss is commercial revenue. If I had a choice in my channels I would definitely pick channels with no commercial time other than maybe the 2-hr commercial interval, or very little commercials. When commercials come on I promptly switch the channel, and that's what I've taught the kids to do.

If they want to do something right then they need to create the "Commercial Channels" All commercials All the time. The Same with "The religious Channel" All-Religions all the time. Make those part of a separate package so they do not taint and unilaterally destroy the value of other packages with channels such as CourtTV, Playboy Channel, Spice, MTV, BET, Discovery, Disney, You know the channels really worth watching.
--
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12

Re: Least Commercial

said by ctceo See Profile :

If they want to do something right then they need to create the "Commercial Channels" All commercials All the time.
Great Idea! We should do that with radio to!
Hold me close as our economy as we know it crumbles into a third world country!
Such a visionary.
dibbb

join:2003-09-19
·Time Warner VOIP

Re: Least Commercial

said by CableTool See Profile :

said by ctceo See Profile :

If they want to do something right then they need to create the "Commercial Channels" All commercials All the time.
Great Idea! We should do that with radio to!
Hold me close as our economy as we know it crumbles into a third world country!
Such a visionary.
There already are a few commercial channels, they're called CBS, NBC, and ABC. You can watch sitcoms in-between the commercials. Pretty cool idea!

ssj4android
Redefining Reality

join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI

Nobody cares about televangelists

Not even Christians really. They just ask for money and push the button on the clap machine. Yuck.

Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA

Re: Nobody cares about televangelists

said by ssj4android See Profile :

Not even Christians really. They just ask for money and push the button on the clap machine. Yuck.
Televangelists serve a very small community, those who can't go to church and feel guilty about it, and those who don't want to go to church but feel guilty about it. I don't know of anyone else who would watch them. The first group shouldn't feel guilty and the second should be going to real church if it bothers them so rather than pretending that watching (insert name of Televangelist here) gives them 1000 God credits.

Quite frankly if they are that concerned they could offer their channels for free to the cable and satellite co's to be in the block of "free" channels (much like HSN and QVC will).
--
HOLY CRAP, LIONS!
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Nobody cares about televangelists

said by Combat Chuck See Profile :

Televangelists serve a very small community, those who can't go to church and feel guilty about it, and those who don't want to go to church but feel guilty about it.
So is Jesus supposed to fly out of your set and bless you or something? I thought going to church was part-&-part of the package.

I was not aware that the path towards salvation was in the boob tube.

Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA

Re: Nobody cares about televangelists

said by AquaBlaze See Profile :

said by Combat Chuck See Profile :

Televangelists serve a very small community, those who can't go to church and feel guilty about it, and those who don't want to go to church but feel guilty about it.
So is Jesus supposed to fly out of your set and bless you or something? I thought going to church was part-&-part of the package.

I was not aware that the path towards salvation was in the boob tube.
Holy misquote batman. My whole point was no one is watching televangelists except for those who feel guilty about not going to Church and use it as a poor substitute; kinda like feeling guilty about ordering a Big Mac and ordering a Diet Coke instead of just not ordering the Big Mac in the first place.
--
HOLY CRAP, LIONS!
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Nobody cares about televangelists

said by Combat Chuck See Profile :

My whole point was no one is watching televangelists except for those who feel guilty about not going to Church and use it as a poor substitute; kinda like feeling guilty about ordering a Big Mac and ordering a Diet Coke instead of just not ordering the Big Mac in the first place.
Kinda a flaky customer base then, if ya ask me, lol. I thought church was pretty clear in that you gotta show up; viewing webcasts, TV, or other subsititutions aren't replacements for the real thing. Well, that is unless the church has changed lately...when I go, they're pretty adamant that your butt had better be in the chair.

RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA

Wow

Let me get this straight. These Je$u$ freaks don't want people like me to have the CHOICE of not having their channels available on my television? They want to reach the "unchurched?" This is laughable. These mega-Jesus organizations are businesses, plain and simple. They are out to make money, and their comments only prove it.

People who donate money to these huge religious corporations are idiots.
--
One nation, under Zod!
radarman

join:2005-06-01
Odenton, MD

Re: Wow

Way to generalize there, fella. I guess all the atheists are just out to give Christians a hard time too.

Sure, there are some a$$hat$ out there that exist solely to make money for themselves, but they are not the majority. Most people recognize them for what they are, though admittedly not all. Most Christians despise these clowns as much as you do.

Most ministries, though, are really trying to do exactly what they say they are. I have personally been involved in a "large" TV ministry that was serious about their message, and they went well above and beyond the accepted accounting practices - to the point where each church member received a yearly report detailing the finances of the church. Sure, they could have lied in the report, but they didn't HAVE to print it in the first place.

As for the ala-carte - the idea is that most people who don't attend church won't order a religious channel. As it is, a lot of people "happen" on a religious channel accidentally, and are exposed to the message. Some choose to listen, most probably keep flipping. It's your remote, it's your choice. However, it isn't just Christians that are bothered by the idea of ala-carte.

Even if you disagree with the televangelists, I think you will find ala-carte to not be the great paradise of TV viewing you think it will. I suspect strongly you will find your cable bill going up, not down - and your choices shrinking, not expanding. Most channels barely break even, and a lot of channels that are worthwhile depend on subsidies from larger channels.

Newer channels, for example, often don't start making money for 4 or 5 years. Look at Sci-Fi for example. It's been around for quite a while, but only recently started really becoming a force on Cable and Sat. For several years, it was in danger of getting cut - because it was felt that the "Trekkie" crowd was too small. Now that they have survived the lean times, they are actually producing sci-fi movies and shows. In an ala-carte world, they would have never gotten off of the ground.

Basically, in your world of "choice", our choices would shrink to the current three networks, ESPN, MTV, VH1 (which itself was a derivative) and maybe some of the bigger niche markets, like HGTV and SCI-FI. There would be few new channels created, because they couldn't last long enough to be discovered. The few channels that DO get created will be derivatives, and suck just as bad as the originals. Imagine VH2, VH3, ... VHn.

Bundling of channels promotes creativity, by subsidizing fresh content with revenue from popular channels. Yes, ESPN and MTV helped to create VH1, BET, SCI-FI, TLC, HGTV, and a whole myriad of specialty channels.

Of course, I suppose you could go with the HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax angle. Those are virtually ala-carte now, in that you can choose to pay for each separately in most markets. They have fresh content, and produce a lot of original movies - and guess what, they jack your bill up by about $20 per channel. That, my friend, is the future of ala-carte.

But hey, I'm a Je$u$ freak, so what do I know?

RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA

Re: Wow

said by radarman See Profile :

Way to generalize there, fella. I guess all the atheists are just out to give Christians a hard time too.
Yep, that's it. The atheists are the ones trying to force their message onto everyone. So how many atheist channels are there again?

said by radarman See Profile :

Sure, there are some a$$hat$ out there that exist solely to make money for themselves, but they are not the majority. Most people recognize them for what they are, though admittedly not all. Most Christians despise these clowns as much as you do.
I wouldn't say that most Christians despise them. The general population, both Christians and non-Christians, are apathetic towards them, just like they are towards everything else. If you don't believe me, stop people randomly on the streets and ask them some very basic questions about their own religions, or even about the politicians that they vote for (if they bother to vote, that is!). People are ignorant. That's why people like Benny Hinn and Pat Robertson have audiences and steady flows of money coming in.

said by radarman See Profile :

Most ministries, though, are really trying to do exactly what they say they are. I have personally been involved in a "large" TV ministry that was serious about their message, and they went well above and beyond the accepted accounting practices - to the point where each church member received a yearly report detailing the finances of the church. Sure, they could have lied in the report, but they didn't HAVE to print it in the first place.
All the people I see pushing Jesus on TV wear 4-figure suits/dresses, drive expensive cars and live in mansions. If I were a Christian, I would take Jesus' own advice and not look to loud-mouthed rich people to tell me how I ought to live my life.

As I said, mega-churches are out to make money. I don't doubt for a second that they do a lot of good for people, but their ultimate priorities have always been to continue making money. How do they do this? They prey on those who are easily influenced and looking for something positive in their lives. The message of Jesus gives them that. They could do this on their own if they wanted to, but the mega-churches are offering them a service. It's a business. To label it as something else would be dishonest.

said by radarman See Profile :

As for the ala-carte - the idea is that most people who don't attend church won't order a religious channel. As it is, a lot of people "happen" on a religious channel accidentally, and are exposed to the message. Some choose to listen, most probably keep flipping. It's your remote, it's your choice. However, it isn't just Christians that are bothered by the idea of ala-carte.
I wonder, would you apply this same logic to all the other channels? Aren't the folks over at MTV trying to get their message out? How about the people at Bravo who have shows featuring homosexuals in a positive way? What about the people who promote sports? All these organizations want you to stop and watch their programming too! Why should any non-Christian channel be treated any differently than a Christian one? Whether it's TBN and PAX, or MTV and Bravo, the motives are the same. It's all about money. The more people you get to watch, the more money you get in the end.

said by radarman See Profile :

Even if you disagree with the televangelists, I think you will find ala-carte to not be the great paradise of TV viewing you think it will. I suspect strongly you will find your cable bill going up, not down - and your choices shrinking, not expanding. Most channels barely break even, and a lot of channels that are worthwhile depend on subsidies from larger channels.

Newer channels, for example, often don't start making money for 4 or 5 years. Look at Sci-Fi for example. It's been around for quite a while, but only recently started really becoming a force on Cable and Sat. For several years, it was in danger of getting cut - because it was felt that the "Trekkie" crowd was too small. Now that they have survived the lean times, they are actually producing sci-fi movies and shows. In an ala-carte world, they would have never gotten off of the ground.
I have not really made a strong opinion on a la carte programming. I understand that there are pros and cons on both sides. My original post was to comment only on the televangelists' reasons for opposing a la carte. Basically, they feel that their me$$age is holier than all the other messages on TV and deserve to be on everyone's channel line-up, simply because they are so important. I would respect their opinion if I wasn't absolutely certain that they would censor TV if they had the chance. You can't have it both ways. If you want your channel on everyone's TV sets, then support that same right for all the other channels, including the ones you don't necessarily like.

said by radarman See Profile :

Basically, in your world of "choice", our choices would shrink to the current three networks, ESPN, MTV, VH1 (which itself was a derivative) and maybe some of the bigger niche markets, like HGTV and SCI-FI. There would be few new channels created, because they couldn't last long enough to be discovered. The few channels that DO get created will be derivatives, and suck just as bad as the originals. Imagine VH2, VH3, ... VHn.

Bundling of channels promotes creativity, by subsidizing fresh content with revenue from popular channels. Yes, ESPN and MTV helped to create VH1, BET, SCI-FI, TLC, HGTV, and a whole myriad of specialty channels.
Again, I never said I was in favor of a la carte. You said I was. Although, I fail to see why popular channels should be subsidizing unpopular channels? This sounds a lot like socialism to me. Don't the uppity Christians hate this type of wealth redistribution?

said by radarman See Profile :

Of course, I suppose you could go with the HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax angle. Those are virtually ala-carte now, in that you can choose to pay for each separately in most markets. They have fresh content, and produce a lot of original movies - and guess what, they jack your bill up by about $20 per channel. That, my friend, is the future of ala-carte.
If channels ended up costing us $20 each, the market would need to adjust to the massive number of people cancelling cable altogether. To suggest this is a scare tactic.

People make a very valid point. Why should they have to pay for programming that THEY DON'T WANT? Your argument against them seems to be, "It's for your own good!" And the televangelists' message seems to be, "We want you to stumble across our channels so you can send us money and feel better about yourself."

said by radarman See Profile :

But hey, I'm a Je$u$ freak, so what do I know?
True.
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Taranis

join:2001-12-06
Mount Vernon, WA

Televangelists can go screw themselves. They are serious about getting their message out, because that's what makes them money. And I guarantee they're much more interested in making money than saving souls.

I grew up on this crap from my grandmother watching TBN nearly 24/7. My father also had his favorites, until he started noticing what they're really about...

I just saw Jerry Falwell on the news last night. Looks like he's been eating well, unlike many in his audience. A little research would show he easily makes over six figures. Noooo... he's not making a profit! He's a man of God, right?

And what about Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and Oral Roberts? Con artists hiding behind the Bible. Every damn one of 'em are and they should be locked up for extortion. Let's see how enthusiastic they are about preaching the Gospel when they're not making any money doing it.

They take money indiscriminately, from the elderly and poor who can't afford to give anything as it is, to feed their need for expensive suits, luxury cars, outrageous mansions, commercial sponsors, and primetime spots.

Ever seen the guy with Crystal Cathedral? That cost, what, several million dollars? Yeah, I'm sure THAT televangelist paid the ENTIRE cost himself, without any donations from his audience. I wonder how many kids went without dinner a few times to finance that little project...

And now televangelists are worried about losing their audience. Boo-friggin'-hoo. Audience = Money, and Green is all they HAVE and WILL EVER care about.

If you believe otherwise, you are a fool.
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Wow

said by Taranis See Profile :

And what about Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and Oral Roberts? Con artists hiding behind the Bible.
Eh, they're just doing what Scientology does...but they're much better at not making it seem so blatantly like a scam.

IHate Google

@mi.charter

Re: Wow

Actually, I would not say "they're much better at not making it seem so blatantly like a scam", I'd be more inclined to say they are better at using fear and threats to cause people to push aside their normal mental reasoning powers. If you fear that even thinking bad thoughts about the church/the clergy is enough to send to you a mythical place called "hell" (mythical in the sense that it does not exist in the manner portrayed by most traditional churches, according to the Bible itself) then you are much more inclined to do what the church tells you to do (which almost always includes giving them your money!) and believe what they want you to believe (say a word against the preacher and you have a one-way ticket to "hell"). It is really mind control that has been developed and refined over the centuries, and its primary purpose has been to keep people under control (which is why most governments tolerate, and sometimes even encourage some form of religion) and to provide a steady, reliable, and usually generous income for the clergy.

This is not to say that there are no religious groups doing "good works" out there, but people need to understand that the relative goodness of their works says absolutely nothing about the truthfulness of their preaching, or even their overall morality. If they take in ten million dollars to feed the hungry and skim off five million for "administrative expenses" and to build new buildings, etc., they are still doing "good works" but are they doing them in a morally responsible manner? And if, in order to receive food and clothing and other assistance, the poor people are required to sit through religious indoctrination sessions or else they get nothing, is that really unconditional love? And if that church teaches hate for certain groups of people, in open defiance of what Jesus taught, then all their good works means nothing. The biggest problem today is that churchgoing people either don't know how to discern the "wolves" from the "shepherds", or if they do know how, they are too fearful to say anything, particularly when all the "sheep" around them are cozying up to the wolf and saying nothing but good things about him and trying to gain his favor.

I used to be a member of BroadbandReports.com. But, since going to "BroadbandReports.com" now redirects me to something called "DSLreports.com", I refuse to log in. I don't have DSL and don't want DSL, and will not register nor log into DSLreports. Please bring back BroadbandReports!
haplo2112

join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA

I want a la carte in theory to save Money..

...however I have no delusions that such a plan will ever work.

When I think "a la carte" for cable channels I have the thought of say .25-.99 a month for per channel for the channels I want beyond the basic cable config (basic being local channels for the most part "reception service" as my wife calls it)...

That I know would save me a ton of cash because we only really watch a few other channels on any regular basis.

Hell I'd be willing to go to some sort of pay per view per day arrangement where if I watch a channel for say more than 20 Minutes I get charged .10 for the channel for the day. We would still make out in the end.

However the reality is that the Cable company will never allow anything like "a la carte" to actually save anyone money.

tsu9

join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL

Unchurched?

The "unchurched" aren't going to be tuning into BibleTV anyhow. What's the fuss?

Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:

Re: Unchurched?

I'm assuming they think people may flip through the channels and come across their's and keep watching it and be converted.

I don't think that's going to happen, but probably what they're thinking.
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Unchurched?

said by Bill See Profile :

I'm assuming they think people may flip through the channels and come across their's and keep watching it and be converted.
Meh, they'd have better luck at crossing their message within popular shows. Personally, I'd like to see Jesus on Survivor or the Apprentice.

HR6JFU

@adelphia.net

Re: thread

Many of the least watched channels must pay the cable companies if they want their stuff carried. They pay as a function of the number of subscribers. If alacarte becomes the new format, these guys will have to find some other way to get their foot in the door. Maybe the religious channels are carried free as a sop to "balanced programming" or something, but the "Quiz Show Channel" and other seldom watched stuff would surely die out.

EGeezer
Summertime -
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
·Callcentric
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T CallVantage

RE: saving money

Somehow I suspect that no matter how it goes, the customer will pay more.

I still have a TV antenna, rotor and signal amp. I may just put that back in service. With the exception of local news, my news comes from RSS feeds anyway. I have lots more stuff to do than watch what they foist on the public. There is life outside the video/music media providers' proposed world.
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LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast

Televangelists, shopping shows should pay to be on

All the religious channels, shopping channels, and other ilk should be paying the cable companies to carry them. Customers shouldn't pay a nickel for these channels. Maybe that is the way it works. Maybe the cable companies are getting paid to carry these channels and that is why there are so many of them. And as long as it isn't costing me money, I don't care if they are there or not.
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Televangelists, shopping shows should pay to b

said by LiamJunket See Profile :

All the religious channels, shopping channels, and other ilk should be paying the cable companies to carry them. Maybe that is the way it works.
I don't know about the religious channels, but the shopping channels already pay the cable companies to be carried.
In an a la carte scenario, you would probably receive a discount for subscribing to them (in other words, they would quickly become the most subscribed channels in America )

From what I have seen, religious channels have been going the right of buying broadcast stations and applying for must-carry status (they have to be carried on the basic tier for free).
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LoungeLizard2

join:2003-11-21
Vallejo, CA

Ghost Stories

With a La Carte, they can go tell their ghost stories to someone who believes them (and is willing to pay to hear them).

gogeta6

join:2002-06-20
San Diego, CA
clubs:

technical question

Maybe it will make bundles of channels cheaper, but I doubt it.

Does anyone know how this would be done. I know like with HBO and stuff they can direct through a box what channels you get. Would they need to force everyone to digital or something to implement an a la cart system, or just stick with the old system?
haertig

join:2000-12-31
Broomfield, CO

Ala Carte vs. Packages

I don't really care - ala carte or packages. What I want is the most value for my money. Which means the channels I want for the cheapest total price. If that means I have to take 50 extra useless channels with the few I want, fine. So long as I can ignore the garbage. So long as I can set up favorites lists that filter out the useless. So long as the total price does not exceed what I'm willing to pay for the few I want.

Now if service providers decide to do away with direct channel access and replace it with "channel up, channel down" only (with a mandatory 10 second pause on each channel) ... THEN I'd get upset! Not upset really. I'd just become an ex-customer and do other more worthwhile things with my time.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Newtown, PA

Hypocrite TV... st ay tuned

Whatever happened to Separation of Church and State?

Since when can content providers dictate the FCC, especially religious zealots bent on their own fiscal preservation?
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Hypocrite TV... st ay tuned

said by cableties See Profile :

Whatever happened to Separation of Church and State?
I wasn't aware that they were ever fully seperate.

said by cableties See Profile :

Since when can content providers dictate the FCC, especially religious zealots bent on their own fiscal preservation?
Ever since pastors have been claiming the right on what medical procedures can and cannot be done? Religious represenatives pushing forth their agenda on federal bodies is nothing new to American society.
Hardcore
The Cow Says
Premium
join:2002-08-23
Albany, GA
·Mediacom

I appreciate being called a zealot.

I have not seen an advertisement-driven religious network. They're non-profit.

Why are you all so worried about religion on television? The evangelists want to spread the message of Christ. Is that such a bad thing? They're not out to make a buck anymore - the televangelists of the late eighties and early nineties are over...with the exception of Benny somethingorother...the one who claims instant healing.

If you don't like religion, don't watch. I'll be more than happy to type up messages for you.
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AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Hypocrite TV... st ay tuned

said by Hardcore See Profile :

The evangelists want to spread the message of Christ.
Hey, that's fine and dandy. What I don't like is the local push to make it a "must-carry" on the basic cable packages. Rasing my rates in order to bring me your propaganda? Thanks, but I'd rather just have a way out of it altogether. Have them offer it as an extra pay package so that those that want it, can have it...but all it serves now is to further pad out the cable co.'s base rate inflations.

And non-profit? Please. The company itself doesn't make a profit...but I'm sure the loons on there certainly get a salary. Trust me, there is a marketing potential for any viewership, nomater what diety they believe in. I'm certain companies would pay hansomely (well, in terms of cost-per-viewing) to have a direct-targeting to the core audience that these channels target.
Taranis

join:2001-12-06
Mount Vernon, WA


2 edits
You are a fool, and as proof you are a fool, read the quote below from Ministry Watch regarding TBN, the 24x7 religious channel:

"TBN presently has cash, short term investments and long term investments of about $280 million. This huge cash stockpile should be spent on their charitable purpose and not built ever higher each year. Yet, TBN continues to ask donors for more money without disclosing how much they already have.

•The salaries for TBN founders Paul and Jan Crouch were $403,700 and $361,000 respectively for 2002 (the last year such numbers are available). This total of $764,700 is considerably higher than theaverage for executive pay for nonprofits.

•The profits earned by TBN over the past five years amount to $285 million, which raises questions about the claims that Paul and Jan Crouch make regarding the need for additional ministry funding.The profits TBN reports annually are actually larger than the total yearly financial needs of most ministries.

• TBN is financially well off compared to other ministries but spends shockingly little on its charitable programs. TBN’s 2002 program expenses are extremely low at 46%. Additionally, TBN's 2002 savings rate is high at about 36% compared to Wall Watchers' ministry database average of around zero.

•TBN refuses to release consolidated audited financial statements making it impossible to fully and accurately analyze the financial operations of TBN on behalf of donors.

•Questions regarding an extravagant lifestyle for the couple remain unanswered."


Looks like quite a profit they make for a non-profit organization, don't you think?

Now with them raking in that much cash, where do you think the ministries who are shown on that channel get it from? Are you really that blindly ignorant?

If you want to give away your money or actually help people in need, there are much better ways to do it without making these bastards rich. As for them being ala-carte, I'm all for anything that makes the number of people who view them drop.

Mind you, I have absolutely no problem with spreading the Good Word, however using the bible as a means to get wealthy while preying on the depressed and downtrodden is fundamentally immoral.
AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: Hypocrite TV... st ay tuned

said by Taranis See Profile :

Looks like quite a profit they make for a non-profit organization, don't you think?
A non-profit organization simply has to not turn over a profit...which means their money can go elsewhere, including salaries as you described. The organization itself may not hold any cash assets, but you can bet your ass the people working the sets and delivering the shows aren't there outta the goodness of their heart.

GilbertMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Gilbert, AZ

hmm

I love when the cable companies say, when asked about a la carte channels, that it would raise prices that would need to be passed on to the consumers.

Like they aren't already doing this every year anyway.
Forums » Televangelists Against a La Cartepage: 1 · 2


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